That would be doing me a favour, so long as it happens BEFORE I buy back in with my half a penny of course!!

Can everyone drop their prices to 1¢ please?  I haven't got all night, I need cheap bitcoins before bedtime if that's okay, thanks  

How far down will it go, or is it already there?

(I want to get lucky here, hence moving on from my thirteenth post on this forum)

I hope you're right, I've not got much cash left so I can afford to wait and see.  The ones I bought higher will make a profit when it comes back up anyway as I didn't buy them at the top.  Finding the balance between being too brave or too cautious is always tricky, especially without a crystal BTCall. It's always easy to be wise afterwards of course, as we all know.

It can take nearly two days to get your money into Mt.Gox, and that's sending it from a British bank, I have no idea how long it takes to get it through from a Chinese bank.  My money didn't arrive in my Mt.Gox account until the close of business in Japan the following day.  Obviously although it'll be nice if prices skyrocket that doesn't mean that it'll definitely happen - or that it won't of course.  I'm just going to wait and see, that's all I can do anyway but my funds are now mostly in BTC so if it does, then me and my half a satoshi are ready for it!

Which way it'll go now then?  Up or down?  How far?  Do Amazon sell crystal BTCalls?  

I definitely need one, this trading in reverse I keep doing is getting tedious....   

4000BTC wall appeared at $113, maybe that'll push it down.

Aaand it's back!!  (Unless Mt.Gox is lagging again of course!)

It keeps appearing and disappearing, someone's got a bad case of indecision today.

Gone again!

The trouble with charts like that is that they're fractal patterns, which as you say look similar at any level of zoom, much like a coastline does.  It's easy to see patterns that aren't really there, or to dismiss ones which are.

I agree, for the same reasons maybe I should have left my daughter waiting outside the school!

Where's Rpietila the bitcoin baron wall demolisher when you need him?

Sleep?  I remember that, wasn't that the thing I used to do before I discovered Bitcoins?

Good luck with that, this is sort of situation that I keep finding myself in too.  What I really need is tomorrow's charts, then I'd make a lot more money of course.

An infinite supply of fiat would very handy right now, what with all the final demands for money that keep getting posted through my letterbox!   

On the other hand if you've built it up from nothing and made a living out of it for a while and then this happened then it's not so bad, after all you've only really lost the small sum that you started with and some of your time.  And it it does go well then it's got to be better than working in a factory for minimum wage.  There's not much to lose by trying anyway, better to try and possibly fail than to never try at all.

+1

It's not like there's much happening anyway, we'll all be on topic as soon as there is

So, returning to the topic of this thread, which way will it go next, up or down?

How about $5000 on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and $1 on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, with a flat $2500 on Sunday so that we can have a day off?

Maybe then I could finally make some money - and see the outside world

Believe it or not I wasn't being completely serious there

I know you know, lol.  Imprisoned by my own computer, who would have expected that?

Bitcoinity's tracker seems to be down...

1000BTC wall appeared at 114.279

And they've run away!

Bitcoinity is back up and running

Me too, I appreciate everyone's insights and information on this thread, that's why I'm here.  That and the fact that you're all such fun to hang out with too of course!

It looks like things might begin to move now - I hope so as this is getting tedious

I suppose this wasn't entirely accurate

I like it!  Coinageddon time and my daughter's bedtime are the same, perhaps it's all really part of a fiendish plan of hers to take over the world!

Has everyone gone?  Is it just me and ChartBuddy here now? 

Does us trying to refresh the Mt.Gox web page repeatedly to get back in also count as a DDOS attack?

Maybe their server is still trying to process the orders that were entered into it before it went down

+1
It works, thanks

Mt.Gox being DDos'd again?

+1, but unfortunately it seems people are getting used to it so aren't prepared to sell me half priced coins 

Yep

It seems to be back up, but for how long?

It's worse than Zimbabwe's economy - you should try living here!

ClarkMoody tracker seems to be down, maybe it got bored and fell asleep.  Not much happening right now anyway.  Bitcoinity is still working though

Our old friend ChartBuddy's still awake it seems

MtGox seems to be down again.  Ddos?

That's true

So where does my huge stash of 3.2BTC fit into this equation?  Do I get invited to the next conference or do I need to make a couple more first?

That could be a very good earner, I'll take it!  (the job AND the laptop?)

Brilliant!  Litecoin it must be then, lol

At least it's not boring any more!

+1    

Of course though it doesn't matter whether or not we believe this Dwolla story, what matters is whether or not everyone else does, and what they do as a result.

+4 from me too!

Now I'm feeling better about the way that MtGox lag made my bearish market order sell for $111, that and the fact that this is what I paid for them in the first place

Well I will be if I don't miss the bottom of this crash anyway

You need to brush your hair Chartbuddy, you're looking a bit scruffy

Is this what you meant?

I wonder how this will affect the prices when Europe wakes up?

Anything the US government does our scumbag UK government just has to copy   

You never know, especially considering how half of Western Europe and the USA are all still tucked up in bed - except for those of us who're sitting at our computers, bleary eyed and wired on coffee (or something stronger).  A lot of people haven't had time to react to this news/non news story yet.

This is bitcoin, logic doesn't apply so anything could happen of course!

This price could easily collapse again, last time there was massive support for the $119 price which got crushed, this time there's very little in the way of bids holding this price up.  It wouldn't take a huge amount of sales to knock it all the way back down again.

As always seems to happen I set my bid price a tiny bit too low for this rally, and missed my opportunity to do anything about it due to having to do the damned school run.  Sometimes I wonder just how flammable that school is, lol, they're always costing me money.

Fortunately I'm not dealing with enough money to worry about it that much, at least I haven't lost anything I suppose, other than an opportunity.

Maybe that's the problem, perhaps if my computer didn't have a 386 processor and Windows 3.1 then I'd be able to keep up with the trading.....

I love that game  

I really wish I hadn't decided that getting up early was better than sleeping in all day yesterday

Bitcoin might be a currency but since it's only numbers in a computer and not a physical object can it even be said to exist?  Anyway, surely it wouldn't be a crime for someone in the US to pay someone else in Euros or Stirling if they were both happy about it.  If the US government start using a clause like that then it's obviously only because they're miffed about not getting to tax it, but they'd probably use some BS excuse like counter-terrorism, protecting kids, etc like they always do for things they don't like.

Besides which, contrary to popular opinion the US is not the whole planet

7.28am in New York.  Some will have reacted to this news last night but a lot of others will have gone to bed before the news broke.  How significant the news is doesn't matter, what matters is how significant people think it is and how they react to it.

+1

Of course though if you declare seashells legal tender then you'd have a serious inflation problem due to their availability.  This would make it necessary to pump so much acidic industrial waste into the sea that they all dissolve, thus re-valuing your currency.

This is true, it's also one of the reasons that we like bitcoins!

Maybe something will happen in the market soon, then we'll all be too busy with that to spend time insulting each other

That would be handy, so long as it comes back up afterwards, and also if for a change it doesn't happen whilst I'm out picking up my daughter from school.  I'm really getting to hate that school.

It wouldn't surprise me if these ddos attacks were being set up by the US government or the banks, who are much the same thing anyway

Tin foil hat on standby....

I've had it take a couple of hours to transfer BTC from Mt.Gox (to another MtGox account) before now, and that's when nobody was attacking their servers

I think he was out having a beer with the lads last night, he's probably still got a hangover

+2

That picture of him with the Rolls Royce that someone photoshopped and coloured pink now makes me think of him as Parker (or Lady Penelope?) from Thunderbirds

+1  He's amusing, that's for sure.  He might be a fruitcake but good luck to him anyway

It's hard not to have a laugh at the expense of someone as overtly eccentric as that, but I'd rather not see anyone lose the plot or get ripped off.  Hopefully in time he'll be okay

+1

He's right Rpitila, take that break and enjoy the peace away from here, that way you'll be back on form in no time, we all need a change of scene sometimes but that's not always as obvious to us when we're in the middle of a situation as it is when looking from outside.  Take it easy for a few days and you'll soon be back to your old self again.  I look forwards to reading your continuing adventures when you return.

Anyway, back on topic....  I wonder if this is now a return to the stability that we've had over the last few days, or is it the calm before the storm, as seems to be the norm with BTC?

The bids and the asks are very close together, I suppose that a lot of cash/BTC needs to change hands for the price to move significantly in either direction.

Don't forget that there's a lot more money on this planet than just US dollars alone

Come on bulls, you only have to spend $25,000,000 to get it to $1100 per BTC!

Maybe I should do it, hang on whilst I see how much change is down the back of my sofa....

Damn, only £2.70 down there, not enough.  At least I buy get a beer or two now though

+1

Their manipulation of the BTC market is annoying too.  That is on topic, after all isn't this the wall movement tracker thread?  It's their walls that are messing everything up.  If more money does come into BTC then even they won't be able to afford to do that any more, which will let BTC reflect its true value and can only be a good thing.  That is of course until the scumbag banks join in with even bigger walls of course.

No problem.  Anyway, it's the weekend and there's not much happening here, so that's a good idea, enjoy yourself!  Anyway, to remain on topic it seems to have consolidated at around $123 - $124 for now, I'll keep an eye in it myself though in case something exciting does happen (partly because it's going to rain here, the beach is miles away and the clutch has gone on my car so there's nothing else to do anyway).  Maybe the bulls will go crazy later, make the price rocket and buy me a new car - you never know, hey?  Have fun on the beach!  If the prices get any more boring and stable today then I'm going to have to wash the dishes for excitement.

Often when trading is slow this thread descends into a petty flame war, it's very boring.

I'm not saying that the thread itself is boring, just that pointless flame wars can be.  (I admit that sometimes they are amusing).  I'm here to try to gain some insight into trading better as opposed to an insight into how some people don't like other people, that I couldn't care less about.  Different people have different views, which is to be expected but let's keep it (reasonably) polite, hey?

What I do like is reading other people's analysis of the BTC situation, that's what I'm here for.  I try to take in what everyone is saying and then draw my own conclusions about it, rather than following what's written in a sheeplike way.  If someone says that the price is crashing and I sell out, but it goes up then that's not their fault as they were just giving their opinion - it's my fault as it would be my own decision to have sold at that point.  There always seems to be people saying opposite things, with the unpredictability of BTC that's to be expected but all views and charts are welcome information so far as I'm concerned.

You have the right to disagree, all I'm suggesting is that we get on with discussing the topic of this forum rather than bitching at each other, there might not be any arguing going on now but there has been over the last few days.  However, I haven't noticed you doing this with anyone so please understand that I wasn't referring to you, nor am I going to point the finger at anyone else either.

The people who actually were arguing don't even seem to be here any more, which means there's no point us discussing it so let's move on...

Anyway, as I said, let's get back on topic here.  Having said that things are moving so slowly that there isn't much to say anyway, it just seems to be mostly bots swapping satosis at the moment.  Hopefully things will pick up a bit later, but it's the weekend so maybe not.  Maybe by Monday the trader bots will have gone insane and made multimillionaires of us all, hey?

Can we stop discussing this now please?  It's all been said already

Buy hookers?  I thought the whole idea was to rent them!  If you buy them then they're called wives or girlfriends

I'd hate to know how badly 720 hookers, wives, girlfriends or concubines could nag you if they all started up at once.

+1  Both educational and also entertaining too!

Who is this God chap anyway?  Is he a bitcoin supernode?

More to the point, will we see an assault on $125 today?

For bitcoin to really go up it needs normal people to regularly see things offered for sale in BTC, such as when they're shopping on Amazon or their local supermarket website, or even in the supermarket itself.  It also needs to be as easy to buy things with as normal money, or at least as easy as paying with a debit card.  Bitcoin conferences may be a good thing but the existence of bitcoins isn't news to those who attend them, even now if you stop people in the street and ask what they know of bitcoins most will say they've never heard of them.  If the average Joe had £20 worth of bitcoins that'd be a huge increase in the amount of fiat invested in BTC.

Envelopes full of cash?  I'll have some if you're offering, lol.  Maybe I should become an MP, there's plenty of brown envelopes stuffed full of money to be had that way.

+1

If only there was some buying and selling to speculate about....

Bitcoinity is down, and MtGox is behaving a bit strangely too.  Maybe someone's ddossing them out of boredom

Not here though and I've tried two machines.  I'm in the UK.  I suppose it could be a problem with my ISP but everything else is working okay.  MtGox isn't loading the buy and sell boxes on the trade tab properly and it's fairly unresponsive, although it does sort it out after a while.

EDIT:  It all seems okay again now

Edit:  For some reason my ISP is blocking Bitcoinity, the rest of the internet works and Bitcoinity is working for everyone else.  Typical

Hang on, I'm sure I've got a spare $24,250,000 around here somewhere.....

510BTC bid wall at $121 now moved to $122

528BTC wall moved back to $121 now

+1   On topic!

There's something odd going on with Clarkmoody, it keeps showing walls then showing them as missing when I refresh the page.  The question is of course, are they there or not?  Maybe it's due to lag between the US based Clarkmoody and the Japan based MtGox.  Bitcoinity tells a different story too.

Clarkmoody often fails to show my asks and bids too

A fake approx 450BTC wall keeps appearing at $121, then not being there as soon as I refresh the page.  Why is this, and is this still the wall observer thread?

Maybe the lack of a guy suffering from mania with a mountain of bitcoins to trade is partly why the market is so stable.  Ever since he went off to his conference the market has been fairly flat.

I did also wonder if the sudden $10 drop a few days ago that was caused by huge amount of bitcoins being sold at once was his missing coins as opposed to a reaction to the Dwolla story

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174620.180 (the last thing that was posted there)

I felt a bit sorry for him with the way things turned out for him.  He may be an oddball but nobody deserves to have 100,000BTC stolen, it's no wonder he cracked, that's about $12 million.  I'd flip out if I lost 100BTC.  That's assuming that it really was that much of course.  However, just when the Dwolla story broke someone dumped about 80,000BTC, I can't help wondering if that was his coins rather than the Dwolla story because they all got dropped in one go.  Apart from those coins that got suddenly dropped there was no crash, there just seemed to be a rush to buy the cheap coins, followed by a return to normal over the next few hours.  If it had been the Dwolla story I'd have expected the price to continue to fall for a bit longer than that.

Tin foil hat on standby

He said that at his 'supernode' conference he had a laptop with the info for 100,000BTC open on the screen stolen.  He'd been bragging on this forum for weeks about the conference and his wealth, maybe the wrong people read it and set him up

He wrote about it in his diary.  About halfway down page 9 you'll see that everything goes very badly wrong for him: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174620.160

It's also discussed in this thread, along with several people taking the piss out of him about it and him arguing back, then later on some of us discussing it in a more fair way

He started posting on this thread about what happened from around here, but in a rather cryptic way: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg2136346#msg2136346

I see what you're saying, I'm never sure whether he's talking about kBTC or BTC half the time.  He also tends to write 1000mBTC instead of 1BTC.  As you say, who knows what he means anyway?  Still, nobody should even be having a single satoshi stolen and at least from my perspective if not his a hundred grand in euros is still a lot to have pinched.

I also said in another post that I never know whether to believe anything he says anyway

It's 8.53am in New York, I wonder if the bulls there will be coming out to play today?

If Clarkmoody is correct then it would only take 6BTC to reach $123

333BTC at $122.2227, the market's being manipulated from both sides

It's a brand of anti-dandruff shampoo, maybe he's having a bath

Of course though conspiracy theories don't automatically become true just because they mention Bitcoins or Moon missions

Trading appears to have stopped, this seems suspicious

Edit:  One or two trades happening now, maybe everyone was just on a tea break

Bye bye $128 wall

Some of the low volume has to be because although the price is climbing it isn't fluctuating much, this means that with Mt Gox's commission there's little to gain by daytrading at the moment.

Edit:  Daytrading is risky right now too because you could easily sell, then get left behind and have to buy back for more than you sold for.

This ^^^^

Spot on, +1

You have to draw your own conclusions, other people can be completely wrong regardless of how much trading experience they have.  If you get it wrong then you don't end up angry with someone else, if you get it right then all the credit is yours too.

Anyway, whatever opinion someone is giving here you'll usually find that someone else is saying the opposite anyway.  What is useful to learn from is the methods that people use to reach those conclusions, such as the way that they analyse the charts.

Often I prefer to ignore this or other speculation threads and go it alone, this works out better a lot of the time because there's less 'noise' to cloud my judgement

The word 'noise' isn't meant as an insult by the way, I enjoy reading what everyone else has to say

It could be, it's only a $5 drop which would have seemed like nothing a few weeks ago, merely one of many bear traps on the way up.  I'm not saying that I know what is going to happen though so this isn't intended as FUD.

I missed the chance to sell at the top because I was cooking dinner for my daughter. (no surprise there, this sort of thing keeps happening).  However, I'm not going to panic and sell now, if I do that then everyone's bound to suddenly buy back in and leave me behind.  If I had fiat I'd be considering buying soon instead anyway.  I don't have enough BTC to have lost much more than the price of a couple of packets of cigarettes if it never goes back up so I'm not going to be jumping out of the window over it anyway, this isn't Wall Street.

Anyway, jumping out the window isn't as effective in a house as it is in a tower block, you just get bruises and grass stains on your clothes from the lawn, then you go back indoors and everyone laughs at your stupidity

Edit:  Come to think about it I wouldn't be losing anyway, just not gaining as much as I could have - these coins only cost me $122.89

Nice picture!  +1 for the art

ClarkMoody often seems to have missing entries for me too, especially important things like huge walls - and my own bids and asks

I read the other day that the stock exchange in London want to use lasers to speed up trading, maybe Mt Gox should follow suit and throw their 28k dial up modem out and get something better too.

Are you sure?  I thought I saw the 7k $126 wall get completely eaten away, including a tiny chunk of it by me

Maybe his wall was made of more than one ask, that would look the same as it all being bought if he was trying to cancel them all

Edit:  ClarkMoody seems to show about 7k being bought at that time though

Me too

The wall has gone, that's all that matters really

They're still saving up for a C64 to replace their ZX81

The bid wall's quite steep now and the ask wall is shallow.  It'd only take one bull with cash to throw around to shove the price right back up again, then everyone would follow and the trend would be reversed.  This market looks very easy to manipulate if you have enough cash.

The guy shoving the price down with the 7k wall yesterday could easily make a profit if he holds out until everyone drops their asks, then he can buy in a stack of cheap coins to make back more than that game cost him

Maybe their 28kbps dial up modem broke

Or maybe something like this

MtGox is back up

It's 9.12am in the US, I wonder how they'll react

Is Clarkmoody down for anyone else?

Well there's this tracker until it comes back online: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/

The order book is a bit awkward to read but it's a lot better than not having a clue what's happening

Clarkmoody tracker is back up again

+1

That's probably what it's like trading on the Russian BTC market

I ordered one a little while back, then I discovered how long people have been waiting and haven't ordered any more.  If I had confidence in them to deliver them within a reasonable timeframe then I'd be ordering them as quickly as I can afford to (occasionally with my budget) but I don't. Of course though if it does turn up before the difficulty rises so high that it's useless then that's good but I'll just have to wait and see.

I've been doing a little mining with my GTX580s but the only benefit there is that the heat they kick out saves me from buying gas to heat the living room, other than that I doubt that they break even so I've stopped now that summer's arriving - and it's nice and quiet in here for a change too!

Maybe I'd do better by just buying BTC with the money and studying how to trade more effectively instead

Someone's feeling bullish!

I meant whoever just bought 1500BTC

MtGox loses another payment method:

Statement Regarding Technocash Transfers
TOKYO - JAPAN - June 4th, 2013   After some deliberation and discussion with Technocash, an Australian service for Mt. Gox customer account funding and withdrawals, it has been decided that our customers in Australia will no longer be able to deposit and withdraw funds in AUD using Technocash starting June 15th, 2013.  We are working on alternatives for our Australian customers, but in the meantime please use other available methods such as international wire transfers, which are available in your customer accounts. Withdrawals via Technocash will be processed as long as we possibly can, and we will make our best effort to keep this method available.  We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and look forward to evolving with the vibrant Australian market.  
Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130604.html

Does anyone know why?  Is this linked to Liberty Reserve?  Will they ever post some good news?

Wouldn't a series of such stories potentially have a cumulative effect?  What if a major bank decided to refuse MtGox transactions too?

Tin foil hat and cheap coin collection tin on standby...

Free bitcoins!  Let me at 'em!

I haven't got a gif file but here's a music video about getting goxxed in the April crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ku1A5Ox8U

Maybe everything from the April crash onwards is just one huge bear trap and it'll be $10000 coins next week, lol!

Maybe I should have Bugatti on speed dial just in case

Gox ddos?

It seems to be working now but no trading on Clark Moody, Bitcoinwisdom or Bitcoinity

Maybe MtGox actually belongs to the US government and is really a part of their fiendish plan to destabilise cryptocurrencies and make them seem like a bad investment

Do you realise just how many carrier pigeons need to be sent for such a command?

Rally, almost immediately killed off by the ddos

If you owned all of them they probably wouldn't be worth anything

A friend was showing me that site, the prices are ridiculous

6k on $113.5 - Wallzilla's back again

The mining difficulty went up to 15,605,633 so a lot of people might have done the same as me and given up mining with their GPUs.  I was only doing it with my pair of Nvidia's because it was cheaper than buying gas to heat my living room.  I also stopped it because I don't need the heat any more either so it's pointless, other than the heat the cards gave off I was probably already making a loss.  Anyway, I bought those for gaming, not for mining.

It's much quieter in here now!

It was the evening before last that the difficulty went up from 12,000,000 to 15,600,00 - that's quite a jump.  I can't be the only one who decided that this made GPU mining much less worthwhile on their equipment

If it gets much lower you'll only be able to afford a bicycle with your coins!

http://www.listentobitcoin.com/ keeps sounding like someone's thrown a grenade into a music shop, I think I'll turn it off

It looks like Wallzilla's taken his ask wall away.  Moving it down or is the price about to go back up again?

Compared to recent times Chartbuddy looks like someone's driven over it with a steam roller

This is bitcoin, the word 'usually' means nothing here.

Edit: A lot of people find that they either break even, or would have more BTC if they'd just kept them as opposed to daytrading.  The trouble is that due to the small size of this market it only takes one person with a large amount of BTC to decide to buy or sell to send the trends off in the opposite direction.  These people know this and use it to their advantage, this means that often if you've sold your BTC and are hanging out for a lower price that they'll unexpectedly buy in, the price shoots up and you're left with a choice of hoping it comes back down or buying in for more than you sold for. (or dump them as you're waiting for the price to peak, crashing it back down again).  For this reason I prefer to try to keep to BTC as much as possible, swapping into USD for a short time to gain a little profit because staying in the opposite currency from the one you're trying to build up for a long time can be dangerous.  However, I still get it wrong half the time anyway, you'll have to develop a strategy that works for you.

It's far too easy to let emotions get in the way of your strategy too, like hanging out too long for a good deal or caving in too early.

Edit: Basically I can't advise you how to trade because I'm not that good at it, but I can point out ways that I've discovered to get it wrong.

These dumps always seems to happen at around 5am UK time, I wonder where whoever keeps doing this is based.

We'd probably be at that point already if our mystery weekend 5am coin dumper hadn't appeared on the scene last month, the price was climbing nicely until then

From the way this keeps happening I can't help wondering if it's a deliberate attempt to damage confidence in BTC rather than a way to make money or simple incompetence.  Now, who would both be able to afford to do this and benefit from it?  Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I can't help suspecting the US government or their banks - neither of whom are famous for playing fair or even obeying the law.  They could cause trouble like this with their spare change.

I don't think a tin foil hat is necessary to consider them capable of malicious behaviour, they have a long history of it.

I wonder how much longer this pattern will carry on for, maybe I should just leave a bid on for $2, then ignore BTC for a few months to see if I get it.

And an ask of $10,000 just in case it goes the other way

Fortunately I don't have (can't afford!) enough BTC or fiat in this for it to be a disaster regardless of what happens.

The trouble is that because BTC is used more for speculation than anything else the price varies wildly according speculators moods.  If it was more widely used as a currency then that would give it an intrinsic value and some inertia to its price changes.  For example there are traders dealing in USD but if they go crazy then still nobody's going to give you $20000 for £500 because $20000 also represents the price of a new car which £500 obviously doesn't.  Widespread use might not be good for speculators but for BTC itself as a currency it would stabilise its value a lot.

Of course though this is a speculators forum so I don't expect this suggestion to be very popular here!

$180 is a running joke on this thread, not a serious prediction.  You never know though...

@TheKoziTwo:  Contrary to recent comments I think those songs of yours on Youtube rock, and you can tell that to the girl that sang them from me too.

For those who don't know them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7TuFy0fcuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ku1A5Ox8U

It makes a nice change to hear a song about something that matters to you.

I don't write often on this thread but I read it a lot, I only write when I have something to say.

I like the songs but I'm not sure we need any more situations like that!

I did okay by changing my tiny BTC stash on MtGox into LTC on BTC-e but I must say it's a lot more civilised here than it is in the BTC-e trollbox, I can't imagine any of them putting a song like that together.

Anyway, I'm off to bed so goodnight everyone, it's very late here in the UK

@MtGox - I'll be back

One of the beads got jammed on their abacus

It's interesting how after buying everything up to $110 and selling everything down to $101 that the bids and asks filled the middle in again so quickly at a variety of prices, creating a market depth profile that looked like nothing had just happened.

BTC-e has been down for several hours

Edit:  So is Bter

Why do I always find myself suspecting the US government or its banker pals (same thing) for all the Ddos attacks on the exchanges?

Edit:  Vicurex is also down

BTC-e, Bter and Vicurex are all still down

I don't know, it wouldn't surprise me.  LTC gains value due to the Gox news of it being included soon, suddenly the alt-currency exchanges are all under attack - but from who?  (US government or banks? (same thing)).  It seems very unlikely that they'd all have system failures simultaneously.  Who stands to gain from this?

Bter is back up (not that I use it), BTC-e and Vicurex are both still down

I doubt they seized his wallet, more like that's how much he gave them when they pretended to be a seller and they refused to give it back - either that or he handed it over.  The DEA don't have the ability to seize someone's BTC wallet

It's getting like BTC-e's trollbox in here.

To stay on topic, is there any particular reason for the drop in the price of BTC and LTC today?

Is this panic time or cheap coins?  As always that's the question...

There might be a lot of manipulation but so long as you're aware of this and what they're trying to make everyone do then it's easier to do the opposite and profit from it rather than lose out.  Not that every wall is manipulation of course but some blatantly are.

Having only got into trading just after the April crash I kept finding walls suddenly appearing, causing me to panic and 'have to' trade at a loss.  By posting this a little while back Frozenlock you really helped me to understand Wallzilla's fiendish plans and to gain rather than lose from them most times.  I'm still only trading with a small amount but this insight (along with the experience I'm gaining) has helped to reverse my losses and I'm generally trading better.  Thanks for that.

That's right, but until I had it explained to me that this was a deliberate manipulative strategy rather than a simple trend reversal I usually ended up on the wrong side of it.  Frozenlock making this clear to me means that I now see what it is and can trade accordingly, panic is not the answer.  I don't follow the exact strategy outlined in the post, I just decide what needs to be done according to the circumstances when the hammer strategy is used, recognising it rather than falling for it makes a big difference.  BTC is a strange small market with a mixture of noobs and professionals, I'm doing my best to move from the former to the latter category, each day and each success or mistake I make teaches me a little more.

Or indeed any reason why they should only be worth half what they were three weeks ago?

Bit coin may have the advantage over fiat in that the 21 million BTC limit prevents inflation and endless money printing, but it's just the same as fiat in that its only value is the faith that people place in it - in fact it's worse in this respect because due to being almost impossible to spend in the shops people don't automatically equate a certain amount of BTC with an amount of goods - this is why the price fluctuates wildly, until you can spend it normally its only value is that given to it by investors and speculators.  This is good for day traders but not so good for BTC itself being taken seriously as a currency.  People say it won't become a mainstream currency for normal people to shop with until it becomes stable, personally I think it's the other way around.

+1

Spot on!

This is why I haven't sold, I've seen this trick too many times.  I'm also trying to stick to a strategy of trading on medium and long term established trend changes rather than reacting to reversals immediately in panic.  This might cut down my ability to make a huge markup but it seems to cut down even more my tendency to jump the wrong way and make a huge loss, so overall it's working out better (and less stressful) for me.  I might not be a noob any more but I'm well aware that I'm no pro either so I'm slowly evolving a strategy over time that works for me, and having a strategy and sticking with it seems to be more effective than just spontaneously reacting to things as they happen.  Of course though, if I see something that's obviously going to earn me a little in the short term then I'm not going to ignore it, but I'm trying to avoid risky behaviour.

I'm not investing that much yet though, partly because I know I'm not that skilled at trading yet and partly because I'm a skint hippie.  However, this week I made a 40% profit and can now join the Hitler Club: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4axmD2YvPnA

My previous way of trading just consisted of profit and loss cancelling each other out, meaning that I was getting nowhere.  Each day I learn a little more.

Because the BTC market never closes it means that going to sleep can be a dangerous thing to do, that always seems to be when I make my biggest losses, hence another reason to trade in the medium term rather than the short term - I'm not a robot and I must sleep sometimes.  Now I know why those guys in the stock exchange do so much coke, it's not because they can afford it but because they need it!  If you're trading millions then being asleep can cost much more than cocaine does.  Unfortunately my budget doesn't run to Peruvian marching powder, but maybe I can afford some more coffee, hey?

And on that note I'm going to the shops to buy some more coffee as I've run out.  Try not to crash the market whilst I'm out please guys!

Hey I said DON'T crash the market whilst I'm out buying more coffee.  Come on, own up, who was it?

I knew it!  He's a very naughty boy

Maybe when Megawallzillabull gets out of bed we'll get a trend reversal as he laughs at Wallzilla's tiny bear wall and gobbles it all up.  With a name like that he's probably American so he'll still be asleep

You look a mess Chartbuddy, go and brush your hair!

What a lovely metaphor!

This wall scheme is getting so obvious now.  They push the price down over weeks, everyone gets scared and sells them their cheap coins.  Obviously they're going to push the price up again because they want us all to get bullish so that they can dump those cheap coins on us for top dollar, then depress the price over a few weeks to start all over again.  Well if that's their plan I don't mind too much, that's also volatility and it can be profited from if you don't get suckered into giving up your coins for peanuts.

In this case Wallzilla's plan seems to have come unstuck a bit because Megawallzilla got bored of waiting and bought Wallzilla's wall for peanuts too.  It's funny sometimes watching two of these guys playing against each other, when I see that I just hold because there's no way to know which direction the price will go in.

This is true, Bitcoin as a speculation medium and as a currency don't go together.  If Bitcoin ever gets accepted and used widely as a currency it will lose its volatility but gain massively in value.  That I suppose would be the final deal for us daytraders but a good one if you were holding coins.  It's only because a Bitcoin doesn't represent a certain amount of goods that this wild fluctuation in its value happens, it's just traded by us lot more than any other use.

All the bid walls have vanished

That's true, search engine charts are just that.  By that method it would appear that the trend has changed from Justin Beiber to Miley Cyrus, which just goes to show how irrelevant Google search numbers are to the price of BTC

I'm no expert at this but unless this last couple of weeks is all one massive bull trap then the fall has been reversed at the $65 level and building ever since, it looks that way to me from the ClarkMoody H4 scale anyway.  This is possibly because the whales who manipulated the price down to load up on cheap BTC now want to manipulate it back up again to sell it all at a huge price, well that's what I'd do if I had enough BTC to push the market price around like that by myself

Based on my amateurish assessment of the long term trend as being on the way up I'm going to stop staring at these graphs, keep my BTC, watch some TV and then go to bed.  Goodnight all and good luck with the trading

This ^^

Sometimes it seems like I could sit here for years and nothing would happen, but the moment I go to sleep/go shopping/take my kid to school/etc the market will lurch violently in a way that works against me.  Sometimes it's as if the whales have got hidden cameras in my house and are waiting for me to stop watching the market, just so they can stitch me up.

Those stock exchange guys with their 'end of trading' each day don't know how easy they've got it

It looks a lot more like a clearly established upwards trend and that $65 was the bottom when you zoom out on the charts.  Sometimes it's too easy to focus in on the close detail and miss the bigger picture.  ClarkMoody's H4 scale shows this clearly.

Not only that but it seems to me that the price only collapsed due to deliberate manipulation, those who did that will surely want the price to be high again when they sell the cheap coins that they picked up, and they have the ability to make it happen that way.

If it's done purely to sell BTC in bulk then it's a very short sighted and stupid way of doing it, which as usual makes me reach for the tinfoil hat of US government/bank suspicion

Yay!  

Is it time for the gifs of bulls and rockets yet?

+1

That's quite a rally!

It's a good jpeg though, I like it!  Other image file formats are acceptable too!

Fifteen digits would be better, then my couple of BTC will be enough for me to buy the entire planet and one or two others.  Come on bulls!

When the price starts to climb sharply the bear traps get bigger too, I'm not worried, in fact I'd be cashing in on those if it weren't for the fact that I've just woken up, I think it's safer to just hold my BTC whilst I'm still half asleep, there'll be more bear traps to trade against when I'm properly awake on the way up yet

Thanks, it's been a long time coming

I also agree.  The only time you have to scroll past multiple postings from ChartBuddy is when there's so little happening in the BTC market that nobody else is posting anything anyway

I've been considering building a multi-GPU mining rig, even though it'll be barely profitable but cheap second hand cards would make a difference.  Here in the UK where we're getting badly ripped off over energy costs all the heat that such a rig kicks out in winter would be useful as opposed to waste - I'd just effectively be heating my house with electricity instead of gas and getting paid a little to do it too, rather than me having to pay a huge gas bill.  Maybe that's not what most miners want but in a country that's normally too cold for comfort it has to be taken into account.  (It'll be handy for gaming too)

Edit:  Obviously I'd have to mine something like Litecoin, with all these ASICs appearing mining SHA256 with GPUs won't get me very far

EDIT:  And I'll probably be waiting forever to get my 7GH/s miner from BFL, by then it'll be up against so many other ASICs that it'll be fairly useless.  Because of the way the mining difficulty increases with the rate that people mine at we should soon reach the point where the ASICs aren't producing any more BTC than the GPUs were before them, making the winners the companies that made them, not the people who bought them.  I wonder if it's possible to cancel that order....

EDIT:  Doesn't the increasing difficulty mean that the appearance of ASICs on the scene is nothing much for speculators to worry about, other than its effect on how other speculators behave?  All that's going to change in the long run is who gets to mine the coins, not how many they get.  It still doesn't make it like fiat currencies where the government just keep printing more (QE) and devalue the money that everyone already holds.  There's about 11 million coins already mined, no matter how good their ASICs they can never get more than 10 million more and that's not going to happen overnight either.

As I said, I'm basically just looking for a form of heating for my living room which breaks even and doubles as a LAN party gaming setup, I know I'll never make much more than the cost of some used cards (probably HD5870s) and the electricity back.  Even if it doesn't quite break even it should eventually work out cheaper mining LTC with this than paying my gas bill.  And even if it doesn't do that it'll be fun assembling it anyway, I enjoy messing about with computers.

These days attempting to do this as a serious business venture would probably be futile, it's only because the heat the cards put out is useful to me (not now, it's 27C) that it's even worth considering doing this at all.  The heat will be the larger part of what it pays, the LTC probably just enough to make it work at a slight profit as opposed to just being a pointlessly overcomplicated electric heater.

And with LTC I'm up against other GPU miners, not ASICs

It looks more like the BTC trader world have all fallen asleep, almost nothing is being traded at all right now.  (until I walk out the door of course, then all hell will break loose like it usually does when I'm not looking)

It always seems to get like that here when there's nothing happening, but it's usually after a quiet time like this that something dramatic happens in the market and it gets more fun to be here again.

Back to the 80's?  Does that mean we have to put up with all that New Wave music all over again?

Have the Thursday (ex Sunday) dumpers finished yet?  I want to go back to bed!

It shows ask/bid depth over the last hour, with the latest time at the front of the chart and an hour ago at the back.  It looks more interesting when the market moves.  It clearly shows any bid/ask walls.  If you click on it then your browser will open another tab with it in full size.

It's what Del Boy uses


That's how he made the money to buy that limousine

Max Kaiser +1

Another thing that people don't seem to understand is that QE is a very effective way to tax the population without them realising it, they don't have to be sent a bill or made aware of it at all.

Let's take the example of the UK economy, for no other reason than that's where I live.  Suppose the real total wealth of the country and the total amount of Sterling in existence is £1trillion, and that it's divided equally between the government and us the long suffering population.  Next the government prints another £1trillion of fiat and keeps it.  There hasn't been another £1trillion of wealth generated to justify that so the only thing that can happen is for the value of Sterling to halve.  Now two things have happened, the first is that rather than having £500,000,000,000 of wealth the population only have half of that, they might have the same amount of bank notes but they can only buy half as much with them.  The government has £1,500,000,000,000 in bank notes now, they too may only have half the value they did but they've effectively arranged it so that rather than the government and the people having a 50:50 share in the unchanged real total wealth of the country it's now 75:25, and nobody has noticed.  Obviously these are fictitious numbers but that's not the point.

The governments have made a trap for themselves by bailing out the banks, the banks have them over a barrel and they have no way out now.  If they stop QE and bank bailouts then the banks pull the rug out from under the economy and it collapses.  If they don't stop QE and bailouts then the population become so impoverished, desperate and angry that the result will eventually be a huge angry mob turning up at Parliament to lynch the lot of them.

What the governments should have done was to seize all the assets of the failing banks, jail those responsible and then compensate the people who had money in the banks.  That of course would have been quite a blow to the economy but at least the total cost would have been finite, and possible to pay off and recover from eventually.  Instead because the government and the banks are the same thing they chose the route of bailing out the banks, now they're desperately scrabbling for money to fill this bottomless money pit, a task that is impossible.  The way that they've responded to this situation means that whatever they do the economy is now doomed.

This ^^

If not Bitcoin then anything inflation proof will do as a way to store money, even things like collecting antiques

This won't be a problem for me because I don't have a mountain of cash to protect from inflation anyway, maybe I'll just leave society to implode (Mad Max style) and go off to live like Bear Grylls until it's all over.  I'll have to carve my Blockchain identifier into a rock and bury it so I can get my Satoshis back afterwards though

I am bullish about BTC in the long run but I'm also flat broke.  If the bears are going to hold the price down for long enough for me to scrape enough cash together to catch the train too then that's fine by me.  'Due to unforeseen circumstances the 12:41 train to the moon will be delayed' - just like my order from BFL of course

In the meantime I'll just keep turning over the small amount of BTC that I already have because this market uncertainty does present a good trading opportunity

MtGox seems to be down, or at least it is from my computer anyway, yet there still seem to be a few trades happening

503 Service Temporarily Unavailable

EDIT:  It's working again

Or a bigger whale will snap it up to avoid slippage if he believes that the price is going up

Or to make people ask a lower price than his wall, so that he can buy their coins more cheaply, with the intention of removing that wall before anyone gets a chance to buy his coins at that price.

Me too, I was planning to create a CampBX account anyway.  Enjoy your bonus!

It seems that way, I suspect that the owner of the $125 wall is getting people to bid in front of him, then when there's a lot of asks he's buying them all up.  I've noticed that those big buys always seem to go up to his wall but never buy into it, which also makes me think it's the same person.  I'd expect that if others start buying into his wall or getting too close to it that he'll take it away and the price will go above $125

I missed the chance to sell out at that price because I was cooking my daughter's dinner, but it's not all bad because I bought in at $68 anyway.

And here was me, thinking that going to bed was an option - how silly of me!  This is Bitcoin, there's no close of trading here!!

+1

I might not write on this thread very often but I've been following it since about page 150 and have read plenty of his posts, I couldn't agree with you more.

I managed to call the bottom perfectly, but it's unfortunate that I used it to sell at rather than buy at - oops!  Oh well, it's not the end of the world.  At least I did call the bottom correctly last time when I bought in for $68, and I don't have enough of a BTC/USD stash to be worth losing sleep over the price difference anyway.

It seems very capitalistic to me.  As with any other currency, there's a small number of people with huge stashes ruining things for everyone else, such as by dirty tricks like dumping about 25000BTC onto a rising market last night, and manipulating the price with huge ask/bid walls.

Of course though although I object to this it doesn't mean that I definitely wouldn't do the same if I was in a position to do so, just like anyone else I'm happy to accept a pile of cash if it's available, few people are completely immune to greed.

I had wondered if we're going to see a repeat of what started happening in May, when after recovering to around $130 BTC got pushed down towards $65 by the 'Sunday dumper' whale.  Since the $65 point it's been being pushed up in much the same way, regularly spaced huge buy ins by a whale.  Maybe it's the same person in both cases and now he's switched back to dumping masses of coins again.  I have no TA reasoning for thinking of this, but I'm not sure that TA is of much use for analysing such behaviour anyway but if there's another mountain of coins dumped next week then I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to happen again for some time.  This is one problem with a small market like BTC, it's easy for one rich person to push the price around at will, to do that to a currency like USD on the Forex market would only be possible for a wealthy country's government to do, not even a corporation as rich as Apple could make much of a dent in USD's value by themselves.

I'm not sure why people believe that Gox is going bust though.  0.6% of every transaction from both parties has to add up to a small mountain of cash/BTC, definitely more than they could ever have made from Magic the Gathering cards, that's for sure.  They may have lost a lot of cash with the Dwolla incident but I'd expect that they can afford it.

Thanks.  If I could find good market trackers like ClarkMoody, and Bitcoinity for BTC-e then I'd switch to them - 0.2% and no chance of interference from the USA with a Russian business.  Bitcoinwisdom does do BTC-e but its order book is awkward to read, the moving averages are useful though.  Maybe I should just do it anyway since I'm only trading a small amount, which means that slippage isn't really an issue on a low volume market like BTC-e.  The trollbox is irritating though, but multiple crypto trading is good - I did quite well there out of LTC when Gox made their announcement and the price shot up for a while, and reasonably well from FTC too.

Yes, you're right of course.  It would be better though if the market depth graph didn't lag so badly.  The 0.2% commission rate also makes me much more likely to trade, with 0.6% on Gox as often as not Gox takes all the profit and I make a slight loss if the ask/bid spread isn't wide enough so I just end up sat here doing nothing instead.

The ClarkMoody site seems to be working properly since last week, I think it might be being hosted on someone else's server.  I also noticed that the 'reconnect' button has gone, and it no longer makes the 'connected'/'connection lost' chimes - not that I've had it lose its connection since then.  However, it still has the same tendency to stop making noises for the trades after a while.  I like its order book, it's the easiest one to use.  If it also had market depth and moving averages then I wouldn't need to use any other sites as it'd all be in one place, especially if they included other exchanges and cryptocurrencies.

There's lots of complaints about not being able to get USD out of Gox, but is it still easy to get GBP into Gox?  I know Bitstamp is a little cheaper but Bitstamp obviously have to pass their records onto the inland revenue.  This isn't an issue now because I don't have any spare money, I'm just curious for future reference.  Bitstamp might be in the UK but for some reason they only trade in USD, BTC-e don't do GBP either so there would be an exchange fee.

I get charged a commission by the banks for doing that, any funds I have will be in GBP because I live in the UK.  Previously I wired GBP to Gox, bought BTC and then sold them for USD there.  It took about three days last time, but that was before the withdrawal problems.  I'm wondering if these problems affect GBP transfers, and whether they only affect withdrawals or deposits as well.

Thanks.  Unfortunately it would be a small amount (not much cash here!) which would make the fee a higher proportion of the total.  However, I suppose that's going to be the same whichever way I do it.  Perhaps if it's just a few bitcoins then using something like localbitcoins.com would work out easier and cheaper.  Alternatively using BTC-e with its lower prices might make up for the charges.

Anyway, trading seems to be very slow right now so I'm going to have a break and get back to playing Far Cry 3 for a bit, whilst keeping an eye on ClarkMoody on my second display in case anything does occur.

Thanks for your advice, I'll bear that in mind.  All I need to do now is to somehow actually acquire enough cash to send, not an easy thing these days with our greedy, corrupt millionaire government of thieves.  Anyway, I'll say no more about them or I'll end up ranting, they're not worth spoiling my evening over.

Meanwhile, back on the topic of ask/bid walls, there aren't any to discuss so I'm going to go to bed instead.  Goodnight all

Everything you both wrote also describes perfectly the situation here in the UK, where we genuinely do have a continuation of the dreadful Thatcher years.

"...while society sleeps in an uninterested apathetic coma" - That's the same here too unfortunately.  Considering the way this government is deliberately impoverishing everyone whilst blatantly stuffing their pockets it should be enough to cause rioting or even civil war, unfortunately the population is too busy watching Eastenders and Big Brother on TV instead.  So long as nobody's pointing guns at them the British public will happily suck up the propaganda and accept mistreatment from corrupt governments indefinitely.

Anyway, I'll say no more about it because this could easily turn into a several page long rant if I get started.

Where's the ask/bid walls to discuss when I would like to get back on topic?  I haven't seen one for a few days now.

With no walls or trading action worth mentioning I'm going to go to bed instead, goodnight all, and try not to crash the price before I get up please, thanks.

There's nothing happening and no walls to discuss, so does it really matter?  If that changes then you can be sure that everyone will be back on topic.  This thread has always been a bit of a social club right from the beginning too.

You're right, although these riots were carried out by stupid kids in a stupid way they are indicative of the underlying anger of the whole population, there will very likely be more riots, but this time by adults with genuine grievances and who are completely desperate due to the way this corrupt government is deliberately and greedily impoverishing everyone.  They're blatantly stealing the wealth of the country and people really can't take much more, it's been quiet so far but there is so much anger and desperation thanks to this government that if it all kicks off again it won't be just a bunch of bored opportunistic kids robbing the shops for a new pair of trainers, it will most likely be the worst civil insurrection that this country has seen since the civil war.  I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if assassinating politicians comes back into fashion either.

The only thing that's prevented this from already having started is the Tory/BBC/Murdoch press propaganda machine working overtime to keep everyone blaming each other (the poor, the unemployed, immigrants, etc) rather than the government and their banker/corporate cronies who are the real criminals.  If enough people see though the propaganda then this government could find themselves in real physical danger, which is just what they deserve.

Personally I don't want rioting in the streets of course, I just want them to go away but obviously they're not going to, so only time wil tell how this is going to pan out.  The government had better hope that people keep staying at home, in front of the telly rather than taking to the streets as would be entirely understandable and justifiable.  The trouble with most riots is that people smash up the place that they live in, they rarely seem to target those who actually deserve it.

I knew things would get bad when this lot became the government but I didn't think it could be any worse than under Thatcher, how wrong I was, it's much worse by far.  Cameron makes that evil old witch look like Mother Theresa

Damn, I said I wasn't going to rant about our corrupt government, now I have, they just annoy me so much that it's difficult not to.  Obviously I didn't go bed when I said I would last time, I really should do now because I have to get up again in three hours to get my daughter to school - either that or maybe I should just have another coffee...


Still no walls to discuss, Gox is getting boring, I wonder how long that's going to last?  Often it suddenly gets very dramatic when it's been quiet for a while. (usually when I'm not looking)

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy an adaptor cable which plugs into a motherboard's PCIe x16 slot, which then has 16 PCIe x1 slots attached to it, one PCIe lane each?  I was wondering if it might work out cheaper if in addition to my expensive gas boiler I was to heat my house by Litecoin mining.  Almost all the power used by the GPUs is lost as heat, but in winter heat is something I want and something I would have to pay for anyway.  This would in effect be a noisy and bulky fan heater which generated both heat and money, the heat would make up for the fact that LTC mining uses a bit more electricity than the value of the LTC it mines.

Every calorie of heat the mining machine blows out is a calorie my boiler doesn't have to produce.  Obviously there's the component costs too, those would have to be second hand, such as old HD5870s which work fairly well but aren't very expensive any more.

Maybe I could find a way to create such a cable if they're not commercially available

Similar to that cable, but to plug into a motherboard's PCIe x16 slot at one end, and split into 16 cables with one PCIe x1 adaptor on each of the other ends to connect to 16 graphics cards.  The amount of data needed by each card mining can easily be sent through a single PCIe lane, after all the BFL 7GH/s vapourware miner that I've had on order forever uses a USB lead which is even slower.  (Where's my damned ASIC then, BFL?)

As for efficiency, consider it like any other machine for a moment, forget about data because that's not quantifiable in this way.  The card uses a certain amount of power, say 250W perhaps.  now where does all that power go?  The amount of electricity used by the PCIe interface is very small, the same goes for the video output cable.  This means that the bulk of the power is going somewhere else.  There are only three other ways for the power to go, remember that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it has to go somewhere.  Those three ways are heat, noise and into kinetic energy from the fan and the air that it moves.  The moving air and the spinning fan will lose their energy as heat from friction in the bearings and against the air in the room, there's no other place for it to go but that's only a small proportion of the energy that the card uses anyway.  The noise isn't like a stereo turned right up (for a single card anyway!) so that can't be using a lot of energy either, and the sound vibrations in the air will also convert into a small amount of heat as the atmosphere in the room or the bricks in the wall absorb them.  This means that almost all the energy goes directly into the heat lost from the GPU itself.  Even the electrical signals absorbed in the motherboard and the monitor will eventually be lost as heat too.  So this effectively means that all the energy that goes into the card becomes heat from one source or another, the only lost energy is from any sound which escapes the building and loses its energy outdoors, which will be negligible.

So, given that virtually all the power used by the card must become heat inside the room, that means that it would produce exactly the same amount of heat as an electric fan heater that used the same amount of power, so it would cost the same amount of money to run it.  The fact that whilst it's heating the room it also generates Litecoin is bonus, and when that's counted against the electricity bill it means that a mining rig is a cheaper way to heat a room than an electric heater is.  Of course though this still leaves the cost of the equipment, which is the only thing which can make it work out more expensive overall, that's why getting the parts cheaply is vital.

Anyway, I like tinkering with electronics so it's something to occupy me during those long winter nights.

Of course though there's still the issue of whether the noise will drive me insane!

Gas used to be about half the cost of electricity here in the UK too, but in recent years the price has greedily risen a lot more quickly than with electricity so there's not a lot between them these days

Anyway, it'd be a smaller machine that was contributing heat, not a large machine kicking out so much heat that using the boiler was unnecessary.  Well, it was something to idly consider last night, not a project that I'm definitely hell bent on achieving.  I was just thinking about how much it costs to heat my house, it'd be lovely to have a heating system with generated money as well as heat but I suppose it is a bit impractical.  Or to put it another way, if the heat generated is useful then surely this must alter the way LTC mining profitability should be considered re: LTC mined vs electricity consumed because there's the third factor to consider of the waste heat no longer being waste and the fact that this where most of the electricity consumed ends up.  Anyway, the best use for such a mining rig were it possible would be to take it back in time to when Bitcoin was first new and mine back in the days when most people hadn't heard of BTC, and those who had were CPU mining - or better still just use the cash to buy up BTC four years ago - why didn't anyone tell me about BTC back then?

Nice attitude, hey?  Well you feel free to talk about the walls and all the trading that's happening then, not that there are any to discuss.  Everyone else has been off topic too for this reason too, so why single out what I wrote, hey?

Honestly though I really can't be bothered to argue about this with you, maybe this thread should just be closed down until someone puts up an ask/bid wall to keep you happy as this is officially a single topic thread. (not a thread that you created though and you're not its moderator)

And also to be fair to Deathcode, I should say that I've just had to get up to get my daughter ready for school after only about an hour's sleep, so I'm was just being grumpy anyway, I apologise for that.

What I need is a rally to $1000 to cheer me up, or at least another coffee or a bit more sleep.  Usually I try to be cheerful but my sense of humour doesn't seem to be online yet, I'll go and put the kettle on...

Going up...

Okay then, within a few seconds of me selling at $129 that whale bought his 5000BTC and then walled off the bid side at $135, just as if he'd been waiting for me to do that. (do whales have spy cameras everywhere?).  Then I ended up buying in a few cents above his wall, compounding my mistake.

Fortunately, as I've said before, because I only have a few BTC this is annoying, not a disaster and I will make it back again.  Had I been trading a few thousand BTC I'd be flipping out about that right now!  However, I think I can survive losing 0.15BTC, the lesson is worth the price.

Oh well, mistakes are there to be learnt from

I know.  That's a lesson that I've already learnt before, yet sometimes seem to keep forgetting again.  The trouble is that in my day to day life I have very little cash to spare so daytrading is the only way to increase what I have, unless BTC does the equivalent of it's rise from 20 cents to $266 over a couple of years again, which would be nice

I'll get that back sooner or later, I'm not worried about that.  I should have known not to trade at that point, I always seem to get it wrong when I come back home then go straight to my computer and then immediately make a snap decision to trade.  Fortunately I do get it right other times, I've made 150% profit over the last month so I'm still well ahead, it's just that unfortunately that's 150% of not a lot.  I'll get there eventually though.  If I do start to build up to a significant amount then I'll start putting a slice of any profits safely away as a hedge against me messing up and losing half of it again.

A big chunk of that 150% came from switching to LTC the moment that Gox claimed that they were going to introduce trading with it, and then back to BTC before the LTC price dropped back again.  That worked out very nicely, much better than I expected it to.

As with today, when I get it wrong it's often due to the sudden appearance of walls, but I suppose that's catching people like me out is the idea behind them placing them there.  This often seems to happen on a Monday after a quiet weekend too.

I'm fairly sure that I saw that bid wall get sold in to, although I could be wrong about that I suppose

No worries, sorry about snapping at you this morning when I was half awake, I'm often very irritable when I've just woken up - especially if I've only had about an hour's sleep before the alarm goes off

Back on topic, how long has that bid wall at $133 been there?  I've been busy for a while so I've only just noticed it.

Bitcoinwisdom is showing a wall of 2500BTC @$135, ClarkMoody doesn't show it at all yet sales are going through at that price

Edit:  It finally appeared, maybe I shouldn't put too much trust in ClarkMoody's then, even Bitcointy's depth graph was ahead of it and that always lags.

+1 and posted to my Facebook wall too

Either that was a different buyer or he's changed his strategy.  The buy was smaller and no bid wall was placed.  If that is another person wanting to buy in like that then that's bullish anyway

True of course, and it'll probably do it in a minute because I have to leave now to collect my daughter from school and then go shopping.  Sometimes it seems that these whales are just waiting for me to switch this computer off so that they can spring an unpleasant surprise on me.  Note to whales:  Buy, not sell!  I want to see $100,000/BTC by the time I get home again, if that's okay with you lot?  Thanks, lol

Mostly just shopping receipts, my driving licence and a couple of debit cards.  I refuse to have a credit card so there's none of those in there.  Most people carry very little cash these days

This might not be very exciting but you did ask!

I see that the whales ignored my request to bring the price up to $100000/BTC whilst I was out, how disappointing

From having had a look at Silk Road I see that the prices are such that if I was interested in using it then that would be as a seller, not a buyer because the prices are about double what they should be.  A lot of people are making a lot of cash there, that's for sure.

No, I haven't bought or sold anything there myself; I don't find prison food appealing.  (to be honest I don't find my own cooking very appealing either!)(and I haven't tried prison food, for all I know it could be better than my cooking)

Silk Road might be anonymous but going to the post office every day to post boxes of drugs definitely isn't, nor is ordering them to your address as if you're innocently buying things from Amazon.


Back on topic, I wonder if the price is going to break the $150 psychological barrier any time soon, and what will happen afterwards.  The person who keeps placing these large buys seems to be being careful not to shove the price too close to $150, and then waiting for it to fall back and the ask pressure to build again to avoid slippage each time before he next buys in.

Maybe everyone's just waiting for everyone else to push the price past $150

Possibly a lot of selling into the weekend dip, followed by a lot of regret when the next whale buy in happens.  Of course it could go either way though.  The longer term trend is definitely upwards, but as we all know past performance often means very little in this game.

MtGox make more than enough commission from every trade from both parties that there's no reason for them to go bankrupt, despite their recent problems.  They should have a mountain of cash by now

The Rghost URL in that 'announcement' is hosting links to malware according to this scan: http://zulu.zscaler.com/submission/show/242dad2d77c4199bdd3a0b70f5b8ab6b-1380140842

Of course though encryption software often causes false positives when scanning for malware, but I'm not going to click it whilst I'm still running Windows anyway, maybe I'll boot from a live Linux distro CD and check it out later just for curiosity's sake.

I guessed that, but I thought I'd give it a quick scan anyway

Does anyone know whether it's just people in the US having trouble withdrawing fiat from Gox, or is it everyone?

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't have asked that, now there's no sign of the 1BTC that I just sent to BCT-e over an hour ago, nor any mention of it on the Blockchain.info page for that address.

Thanks.  It's nearly two hours and still no sign of that transaction on blockexplorer.com or Blockchain.info.  It might only be 1BTC but I still want it.  Hopefully it'll turn up by tomorrow.........?

You've had Sunday night already there?  What time zone are you in?   

@BitAddict:  I though for a moment that your profile pic was this chap from the Bull Ring here in the city centre in Birmingham, UK.  Maybe he'll be buying Bitcoins today too?  Or perhaps he's cleverer than that and he bought his stash when 10,000BTC was only enough to buy a pizza

+1

It's even on the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24373759

Silk Road seized:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24373759

That's a serious oversight for such an operation

Around here localbitcoins.com prices are unaffected, suddenly their bid prices look amazing

You could make another music video about this!  I like the others that you did

Igor, Bitcointalk forum, it's alive!!

Why wouldn't he?  Unless he's really stupid then those bitcoins are only part of his stash and he's got more in another account that the feds don't know about.

Maybe it's because it's bedtime in China, things might pick up again tomorrow.  Today hasn't been a typical weekend dip at all

There's also the fact that China seem to have been leading this rally and it's the middle of the night over there now

It's sunrise in eastern China, maybe things will get interesting again soon...

I know what you mean there.  I had to sell almost all my small quantity of BTC at about $135/btc about five weeks ago just to pay for my car insurance, now I'm left with just the change and £40 worth that I managed to buy yesterday.  Watching the price rise like this immediately after selling, and not having the cash to buy any more was not much fun at all.  However, I had previously tripled what I had so it's a case of not making as much as I could have, rather than having lost I suppose so it's not all bad.  I'll be buying more when I can though because I'm sure that this rise isn't going to stop here, if it does then I'll just buy more anyway because in the long term it's definitely going up.

Poverty sucks, I really need to trade my way out of it.  That means finding cash in my daily life to work with, because 200% profit of not a lot is still not a lot.  Maybe I could sell a kidney or two.....lol

Does anyone have a time machine?  I could go back to 2009, tell myself about Bitcoin, and take a copy of cgminer for my then new HD5870 and be the only GPU miner on the planet as everyone else was doing it on their processors back then.

Bears on acid?  Sounds dangerous!

It's now 9am in Shanghai, what will they make of this bear party when they go online?  Will they join in, or see it as those famous cheap coins that everyone's always talking about?

Gox's website seems to be responding very slowly right now

Well the website was up, now it's saying 502 Bad Gateway

As always I can't help thinking that these ddos attacks are probably by the US government and their banker pals, both of whom are famous for their dishonesty and criminal behaviour.

Preferably a sell, I need time to get the money together to buy some Cheap Coins™

Except on Gox, where nothing whatsoever is happening

Bitstamp is based in Reading, UK

On one hand if Bitstamp ripped me off I could pay them a visit, but on the other hand the Inland Revenue can get hold of information about any trades that I do there.  I like the way that the UK and US governments can't touch BTC-e though because it's in Russia

Google Earth/Street View shows that address as a small industrial/office unit, and I don't see any sign on the building with Bitstamp written on it either.

It seems that they're just one of many company names registered at that address, which belongs to @UK PLC - http://www.uk-plc.net/contact-ukplc.html

As I just said, that address is @UK, a company which registers businesses to its own address.  They's probably got hundreds of companies registered there.

I noticed on Bitcoinwisdom that the charts for BTCChina look much more smooth and as I'd expect them to than on MtGox, where they look quite ragged and difficult to predict.  Would this be because Gox is following BTCChina's prices?  Gox seems to have much lower volume too.

401.97 now, so the 400 wall finally falls

Not to mention all the money that's been put into mining.  It doesn't matter how fast everyone mines or how much they've spent on it, they're still only going to get 25BTC every ten minutes between them.

They're probably in for a rude awakening on account of having done business with BFL, they'll be lucky to get their Monarch cards before the last bitcoin is mined if BFL's history is anything to go by.

I made the mistake of ordering one of their 7GH/s miners.  I'd still be waiting for it now if I hadn't changed it to hosted mining, and I only did that because it wouldn't have even covered the cost of its own electricity, this way BFL have to pay the electricity bill and I don't have to pay import duty so at least I shouldn't make even more of a loss.  I only did that because the bastards refused to refund me after they delayed so much that it was worthless.  Well, I won't be making that mistake again, bye bye bitcoins.  I feel sorry for those who've given thousands to BFL, at least my loss wasn't that much.

I doubt that they'll sort it out in any reasonable timeframe, but at least this way it won't cost me any more.  The only other alternative I had was to ignore the delivery notice from the post office when it eventually turned up.  Although it's annoying the amount I'd spent wouldn't have covered the cost of suing them - especially since they're in a different country and can afford posher lawyers than I can.

What about the bowl of petunias?

Me too, I never dream of a stable market, it's always a crash or to the moon.  This is much more likely to happen if I fall asleep with the Clark Moody page running nearby with the sound enabled

I tend to leave Bitcointy running because If I wake from a dream like that I can see what the real price is through blurry eyes because it has the price written quite big on it.  What an exciting life I lead, hey?  I don't even have a lot of BTC to worry about anyway.

I did include one when I first joined this forum because a lot of other people had them, but I soon decided that it looked like begging as well as being pointless so I removed it, but feel free to dump your surplus BTC here if that helps, lol:  122TybYFT4uYgoD8sbBWB5RczL87socK3X

I can agree with that and I too only use debit cards, I might not have much money but I'd rather spend it all on myself than have a chunk go in credit card charges, that's like volunteering to pay extra tax.

And when you submit it after all that time you'll find someone and their asic/mining pool have beaten you to it, with that block and every other one.  Maybe I'll give it a miss.

If you already own the GPU and it's winter so the waste heat isn't actually waste because you want it then it's worth it, otherwise you can end up paying more for electricity than you earn.  However, if LTC prices continue to climb then that could improve things.  It's also worth looking at other coins as sometimes they're more profitable, the profitability is compared here: http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency

As I've discovered today the heat is a useful feature when yet again my gas meter has broken and switched the gas off, leaving me with no heating.

Should we sacrifice a virgin to honour him?  Will that make him benevolently increase our BTC stashes?

Rule number five:  Don't go to sleep during trading hours - no sleep for Bitcoin speculators

Because I'm going to force the price down with a 10,000 satoshi wall and dump a whole mBTC.

Wasn't it like that last Monday morning too?  Everyone waiting for the price to shoot up as soon as the Chinese got out of bed but nothing happening and everyone getting disappointed and bearish?  That only went on until the afternoon (GMT), maybe it'll be the same today.  This suggests that they do most their trading when they get home from work, not when they get up.

Is it just me having changed some setting or have MtGox just changed their trading interface into an annoying and completely useless one?

I just set a sell order and it changed the price that I typed in to one $20 lower just as I clicked sell because that was the current price, it's fortunate that I'm not trading a lot or that would have cost me a lot of money.  It keeps defaulting to market order too.

When people start arguing or insulting each other on here that's often an indicator that the market is stable enough for me to safely ignore it for a while and take my dog for a walk instead.

It's hardly a compliment, is it?  I've read plenty of his posts, he's entitled to his own opinions and I've never seen him insult anyone like that either.

Anyway, now I'm wasting valuable dog walking time arguing with you too

The price on BTCChina is already rallying despite it being the middle of the night over there, tomorrow (there) should be interesting

Bitcoin has always been worth more than gold.  An ounce of gold is $1242.36, but because data is intangible and weightless then an ounce of bitcoins is an infinite number of bitcoins, so even at a cent a bitcoin an ounce of them is worth much more.

(what, there's only 21 million of them?  There goes my calculations, damn)

Now here's something you don't want to do, a man in Wales has accidentally thrown out his hard drive which has his bitcoin wallet with 7500BTC on it, it's now buried somewhere in a landfill site:  
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/the-4million-bitcoin-treasure-hunt-newport-wales-computer-hard-drive-thrown-out-with-rubbish-133041090.html

That's less than a 2 hour drive from here

It would also be good because then I could trade BTC/LTC without having to see BTC-e's annoying trollbox

RPietila will like that, he's so bullish that he's been using mBTC all along

Edit:  How do you make these images smaller when you repost them?

Edit:  Got it!

Got it, thanks.

Only $2 short of the ATH then!!

It's uncanny the way that these things are always perfectly timed to coincide with me having to do the school run.  Maybe the bears are spying on me, lol

If that happens then I'll just stock up on Cheap Coins™ for when it's eventually over

Just for fun I put in a bid at $159, if it carries on like this then that bid might get filled!

One question is whether it's just repeating old data or whether it's actually repeating the trades too, so that someone who put in a market sell order for a small amount of their stash has actually sold it all for an unknown price.

It's 4:26am in Japan, this could go on unnoticed for hours yet

It just did a few upticks then at approx $870

Moody's and Bitcoinity still saying about an hour's lag, maybe the displayed price and trades are still out of date.

Same here, my 15 year old BMW 523i (E39) that only cost me £490 does me just fine, it's lovely to drive and I don't even have to worry about it losing value either.  Unless I had a mountain of cash then I'd never consider buying a new car, I'd rather let someone else lose all that money.  (Well to be honest I have to because I haven't got new car money anyway)

From past experience I can say that if you're looking to buy an old car, definitely do not buy a Vauxhall Vectra B DTi, I did and I've never spent so much time owning a car and walking everywhere.  The damned thing cost me a fortune even though I'm a mechanic so don't have to pay labour costs.  That has to be the worst car I've ever owned, lovely to drive when it worked which is something that it rarely did.  Fix one expensive thing and another would break the next week.

Edit:  Back on topic, I think I'll hang on to my BTC now, it's usually at this point that I try to do one more trade, and lose everything I made and more too.

My sofa cost me £10, but it does the job nicely

I got it second hand of course.  However, it'll have to go soon because my new puppy keeps chewing lumps out of it, but it's staying until she learns not to because I don't want the same happening to the replacement.  (which will probably cost a bit more).

I had to get my house furnished in a hurry with very little cash when my daughter came back to live with me.  I always meant to buy something better but (until I got my dog) there was nothing wrong with this one so it wasn't a priority

Which makes it seem a bit silly when people claim that MtGox are going bankrupt, they must have earned a small mountain of BTC and USD since they set up which should easily cover their recent losses.

My sofa was okay until the dog started eating it.  However, I don't live with my parents, I moved out 24 years ago.  As for the girlfriend, she's an ex and we get on much better that way.

My car might not have cost more than $1000 but I have a double decker bus kitted out as a living vehicle which did.  (I also have a house)(rented, not mine)

As King George V is supposed to have said on hid deathbed, "Bugger Bognor!".  Having been there I can understand that

Or this one, which doesn't seem to lag as badly on the depth graph and can show multiple markets:  http://bitcointicker.co/

Me neither, I've only just discovered it.

Probably those of them who trade BTC are no different than many of us: sat up half the night, drinking unhealthy amounts of coffee, staring at graphs and never getting enough sleep

There's a lot of people who are so new to this and nervous after the correction that they'll dump their coins just because a car backfires at the end of their street, if someone has enough BTC/fiat to push the market around their fear must be easy to cash in on.

I've fallen for that one a few times myself, these days I'd rather wait to see if there's an established downward trend rather than reacting to the first whale sell off.

Have fun with your new wheels!!

Next time you go would you mind picking up a copy of next year's charts for me please?  Thanks

Thanks,  would you mind popping back to 2009 and telling me to start mining bitcoin too please?  

Fair enough, I'll send myself an email then, and attach a copy of Reaper miner to it too so that I can outdo everyone else as they were all using their processors back then

I doubt that GPU mining would wreck it all back then, I only had (and still have) one HD5870.  It would make a few coins though

Such famous bastions of engineering, or is it bastards of engineering?

We could just etch QR codes onto bones and bury them at the end of our gardens

Quite predicable too. If you entrust your BTC to an anonymous criminal then it might just go astray

Surely if we take the story at face value about the theft of the coins then it becomes fraud the moment the loss of the coins is discovered if trading is allowed to continue.  That would mean from that this point in time that people were knowingly being allowed to buy coins that don't exist.  This of course would raise the question of whether trading stopped on discovery of this or later on.  Up until that point it would be incompetence, if trading continues once it's realised that there's no coins then doesn't it become a crime?