These bogus arguments are still circulating, although the "official bitcoin sources" now seem to avoid them.

Governments can outlaw or regulate Bitcoin as they wish.  Their law enforcement agencies generally have sufficient power and tools to ensure that most citizens will comply with the laws.  See China and India for example.

I cannot recommend to anyone that they invest money in something which, in my opinion, is unlikely to ever be more than a form of gambling.

As for impact, last year we saw in Brazil the collapse of TelexFree, a rather obvious Ponzi schema, and OGX, an oil company which allegedly misled investors about productivity of its wells.  Each involved the transfer of several billion dollars from the pockets of smart people to those of even smarter people. (The TelexFree operators alone pocketed more than half a billion USD; still unclear how much more.)

Yea but how do you make more btc when your only hodling?

you sold nothing? not even to recoup your investment?

I learned the hard way. The clowns in this thread were able to teach me one thing. The only reason to sell is to buy back in later for a substantial profit.

Etoro is out of Beta and orders are executed 4 times a day now instead of once in beta.

Why always "talking book" when someone expresses an opinion...

I saw it mentioned on Blacklist and Almost Human.
Besides Criminal Minds, what is the other?

Well after the Simpsons did it you had to see this coming.

First China, then India, and now Russia. Before long, half of humanity will be excluded from Bitcoin.

I'm afraid many of us might be imprisoned for Bitcoin. Be safe.

Is the selling instant? Don't they have to transfer the coins, and get the desired price, which may take some time?
In the meantime, during a sell-off, the price could drop 10% and they would end up with a 10% fiat loss.

+1 I really don't think people have been thinking enough about the pressure on the Chinese to BUY. Imagine if suddenly you realised you might have more difficulty in getting money to your exchange in the near future, and that this might only become more and more difficult? What would you do?

They are telling you that Bitcoin is not currency and should not be used to buy goods!

I conjecture that the people trading at Huobi tend to be bullish in the morning and bearish in the afternoon, local time (noting that on this Sunday the morning happened after noon  ).

I could check this conjecture if I had 1-h trade data for the last couple of months or so... 

(Why doen't bitcoincharts.com list Huobi and OKCoin?)

Yes, that is what I usually watch.  But it doesn't have a text download option (does it?).  Bitcoinchart does.

everyone that believes in the confirmed bad news thread

I just mailed your posts to some participants from the upcoming senate hearing...

So i should put my money and trust in the hands of Gox and Huobi?

The Bundesbank is basically suggesting a one off tax on private assets before any more assistance would be given to bankrupt nations in Europe.

Assets doesn't just mean the cash in the bank, it means houses, stocks, bonds, etc.

Two more arrested for victimless non-crimes.
I feel sorry for these guys, but that's one of the risks you take when you live in the land of the free fee.

http://www.businessinsider.com/report-ceo-of-major-bitcoin-exchange-arrested-2014-1 is the link I just found via Google..

Thanks 

At this rate it shouldn't take too long before 99 percent of the US population is behind bars.

If democracy would work, I'd say 51% can put the other 49% in prison. That would actually be an improvement over the system as it is now.

If the bold part is true, lol.

Doesn't an increase in the prison-industrial complex create more GDP growth than the people it imprisons would if they were free? It wouldn't surprise me if imprisoning increases GDP, just like building hospitals increases GDP. You see, we need more sick people and criminals to grow the economy.

Kinda funny to see all exchanges act so different. Stamp/btc-e dumping, hyubi not really giving a fuck, and Gox is just sitting near that 1k mark like a kid with autism and doesnt even know whats going on.

Can we conclude that this sudden crash to ~750 in the Western exchanges was due to the news of Shrem's arrest?

Huobi was in the middle of a downtrend with occasional hiccups, but clearly it did not start that crash; and it reacted only slightly to it, presumably because of arbitrage trading.

It will be some time before the news of Shrem's arrest are translated and reported in Chinese media -- if they are at all.  Until this morning I had never heard of the guy, and presumably he and the Bitcoin Foundation are totally unnown in China. So perhaps the Chinese markets will just ignore the incident.

Bears are certainly much more deluded. Every crash is "the end".

Russia wins the dubious distinction of the first country in the world to officially ban Bitcoin (unlike earlier Thailand myth).

It's not true. Russian government "warns the businesses that getting involved with virtual currencies may be in violation of certain AML laws or something".

i guess this is just part of regulating bitcoin exchanges, which is a good thing for the established interests...
once all the laws are passed and exchanges are in full compliance that should be a big weight lifted the brokers/banks will make all the money.

Indeed everyone who isn´t super bullish is a traitor an infidel , every word he says is FUD and of course he can be insulted every time he says something not overall positive about Bitcoin.
Actually  bad news are good news and will bring Bitcoin even higher, so in fact there are no bad news there are only good news and all bears are morons that need to be slapped.

Boy, you are on a run today. Doing your usual damage control?

You're thinking of a best case sceanrio in which Bitcoin becomes a massively adopted global phenomenon where every person has an interest in using it. But this graph is not intended to show success cases where something because a legitimate successful enterprise. It is intended to show ponzi schemes or things that fail or become unuseful (or not all that it was hyped up to be).

It's not wrong, we just don't know where we are, or what the mean looks like.

it's amazing the psychology of people who do not actively engage themselves in investing.....
I heard a story about a wealthy man who went out onto the streets of Chicago as part of an experiment and advertised FREE money. he had $1000 to give. nobody stopped. obviously too good to be true. except for a man who needed bus money.... he asked for $2.

No that graph represents human emotion, in regards to hype

Just waiting for the right shoulder to form for the inverse head and shoulders, then we're going to have some fun seeing the bears panic buying.

Can someone please tell me how long does one wait for international transfer (withdrawal) from gox?

Okay, it is written here: https://support.mtgox.com/entries/21651045-AML-Account-Statuses

If I want to upgrade to Level 2, do I need to to notharize with apostille only my ID or also a utility bill? Does someone know?

Does anybody know how many coins Shrem has? I bet the FBI takes them too.

What if I told you that Shrem works for the FBI...

At 1006 there was a sell signal with target of going down to 870.

Always was and still is.

just read some guy on reddit saying that it's going down to $200 

wow

Dude.. its called microphone! No need to shout the voice through the internet

She said: DON´T HODL

When plotted on a super-exponential growth-adoption curve bitcoin is not really all that volatile ...

Noticed that too. Think he said it twice... Freudian slip?

I take it back, this guy didnt sell @450, it was probably @150-200, before the rally to the 1200

Creating a market for futures is what these hearings are partly about, I thought.

I don´t know if anyone of you has seen this before. Just found it in the INTERNET! Just look how they match

proudhon's max leveraged short, is gana get ssssssssssssqqqqqqqquuuuuuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeddddddd

 

Who invited those panelists? It's like having a meteorology panel with a couple of rain-dancing indians on it. Still reeling from the claim that coinbase is undercapitalized. They clearly don't understand CB's business model. They take almost no risk and charge me 1% fee in both directions. Got to be just raking in money.

Who is that in your avatar?  is that Doc from Back to the Future?

So why are you all so angry. I thought your main intention is that BTC will be used as a curreny. What is your problem if the Bitcoin price would 1$ or 50$.
Why does it have to be Bitcoin and not another cryptocurrnecy? I thought it´s all bout the protocol and it´s possibilities. Maybe Google will use the Protocol, so what.
In the end you would have won. (Of course not if you hodl Bitcoin   )

  Quite a lot in here it seems :-D

Just like email has to walk and talk like a post office.  This video will come back to haunt that guy.  unfucking believable.

Btw what´s way scarier than the possible china ban is MTGox. It seems that their problems are gettin even worse.
A lot of the people haven´t heard from the support in the last 3/4 days.
Almost 30000BTC are stuck/lost in tx....

50% doge 50% ripple 0% Bitcoin 

fonzie do you short BTC if so at what price? Else if you got 0 btc why are you here again?

Yuck why would you want China back? China is like a poison for Bitcoin. Too many people are excited over this.

Fairly big dump of BTC-e, other exchanges are slowly starting to follow... right into the panda bear trap.  crashing like a china in a bull shop.

Did i miss something? Whats up with a 1k sell at bearstamp?

So should it come to your stash you'd be much smarter and more secure, eh? And you're impervious to a $5 wrench?

But I would like to remove the wrench vulnerability on those wallets.

That's not how the idea behind the 'wrench' method works.

Once the wrench is being applied to you, the assumption is that the cost for you is so high (possibly: death) and the cost for them is so low (5$ wrench) that you will do *anything* in your power to give up the secret.

Even if you set up a system that makes it impossible for you to actually give up the key, the cost for you to set up the 'cannot reveal' method is substantially higher (death, no coins) than the cost for them to apply the 'wrench' method (5$ wrench, no coins)

Good point. If you calculate your personal utility not only based on "payout to yourself", but "payout to people you care about", my wrench method calculation fails.

Maybe I'm just too egotistical to think like that, however

I find this part about the family a little odd in that implies one's family would care more about the Bitcoins than dad's/husband's life. I guess it varies from family to family. Surely most of us want to provide for our family however if someone were being tortured I imagine the animal instinct of self-preservation would kick in whether we feel warm and fuzzy about it or not.

If you have a stash and you are the only one with the password but even you "can't access it" and you are killed, who will be able to get the stash? If the stash requires multiple signatures and one of the parties dies with the password, who gets the stash?

Why would the bad guys use physical presence and physical force when they can remotely hack into my computer, install a virus that will steal my keys just when I try to use them, and have it send my bitcoins instead to a mixer in Timbuctu?

The police could perhaps save me from the wrench method.  Who is going to help me recover my hacked-off bitcoins?

But the image that is being sold to the public is that one will be able to pay purchases in bitcoins by pointing one's smartphone at a QR code on the cashier's screen.  How could I do that without exposing my keys to a hacker attack?

(*interesting that any time I type bitcoin, or litecoin, I get a red squiggle telling me I'm spelling it wrong. Yet when I type utter nonsense, like doge or doge coin, or even doge-wolves.. there is no red squiggle.

obviously doge is the true coin of the future.

So, who would want to trade bitcoins in private, and why?

There is one thing keeping the Bitcoin price up at the moment... Mt Gox. Without it we would be much lower.

Doubtful.

What the fuck? Someone pinch me:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/raining-catcoins-dogecoins-opray-winfrey-reality-show-backs-animal-cryptocurrencies-1434629

Two meme-based altcoins featured on the Oprah Winfrey Network before Bitcoin?

This article is SO WEIRD. Especially the thing about the shelter, and the schoolkids being taught about cryptocurrencies........

Now, on topic:

One would expect that a big "wall" - an offer to buy or sell 100 BTC or more, sitting in the order book - would be a barrier for the price, halting its fall or rise for a while.

But could it be that a big wall also attracts large transactions that "eat" it instantly?  

Sup with btc-e overdumping

Bitstamp is used more by payment processors like Coinbase/BitPay etc. keeping a steady flow, while btc-e is mainly speculation folk.

Wow.  Such crash.  Doge hurtin' today.

Anyone noticed the strange under market price sales @ gox? Sales show both at bitcoinwisom and clarkmoody.

All the withdraw issues and the bad press that Gox has been getting because of it is causing a pretty big sell off.   Even though it's all being sold off, people are still going to continue to have issues actually getting money from them.   Hopefully this can be fixed somehow soon...

I never had problems getting fiat or BTC out of Gox. 5 days to transfer fiat into my account . 30 min to transfer BTC.  I use EURO and JPY and live in Europe. Gox transfers from Poland. I guess it is only americans hating Gox? This fall to 830 seems good, since the less of a gap between excanges, the better.

I do however not use them anymore since I am holding and have my BTC in cold storage now..

I did. Now I am holding. 5 -14 days is not the best for arbitraging, it would ofcourse be better with hours...

I do trade activly in LTC and NMC now, and hold BTC. Never did any large or heavy trading on MtGox, so I could just be lucky. I know about friends in my country that have had problems with MtGox, so I am not denying problems, but i think its a bit over hyped.

Wow...did anyone bother to read my post?

Am I missing something or is it fine for an exchange to allow its users to place orders without funds to back them?

I see a couple of large transactions on Bitfinex (79 BTC and 101 BTC) at low prices around the $680 mark - then virtually no trades after those - the price is back up now. What makes people say Bitfinex is hacked, though?

What happened with bitcoinwishdom?

Doesnt show any graphs for me. Only the frame of the site.

I think that they chose the wrong tactic with trying to create stability. It would have been easier to pump the market and create a new steady rise. They could of even created an illusion that a lot of people are buying bitcoins through this new service and most would believe that the rise is real. If the price is slowly rising then the cash transfer service will get good reputation, because your sum can actually rise during the transfer.
Rises can be more easily controlled and are more stable. This artificial stability makes the market nervous and can cause a big enough dump, that is too strong to control.

Tell me about these different (f)actors and motivations then.
Telling me that "your theory could be wrong, because there could be other answers" isn't very constructive.

Anyone here who has coins locked at mtgox?

The author is personally affected by MtGox’ behavior, having a six-figure dollar amount in such non-executed withdrawals. He considered Gox to be a safer repository for bitcoin than his own probably-hackable computer. That judgment may not have been accurate.

Why are you so surprised.

Haven't you learned form the inputs.io scam that people are willingly letting go of their bitcoins , and they do this quite easy , thinking that  everything is safe and is run by blue honey bears?

I have an aversion against dogmatic and dishonest people. It culminates in outbursts of the opposite order sometimes, even though I like Bitcoin.

seriously. among the top reasons given again and again on this forum for why bitcoin might tank (forever) is exploit in software code. so. we are back to pre - bug news level in  less than a half hour. wtf?

 

It just amazes me how it affects all major exchanges. Actually didn't expect that. So yes, from a practical world view, I would say that something has gone wrong that this was not noticed before by any of them.

It does, maybe I am just too naive and have been afflicted by the prevailing wisdom that MtGox is just particularly incompetent (though I don't mean to say they aren't).

Why is Gox price so low? Because you can't withdraw coins!

Why is stamp so high when you even can't withdraw coins?  

A Holliday seal of approval? I'll opt in for that, but I am afraid I will possibly not never get to hear back on this matter.

I forgot to accuse one particular shill and downplayer of problems: Andreas Antonopoulos. Only yesterday had I realized he was the same Andreas I always liked to listen to long ago on Let's Talk Bitcoin. Shame what a Bitcoin cultist he bcame, even if he is no less intelligent today.

Blitz is right on this, without MtGox bitcoin wouldn't have taken off. That MtGox management / staff are still largely incompetent after several years, it's another issue.  

Holliday, I think there is a severe lack of synergy in the Bitcoin world. I would have thought the Bitcoin Foundation would address this, but I stand corrected.

Of course MtGox were largely incompetent no matter how you look at it, from multiple standpoints, but that doesn't mean they were lying on the underlying issue.

The recent Bitcoin problems could be good for other altcoins as it may give them to opportunity to shine as they don't (currently) have any withdrawal problems!

These are my thoughts anyway!

People finally realized that it is about time to invest into something real!

3800 transactions waiting to be confirmed, is that normal?
https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

Its over. This is final capitulation. Move your assets to Dogecoin.

Theories as to why Stamp is still higher than Gox?

Gox is tanking 

Makes little sense does it (giving Mark more money in fees)....I have coins stuck on there but refuse to trade for this reason.

If I only had a bitcoin for every time I've heard this...

SR 2.0 stolen coins adress

https://blockchain.info/address/1DKH2oZtrcAAoZXsNJQnKBwKYaYdx5KrVV

Bitcoinwisdom down?...

A question... are paper checks still used in the US?

When I lived there in the 1980s we did not use credit cards, we paid most store purchases and bills with checks from a small local bank.  For utility bills we just placed a check in the return envelope that came with the bill, and hung it on the front door for the mailman to pick up. 

Will bitcoin payments ever be so convenient? 

well at least capitalization is over. or almost.

the sun always rises again.

Whereas of course a criminal with your fiat is a ok.

Guys who are determined to hold,
Don't do this to yourself! Sell your coins or move away from the computer, you shouldn't watch this..

Remember, that you still have your health!

Where are all the hodlers and bulls now?

 

can anyone suggest a good bitcoin price ticker site, something i can use while bitcoinwisdom is offline?

PLZ stop trollin. We both know that DOGE has already solved this.

Wow! Tell us more! What a high roller!

Wow this is not the bottom yet. Gox almost under 400... I´ll wait a bir more and then get in full Fiat

So if GOX didn't do anything wrong then why does it look like they will be insolvent soon?

I think there is something more to this than just a simple coding error.

I'll probably be hated for this post, but that is why a free market relying on trus does not work properly - maybe future with trustless p2p fiat/btc market solve this issue.  

the decrease in prices is a joke. who is seriously selling now with the intention not to buy back immediately?

Set orders @ high 400´s but am not sure if we will get that much down. Seing huge walls @560

We need a sportscaster to call out the play-by-play live action during these events.

HODLiday still hodlin?

I feel a little bad about myself that I made you upset like that, so you think you had to prove yourself in this manner. It's all good, you are an wealthy person, so there's no reason to feel insecure.
I have to be honest, that lying and misleading can irritate me. But in here, most of the people don't even realize that they are lying to themselves and to others.

And the truth reveals itself 

Bottom? Or lower during the weekend?

Once Stamp and Gox resume withdrawals the price is going to go insane.

(590-410)/410*100 = 43%

OK man... well I take your word for it... but a word of advice... we are the sum total of our thoughts...

think about that in all honesty seriously... because I for one have had cause to wonder this question about you... what kind of man is Fonzie? because honestly trollin and shits and giggles aside... and I know we are all busting each others balls to a degree and I like to come on here for a laugh and bust some balls but also to acutally talk and discuss and maybe learn and  well you know... not just be a jerk all of the time... don't carry negative energy around all the time Fonzie it will kill you and drain the love and joy from your life...

I say here with 100% certainty that some of you are twats, maybe I am one of the twats, but unless you are actually an employee of a PR company working for Morgan then remember that on the other side of this are people, and at the end of the day,  imagine actually if for what I would conisder a very outside chance Bitcoin goes wrong... that actually there will be people that it has an effect on... thats the difference between a person that is here to actually discuss Bitcoin, they are here to , well discuss bitcoin and yeah have some shits and giggles along the way... but  really, as a decent human being, if there is a person on here and they have a position whatever it maybe  and it goes against them, you know it could actually be a real bad thing for them (it could a be a short position)  and basically if you are on here
gloating and prodding and basically laughing at someones misfortune, then I think you need to have a think about what kind of person you are... you seem to have a playful side.. but you also seem to have an imature side..   you know its all fun and games but you are the only person that has responsability for how you behave no one else... and shits and giggles aside, man trust me when I say that trollin and busting balls is all very good... but being a decent stand up guy is a better trait to have , and it will serve you and your reality and experience of life to basically have more... so if you are not a paid employee, then basically , troll away.. do  but know something.. everytime I see your posts they just make me wonder about you.. not Bitcoin.  Basically shits and giggles aside... I think we should all remember what the principles behind crypto are and if you do not understand them, then you have no place... none on this forum, because you are just here to cause annoyance and distress to others... way to be rememberd in life .. honestly.

the people that have been stuffing the average joe , all around the world for a very long time, are the ones this energy should be pointed towards... I do not know about you, but I used to work for a very elite banking firm, but I also come from a rough backgorund, and I know people I know families that got destroyed after 2008,  people that lost fucking everything, as in lost everything , then a suicide and then it was all really lost...   I know who this energy should be targeted towards I know what is happening in the world today, I see the largest ponzi mass transfer of wealth ever in history happening right now, across the globe, and not a Bitcoin in sight... seriously.. I have not ignored you until now... and fun is fun... but if you cannot see this... and you do not know what side you should be on, then frankly I am going to give up  because you offer nothing else but spite and gloating and shit shit shit.. then thats fine but if you are not part of the solution... then you are part of the probelm.. which is sad because that is a choice that you are making.. and for all I can see for what  shits and giggles you love ripple but hate Bitcoin... oh right well if you actually think that way, then why not support Bitcoin and suport Ripple , because if you think Bitcoin going up in flames is going to help Ripple then you are daft..  this is what I am trying to get at.. all this energy, all this time, and you point it towards something you want to see fail.. I cannot understand why a decent rational human would do such a thing... if I do not like classical music, guess what  I do not listen to it... but I not make a point of going onto "I love classical music forum" and try to shit on everyones parade, honestly, I cannot think why  or what would make a person do such a thing even if you felt that people on there are so full of it...   so take this how you will Fonzie.. its up to you.. I am being an open person to you, so take it as you want... but there is another way... you know one that involves communication and understanding and honesty and it is was way way more benificial to the entire planet, when humans go down that path..  I do not know you and I am not judging you, just saying.

An I wrote you that poem and everything bro... so troll away , I would not ever want you to change... but you know.. as a gift from me to you... find a path that is creative, and coperative and helps and gives to others.. that is actually where all of the wealth in the world lives.

My two ripples worth for you.

oh and

CHOOO CHOOOO MF'r!!!!1

drug

Ok thats good news but we´re still going down. Question is, will gox be ever able to fix it? If they go insolvent then hard times will come and this will not be the bottom.

Thanks for the tips of alternative chart sites, but those I have checked show the price at MtGOX by default, and I can't figure out how to change that.  Do I have to subscribe?

When bulls make fun of bears, then it's all good. But when bears start making fun of bulls, then everyone will get touchy and offended real quick.
Bulls seem to be really sensitive.

Gox is shit we know this. But they are the biggest. They have over 1 million customers. And if they lose trust in BTC and the exchanges, who will push the price up again?

I don't want to fight you. Calm down, everything is fine.

You have to believe Gox is motivated to fix this problem soon.

.6% of $900 is much better than .6% of $375

Finally a freefall, means its time to soon

It has, it's just that nobody ever cared about reading it cause of BTC being a choochoo 2 the fucking moon for months.

Now, we passed the $400 mark, when will we see this magical $500 thingy coming in sight.

This forum has one of the most lenient spam/troll/idiot tolerance levels I've ever seen.

Mah87, for example, appears to have around 400 posts of nothing more than "BTC crashing buy Ripple!!!"

We also have a nice ignore button so all I get from Mah87 is this user is ignored.

From now on, who actually quotes the idiot, get's ignored aswell. 

I will be happy, and count it as a success, if bitcoin becomes a viable and attractive alternative to credit cards for legal international payments via internet.

I agree that "legal" is not "moral" and often opposite to it.

But I am not a libertarian -- I believe that government, laws, taxes, etc. are necessary, we must fight to improve them, not to abolish them.

So what I meant is: if bitcoin will only (or mostly) be used for illegal activities, I wiill not consider it as being a success.

Not that I think that to be very likely, though. Given Silk Road and all that, I would say that bitcoin is worse than banks for those purposes...

it's a hoax isn't it?

That was the common belief before China showed how easily it can be done.

I do not see how the blockchain could be maintained if the US government decided to stop Bitcoin.

How to lose half a million dollars IOUs instantly.

It's a huge loss, however you cut it.

Why are people trading on Gox? You can't withdraw fiat, you can't withdraw bitcoins. All you can do is trade and lose all your funds to fees.

That's an awful lot of stupid people with an awful lot of money.

This week has demonstrated how one man, who owns a badly run exchange but has a good PR team, can do massive damage to BTC.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

I do agree after reading some of the posts here. Not as bad as the Trollbox at BTC-e, but still... I think this is just a little bump on the road. Everyone should chill, and wait. Holding!!

I find it disturbing to think that criminals with these characteristics are becoming wealthy and powerful through bitcoin.  It makes me worried about the future of human life.

This is going to be a huge loss for bitcoin holders when Mtgox goes under

It's hard to change habbits habits. Gox is engraved in genes of bitcoiners morons - at least the ones that have +1k btc stash will eventually have nothing.

All in all, it was probably pretty idiotic to value goxUSD 4-5x higher than mtgoxBTC for the sole reason of having a slightly easier time to sue, regardless of how their solvency stands.

I forgot to mention one thing: MtGox has earned over 6k BTC the past two weeks. Assuming they lost an amount of user deposits, then their liabilities keep shrinking over time as long as people trade maniacally on high volume. Pretty funny.

All this fiasco will likely cost them in the long run is market share.

Why is there so much tolerance to dishonesty in the bitcoin community?

Does it have something to do with the libertarian philosophy, in some broad sense of the term? Perhaps those loyal clients think, "The guy is not a scammer, because anyone who lost money to his scam is stupid, and stupid people deserve to lose their money"?

+1  

Exactly. MtGox is either criminal, or extraordinarily incompetent.


Past history points towards the latter.

140 

Indeed, bitcoin trading is still wild west territory...

But, if you know that the law will not help you, you should care a lot more about the history of your banker, shouldn't you?

Perhaps you mean that most bitcoin investors don't know that the law will not help them?

gosh, you are never tired right. look at this chart and explain to me how bullish this looks to you (4h chart BTW)



now look to this chart, this will explain to you how traders change their postions from bearish to bullish and make some profit (1h chart BTW)



and look at this (3d chart BTW)



what is Hard to understand here ? there is nothing personal when tracking the price and try to make some profit of it, you are the only one taking things personally here.

that indicator is called MACD and no you don't have to wait for the cross over, because the cross can be predicted before it happens, when the 12 period AMA is above the 26 period AMA you sell and vice versa, of course this doesn't work all the time otherwise it would be so easy, this is why I said trading is an art, and I am not implying that I am a good trader, I've been ignorant so many times and I had bad calls so many times, but my average is positive...

and BTW I don't trade daily, I wait for occasions when I think it is safe and clear for some profit, my post was just a reminder that this is the speculation thread, no need to attack other people, I saw him attacking other members and calling their moms names (only a teenagers does that)...... so you are missing my point here

Bitcoin and I cashed some profits to be honest...

No coins at all. Fail.

Looks like you're in this game since 2011. If you have less than 4 digits of coins to your name, somewhere down the road you screwed up.

Hey do any of the old timers on this board know how long this gox shit will go on?

days, weeks, months or years?

It's a gauge of sentiment up to Monday morning as usual on the assumption that there are either news from Mark or fiat deposits rolling in Monday.

Like that comparison. Hadn't thought of that one.

Wall observer... nobody say something about these big ask walls?

Yea, manipulation to buy even more cheap coins. Nothing more, these coins really are not for sale.

Looks like a bit of FUD elsewhere on this forum might have sparked this mini Gox flash-crash.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=483416.msg5322347#msg5322347

Volume doesn't say so. Pulled.

Not that I have seen since - saw that yesterday - and I am pretty convinced from having read that thread it is indeed Greg Maxwell - he basically said they still haven't fixed it, and he wasn't at all convinced they were even close to doing it.

whats up at stamp?

You really are a massive buffoon...

Hey Doc...  I am done with the Fonz

People should announce before they move the market more than 50% 

I have BTC there. To fail at taking advantage of the volatility  
Really, more than 200% instant profits I can take.

Is anyone else struck by the irony that the community has been demanding Mark's resignation for weeks now, but when he actually resigns the market responds with a 50% drop?

Is that accurate, or is there some part I'm missing here?

He's always got an out via BitcoinBuilder.

Look, everyone are buying that big wall. Go and buy those "cheap coins" quickly!
Doesn't mater that this buying pressure just came out of thin air and no one was interested in buying 580$ coins before that big wall ;-)

Smart traders want profit. There are no smart buyers with bitcoin. If someone buys bitcoins without the intention to trade, then that one sadly can't be smart.

scared the shit out of everyone.

Maybe magicaltux is pissed at bitcoin and selling his stash

The current problem with the BItcoin price is that too few people hold too many coins. (Satoshi has 1 million, FBI has 100K, etc.)
Once more people hold less coins, the price will go up.

If so, will Mt. Gox shut down sending Bitcoin to the moon (or the floor)?

Gox twitter account just deleted all of their tweets  

https://twitter.com/MtGox

This is the first serious indication there is foul play going on... (not saying there is any, it's just strange...)

To me, it seems common sense, that bitcoin will be obsolete after new developments in coming years, and with that, the units will lose value.
So, I consider someone a fool, if one doesn't think that one has to sell their coins. To me it seems the same, as if people would have told that "Spacewar!" will be the computer game that will be played by everyone for several decades.
I'm quite certain that bitcoin has a relatively short lifespan, but it does introduce the idea of open sourced monetary systems, and this will be placed high in history books.

Weren't there other signs:

* The price 10% over other exchanges

* The replaying of transactions during the December/2013 crash

So where are those bulls now who were insulting last night while I was making perfect predictions? Fess up.

whatever the case let's not forget Gox is the victim here. They are the victim of their own success!

How about Karples just makes a clear statement already.

Without knowing the guy personally, what I've seen so far indicates he's got some issues admitting he was wrong/made a mistake or plain is out of his depth technically trying to solve something. Hence, I expect this to drag on for a while still.

   Lack of remorse or guilt
    Emotionally shallow
    Callous/lack of empathy
    Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Stamp below BTCe? What is this sorcery?

Blockchain is down

http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/blockchain.info.html

Not sure if 2011 or 2013. Or worse than 2011.

That is one of the two disasters that befell the bitcoin project, and will kill it.

I hope people are under no illusion that other exchanges are any more safe.

Is this what it felt like in the 2011 crash or no where near it?

Can anyone draw any parallels to the current sentiment?

A shitload of people just learned that.

More dumps to come

Oh the volume! so many people trading with their play bitcoins, how does this all play out!!!?

Amazing. Gox is finally gone and it still manages to crash Bitcoin.

I don't think we're going below $400.

That probably means we are.

Shit ;|

Just think 2 months ago when btc was trading at $1000 and all the tiger direct, overstock, etc. was happening (now there is even more adoption than then).  If someone told you... in 2 months from now, you'll be able to buy at $400/btc on bitstamp, but DONT DO IT, because mtgox will be closed.  What would you think?

How many coins would you have had if you sold and rebought instead?

The possible complication is if the community gets stuck in a half-way state, with almost equal mining power on each side.  Then there may be two blockchains, lots of orphaned blocks and branches, etc.. 

You don't want to know about that possibility; just pray that it does not happen, and, if it does, just stop issuing transaction until the impasse gets resolved as above.  Even after the critical block, all the unspent coins that were created before that block will remain there, no matter what happens. 

The only power and the only votes that count are those of the miners.

Pools aren't miners. Meh.

Prediction: in 5-10 days price will spike another few dollars and we all come on this thread, first talk about how we are going to the moon, and then vigorously discus block size limit, once again i'm going to lose my shit  and post something like this.

Sure, but miners won't publish blocks that they think will be rejected by the economic majority, regardless of the outcome of any BIP voting.  They'd be mining worthless coins. 

Whoever is running this psyops divide-and-conquer blocksize consensus attack has one of two probable motives:

1) Want Bitcoin to crash, price crashes with it, they buy up BTC for pennies and then run a counter psyops campaign to get all the core devs to group hug.

2) Want bitcoin to crash so they can introduce a competing altcoin that they've premined or have some other way of profiting from, perhaps just from being early adopters.

Bitcoin's going to crash if the blocksize isn't raised.  In the event of an economic catastrophe, nobody will care about xaction fees. they will stampede using Bitcoin as an escape from FIAT hell until the exit gets jammed with bodies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

Why not? A one world currency that is public and traceable? Isn't this what they've always wanted?

I bought 0.00000000 BTC when I first learned abot bitcoin -- in nov/2013, when the price was ~1200$.  So, even though my investment was fairly modest, and (as you already know) I have been able to double my holdings every day since then, I am still quite disappointed by the loss of almost 70% of the money that I put into this coin.

That is the stated Blocksrteam/small-blockian view: bitcoin should be used only for large-value settlements between institutions, like the Lightning network hubs

-- not for ordinary e-purchases by ordinary citizens.

i'll be fine.

That's the first time I ever used the ignore feature

Holliday where have you been?

Only to fund ISIS and buy child porn. Otherwise, not so much

Yeah, Bitfinex wall grew from 1.5k to 4.5k, then shrank back. But it was enough to make me close my long at a tiny loss (slippage and fees).
Let someone else attack that wall with force, then maybe I'll take a little bite too. I was expecting a little pump, but with low volume a 4.5k ask wall should hold.

Someone has huge ask-wall (stairs) @ Finex 

fucking governments...

dude i really miss shrooms

also, where is magicmexican with his dinosaur charts? and shehadMANhands, and Holliday. good to see jimbo still around.

BTC5K is a lot of coins to be intimidating with. Can't imagine an idiot handling $3.7MM

Where are there a few 'clever people' controlling the entire order book and changing it every day? It should have many thousands of unconnected actors controlling it and it should be moving organically like gox did. This is supposed to be a world currency, not a game.

i think the goal is and always will be to get bitcoin to be able to process all of the worlds TX.

right now poeple have gotten use to the idea that bitcoin will never be able to do that.
when LN comes and changes the game, we will be able to say that "yes bitcoin CAN potentially take over the world."

i agree only LN can achieve this, but i disagree that blocksize can stay at 1MB or that 2MB would have any meaningful centralizing effect. it should have been bumped up already and its sad you small blockers cant see that.

For the love of bitcoin, and all it stands for, we MUST ALL AGREE the fallowing statement is completely INSANE

" Hard forks are evil, and only core dev knows what best for bitcoin. "

" HF are not to be feared, other dev's opinion like the BU devs should also be considered "

is more reasonable, agreed?

IDK, i think most poeple believe HF are evil and that other devs are amateurs.
things like classic being declared an altcoin and an attempt at a "hostile take over", and poeple like Trace Mayer saying other devs are amateurs, lead me to this conclusion.

BU might be less taxing on your bandwidth, maybe you made the wrong choice?

You couldn't pay me to send Bitfinex any amount of bitcoin or dollars.

Well, he's deposited that many coins at Finex so... yeah.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4vupa6/p2shinfo_shows_movement_out_of_multisig_wallets/d61ro84?context=1

what does everyone make of this?

'Zane, this is many times larger than the block reward for the duration of time that has elapsed. Have you considered getting a list of transactions to blacklist and getting miners to reorg the theft? The window of time for that hasn't closed.
(If this happened in the last day, then that's 12.5*144 blocks = 1,800 BTC in subsidy. That's <2% of the hack.)'

from a core developer.

Like the customers themselves were responsible.

Altho, there shouldn't be arbitrary gradations of fucked, based on random chance.

Perhaps Bitfinex can employ the vacuous platitudes defense, are you available?

Once again, my heart goes out to all those who lost coins at Finex

Then why would you have sympathy for hodlers who knew a hack was inevitable and therefore the value of their hodlings would decrease temporarily?

As much as I wanted to say "I told you so" after repeatedly posting about the stupidity of keeping coins or even fiat on hackable internet exchanges and the even more mind-numbingly foolish practice of margin trading in something as easily manipulable as Bitcoin, I figured the fools who lost coins had suffered enough.

Some of these idiots made snide comments about my paying a premium to buy my coins from "vending machines", as if buying fiat from their precious bank ATMs was any different.

I tried to explain that the reasonably small extra fee over the cost of fiat transfers and exchange commissions was a small price to pay for the convenience, speed, anonymity, and most importantly security of buying from local BTC ATMs. I learned a 50BTC lesson from MtGox. No more internet exposure for any of my bitcoins ever again. My private keys are private.

The coins I bought yesterday from a fully anonymous ATM went into a paper wallet I generated on a computer and printer that had never been connected to the internet and were incapable of being connected or hacked (no wifi, bluetooth nor NIC cable).

Call me paranoid if you want but at my age I prefer to call it being prudent. Seems in this case I was right.

Damn now you've made me sound like I'm smugly saying "I told you so" even though I didn't want to.  
_______

As for all of us bearing the cost of other people's stupidity, I figure it's just temporary and as my morning post pointed out, we're already back to where we might have been considering the previous couple of days' price decline.

I didn't see it as a loss in the fiat price of my coins, I saw it as a buying opportunity. What's that old saw about making lemonade out of life's lemons?

Since Bitfinex knows all of the attacker's addresses, couldn't they try to convince the top pool's operators to blacklist them? Wouldn't that be one of the "advantages" of ultra centralized mining?

*Edit: This could basically set a precedent for all the black listed transaction to be put under scrutiny and surveillance. Hence the coins to be worthless and 100% probably confiscated in a unknown future transaction.

How are they planning to buy 75k coins off the market without insta-mooning the price (OTC?)? Who's gonna sell them all of those coins at ~$600?
Also how will they liquidate 36% of LTC ETC and ETH without tanking their price accordingly?

but if bitgo auto signs every time BFX signs.... then all you really need is BFX keys and you can move the coins.

is this infact the reality of what was going on with this "shared key model." ? idk.. idk shit...

So far sounds to me like it's an implementation error. BFX forgot to check the "Limit maximum daily withdrawals to 5%" checkbox during account set up with BitGone 

It's because I was under the impression the boxes (addresses) were all drained individually. What kind of daily withdrawal limit woulda prevented that?

Jeesh, for people who seem to value outside-the-box thinking, you guys are thinking smack-dab inside the box.
BitGo implementation was used so that BFX could continue p2p lending (needed for leverage trading), without having to commingle the customer funds in a wallet it controlled (reason for the CFTC fine they paid).

So BitGo did exactly what was asked of it, allowing BFX to keep doing what it was already doing, without the need to become a licensed futures exchange.

"Leverage is a loan that is provided to an investor by the broker that is handling his or her forex account. When an investor decides to invest in the forex market, he or she must first open up a margin account with a broker."

Bitfinex needs to be [a de facto] broker, without having the corresponding license. This is made possible by having p2p lending, but without the central (cold) wallet under BFX control like the good old times (because CFTC). Problem: neither Investor Bob, nor Lenders Alice [through] Zack, are a licensed broker. And yet the full amount of this "p2p loan" must be readily accessible by BFX (to enter and close positions).
Wat do? (This needs to happen in real time, not "in a bit, once we had time to run it past the suits upstairs" because real time trade engine.)

Read more: How does leverage work in the forex market? | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/forexleverage.asp#ixzz4Gfag38YP
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

P.S. " proven security methods" for this sort of thing involve third party security audits (which BFX refused), and a license (so don't have to exploit insecure but technically compliant 2-of-3 implementation).

While the numbers are tallied " internally or on paper," who actually holds the funds? Whose wallets?
How would you do it? Walk me through.

Dark pools is scam. There is no reason to buy BTC and don't want price to go up after your purchase, unless you're a BTC enemy.

Flawed logic, for you'll not buy now but wait next week and get the most for your money.

still, he's a complete twat for not paying tax.

The train is full. You can get on this train if you pay more and we'll pull someone off the train. They'll have to wait for another train, or pay more than you offer.

With that sort of attitude, users will just continue to use banks and credit cards. They don't bump users transactions.

There should be 100m people using bitcoin right now.

Holliday, seriously?

I'm pretty sure Satoshi said something about scaling to Visa levels of transactions.

here - have a vote on the issue:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1634765.msg16440373#msg16440373

where is everyone?

adam? holliday? jaytoronto? shrooms? blitz? richie t? magic mexican?

16000 unconfirmed tx lol

What if you're trade altcoins against btc but never sell the btc. Do you pay taxes even if you haven't sold,  and how do you base the value of the btc.

It seems fairly obvious to me that Adam's been locked out because he's a shameless big-blocker. I miss the days when there was more than one technology opinion allowed on this discussed forum :/

That's the catch with censorship.

I can confirm that I also had two posts discussing segwit deleted from this thread on the 25th.  I wasn't even discouraging it, just trying to explain some of the opinions I've heard over on that other forum.  We will never be able to reach consensus if discussion is not allowed.

I have tried to keep an equal and impartial moderation stance (regardless of my views) as much as possible. Keep in mind that I'm not the only moderator who can delete posts here (before someone jumps to any conclusion with specific examples).

i don't understand what she's supposed to represent in terms on bitcoin. she certainly seems to make regular appearances here for some reason.

i dont think its fake. its 1000$ there are supposed to be some sell-orders there.

with whom you could trust your life?

If you want to make America great again, open up Ellis Island again. It's what made America great in the first place.

Huobi or OKcoin getting hacked.

Normal service has been resumed at Finex!

How silly of us. Surely this is going to $0.

I bet he dumps it all out of spite

Do you run a node? Do you ever stream video content? Are you aware that hypothetical 100MB blocks are no more resource intensive than SD video content?

do you have 200 peers?

do you feel its cool that some peers come online download 1440blocks do 1 TX and go offline for 10 days , is that what you mean by decentralization?

if we assume a government has "banned bitcoin traffic" ( not sure how feasible that is )
then we should limit blocksize such that we can smuggle blocks in and out of that country?
we need to keep blocksize such that it can be carried on some hypothetical "internet de la resistance"

idk... sounds nutty.

i think you have reason to want small blocks, but you have no good reason to not allow the network of nodes to determine what "small" is.
BU effectively limits block size to whatever the vast majority of nodes consider acceptable, and allows for nodes to continue to protest bigger block while staying synced and not forked.
let it go, you can't impose your view of bitcoin onto everyone else even if you believe "its for there own good"

you should however keep running core if you like the idea of segwit and static blocksize.

actually it would be interesting  to see a state actor implement a fractional reserve type coin

Of course - but with a visible blockchain - you can see where they are and they can't lend them out twice which is what they currently do. It's why they want their own blockchain, they can't get away with as much.

EDIT: with fiat as it stands you put $100 in, they lend $3000 out. THAT is fractional reserve

I'm actually quite excited to see what China's trade volume will be like when fees are introduced on the 24th.

Now I also am not advocating anarchy

If the state has the power to take everything from you, I'm not sure how useful a bitcoin brain wallet is gonna be while you're hammering rocks in the gulag.

What methods?

Yes, unless enough other members of your family get imprisoned to reveal the private key. If hammering rocks in the gulag/torture is enough to make you reveal a private key, it's probably also enough to make you reveal which members of your family hold a shared secret.

There is money tied up in accounts and regulations that cannot buy bitcoin directly, but could buy a bitcoin ETF.

Looks like honey badger doesn't give a damn.

Bitcoin isn't even fungible and all transactions are traced for fucks sake.

Like I said before, government is going to create a fixed address alias system wrapper that goes around bitcoin and force you to use it or be considered a launderer.

Why would they be?  Mixers and things like monero (just a built in mixer on-chain) aren't illegal...yet.  There will come a time when using a mixer will be a conviction for laundering by default and all transactions will be to and from fixed address alias systems.  Everything outside of that will be considered criminal.

Bitcoin does not function if made illegal.

First off, the network traffic is not obfuscated.

Second, the mining pools are too huge of an attack vector.

Third, it's usage would be barter only in the black market.

Unless bitcoin captured every transaction from the entire drug market on earth it's market cap would be tiny.

So basically a small market cap with an insecure chain.  If you outlaw gold it does not incur a penalty on gold's security; it does for bitcoin.  As for mining the actual coins, it would be even less decentralized than it is now, or maybe entirely controlled by one single guy.  

You can't mine it with commodity hardware so all mining would be controlled by some shady guy in the backstreets of Shanghai.  It would be like having to visit the Mogwai dealer in gremlins in order to mine.  In fact, it's already basically like that in the first place.

I opened up my node to inbound connections last week.

Perhaps. For the last several years, however, I've hardly noticed the presence. Typically fully opened, sometimes outbound only, sometimes running multiple nodes (production, development, test, core, classic, xt, bu)- not an issue. If it ever gets to be a strain, I'll throttle back from fully promiscuous (at the moment, I have 63 inbound connections) to something lower.

IOW: I can keep it up longer than you can hold your breath. Certainly long enough to resolve the current scaling solution impasse, AAR.

I'm not sure your concept of "gimped" makes any sense.

20 inbound connections is enough to broadcast to the entire network and then some in 3 hops.

Why is it "gimped" to not completely saturate your uplink 24/7 without any QoS measures in place?