Rather good, in summary - speaking from the UK the US is being remarkably more grown up than we feared.

And may I add a little understated, British "Choo Choo!"

Probably appropriate - you Yanks do loud so much better than we do somehow...  

Traditional over here, but apologies to those South of the Mason-Dixon line who would rather we didn't  

I was nervously buying through the 600s, hoping none of those guys were going to say anything odd... but it was peachy from the word go.

Easy money....

Hmmm... I thought we were done

"Anonymity is..... catastrophe"

Hope this guy waves our flag...

Asian beauty behind him is much more watchable....

Was that Murck guy the best Bitcoin can muster - he is such a nerdy bore....

Allaire - good stuff!

+1

China went over 500 briefly 20 mins back

EDIT: 5000

I think he is taking on their fears / objections and knocking them down - it's classic selling and he is helping on balance.  Plus he mentioned Bitcoin so many times it spiked the price nicely....

Nah - gambling lobby pays too much into DC coffers - off limits!

Satoshi knows - she smiled!

Just been watching fiatleaks money flow - showing no bitcoins into CNY - but lots into USD...

Just wondering are the Chinese somehow buying in USD and selling in CNY?

http://fiatleak.com/

Is it just no data?  Anyone tell me what's up - maybe take a look?

EDIT: I mean CNY into BTC - late evening here!

1000 tonight...?   Look at the money coming in - wow!

Gox 900!

Fiatleak shows NO CNY, but EUR and USD a hell of a lot - looks odd, very odd....

It ain't slowing down - people are selling into it, but I can't see the incoming slowing - bumpy ride in progress, but hold tight!

Hold your nerve - buyers a plenty!

Popping 800 is no big deal anymore, watching it climb back up is just relaxing after all the fun.

When the Senate news thinks in the news buzz will bring many more in.

Couldn't manage to grab coins in the low 600s, but got some in the upper....   Just a few - but dip increased my stash - happy day.

Now wait for $1000

A lot of us might want to buy - but getting money in to take advantage of this is not easy...  It's the money IN that is playing - I have bought all I can, no goxbux left (natch) and can't get money into stamp or gox for days....

Frustrating to leave whales and bears to play without running at them with a sharp, pointy pile of cash...

BBC pretty BTC positive - this from 15 mins ago on BBC online:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24986264

Sorry - Google said '15 mins ago'

I stand corrected...

I can't get any money in to buy - spent all gox bux, nothing left in stamp - and it just takes too long to get funds in.  Used to use transferwise to get money into Bitstamp - but that is now impossible, I have no way of getting funds in within a reasonable time frame (even if the damn exchange was functioning!)

We can be bullish (I am) but if noobs and even people like me can't buy.....  Where does the cash come from to push the price up in the next 3-5 days?

Agree when the new money floods in it's gonna fly, but meantime it's frustrating to be unable to buy more

I am watching, powerless to join the Spartans who have held firm and join the fight to take on the bears....  *

*Mixed metaphor, but you get me.

Some things are worth what is perceived as their potential.

Otherwise - why did the Twitter float raise so much.  Whatever you think of Twitter it is only an 'app' and it has NEVER made any money.

Bitcoin is a potential world currency - it is way more important than an 'app'.

Do they have US Senate hearings about Twitter?

All price guesses are beyond easy prediction, however BTC is the market leader in the potential future of a new paradigm in the world of currency.  Yes - it is massive win, or potential fail - but is not worthless.

Potential has a price, or why would anyone bet on sport, shares or anything with no truly solid tangible value?

I don't think Bitcoin is going away, it is potentially truly massive in what it can do to in terms of changing the game of the entire world's money and means of exchange.

It may not be the only decentralised digital currency - not even the best.

But it may well be the first that makes a difference....

I proposed this back in June (If I may quote a flippant post I made back then):

    
BTC Utilty "The Hooker Point"
July 06, 2013, 11:07:42 AM
   
Reply with quote Edit message Delete message  #1
I just posted this on a topic elsewhere, but I wanted to give it a thread of its own as it is about BTC price and utility which are fundamental concerns to us all:

Quote from: tokeweed on July 06, 2013, 09:26:13 AM
  i cant even get a hooker for btc.

This is one of the most insightful comments I have seen on this forum for some time.

As someone interested in economics, I think the establishment of a measure for the adoption level of a digital currency would be useful, and I think 'The Hooker Point' is perfect for it.

If we take an average city of (say) 100,000 inhabitants we can deem it to have reached this point when it is possible within the city's limits to find a locally available defined sexual service directly from a provider (without a 3rd party exchange involved) with a given currency in a (controlled) 24 hour period.

So a country can be defined by how many Hooker Point cities it has, or what proportion of its qualifying cities have reached the Hooker Point (for BTC).

Comparisons can be made over time and against other countries.

Since currencies go back to pre-literate times and prostitution is the oldest profession, it is a measure likely to remain current for the foreseeable future.


Further comment on price and utilty:
1. Market prices fall when more people want to sell than buy, and prices rise for the opposite reason.

2. People's choice as to whether they wish to be a buyer or seller is affected by their needs (entering or leaving a market due to the need to buy or sell what the market trades) or for reasons of sentiment (optimism or pessimism about the market price).

3. Although economics supposedly deals in rational situations in the market place, it is a fact that markets and sentiments are not necessarily rational.  A herd instinct, or copying instinct means that people often buy because people are buying - or sell because people are selling.

4. At present BTC has little practical utility (see 'Hooker Point' above).   Therefore, the market for it is much more heavily influenced by sentiment than other markets.  Since most people do not need to pay their rent or buy food with it, its value is almost entirely based on sentiment.

The only conclusion a rational person can reach in the light of the above is that any price predictions for BTC are very likely to be completely and utterly useless.

It was more about Utility and judging value and adoption around the world - it was also tongue in cheek - but your post reminded me of the Hooker Point theory....

Bull..? Bear...?

Both can't be right.

I am pretty much all in coin - don't like Gox Bux and I have a couple of coin's worth of fiat in Stamp.

But I have bought on the way down and can't get money in fast - like many I suspect.

So I can basically only ride the storm and HOLD.

I have orders at Stamp for the rest of my fiat down to upper 400s - but I don't want to be left in fiat when new cash comes in....   The bears have another 96 hours or so, MAX.    I want to be all in BTC when the noob cavalry with the investor artillery comes riding over the hill.

Bear market will be done soon, then the medium / long bet MUST be UP if the exchanges remain (reasonably) reliable.

How do you get currency out (since you are in an arb opportunity)?

It's only a thousand bucks just in case I need to sleep!

Mostly on Stamp and as usual on gox I am all coin....  it's a contradictory bet, I know - but til morning, it stays - it's annoying not be able to buy more if the opportunity arises nice and cheap.   The bears aren't done quite yet.

But I can see they will be before too long - bulls had a good run, but they will get their breath back soon, with a fresh army to back 'em.

A little early for a 'Choo Choo' - but I look forward to the return of amusing train picks - if not rockets just yet

Anyone here know if Coinfloor will open up the London GBP exchange - was suppose to be 5th Nov, but I think software 'fireworks' screwed it up...

Currently re-evaluating software - but no news just now.

Be good to see a proper London Exchange, will help bring a lot of GBP into the market.

Anyone know any news?

Yep - shambolic - but it's so much hassle trading from GBP into BTC and back, surely London must catch up - and it's got easier 'laissez faire" regs than US....

Have you / has anyone used velaexchange?

I would stay up a little if I were you....

I have lovely bull avatar I have been trying to upload for two days...

But I can't - forum disabled new avatars.

Choo choo...!

HOLD!!!  800 is not profit time, it's too early.

Wait, people, wait and watch.

The new money is coming in and they know about as much as we do, so they won't cash out yet - they will buy on the rise in case they miss out.

They have been hovering - now emotion takes over, with 30 million bux behind it.

Shaky, maybe - but the trend and news is too positive (sentiment wise) so much news will feed through in to price in the medium term (which in Bitcoin terms is weeks) you can play the ups and downs, but it's only going up.

If we hit 900 frothily, we will hit 1000 nonchanatly, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow - but soon.

Don't get me wrong - I just sold a couple myself, it's a fucking yo yo, but the steps are up - buy back in the upper sevens aand then sit tight til the 900s...!

Stamp down...?  Can't log in... 

I don't think anyone seriously thinks it is going mainstream yet - it's the fact it might be a lot bigger than it is.

Sentiment, old chap - sentiment....

Just sprayed coffee all over the keyboard laughing....

Hilarious, wish I had that solution in my problem solving box!

We are a shade short of the magical 900....

Where has all our irrational exuberance gone - everyone asleep?

I haven't seen a choo choo for ages.

No market prediction comment, just a mood one, are we blasé now...?

You keep tulips, by all means - however, I am not much of a gardener, I will stick with BTC

Will do - thoroughly tired of the erratic exchange access - it's a 24 hour volatile market and have been for a long time, surely right now they ought to be able to cope.

Hehe... Tulips fight? Well, Gox is down, I'm bored - c'mon you guys go for it

Mt Gox website says:

"Reliable

We're always on. Buy and sell Bitcoin 24/7/365 with the world's most sophisticated trading platform. "

We nearly had both Stamp and Gox down simultaneously - hmmm....

I am getting '502 Bad gateway'  

Have been for a few minutes - Stamp is on, though (am in UK, btw)

Clark Moody says Gox down 8 bux - red candles showing - but no trades moving - anyone seen this?

Bitcoinwisdom (usually more reliable) showing 826.

But trades list shows orders stuck at an 840 / 842 spread - I guess that was when it froze...

But if so, how come it moves down?

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd

Am not really excited - but Stamp is pulling back and I suspect people are selling there just in case.

Not great for market confidence, so it is understandable.

Cheap coins for the brave?

Gox back on, it dropped when Gox was down, then went up when it reappeared...

I was saying Stamp went down when Gox was off , then (Stamp) bounced up when Gox came back on.

Maybe the little guy who pedals the dynamo connected bike that powers things at Gox had to take a tea break?

No worries - but if Gox goes down, any nerves and Stamp drops - fair enough.  Sell on a Gox 502 at Stamp, then buy back the second Gox goes back on.

I made big bucks on it, nearly 12 dollars!

Momentum on Gox... climbing now....

I must admit I agree - with all the new money - it seems very shaky and lacking in true confidence, even to break over 850 convincingly...

Spread on Gox is as low as 0.0001...

I am nodding off here!

Him and probably all the big money have actually probably gone out to enjoy themselves, leaving us to watch the occasional whisps of tumbleweed sales bore us to death....  It's Saturday night and there is no fighting - can us minnows not do anything unless the big money decides?

Yeah - just took a look - 40 times the cash coming in from CNY as opposed to USD....

Was that "...or something else.." done in a Vincent Price sort of voice...?

Plenty of fuel, but no matches to light the touchpaper, mate.

Pretty boring - wish I have gone out!

He is just pointing out, quite reasonably it has more 'room' to go down than up and the news was priced in before the new money came in.  I think he is still a long term bull, but is saying there is no real support for prices above a few weeks ago with money difficult to get in to buy and new money being nervous.

It's still going to bounce around a lot before we go to the moon, even if you believe ultimately (as I do) we will.  That is all.

I think you're as right as anyone can be.   Hard to call, but rpietila won't mind either way - he (tends to) makes money whatever happens...

fairly strong buys on gox in one minute  - about half a million bux... good sign?

Yeah I realise that - just hoped it would lift the doom and gloom around here

Fiatleaks showing a ton of money going in from China...

China exchange jumped up  with 1000 BTC purchase at the same time as Gox with similar amount.

Big fish feeding...

I am not sure those big buys have produced a solid new level - they look like they were intended to start a new bull run, but it doens't look amazingly solid, support-wise.

Have put a little in fiat just in case it's a rpietila plot!

According to Fiatleaks - still twice as much cash coming in from CNY as the rest of the world's currencies combined...

And the BTCC seems just flat right now.

Last time, before it corrected, currency in dried up fast.

I am not saying it's a bull market (who can say) - but China does not look like pulling us down right now

He has a point - the diehard bulls are all in, waiting for $1000. Anyone speculating has both fiat and coins, and will play both sides.  New money needs to be very big to climb up the price wall in front.   The support is not under the BTC price it looks heavier at price points above.  

I think long term it's up - but it will be a bumpy ride and big speculators will do better than diehard bulls if they are clever (which, one has to assume, they are).

Is the fact it's the middle of the night there not a factor?

China close to dropping under 5K people - not good for us bulls...

Wow - some fierce bulls fighting back...

Bear trap snapped shut

The article and BTC got a pasting - I left this :


There are some remarkable bright and astute people who are watching and at the very least, taking an interest in Bitcoin.

At the US senate hearings concerning digital currencies last week, the US senate and various US security and crime departments refused to condemn it and were relatively positive about this being a possible future benefit to the world, offering new ways of storing wealth and transacting for goods and services.

It is not a Ponzi scheme and involves some of the finest technological minds on the planet working at making it better all the time.

Money itself is illusory and is printed by governments on a whim, so it stands up as arguably more solid than regular currencies as it has a finite supply and is a very secure and traceable (if not transaction reversible) form of value exchange.

It is impossible to send a £10 note over the internet, but you can send a bitcoin. Not a promise of one like with banking, but it actually transfers from one holder to another.

If you think that the internet will not have its own currency, ok - go ahead and don't even think about digital ways of value exchange, it does not take too much imagination to see it makes sense there should be ways that are better than the ones offered by banks we have.

If you do think this might evolve new systems more suited to our lives, with a way of cheaply transferring real value to each other in minutes, around the globe, into any currency system - with extremely low costs... well, why not stop, think and maybe research a little.

I did and I am an economist and yes, I do have Bitcoins - not too many, but a few - I personally think this is a game changing technological advance.

If Twitter can sell shares with no profit ever made, for billions of dollars - why dismiss a technology that is not merely 'an app' but a whole new exchange system?

Sneer if you wish, but it makes no sense not to be well informed before you comment.
 
I have made my mind up that this (or something like it) may well be the future of transactions and, yep - I am in.

Remember the first time someone explained e-mail to you?

Hah! Priceless

One thing rpietila said today:

"You know, we kind of decided that $900 is the cap for now".

'We decided...'?

Hmmm.... It's held so far.

Didn't last long..  Hah!

Where are the choo choos!??!!!!

It's all history now - hee hee!

That's better - about time we had a new ATH to choo choo for...!

Fiatleaks is showing over 4500 BTC an hour in money coming in from around the world in total (mostly USD and CNY).  

USD way above China, but not because CNY volume is unusually low...

Fun to watch:

http://fiatleak.com/

Waves of money coming in - Fiatleaks showing nearly 7000 BTC per hour - way high, something is coming.

This is not bearish news!

Fiat leaks slowing EVEN MORE money coming in 10,000 BTC an hour in money coming in.

It hit close on 7000 just before the 1000 mark and it's accelerating.

There will be no pulling back you, we will seriously overshoot 1000 IMO  

hah!

I am sure you're right - but momentum IN is huge, and a lot must be in Gox, so won't come out so easy in cash.  

The old guard can sell into this, sure - but I don't see how the momentum slows just now - not for a while.   1100 tonight looks easy now.

We shall see.

Right now... Choo choo MFs!

Never boring is it - I was going to take the night off and expect to check in to see 1100+

Oh well, let's ride it out and see where it bounces back - the bears have it... temporarily.

The cavalry!

914 was just TOO cheap - some smart money out there.

Enjoy your few minutes in the sun, bears...?

Probably not - but that looked like a bear failure to me....

I just voted in the 1000 poll - I think I might have that one right, at least

The mBTC idea for exchanges does have some sense if we want more widespread adoption.

If they are 'coins' but one costs a thousand bucks - people can hardly imagine buying a coffee with one.

I had a friend around a while back and watched the charts a bit then he wanted in but said $500 (hah!) seemed a lot of cash, then he called me a week later and asked if he should buy a few Litecoins as Bitcoin were so expensive.  I suggested he shouldn't (I was probably wrong, looking back), but the point remains; at a thousand bucks it sounds like something for gold investors not for 'people like me'.

So - slap me down - but promoting mBTC / Satoshis / whatever...  seems to have a bit of sense behind it, who is going to say what a coffee costs in terms of 0.00000xx BTC?

Anyone got serious thoughts?

Glad someone agrees - I am in now, but when I first got some BTC around 50 bucks - it did not feel like a huge risk - a 'punt' - if it dived to ten, well - I would survive.

We appear to have a 1000 dollar entry point for one 'coin'.

But at a dollar a pop, everyone might at least try things out.  Exchanges (and even us) might hate all the minnows coming in, but we are (psychologically) barring people from entry.

It looks like a big boys game at a grand.....

Worth pushing the mBTC as a unit.  

Or we are helping Litecoin etc.  Really!

Can we take down (or adjust) the poll please?

To the question:

"Question:    Will Bitcoin trade over 1000$ within a few weeks?"

Only 74% answer 'yes'...

Yep - it's out of date, I was joking - but why not set a new target we can hope for?

I like it 

I thought 'millibit' - but with one more syllable than bitcoin, it won't succeed as easily as 'embit' now I think about it.

This is the senior thread - if we find consensus and use it, we may have the honour of naming the mBTC for the world.

Embee / embit - best so far...

Any other nominations?  After all, it is necessary if we want the masses 'in'.

"I just spent a couple of mill on a coffee" ?

Has some connotations with larger amount

Yeah - seems logical - anyone else...  the chance to shape the name of the new basic denomination of BTC?

You run a coffe shop - how you gonna price a coffee in Bitcoin...

'That'll be two embits, mate'

Works for me - we can't have a string of zeros on the price list - it must happen, right?

This has flawless logic, but I still wonder about that coffee being 'two mills' and we probably need the 'bit' in there to keep it connected to Bitcoin.

So 'millibit', or back to 'embit' for me..

Yep - but we will struggle to call a 10 mBTC denomination a 'cent' because it would be confusing.

'Millis' works, but would you not have to say 'Bitcoin?' first if the coffeeshop normally takes USD / Euros?

Not against it - but we need to focus on mBTC and smaller for currency use in situations where adoption is likely to start.

At dollar parity - it's a perfect place to start and get it out there.

Even if it won't last!

Get a vote put up?

Nominees: 'bit' / 'embit' / 'milli'

We need to have a term - and imagine that coffee shop increasing the price in USD and putting it down in BTC often enough for people to realise what inflation REALLY means!

For me:

First lot ok - but too many syllables

Second lot - a little clunky 'cent-coin' yikes...

Third - 'ceebits' / 'embits' /'mybits'....   actually - genius!

Come on Stamp - back Gox up a bit - China is still lower..... anyone catching up so the bears know they're beaten on the 1000 line?

Someone just stuck 650 BTC ask at 1039 on gox , looks like I can sleep soundly.

Stamp ain't going to climb that 1000 wall it seems, so we are where we are for a bit.   Watching bots now - until the next drama.

Lately I realised I have started to dream of graphs.

Only "possibly" now...?   Losing the bear faith, are we?

Single digits would be a catastrophic crash - can you really envisage that without a huge exchange scandal / theft or a systemic failure?

We are talking BTC death at that rate - I can't see it (not impossible, of course) but barring a huge calamity inside the system itself - how?

Yes - if there's a Satoshi for No. 1 sBTC too?

Let's pester for a vote - I think it actually matters in terms of adoption and the future.

Maybe we will then be voting (as you suggested) for a next target of $2 / mBTC !

EDITED doh...

Your credibility is not in question, you have often been a good judge before - so I read this and think:  Wow!

Well done - will vote

1100 tonite??!

1086!

EDIT 1087 ATH

Hope so - I risked predicting it earlier - would love it to be by midnight uk time

1089 ATH

1094!

Looks like a little resistance at 2000 there 

1100 - a few hours late, but hey...

I will forgive that.

Hell of a wall at 1K- let's see how quickly the Stampers can kick it down, they are a little behind, poor chaps....

Be vigilant.... They will lick their wounds and prepare for next time. They will never go away forever.

China on a roll - fiatleaks looking busy - sure, it's incoming side only - but it's a hell of a lot of cash flowing in

4.  Can't happen quick unless withdrawn....   Slow capitulation, then part withdrawn is most likely I am guessing - it is too cheap!

The wall attack on Stamp is starting - a wall is building at 999.5 in front of the 1K ask wall...

Let battle commence

Stamp wall pretty much gone... wow!

Over it in minutes... Jeez

How is BTC staying at 936 - stinks - glad I have no coins there (but wish I had fiat!)

1210 ATH! Briefly...

We are nearly at gold parity - 1BTC = 1 G

Can you see the headlines

"Bitcoins worth more than GOLD!"

Eek!

We need to at least talk about it - the masses will be excluded - who the hell (apart from the rich) will want to buy into a market where one coin is over a thousand bucks?

Everyone's gone out and left the bots in charge - unless some whale makes a move - it's a flat line form here to China and back as the arbs even things out.

I was hoping for some fireworks tonight - but it will probably 3am my time...

Yawn...  Let's hope the thanksgiving boredom makes a whale or two feel lucky...?

This is Bitcoin - nothing is certain - other than not many players buying and selling 'big' right now.

It won't last forever, it just never does..

Don't forget, Bitcoin hit around gold parity earlier - it's not a small deal

Stability?  On what time frame are you calling this 'stability'...?!

It's sitting halfway between recent ATH and relatively recent low...

Like a truce in the trenches for the USA to have thanksgiving.

Let's see if it holds if China dips below 7k and the 'muricans get into evening...?

Give it an hour or two - max...

Just hit the alt coin market today: Edcoin it's gonna be the new bitcoin!

EDIT: sorry, I'm just really bored - when does the fun start? 

And what happened to Adam - he hasn't been on for ages...  Anyone know if he's ok?

About bloody time!

We just went over GOLD!

Oops - out of date prices, apologies....   Soon though, eh?

If we can deal with it not looking expensive and getting across that you can spend a dollar via BTC, and it's cheaper than WU - it will be adopted.

People aren't stupid if they can save money - they just need to realise that they can - and it's accessible and practical to someone with 200 bucks to send home.

Confession - I went a little bit into fiat at 1215, so I am hoping for a bit of a correction.

Hey - it's no fees weekend, am I forgiven?

I am not looking for three figures - I just figure this weekend will go up and down like a yo-yo and I have buy-backs set in the upper to mid 1100s.

Just want more coins!

If that is so - it is good news - we are ling in the 1000+ USD world, up with the gold price, it is not something that seems affordable for 95% of the planet, a $1 (ish) mBTC will make a real difference, 'hey you can buy 10 mBTC for a few bucks, dude' will bring way more people in.

Which is both inclusive and furthers our interests.

A certain regular contributor to here has two 'attack threads' about him set up - WTF?!

They are personal and relate to health issues etc.   I am pretty pissed off about it and I have said so, but of course that only makes the threads more current...

Whatever you think - I just want to say that I dislike this forum being policed by people who want to publicly disgrace others.

We are all a little bit out there, or we wouldn't be doing this - can I make a 'live and let live' plea, please?

Got that off my chest, back to candle-watching!

I may not agree with all you say, but (to paraphrase Voltaire) I will of course defend your right to say it.

That of course logically applies to anyone who attacks what you say too, I am afraid.

This is a forum about Bitcoin, however, and so I found the personal aspect of those attacks offensive and unnecessary.

Paying a visit to Alderney is not exactly easy....!  Seems daft the Bitcoin will probably be worth more than the coin, but you need to turn up in person to a tiny Island in the English Channel to redeem the Bitcoin part of it.    Odd.   Not very 'digital' is it!

As of April 2013, the island has a population of 1,903 people - and no direct flights from the UK(you have to fly in via Guernsey or Jersey.

Imagine turning up in ten years time:

"Hi, I have come to redeem my Bitcoin, I understand it's held in your digital vault?"

"Ooh, digital vault - I can't remember where we put that, Sir.  Er... hold on, better check at the post office see if they know about it...  Bit coin, you say, eh?   You're not from around here are you..."

Good to see the board back - spent all Sunday (am in UK) watching the fireworks and had severe withdrawal symptoms!

Last post I saw was something about:

'looks like it's all over...'

Somebody beat me to saying 'Not until the fat lady / bitcoin sings' and then the site was down.

A total roller coaster of a weekend - Adam's 'Will we ever see 900 again' poll was out of date inside 24 hours...

All fun stuff.

Great to see normal service is resumed - hope everyone held tight (or speculated like a genius)!

Judging by the last couple of days - the chance of it staying flat exactly where it is now is probably not a safe bet.

That said - with such massive movements price has proved pretty resilient and seems to favor a default level over 1000....

I won't bet on it, and it's been pretty wild (and will continue to fluctuate) but it may have found a level - it could have been anywhere with the swings we've seen, but I can neither see 500 or 2000 right now.

The only thing I would venture is that my hunch is, once the market thinks a level has been reached, it will start to grow again.

Someone already quoted Nietzsche:

'That which does not kill me, makes me strong'

I think this applies - if it was going to hit the floor, it probably would have done by now - so, perversely, any stability around a market comfort with a value in a day or so's time, will produce growth from that point.

Even rpietila mentioned that a factor in any crash would be DDOS on the forum.

I hate to sign up to conspiracy theories - but it is a beacon we all tun to in exciting / troubled times.

Us being suddenly in the dark (with quite a few larger holders checking in) is no bad thing if someone WANTS market uncertainty.   Timing was odd, it did go apeshit for a while while we were off... And raiders tend to kick your door down when you are not best prepared and they will take any advantage to create chaos if they are planning a surprise.

That said my old Dad always said, it's usually more often simply a cock-up than a conspiracy.

If it was designed to spread FUD, I don't think it really worked that well.   Sub 500 did not happen and I could not see anyone making on both sides as easily as all that.  I did watch the ratios between China and Gox and they stayed pretty close for a long time- but not constantly.

So, not proven - but I am open minded.   Not difficult for someone to organise, really.....  Much easier than an exchange attack.

Was saying the same thing (I was writing while you posted) but yep - it did stick in the mind.

Of course not, you are right.  And the exchanges were robust, so old Nostradamus didn't quite get it right, and it is one of those 'horoscope' type things that would always look prescient at some point....

Someone just bought a few right up to it....

Some fun starting?

Or maybe just a Wall Street fund guy who wants to leave at 5.00...

Going to be another interesting evening.

We can all only guess - it's a pretty chaotic system.  Unless you have big enough (and I mean huge) resources that mean they can 'make' it happen, no-one can tell what comes next.   Even the big guys screw up: too young a market - too many variables, too many fragile exchanges...

Unpredictable.  Truly.

Been trying to trade up and down all weekend, and largely (since it has always sung back at some point) it's been OK.

That said, I have hardly slept and been too scared to risk BTC in fiat to really risk more than two or three coins at once.

All weekend I watched the screens for fart too long and I think I made less than half a BTC wile risking thousands of dollars at a time.

I have (almost) given up - as one stupid trade would probabaly wipe out what meager money I have made thus far!

No - I meant on a whole weekend - maybe 20 hours of red-eyed watching candles - altogether!

EDIT: So, no it wasn't worth it- I am not a great trader, even after studying this stuff since earlier this year - anyone smarter than me might have...

That makes you twice as smart as me - but equally drained!

The only saving grace - was in the wee small hours I remembered (I confess, and yes - I know!) I bought some 'ripples' ages ago, and assumed they were worthless - but checked in and with BTC tanking they had shot up, so I flogged most of them for coin.  

Last time I looked it was about 80,000 per BTC, but it suddenly went to 15,000 on Saturday - so cashed 'em out for a few coins - they have tanked again now, so that was a lucky break - made me feel stupid about watching the candles after that, went out and had a good drink and left my phone behind so I couldn't check Bitcoinwisdom - the forum was down too, it was good idea to get out....   There is life outside - really!

To my shame I had 57,000 which had been worth way under a BTC - so a few hundred bucks.   But turning most of them into 3K was way better than day trading.

I would have flagged it up, but the forum was down - I bet we weren't the only ones...

You can still sell 20K Ripples for 1BTC guys - have a go?  You can get them to Stamp in seconds once they're converted into BTC.

(there - done it now)

They went from a couple of hundred a dollar, to around 14 per USD during the weekend fireworks, I just checked in once the forum was down (something to do) and er... Bingo!

Mind you I bet I just crashed the price now!

Well done anything that nets 47 BTC is a result.

I spend enough time on BTC to mean alts terrify me because of how much time I have put into BTC and I can't see anything close to the worth of a BTC.   Ripple was a bad idea, but trading them for BTC made up for it.

I guess it's worth noticing the hedge potential in the event of crashing (as per the weekend) but I have a job and a life (or did) and BTC is not my only passion, it's just the most obsessive one...

Damn that's a lot, I am just a Junior medium-late-adopter mate.   I got in when it was already a few bucks a coin - I nearly freaked out and sold in April, but I had not even found the Bitcoin forum then - I didn't know anyone else who even had any for months....

Whales can take it either way if they wish.

IMHO it will settle a little once Gox has the fees back in I suppose, but fluctuating 10% either way is still still at least possible...

With hindsight easy as hell... To foresee the 'right time' exactly?  We'd all be on our own private islands by now.

I am feeling VERY bullish - the bears have had to accept a higher consensus of the floor level.  Recent (relative) stability of over 1K IMHO means we will be up to gold very soon, I feel this week.  

Then new ATH is 1500 before 10 days are out.  

This is my sentiment.   OK - I should never make predictions - but I can't see any major correction up to this (c.1500) level - bears are bruised and battered, they will wait until 'irrational exuberance' raises it's head again before attempting anything serious.

Anyone else getting Gox misbehaving - getting  ow prices showing when bitcoinwisdom shows way higher... and then the odd 502 message upon refresh

Looking glitchy - or is it just me?

1.  I think if we know he is being tracked - so does he
2.  He was a dealer / trader - he will have been careful to be anonymous
3.  He must have pretty good tech know-how to have busted the echange and gradually looted every account without being seen
4. He can buy a lot of muscle with that kind of cash - a private army if needs be

I don't think it's a cert they will find him, he just need to lie low and have access to a computer and keep the coins cold for a while somehow.

Interesting - we shall see.

But whatever happens - I can't see all the coins suddenly being restored to their previous owners 'just like that'.  Think about it.

Isn't that people sending coins to track what he does with them (even if he rinses them) and see where the money goes to - acts as a marker....

Mind you - that's some wallet:

Final Balance    92,000.99143701 BTC

Yikes!

When he first grabbed them - he split it all up into endless wallets - the trackers knew he had to wait for confirmations, so they were sending coin to follow the wallets, of course the 'laundry' all ended up in one basket.

Now he is probably wondering what the fuck to do to move it faster so it can't be tracked.

A lot of people watching - a bit of a dilemma for the chap.  

First attempt to run failed - but he still has the key.

Every dark hat in the world will be trying to bust into his stash any way they can!

That's a $100 million wanted poster!

He will have to lie low - any fiat that turns up in large quantities will be noticed...

It's not like he needs to sell all of them at once - 1% will fund hiding away for a year - assuming he hasn't already got some money to keep him for a while.

He's only at risk when he shows up with fiat or large coin movements....

A $100 million heist where everyone in the world can see the wallet you have stashed the haul in....

Yep - it's a film script dilemma.

He calmly stripped the accounts over DAYS and left fake balances in them so no one would notice until he took the lot.

Pretty well-planned - he must have thought through an exit route - at least a personal one.  And he still controls the wallet... for now....

Well - he couldn't do it on Gox - imagine hassling Gox support about your transfer taking ages

We better look out for a 96,000 BTC wall on BTC-e

Probably his best bet is to contact 'connected' organisations and ask for help in laundry.

There are ways -but yep - he hasn't got away yet, he needs to get the cash somehow and that means finding a way to rinse it - which will be difficult now - will he have anyone he can trust when his wallet has 100 million bux in it?

Good article about the heist - and an (alleged) name:

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/did-one-of-the-silk-roads-successors-just-commit-the-perfect-bitcoin-scam

We had this debate a few days back please see link and vote on 'terms to use'?

Basically - you may want to talk of a bitcoin - but if what do you say if you want to buy a coffee?

Will they say:

"That will be 0.002 Bitcoin"

or "2 embits"

(or "milibits" / "mills" / "bits" / etc...)

Think about it?

Currently 1245.8 (ish)

And it is a big (psychological) milestone.

Press may well pick up on it ('Bit coin higher than Gold')

Might be meaningless numerically - but after '1000' it's the next press excuse

Very low volume - like watching a slow dripping tap....

Too quiet - I have a feeling there are a lot of watchers who are simply just... waiting. 

ATH tonight?

Edging up - still no real fireworks... but edging up nonetheless - is this a stealth attack on the ATH?

Me neither - been watching for three beers already.   I wonder if I will run out before the ATH - UK time it's late in the day, and I was hoping....

Gox is lagging I cannot buy just now - may be affecting price if it is not just me  

Bitconwisdom has China wall frozen at 6200

Lagging - but missed a couple of trades.

Been sightly lucky - I was waiting to transfer some fiat out - but bank verification was not complete so I had some fiat - but I ran out at 950.

Wish I had waited!

Not sheep money, I hope?

Not that many according to Bitcoinwisdom, either

LTC was appreciating by % more against BTC than the dollar yesterday, been buying more this morning - it did not crash as much as BTC (on BTC-e).

It seems to be getting away with the 'If BTC is gold, LTC is silver' tag.

At 0.035 ish, I think it's a buy.   BTC will rally back up and at the very least LTC does not like losing against BTC, so it is no a stupid thing to do.

Me too - have uncancelable orders on there - I kept trying to put them in and every time I refresh / re-login, they are back.  Terrifying !

Can't get mine out "not enough bitcoins in your account"

Not according to my balance - fuck this.

BTC Withdrawals from Gox ok - you just have to take 1BTC at a time...

Phew - all out.

Ironically, people may have to buy BTC just to GET OUT of Gox...

Will that push the price up?  Counter-intuitive thought?

Not sure if this was alresdy posted - but it might cheer anyone who has been reading the last few pages

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57614720-93/bank-of-america-deems-bitcoin-the-next-big-thing/

Not sure - it ain't good journalism - it's probably a re-hash of that broker report from a couple of days back - but the headline looks good!

Figured it may have been a little late  - but thank you.

haven't had time to read ALL the recent pages here, in my defence, I have a life too!

It's 'you're' not 'your' - if you want to insult someone, it helps to spell it right....

Inversely proportional 'beer consumed / spelling ability' factor?  Or just ignorance?

+1

It looks a scarily immature system for anyone to feel secure in investing in, if the 'major' and best known exchange is not remotely reliable

They will have to - but at least we have a spread now - I am respecting Stamp more for being more stable.

I think in this relatively Darwinian situation, Gox will lose it place unless it gets way better.   An exchange which you can't withdraw from is a total joke, let's face it.  If it is also unstable - it must change for the better, or die.

A year back there was only really Gox - step up, New Contenders - the prize is yours...

Probably a wise comment - Adam's vote had 80% agreeing $30,000 USD.

I am here to see BTC grow, it is an investment and I think most who are here are pretty much the same as me.  But hey, we do have a way to go yet.

I do think we need tempering a bit sometimes though.

However, I don't like the level of vitriolic insults - not my style.  Read them all and judge, sure.  Argue, even.

Personal insults just prove someone has no validation of their life that makes sense outside this forum, in my humble opinion.

The news was not bad - China will not be the end of Bitcoin, no.

Sentiment will decide ALL unless 'utility' overtakes 'store of value' as a reason for growth.  Store of value and speculation is all there is so far.  

What is priced in is future utility value and sentiment is the pricing factor in this.

It still is what the market believes it will become, and not YET what it actually is.

I think it will - that is why I am here - but disasters in the market can change things.  The exchanges must be fluid, accessible and trustworthy for it to grow to where (most of us) want it to.

Who wants to risk losing it all if they are buying in now?  The price is supported by hope and more importantly trust.  Exchanges must prove they are worthy of it.

Great film - loved it - but I wonder if they're look at the week's takings this week and watching the price go nuts and tank.

If we turn farmers into screen watchers, we aren't helping!

Don't get me wrong, this is the future - but not with 20% fluctuations within hours and broken exchanges!

I want it to work - I just think exchanges need to be more stable - after Sheep and now yet another Gox screw up I have seen, I think it has to be a hindrance to adoption - someone has to take a hit if a crash happens.  

I wasn't dissing the situation, just wishing we had a better run marketplace - that would help people like this and the infrastructure to support it.

The problem is - the majority of us here are full fiat.

Look at Adam's vote?

If we all think it's worth a mint, we are just sitting on it and only buying the dips.  The consensus here is 'hold' that is all.

So who will take it higher - we aren't buying it up to 1500 10,000 (fill your own price in), we want everyone else to come in and do it!

Going up requires BUYERS.  They come from wider adoption, better utility and yep, good news.   Other than that we can't do much to make it happen, we are drawing charts we want other people to follow.

Ironic, no?  (and I speak as a bull)

I am talking about 'us lot' not being what drives the market (even though we are 80% bulls).  Growth of positive sentiment does that, and new cash entry.   I think that is self-evident, no?

Kalispera

Nope - English, just being polite to my Hellenic fellow Bitcoin warriors!

Er - last time I looked, at the top of this and all pages here on this thread - take a vote?

I suspect most of the people here do not.  80% fiat at least, for the bulls, I would guess and a lag to get new fiat in....

Only bears or true traders keep fiat.  Bitcoiners are gung ho, and all the way in.

So - when does the fat lady sing...?

Come on graph experts - call it - I need some shut eye!

Funny the bottom might well have been exactly half what wall street reckoned was the BTC realistic price...

Maybe BTC has a sense of humour?

Holding for dear life, despite paper wealth depleted by a hell of a lot (in fiat terms) in just a few hours.

Come on Bitcoin, torch some bears for me?

Yup - that is what is making me smile - what do banks know...?

But Bitcoin will have the last laugh, I hope.

Oh for fuck's sake - you are having a laugh - if you really think anything like $1 is realistic - you are spending a lot of time on here for nothing, surely?

Off to bed - nothing to gain by staying up now - am out of fiat and pretty convinced 650 was about as low as it can go.

I hope to wake up and find I am not wrong - I trust rpietila and his cohort of fiat will keep our base level above this marker.

UK, 3.44 - just beer so far - but a spliff might be a good idea...  I need sleep - ask rpietlia to buy a few thou for me?

I am beginning to wonder if I am the only person here who does not live his parents, has a car which cost more than a thousand bucks, a nice sofa and er.... a girlfriend.

Maybe I am not nerdy enough and that's why I have not go as many coins as others seems to have

I will have to try harder - I think if I keep spending as much time as I have done watching the screen, I might be single before too long.

Also - to be fair - when she said 'why don't you sell them, then?' when I showed here they were over 1200 a pop, she now thinks she was right.

I want to be right but not sure I want to be single...

The weekend isn't over - and we all know nothing is really decided either way... yet.

She might, I just hope the price will oblige and look after that.

EDIT: It might cost me a car, though.  For her

Of course you do

+1

Fine libertarian spirit.

A central tenet of economics:

Investment is foregone consumption.

In plain English - we have to give up spending to have something to save.

Simple.

Tumbleweed time... very quiet - big money waitin' for us to sleep before it moves again?

Bitcoin is never this quiet for long....

Nope - just perfectly timed

Agree with some of the economics (although I am a Keynesian).

However, we are not gods - we are believers.  There is a difference.

I know and I can forgive you.  It's nice to see economics theory here instead of mathemetics and physics for a change.  It is supposed to be a child board of 'Economics' after all...

I checked but only contracts around are either dodgy, or just too expensive to make sense...  

Jeez - some whales are betting big against the price.

And then popping a 1000 BTC wall in at 699...   Price push down.

Me too - I had a buy left at 651.5 bid overnight....  Just got one in the last dip, but am wondering if there'll be one more today so I am totally back in coin and out of fiat before Monday.

Gox just dipped under Stamp, BTCe and China at the same time.

Odd.

Yeah - I am curious too - I would like to also have:


'a better life then 99.99% on earth'

..hmmm...

Ah - you're a window cleaner?

I want to be on the first page of the 3000s...

Bugger - premature postulation.

Huh - 20 minutes without a post?

Suddenly we all have a life?

I can't see it as a profitable trade - I don't get it.

It's only Gox for some reason - almost like someone wants Gox below other markets.

Is this the game (it is the price that media quote, the one BTC is 'priced' in).

A cheap way to manipulate overall market price by affecting one exchange - is that the logic?

I meant changing the relative market prices between Gox, Stamp and Btce - which 'may' be what is going on.

Throwing money at Gox will not work, no, but it is keeping Gox under other exchanges just now.

I am wondering if this is the rationale

I know it seems crazy - but who dumps that many (and then seemingly buys back at a loss) without an agenda?

I was looking for bid walls on other exchanges and I can't see any, so it probably isn't an attempt to push the whole market down and sell at higher prices elsewhere.

What makes little sense (to me) is BIG money being that stupid - there must be some reason for pushing the price down - I  just fail to see what it is.

You have been watching someone losing hundreds of thousands of dollars, but changing market price in the market.

But is this a cheap way of realising a strategy we have no inkling of?  Who benefits from Gox price keeping low, I wonder?

Been trying to - I even wondered if it was another exchange dumping!

Can't see an arb going on, you could buy on Gox and sell in China if you were sophisticated enough, but of course that would not justify dumping on Gox.

I can't see money where the money is from or going to - so I have no clue - but this is a manipulation, not stupidity - anyone could see it makes no sense to lose money that way.

The three (non-CNY) exchanges are running very close just now - this is unusual, you must admit.

People USED to put up with that (and higher charges) as the price was higher and the liquidity was better.  At parity, better to trade on Stamp where you can get money out!

Probably won't last - but I have never seen them all within 10 bucks - this is a tiny spread!

Fiatleak shows money going in - not trade, I think...

Just watched all three exchanges get within 3 bux and Stamp and Gox within 20 cents.

Very odd synchronisation carrying on....

I feel something is going on - and it does not feel Bearish.

No one here knows - but I think it's not going to be a quiet evening somehow - there is big money hovering as we saw early on.   Only people officially 'working' on Sunday are in the Arabic world and serious players here.   But we have seen big swings and large cash.

The weekend is not over by any means IMHO.

It is a hint of activity, that is all.  When it goes over 10,000 BTC /hr worldwide things tend to get interesting - but basically, I agree it is not really a good trade indicator other than 'money flying around'

I agree on the strategy - but I just could not see the trading which would have made this sensible showing up simultaneously on the other exchanges -as you would have expected.   Am still clutching at straws, but I refuse to believe anyone playing with a thousand BTC + is an idiot with no agenda

This would make sense, yep - and it would be worth creating it, we have all see stupid spreads and not been able to practically arb them.

Hey - if you did wrote and 'arb-bot' would you have to accept the first thing that would happen upon launching it be a selling down of the higher exchange - an automatic reduction of the spread?

Just a kooky theory?

Yes - except the tight spread is continuing - it may not hold if a huge buy / sell comes in - but this has been too close for too long to be a coincidence - or am I insane?

And it was 'normally' easily 10% between Stamp and Gox, and no-one really thought that unusual, right?

Now it has been less than 1.5 % for some time.

Must be by design and may explain the hammering down of the Gox price to start the bot engine off...  Only a theory, and they coudl all diverge in 10 minutes, but it just looks like they are much more closely linked now.

And it's Sunday - a good time withthin trading to start up, meaning you play the spread properly when the pro money kicks off on Monday having tested it out...?

Hmm....  

EDIT: more like under 1.5% sorry

It doesn't feel like it did us much good right now, though!

A few days ago I was sure we would take Gold and then rise to, oooh, y'know 1300 up to 1500 range.

Since then we have dipped below 600 and can't seem to stay over 700.

I have spent all my fiat buying at what seems to be amazing prices compared to a even a week ago.   

Good news would be stability over 800 right now - I would settle for that!

I am all BTC - so full-on bull - and thanks for the reminder that any bears are trapped in fiat.

Just bored of the 700 loop when the news has been largely excellent...  I have traded the ups and downs - but I have not taken huge pleasure in my gains.

I just haven't seen a good choo choo train for a fair while! (he said, sulking)  

+1

Long term - it's a cert.  So, I think I will take next week off and see if I can ignore the screen for a bit.*   

Then I can pop back and it will all have changed and the bears will be back in their caves, licking their wounds and panic-buying to to get their goxbux out. 


*I doubt I will have this much willpower

My frustration is purely that the indicators have not warranted the carnage we have seen, I am concerned we are being manipulated by people who don't give a damn about Bitcoin, just easy pickings...  

There has been no real reason for the drop I can make sense of if Bitcoin has a future.

If it didn't we would be WAY lower, but why the timidity with all the news being so positive?

To be more positive - if 'that which does not kill us, makes us strong'

Then we have now proved this - so a bull market MUST now return.

Sorry - but I have to ask..... Do all sweet guys have links to selling porn in their mail signatures?

No, I am not a girl.

I think this conversation is over.  Sorry - but the details of your lifestyle are really not something I want to discuss.

It's a Bitcoin forum.

+1

All three exchanges still trading real close....

2 bucks between them as I type, it's not coincidence - been like that for hours now - I think it went $12 at most even when it was doing a yoyo earlier...

That is er... quite a lot!

The price on Gox was specifically attacked over Sunday by a bear or bears to try and hoover up cheap coins before this week's trading.

It was aimed at thin volume markets and weak hands.

I am guessing the trade did not work - at least not entirely, judging by what loaded said - it seems some stashes were big enough to defeat the main aim of the bearish whale.

The fundamentals are sound (better then ever in terms of sentiment and 'adoption') so the news in China seemed a good moment to hit a weak market.   The fact that the news was not really bad, but made China a little nervy was good timing in some respects - but I think the line held and Bitcoin has proved more resilient than expected.

Huge volumes did not smash BTC down to sub 500 as 'may' have been expected - we could all see the big sales and then walls popping up - but the ability to buy low was not really enough as major buying back was not possible without buying back the whales own wall - I don't think the profit was really there.

There has been manipulation to keep all exchanges (except China) to remarkably close prices too - but all of this appears to have failed and a shift to a market price of 800+ plus seems to have won over.

For me this was a giant fail - and it had to work before Monday morning European time to succeed.

I suspect the whale has Gox bux now as focus was on Gox.    

Bitcoin won the day - it will not be the last battle, but it was a significant one and may have taught some bears a lesson.

I actually think if rpietila takes the 10BTC bet - he will lose it.  

'That which does not kill me, makes me strong'

Me too - cashed 20% of the lot out at 979 (I went out and left some trades on Gox)

With all that's been going on - I thought if orders filled, by the time I came back it would be dropping back again.

I am a bull - but the pattern has been a yoyo for some time - so it remains to be seen if that was smart or stupid.

24 hours is a long time in Bitcoin, right?  Long term is up, but meanwhile.....

I have set my buys up, we shall see...

Bicoinwisdom also looks weird - long lag - very slow movement - just odd.

Hope Gox isn't flipping out - won't be pretty if it does it now

Anyone good a reliable ticker for gox just now - my regular ones (wisdom and ticker) are not showing prices properly!

EDIT:   Ah - maybe as the API is off, the bots aren't working - hence odd look

Thanks I need a second opinion!

Skill / lack of it?  'Let he who hath no guilt cast the first stone'.

This is a speculation forum and I certainly do not have this one on ignore - anyone who admits a cock up on shorting is someone who has my respect, and I will tend to think them more credible, not less.  

I have day traded a bit and lately, it has worked out positive, so I know it is possible, especially since any position that went wrong in one time frame, simply required waiting!  

Can anyone enlighten us as to what it is - I was hoping someone who knew (I am obviously not smart enough) to come up with an answer...

I assume it is a feature to enlighten us as to some aspect of price - but what?

With 80% bulls here you should get good odds - but I would be surprised if anyone is brave enough to give you 2 to 1 for the bet.

personally gambling on Bitcoin is enough for me - in theory I will not lose massively at either price if I am clever enough - but I would love to watch someone offer you odds...

It would beat watching this ticker for a while and someone would end up a hero of sorts.

We would be able to judge just how bearish / bullish you are too!

+1

You can't buy cheap if you only have BTC - you have to sell first.   And that means getting TWO bets right.

I will probably get shot here for this - but here's my take:

My advice for what it is worth:
I personally find that running spread sheet with all I have ever put into BTC and some alts on it (priced in BTC).
I also have it showing a figure of what price of BTC would have to be to see me at zero profit (this has to be a fiat figure to make sense).
Since I bought some way back, and have bought more since - it gives me an average price of what BTC would have to fall to, in order for me to have wasted my time.  
I trade and buy / sell part of my stash (yes, on Gox) always trying to make sure the average ‘break-even’ stays down at a level that I think realistically BTC will not fall to.  This is around the 300 USD mark for me - any lower is a net loss on money in vs current price on my current coin holdings.
When I cash anything out (sell some coins) it actually reduces the 'no profit' level, as the cash in the spreadsheet insures against a fall in price.
So my risk from a catastrophic crash looks better (and feels it) whenever I sell a couple of BTC.
If the price drops enough to do between 5-10%, on rebuying, I buy back in, if it doesn't - I consider just withdrawing the funds.  A little profit, or some of my fiat back is no bad thing, given I have actually invested funds in.
In the past few weeks - I have many times decided I would cash a few coins out to try to get closer to net profit 'no matter what', but every time the price has dropped to a level it is stupid not to buy back in at - that is, significantly lower that I sold coins for.

Many nights I have thought – OK, I will cash a few out - but left a bid at a lower price for slightly more BTC 'just in case' and woken up to find I had my fiat gone and an increase in my holdings.

In conclusion having some fiat and not worrying about it, is the only way to trade in a calm and sensible way - full BTC means you need to sell with perfect timing and then not miss the bottom and spot it when it is.   Most people here seem to be terrified of losing profit on the coins they have by selling - but unless you have some fiat at the right time, you cannot take advantage of this.

In real time trying to trade on short timescales, it is impossible not to get emotional and screw up - if you set trades up and leave them, it does remove the risk of panic in both directions.

Sell at what you feel is a reasonably good price, to take a little fiat out - then if the price does not fall, don't be afraid to cash a little profit out to reduce your risk on the original investment?

I believe in Bitcoin and I have invested some savings - but it will not make me a millionaire just yet.   So my aim is to be playing with my original investment back with no risk of crash.

I did not buy thousands of coins in 2011, so I am not in the league of many here, I must add – so my thoughts will not apply to all, but if anyone bought in at under current price levels – if the market flips regularly as it has – keep a little fiat and trade to increase coin, while always being prepared to be in fiat too.
For me, my advice would be to look for 5% to 10% profit on trades – not to be totally right about the big swings top and bottom long in advance…

And if a trade looks bad, hang on either way, don’t panic, just wait – if it’s gone totally bad, just take the fiat out and hold what you’re left with?

Good for you - I haven't yet, I have made steady buys in dips to carefully increase my exposure.  I just won't bet the house on it, or get over a risk of an average price that rpietila is prepared to bet on

Play safe and minimise risk, why stress?

You and I did not buy when a pizza's worth would have been enough to retire on!

I stay fluctuating at 80% fiat - and everyone has a different strategy.  Mine has worked for me, but I am not prepared to liquidate other investments (mainly art) which are more reliable (if not quite as obsessively exciting as this!).

Good luck to all, I guess - we all want to be right, and we would not be here if we didn't think we had a chance of just that.

I think 30,000 USD soon is unrealistic, but I do think I might just pay off my mortgage in a year or so, and that will be fine by me.

It is the last debt I have - and as I live in the UK, it is substantial enough to be something I would be very happy to have done, and so far - looking realistic.  

I will settle for that and if the price allows, I will cash out - I don't want to be a multi-millionaire - really, I never met one I envied when I got to know them.

+1

Or should that be...

-1

It may well be 2 minutes tops and trashy - ITV is not the BBC...

I have a feeling staying over 900 all weekend is highly unlikely - am in more fiat than usual, I think we might see some cheap coins this weekend.

Oh dear - arrogance is never appealing - steady, eh?

Gandibit is Ok - I know you will say don't care if you make friends here, but if you don't care, why bother posting here - ego?

You are at risk of being a bang-on contra-indicator!

That's ok - just keep posting your intentions, please, mate?  

I have some DGC - wish I had more....   You mentioned them before and I bought a few hundred, er.. thanks!  

A few hundred coin won't make me weep, and if BTC goes up the rising tide seems to help.   It seems to have weathered the dips ok, and I am in profit anything over 0005.

My only other 'guilty pleasure' (aside from LTC) is QRK - hilarious increase, bought a load under .0001 and it's up way more than twice, but the little alts do soon fade.  Gonna dump some to get my stake out and leave the rest to see whether they fade or surprise me - you never know, eh?

It ain't over yet, these flat periods have sometimes presaged a little action late on in the small hours, once we've got bored and volume has reduced to a minimal amount.  

It's probably fair to say the only predictable thing about Bitcoin is that it will behave unpredictably...

Hmmm... Do you remember last weekend the 3 non CNY exchanges were weirdly in sync within about $12 for hours on end on the Sunday - was this anything to do with this - they tracked each other too close for it not to be by design.

Maybe it's nothing to do with it - but it was happening...

I see the silk road coins are still under lock and key:

https://blockchain.info/address/1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX

If they become 'seized proceeds of crime' after conviction - do they hit the market at any point....  Silly season question, just curious

Friendly warning - Cryptsy is buggy and trades made are debiting the coin but not showing the trade they were aimed at, or buying anything.

AVOID until fixed.  A lot of pissed off people and once the coins go, there is no record of the transaction on the site in open orders or in trades - the money disappears!

I guess they will fix, but who needs to be in the long support ticket queue at Cryptsy?

I assumed someone had made some sort of 'arb-bot' across the three, but it makes sense there was some sort of inter-exchange co-operation.  maybe it was a dry run, but it is effectively a currency price control 'peg' and will fail if big money wants to bust it.    Perhaps the idea is to prevent one exchange being singled out for a move, spreading the load - do the exchanges trust each other enough to agree...?

Imagine the FBI being Goxbuxed!

Someone on Wall Street will offer to 'help', I am sure - they can hardly sell on an exchange....

It will be interesting to keep an eye on it, once the trial is resolved.  May it be a while til it is though..!

You are leaving out greed and what is in game theory known as 'the prisoner's dilemma' - why would the Russian-based Btc-e trust Mark at Gox to not act in his own best interests in spite of any 'agreement' that is in all their best interests IF it holds?

Once the market gets volatile - it always will get to the point when 'each to their own' at some point.  Self-interest in markets always prevails in the end.

All fractional banking-style banks cannot withstand a run, so if everyone acts rationally - and does not join a collective demand for their money back, all will be fine (in theory).

But runs on banks only pay the first in the queue, so everyone wants to be first.   Exchange co-operation will be ok in smooth waters, but not in calamitous times - ask Mr. Soros?

I watch with interest - but it's a Darwinian and (relatively) unregulated market - so I think it's 'no prisoners' if it comes to crisis point.

The Bitcoin foundation should lobby for it to be sold in smaller tranches to not allow a huge manipulation of the market.

Still wondering who will nail what the grey line on Bitconwisdom is.  

The question has been asked a few times since yesterday....

Is it to do with bid depth average movement? It seems to move with bids, rather than asks - I am stumped - anyone got an answer yet?

EDIT - it moves with both - so it must be a balance of some sort between the two.

Yep - that makes sense, thanks.

I am just trying to factor in what watching it will tell me - movements up and down reflecting shifting bid / ask strengths - It will be useful as a sentiment / expectation of movement indicator (although ultimately the big players' money moves will make it irrelevant, of course).

Maybe Risto and friends are up early this Sunday - I trust Loaded will wait until he can see the whites of their eyes before he fires the harpoons...