No surprise that CFDs are illegal in the USA, but invented and legal in the Wild West of Fiat (also known as London) where AIG's traders ran that company into a bankrupt state and JP Morgan's whale trader lost them billions too.

This has been my thinking for some time. We'll see.

I said - the speculative weight will bring it down. all the capital is speculative. 99%. if this asset is not performing in 6 months time, the crash will self perpetuate to zero. by then investors could afford to replace it with a new coin. google could pounce on the opportunity, for example. Ripple (although inferior) might hold the fort until bitcoin is dead.

LOL sure;...!

I've been doing some research on the macroeconomic conditions in China and they are not looking good. What that means for Bitcoin is unknown of course, because it depends on how badly the Chi-Coms and the PBoC react to it, and whether the flight to safety such as bonds, PMs and cash will include bitcoin.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-16/richest-man-asia-selling-everything-china

There is a high probability that China will crank up the printing presses. Poor(er) Chinese will either use Bitcoin as a hedge on inflation, use more traditional precious metals, or they will be too broke to hedge at all. Chinese capital in invested in all the wrong places. This was the inevitable consequence of their neo-mercantilist foreign trade policy, as it was for Japan and every other country that tried it.

 While some folks admittedly have a single-minded assurance in TA/waves/line indicators & patterns that indeed verges on the superstitious, that doesn't mean all TA is useless & baseless. There has got to be some evidence from forex & bitcoin forums that at least a few skilled traders have seen TA give them some successful entries & exits on a mostly consistent basis, I guarantee it.

 But more to the point though, why after countless hundreds of posts debating this & that person's predictions accuracy or lack thereof, it hasn't occured to nobody yet to simply bring about the weapon that ends all doubts - SCREENSHOTS or it didn't happen..??

 If I ever got the slightest curious inquiry about one of my bets/calls I immediately, gladly produce some screenshots of exchange accts' trade history logs while MS-Paint-blanking away the sensitive/private details.. o.O?

thats true for ignorant traders. we have unfolding fundamental themes here. the more knowledge one has, the more accurately one can read the charts. Stock traders are usually professionals in their fields, such as mining, commodities etc... they have a stronger edge.

I am not the only one here who has made more than 10x my money here. Bitcoin is a phenomena.

The forex markets are much larger and robust, randomised, and manipulated. I would agree that nobody can sytematically make 75% from that.

I also agree about the emotions, not only your emotions/logic but others aswell.

Sorry, i don't care about what trolls like him say.
Everything he says is for his own gains. Better is just to ignore it.

21 milion will be mined for 120 year, regardless of mining speed (network hashrate),
but bitcoin will dies for next 5-6 months.

sure. and the muslim riot within three months

He is known as being socially as well as financially conservative.  I don't know if that is accurate or what it means in regards to btc.

The nature of Bitcoin - once you sell it, you can't sell it again.

After 6 months of selling, no more coins in the sellers' hands.

Volume down.

Next: UP. No other way is even possible.

When: Don't know exactly, but 650 by the end of June is a possibility. Top could be in August-September.

I tend to agree with Rpietila, here.  The markets seem to be running out of people willing to sell BTC at the current price.  A very large majority of those who wanted to sell have already sold at prices - higher than the current price point.

To suggest that there is a lack of demand based on an overall lack of volume seems to be a misreading of the current state of affairs.

507 1st retracement
494 50% retracement
481 2nd retracement.

I would be inclined to buy back at 1st retracement this time (if I was selling which I wasn't).

If 481 is breached, then the breakout is questionable.






23.6% is good but i prefer 76% u will always find a better entry if u have patience.

0.23BTC @ 1000$ won't even buy you 1 really good monitor. Why would you need 3 monitors to watch the price?

Very predictable reaction. I have to wonder, though: I can understand you being reluctant to use your own money the money given to you by the government to buy bitcoins if you think the technology will fail. I can even understand yourself declining offers for free bitcoins, because of your seeming conviction that if you use it just even once, your objective judgement will be forever clouded. Which I personally think is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever seen on these forums, but hey I like bullshit - see my signature.

But what about distributing free bitcoins to other people? What is your rationalization for declining that offer? That there are "better uses" for the money? Please kindly let the owners of said money be the judge of that. Or are you afraid, that people will get hooked on it, just like if we offered them free heroin? You want to protect them from themselves, because you're convinced you know best what's good for other people? How about letting them form their own opinion? If you're so sure that your opinion is right, they'd probably just validate it by forming the same one.

I think your reasons are different. Even though your pride and your posting track record will never allow it, at some level you realize that your opinion might be wrong. And you fear the embarrassment of your students becoming enthusiastic about the technology. So you would deny them the option to form their own opinions just to protect your pride. I am calling you out on this because I think it's quite pathetic.

And even worse, having to scroll through dozens of replies to every post of mine, by people who have nothing useful to say about bitcoin, but think it is important to discuss my person.  

 A perpetually self-damaging frustrated contrived & compromised mind such as Shroom's cannot be reasoned with. The basic trading insight & common sense you continually proffer cannot possibly reach & enlighten the closed, damaged thought routines of such an individual. You look foolish in even attempting to do so and/or defending yourself & your trading strategies =/



 ..Can you see the gigantic corny dildo obviously wedged tightly inside this constipated loser's sphincter..?!?? He gives off a 100% boot-licking bought-&-brainwashed shill vibe of the highest order.. o.o

What? We are getting like +30 every other day and you're bearish? Do I read that right?

Bitcoin traders are not known as the smartest people around.
Basically most of them have no idea what they are doing. For most it goes like this: omg everyone is selling, i need to sell now! Omg everyone is buying, i need to buy now!

What kind of fucking bullshit is this

Like honestly.. what on earth does this do? Going down where we were 6 hours ago, right away. What a bunch of shit.

Thank fucking fuck that I got out with my longs 3 days ago, but this is just painfull to watch at the moment. Go through that fucking roof already.

Like I said above.

I've been trading forex for 5 years. From gold to oil and from oil to goddamn coffee. It's been fun, had good times with it.

The thing now is, BTC is a whole other level. I guess I have just been extremely lucky the passed week and a half, since we were in a rally for some time. I got out before that big drop, which was luck aswell I think.
It just irritates me that I cant understand this whole market. $70 price drops for a long or short position withing a few hours has MAJOR impact. Except for the ones whom have extremely large margin calls.

Lmao. I got my money(takes 5 days to transfer to my bank account). And I am running from this madness  I just had to throw that out there, it's INSANE!

People loaning money in bull markets never stop to amaze me.

So this was the silk road event october 2013:




And this the current event unfolding:


Striking similarities.

Who is painting these charts? Is it really "us"?

+1

Block withholding attack far more serious issue I think than people realize.

@justusranvier, it doesn't work that way.  It's the pool that is holding back the blocks not the members.

Dump walls on Finex and BTC-E are up, new lows for June incoming soonish.

Edit: BTC-e decided to market sell before itīs too late. Wise decision!

I think we hit a top here. May be retesting 520 or 530 area (Bitfinex), but I think it will definitely hold this time, we'll see. Hopefully we'll see some bullish divergence to let us know that the low is in, and the rocket primed for takeoff...

Considering only the major exchanges listed in bitcoinwisdom's menu (all in kBTC):

BTC-e 10 + Bitstamp 17 + Bitfinex 25 = 52
Huobi 57 + OKCoin 97 + BTC-China 7 = 161

If you were considering only the Chinese exchanges, beware that there are another two or three big ones, not listed by Bitcoinwisdom, that may add to 50--100 kBTC/day.

In the "West" there is also LakeBTC that was about as big as Bitstamp in volume, las time I checked.  Bitcoincharts may list them.  There are many others, but I do not know of any large enough to make a difference.

There is also substantial volume of BTC against other cryptocoins, not included in the numbers above.

Bitpay may be considered to be a one-way exchange cum payment processor. But their daily volume must be modest too.

This claim has been repeated thousands of times in the bitcoin media and forums, but never with substantive evidence.  I have found hints that some of OKCoin's transactions (but not Huobi's) may be fake, but those won't reach 10% of that site's volume.

A sufficient explanation for their large numbers is that the Chinese sites charge zero fees, so they attract more clients and each client generates more volume.  That is not "fake volume".  Moreover, as several sources pointed out, China already had a large population of amateur market speculators -- something that seems absent in the West.

On the other hand I suspect that a large fraction of the volume at the "Western" exchanges is merely arbitrage with China.  If arbitragers generate (say) 25k BTC of trade per day on each side of the "frontier", it would be 50% of the Western volume but only 15% of the Chinese one, so the disparity would only increase.

Not at all! I don't know before December, but since then the flow of yuan into or out of the mainland China exchanges was quite restricted to people with accounts in Chinese banks. 

Thus the supplies of dollars+euros and yuan available for bitcoin trading are basically isolated from each other, except perhaps for some traders.  But bitcoins can be freely transferred between continents, so if there is demand in China, that demand will be immediately felt in the West.

finally, some life in DVC! it was stuck for so long under 15 satoshis.... wonder if we see a pump to > 100 satoshis now. i've been bagholding a while.

Still

God>Astrologer>Psychic>Bag of chips

The next bubble is Wall St. 
Mark my words..

You talk too soon.

So, playing with margin has been fun, but now all it says is "System buy limit reached"

Is this a normal thing? Or am I getting zhou-tonged?

lol...."simpleton billionaires" "Stupid criminals"....lol.....pretty sure every single billionaire and probably most criminals are a lot smarter than you are.

"Most of the bitcoin cultists don't understand the psychology of criminals."..... but you do right? You have a deep understanding, dammit you understand them better than they understand themselves don't you? It's because you are so smart right? And the only reason you are still poor, still wasting your time trolling blogs in your parents basement, is because you have been unlucky right? The world is full of morons who just don't understand the deep insights you have to offer. One day, everyone will acknowledge your brilliance, because you just know how much smarter than everyone else you are. And the fact that you are a broke loser does not at all change that fact.

I get it.

Could you please tell me some more of your brilliant insights into the criminal mind? Please?

Oh and thank you for coming here and so brilliantly pointing out all we had missed. What would we do without you?

Actually you can do it later, i think i hear mummy telling you to clean your room.

Just had to buy my girlfriend a 128gb card to boost her macbook air storage. Used ebay and paypal ( newegg doesn't let Australians use bitcoins yet )

Paypal fees are one thing, their exchange rates are another. Currently it is 0.944. Paypal gave me 0.91. So another 4 bucks on top of the fees. Bitcoin may not yet be better for lots of US customers, as you don't save anything and it can be a bit of a hassle, but for the rest of us poor shmucks around the world, getting rid of exchange rate ripoffs is a big fucking deal. I'm planning on buying a new Thinkpad this year, at those kind of rates it would be $75 dollars worth of exchange rate rip off!!

I have an unhealthy attachment  with my thinkpad keyboard. Love the 16:10 screen on the gf's macbook compared to my 16:9, but i code all day, and nothing beats the thinkpad keyboard. 

On 7-10 during the 9am EDT hour the long term exponential trend line was at 613.70.  We hit 5.80 below this trend line and were pushed up with higher volume within a few hours.  The buyers seem to come in when they see us below the line.

Right now this trend line is at 628.37.  We hit 623.43, which is 4.94 below the trend line.  I expect the buyers to come in and bring us back over the trend line within the next few hours.

Tell him to look up the definition of a Ponzi scheme again.  At worst you could call bitcoin a pump and dump.

I know powerful is coming but not clear it will upside, that is why I said we are not going to break upside, it's not clear at all.

2 of 4.  

Oh well.  It really isn't that big of a "crash."  

I still don't get why people do not see the significance of a hedge fund opening this Friday.  That might change everything quickly.  

I would be panic buying based on that news alone.  Granted, I am "all in" so I have nothing more cash to throw in at this point.

They have to get coins from somewhere don't they? 

Whales are smelling blood. Dumping and putting up sell walls to keep us down. They're trying to create panic.
I'm still expecting a massive dump soon.
And it sucks.
It's a very bad sign we're going down at this point.
And the idiots screaming "cheap coins" should get a clue.

well that explains allot, next time try to calm down and maybe read/learn more, there no reason to be frustrated, 2 coins are something for your age. (more than some will ever earn)

BTW,stop calling people idiots and show some respect to people older than you.

Whale wars. 3600 wall dumped through on Huobi. Except now the whale is back pumping. Already 3200 coin in bids to 3580, 1800 to 3600. And just clashed with an ask whale ~ 3625...

All in all -- sideways.

So let me get this straight, you're gonna short after a break to the downside? If so, you have mad traderz skillz bro!  

Theres more than a $20 premium on cavirtex.com (its lagging) happy arbing!

A $50 Arb to where?  It's like you forgot about this thing called exchange rates.

I am studying today's bitcoin charts and I feel dizzy.


I am not a hodler so I don't feel any panic but I feel sad ...

All this to see that ?! ... New merchants, new ATMs, new projects, no China bans, Russia say Bitcoin might be a good thing ...

And we are going back to April-May when the price was even lower than now...

Instead of a huge step forward price is going backwards from November 2013.

If it's so easy, then post it.  But you can't because you don't know what you're talking about.

Just as I though, full of hot air.  Guess you forgot that 1USD != 1CAD, not too bright these days, are we Jag Sidhu?

Oh, you mean that sketchy dump BTC-E?    Go right ahead, you just arb that right up.  All yours tough guy.

Yes, any of them.  I've read enough horror stories about sending money to BTC-E that I wouldn't advise risking it.

Well just a warning to all ..I am planning in the next few days to try and BUY $180 usd of BTC ...so I don't spend it on something else
(and it will get me to exactly a tad more then my 50 coin benchmark/goal/fantasy? whatever)

So....you know what that means...the PRICE has to go DOWN DOWN DOWN ..because I ALWAYS buy at the wrong end of the price point

don't ya know

just a shout out to those planning on buying ...wait for me to buy first so that you can have a much better price point!

(I try to use my 'twisted' luck for good....er ..guess I need a cape with my long underwear...if I am going to
continue such a public service)

you laugh....just watch ....the moment I buy....basement warp speed

Searing
 

It's absolutely hilarious that the only person here who has been consistently right about the price movement for the past couple months -- fallllling -- was banned and his posts deleted.

It really is true... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

This happened so many times since 1200. So how much did you buy?

many people feel we still need to revisit low 360 ish territory and maybe crash through, I don't see a need in it...besides bears being negative to the year of forward progress in the fundamentals.

Walls are contrarian indicators

It is simple. Price next year will reach between $4,000 - $15,000

You would be stupid not to buy right now.

HORRY Sheet!!!   We are gonna have 2 more years of a bullish stock market?  Wow?  You are suggesting until the 2016 presidential elections?   What about the 2014 elections?  Sometimes economies are propped up for elections.. but you believe that they can prop the economy for two more years?

Yeah... o.k. but just because there is incredible quantities of buying on the dips.. that is ongoing, that does NOT indicate that such buying inclinations are going to continue 2 months from now. 

Maybe we could all give a ratt's ass about elections; however, the truth of the matter is that they frequently seem to have consequences.. including propping type manipulations before the elections.

I am NOT attempting to make any systematic argument, and 2008 had its own unique circumstances - including the terming out of a president.

Otherwise, you seem to be making a lot of my argument for me in terms of the tottering state of the current USD printing press.  In other words, does anybody believe that they can keep up the smoke and mirrors for another 2 years. 

Don't get me wrong, I would NOT conclude the total collapse of the US economy for at least 10 years, maybe even 20 to 30 years...   On the other hand, the stock market is another animal..

anyhow, it seems to me to be pretty likely that the stock market is going to have a significant adjustment within the next year, and BTC prices are very likely going to skyrocket within the next year.. Could be likely that they are related events....

meanwhile doge gets pumped again, im thinking of buying some 

No don't say a dump is coming. Only post wonderful things about bitcoin in this thread, or it's "off topic".

So without further adieu, here's my latest estimate of bitcoin price forecast, based on my longterm trend line. Thoughts?

2014: $450
2015: $2600
2016: $12,000
2017: $57,900
2018: $236,984
2019: $1 million

is dis coin dead yet?

Sooo,no to da moon soon  

So what is the target?

you communicate with your son through bitcointalk?

or are you telling him to sell your son?

weird...

2billion "bitshares" losing value, bullish for BTC

I have to admit its interesting.

i am skeptical as to its long term success tho  

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/feds-butterfly-labs-mined-bitcoins-on-customers-boxes-before-shipping/

These guys were capital A Assholes...holy fudge.

Man I don't why it never clicked to be that a machine testing should be tied to a customer order, the coins are then mined and sent to the customer's address sans hosting fees. Easy peezy keep the customer happy while avoiding any breakdowns from not being able to test machinery.

i believe he CLAIMS to have made anywhere between 8-15%

8   or 15  %

thats a rather large gap...

There's actually quite a lot wrong with it. And I'm not even an expert. The first thing that caught my eye was the texture but look at it, they don't even have the "machine" properly centered. That could potentially be a stylistic choice but isn't.

The perspective is funky too.

Got a mail from Ebay, announcing that Ebay and Paypal will be independent companies as of 2015. Is that the cause for the price rise? Rockets fueling up...

We are headed to $300

I'm sorry to bring you this news but drawing lines on a chart doesn't work. It's a total waste of time.

I edited that post to clarify a bit. Basically, the megawall on $300 was being upkept for awhile, But not anymore. Bulls are exhausted

It's possible. Buying pressure through market orders is way up this week. Something has to give.

I think you silenced the bears, their cries of "bitcoin hurts baby Jesus" seem to have died out.

yea who cares.  Why is it falllllllling?

Some people have invested to much, loans, etc.
This crash will cost them their house, wife, etc.

 

sure but it can go lower

we can be WAY oversold for a long time

markets don't HAVE to act rationally

bitcoin has proved that to be fact.

Everyone waiting to see if the Huobi wall at 2000 holds.
Hint: it won't.

Down from 4k to 2.5k in last 60 minutes.

Alright..... a potential bet... Yippeeee!!!!

By the way, in the past few minutes, we just had a 500BTC dump on Stamp... brought the price down $5 then  it bounced up again... we will see?

Just tonight im down for 60btc if you give me odds... plz give your random bearish predictions and lets do an escrow deal. Done! Thanks for $18k+

Good morning, a lazy Sunday morning... but most importantly $250 till the next weekend ?

I would NOT bet on these terms, but that is NOT to say that a couple or more than two of you cannot find terms upon which you could bet and agree to the terms of the bet.

Second, it does NOT seem necessary to bet 60BTCto make a point regarding your conviction about the direction of the market.

Even betting 1 BTC or even .5BTC should be sufficient to demonstrate that someone has a strong conviction and/or certainty regarding the direction of the market.

Huobi wall going down and then it's flash crash 

You're doing it wrong.

china is uber bullish so we will never see a flash crash in china.. it must br close im convinced of $7k after today and price action

So how do I cash in on this when you're wrong?

500 BTC ok and Theymos as escrow?

Nah, that's not enough to be fun. We'll just have to see if you're right.

You can always put up the rest.

What are the terms. What exactly are you saying is going to happen. I read it to mean you expect the price to go lower than it has been recently and fast. It that right?

Ah, then I misunderstood your post. It sounded to me like you were saying the price is fixing to tank.

I always believed that anyone sitting constantly watching this thread and trying to predict movement was playing with a lot of coin. It hardly seems worth it to me if your not.

That's exactly what I thought you were trying to do. Scare people off.

I don't think it takes anything special to be a gambler. But all the negative - it's gonna drop really low is keeping it down. A lot of people read this silly thread and don't post and take the advice of people that really don't know what's going to happen.

But they assume that the people posting here have and they can lose big time. I will assume that you have all the experience and degrees in trading and you are giving sound advise. What if I acted on it and sold everything waiting for this big drop than never happened? That's bad.

Went well?

Donīt worry dyland, your loss was somebodyelses gain.

it will always be a zero-sum game.

and if you want any advice:

never mount a rising horse.

debating an a rather large bet here... large wall on virtex would allow me to do it with no slippage... fucking tempting...

Just noticed the RSI has been at its lowest on the larger (3-day) graphs since 2011, we are still waaaay oversold.

CCMF


On a side note are there any exchanges which have had a pretty consistent volume on a large timescale?

Bitstamp only goes back to late 2011 and the volume back then was nothing until gox went down

You know the cardinal rule about women, right? Hot, single, sane. Pick two.

Yeah, but at 44, it's tricky dating the 18 year-olds. Tricky, but not impossible 

this chart literally PROVES the next few hours are critical! 

what if there is 10,000 unverified account each with and avg of 1000$ that need to be withdrawn in BTC  

The fuck is going on with the price im.hammered  I'm at the nas concert in downtown vancouver

The end is nigh, sell up and get out now. Made-up money about to fail, low volume rebound signals further declines on the dow.

EDIT: The made-up money to get out of there isn't bitcoin btw. Apple just hit an all time high during a market correction, that should be a clear enough hint to anyone that there's something wrong with this picture.

CMOON YOU BITCH GO UP!!!!

The latest dump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Tdw5nG4dQ

http://fortune.com/2014/10/24/bitcoin-fraud-scam/

 

This is how it works:

Why is my $370 order getting margin called at $354??

It should be 5% no?? I.E 351.5

Satoshi has been found...again! and arrested, too! SELL! SELL! SELL!

http://nationalreport.net/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto-arrested-identity-revealed/

Monkey, over the past couple of months, has done pretty well on sovereigns and metals, less well on equities, so-so on currencies, and absolutely abyssymally on oil recently -- he keeps calling a bottom prematurely in oil, although right now he wants me to wait a couple of weeks before attempting to go long again.  I may just do that, depending on the circumstances, probably via low-debt small-cap services companies which I would not mind holding for the long-haul.

Monkey wants me to sell BTC intraday, but on a daily chart he says buy twice as hard, so I'm waiting for a better intraday entry to follow his daily advice.  Monkey thinks it is possible for a new BTC hype cycle to launch in 3-4 months, unlikely before that, although he also thinks the first early bullish signal that a new cycle is immanent is likely to be seen in a break over 425 in the next couple of weeks.

Did you hear the interview with vitalik where he mentioned a two tier coin?

Like a symbiotic secure coin and volatility coin pair, where the volatility coin would provide the needed liquidity to keep the price of the stable coin stable?

Also some stuff about hybrid pos/pow systems, and how the miners really have no power in the system at all. If the wallet holders, the people that run the full nodes and the core wallet software decide to fork, the miners are kinda out of luck... can't even mount an attack at that point if you were to change to something other than sha-256...

Was very interesting to me, and thought it might be interesting to you, as a fellow miner. Hang on one sec I'm get the link

Edit* https://epicenterbitcoin.com/podcast/058/

@17:30 - forcing every miner to run a full node, eliminating the efficiency and centralization of pools, (not sure if this would actually work to fix centralization, but interesting nonetheless)

@33:15 decentralized proof of stake pools, kinda interesting, still doesn't fix the problem of large stake holders controlling a fixed amount of the issuance, but still intriguing.

LOL we will gladly leave your dumb fuck ass in the Shadows.

Thatīs a familiar pattern here. When it becomes too predictable it stops panning out I guess. Weīll see what weīll see. Good luck, g

Damn, short interest is starting to build up... I just started taking profits $294 now

the FUD is unwarranted even if we keep the 1MB limit ( which we aren't ) all that would really do for the foreseeable future is price out mirco TX's and bring the TX cost at about 10cents, buying over priced coffee is still feasible, and we are still undercut paypals 2% +50cents TX fee massively

Citation needed.

Bitcoin is a decentralized Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System, even if it can't run on a Raspberry Pi connected to a slow internet connection.  Satoshi talked about what you call the "centralization" of bitcoin, as natural evolution of the consensus layer, and envisioned SPV clients. The time to increase the block size was when bitcoin had established a solid value, the fact that its been delayed so much is hurting bitcoin big time, and you know it.

Reminds me of arguments with my brother. He'd pull that same shit.

Hmmm. Well potentially they already have the necessary infrastructure for their new coin if they decide to repurpose it away from Bitcoin...

Rasmussen polling accidentally releases report showing landslide Trump victory:

Yes, and then was abruptly cut off by Creem of Sum Yung Guy.



BTC

I hope there won't be a test. I'm already bored. It's an alt coin 

Buy the dip now and get ready to take off to a whole new level ?

Yeah... you get the feeling that you want to denigrate bitcoin because you want to pump your stupid-ass alt in the wrong thread..

get your ass over to the alts section with other pump and dump distractors

JJG's got a valid point. The mods have so far let you slide with your altcoin pumping in this Bitcoin thread. I'm sure they'll delete it when they notice. So thanks for the xmas present. Now vamoose back to the dank corner of this site where altpumpage is on-topic.

And happy holidays to you too.

Listen. I want btc backup in the moon as much as the next guy but after that kind of pump I think its going to take months before we find the floor and start coming back up. But im not a professional trader so dont trade on my advice or opinion please.

If you want a cleaner implementation, bitcoin classic also supports a flag for specifying block size.  As for the "shit show" comment, can you explain why letting miners determine blocksize is a problem?  If it is a problem, we'd better hope they aren't able to get their hands on gcc or we are all screwed.

Bitcoin as a settlement layer would mean you'd always be dealing with derivatives of bitcoin in order to do day to day transactions that increase it's counter party risk even higher than it is now, and everyone knows bitcoin's counter party risk is already higher than metals in the first place.  There is no situation ever in which bitcoin has less counter party risk than metals, especially when you're using bitcoin derivatives.  

A normal human actually can be their own banker with metals, but with bitcoin there are a million external counter party risk factors that can implode it - like whatever a random bitcoin dev decides to do after waking up in the morning.  Then the fact that if people are going to claim bitcoin is never actually "finished", it's a centralized technocracy by default on the software side and centralized by economy of scale on the mining side.

Can you make money with bitcoin?  Sure.  But don't pretend it's actually solved any problems to make metals obsolete.  Contrary to popular opinion that bitcoin "works" because it's existed for 8 years, this is misleading.  You can start timing the date of whether bitcoin works or not from the point where all micro-transactions are forced off-chain and all on-chain transactions are settlement payments with derivatives of those settlements (such as LN) being used for commerce - with block reward also gone, surviving off transaction fees.

Bitcoin can currently derive price entirely from just being a wild speculative gamble, but the closer you get to the endgame, the more the price will be derived from if the economics and use case makes any sense - and whether economy of scale makes it completely centralized or not.  As I said above, I don't think it has a valid use case as a store of value or settlement layer, so this means it's only hope is LN + vast amounts of transactions and then it's value I guess would be held up by acting as some type of paypal-like processor.

As everybody knows, gold and silver don't really require high transaction flow and turnover, but bitcoin's price is entirely high transaction flow based.  This is why bitcoin as a settlement layer without derivatives of those settlements that are also deemed to be "trustless" has never made any sense.

You're just being irrationally biased now.  Everyone knows metals are more fungible, more anti-fragile, and less counter party risk.  This means Bitcoin can never dethrone metals as a store of value or hope to compete with them on Exter's pyramid.  If you're acting as a settlement layer, you're attempting to compete with metals as a store of value and Bitcoin CANNOT do it.  This means Bitcoin has to derive value more from raw transaction flow and being a payment processor instead.  

This is why I think Bitcoin probably doesn't have a value proposition without large scaling.  The lightning network claims to be able to do that, but I'm not convinced it can do so in a decentralized manner when economy of scale already forces centralization in the base bitcoin network in the first place.  Bitcoin did not "solve" the decentralization problem.   Bitcoin is a centralization problem waiting for someone to solve it.

As for solving that centralization problem, to do so you would likely need to engineer it so it's impossible to practice usury in bitcoin.  The only way I can think of to do that is either unprofitable PoW (which probably can't work in practice), or by some really exotic system of decentralized captchas where anyone attempting to solve blocks requires manual human intervention and can't be automated on cruise control via CPUs as I talked about in the thread below.

You cannot have decentralization without engineering bitcoin so automated usury is impossible

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1700073.0

Whether you believe "god" is a person, quantum fluctuation, whatever, metals are a blockchain created by "god"; bitcoin is a blockchain created by people.  The blockchain created by people can never compete because it will always have more flaws or side channel attacks that render it useless.  I have a feeling anything blockchain related will forever be a Rube Goldberg machine that claims to accomplish some type of task, but in reality fails to accomplish that task (decentralization) while doing it an extremely complicated manner.

ATH in price is only one side of the coin. the other is market cap.

in 2013 the market cap was ~12B at its peak, and litecoin was less than $100M.

today bitcoin is almost $19B, and the next 5 top coins have a combined $2B.

cryptocurrency as an entire sector is up 8 *BILLION* dollars, or ~66% since the 2013 peak.

duh, thats how market cap works.

I don't think there are many reasons to celebrate this huge value of bitcoin... it seems like a 100% bubble to me now.

I've a transaction awaiting a single confirmation for 4 consecutive days... Even though I paid some 0.001 bitcoin as fee.

Perhaps not only disconnected but negatively correlated. ETH (and XRP) falling means BTC dominance in percent going up, and some investors think along the lines of "if Btc ever loses its top position then all trust in crypto is lost". A price correction of some over-inflated altcoins makes the market look more sane and less bubbly.

Ok, people.  I'm tired of fucking around with ambiguous definitions:  Is bitcoin decentralized?  Does bitcoin have value? etc.  I have decided to address these issues from proof of work to proof of stake where a normal human can easily quantify if Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency has value and whether it will live or die:

http://steemit.com/steemit/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-14-defining-if-cryptocurrency-has-a-value-or-zero-value-from-a-fundamental-scientific-perspective

It's relatively short to read, but if you want the TLDR version, my stance is that proof of stake has no value whatsoever and I explain why, and proof of work with ASIC is almost functionally the same thing (externalized proof of stake) in practice and would also have no value.  I don't think anyone will find a valid argument against this post.

You can't be serious.  You're basically making the argument that anything where someone has not double spent *YET* or *CONSTANTLY* is automatically decentralized.  That's not how this works.  You are not automatically proven to be decentralized with a functional Nash equilibrium until mass armageddon begins.  It is ironic that the ASIC factory sunk cost is the only reason there is not constant double spend, but those same ASICs also make the system inherently worthless and the equivalent of a closed entropy system at the same time.

"Kraken Raises Bitcoin Withdrawal Transaction Fees to $7"

lol, fuck this rent seeking usury system.  

It's going to be interesting to see how many blockchain cheerleaders are left when the transaction fees are like $50 and all transactions are faith based off-chain.  The Gavinator did once say high fees are a great problem to have but I don't think he had this in mind.  Another thing that's always amused me about bitcoin is how they renamed Orwellian police state where all transactions are traced and monitored to "blockchain" and suddenly people thought it was cool.  What's up with that?

Scenario:
Apocalypse happens, but the worldwide internet still works.
But you and your family find yourself starving for food, about to die.
You have 10- 1oz. gold coins.
You meet a man on the street that has two chickens.
You ask to buy one of the chickens.
He asks you if you have some bitcoin.
You say you don't.
You then ask him how much gold would he take for one of the two chickens.
He says all 10 of your gold coins.
And you know what? If you're family is starving, you'll give him all of them or you will die.

Congrats, you just paid $13K for one meal for your family, and now you don't have any gold coins left.
Even if you haggled him down to just 1 coin, you still probably overpaid.

Yeah, gold is so perfect as a form of barter.  

The likelihood of a worldwide apocalyptic event is staggeringly small. What could possibly happen to make every nation in the world including small islands in the Pacific to lose power, food, water, energy, etc?

A shtf event is more likely to hit one country ala Venezuela right now where Bitcoin is very useful. Or even a world war would leave small pockets of untouched nations that would welcome you and your bitcoins (your gold as well).

My shtf plan is mobility. First sign of bad things coming and I find my next country to live in. And they all take bitcoin.

Im sending funds tomorrow and hope this sale lasts, but a 50% crash would be something!

I let my comments stand where they may, too, and it seems to make little to no difference that you are "running a business." 

The same principles apply regarding cashflow management and figuring out ways to minimize the need to make sales of a volatile asset at the potential bottom... that is if you have any kind of choice and control in structuring those kinds of matters... .. whether my comments apply to your situation or not, that is up to you to decide and apparently you are deciding that my comments do not apply to your situation.   I have no problem with that because you should know your situation better than anyone else, and I was merely commenting upon the situation that you seemed to have been presenting.

Further,  I understand that if you have a business that is structured to merely sell no matter what the price, then that seems to be a different story, and might not even warrant a comment in this thread because the business is set up that way, since in that kind of case you would have been selling no matter what the price... and just perhaps hoping the price would have been higher... but may not really matter, if you already set up the business in that kind of .. sell right away way.

r0ach loves to keep spouting this. Over and over. But he refuses to ever explain how he intends to transact with someone overseas in another country with PMs and avoid middlemen or 3rd party transfer fees. Or even go to Walmart, Target, or Starbucks and buy something, anything with it without avoiding the exchange into fiat via 3rd party (and thus another fee). Or... or... the fkn list can go on forever.

So I guess all a PM coin is good for is... transacting with your neighbor down the street? If Apocalypse cometh?

Well r0ach? We're still waiting. Oh I know, you'll just go scurrying back into your little hole for a while without answer the question. Once again. 

ETH created too many millionaires. Time to give some back.

Quiet you!

Really?
You seem to be very scared!

If you think that there is such a "rule", then your thinking is deluded.

Sure, sometimes there is correlation... sometimes there is coattail dynamics, sometimes there is pumpening that goes beyond bitcoin, but these are not rules..   Every pump and dump cycle has it's own dynamics that may not be exactly predictable, but in this case there does seem to be some possible recognition of value.. that is bitcoin is much fucking more valuable than a bunch of copycat white papers, claiming to be bitcoin 2.0, with features that largely could be built upon bitcoin or a sidechain of bitcoin..  So it is not that the alts do not provide some value, but frequently their issuing of coins causes way more perception of value rather than fundamental value in terms of various networking and building that takes time rather than pure theories.

Don't be ridiculous.  A 20% to 50% fall in various alts (or even in the alt market overall) is not necessarily going to have any real dampening effect on bitcoin.   In other words there does not have to be a direct correlation (nor causation) for bitcoin to appreciate 50% or 100% in the coming weeks.

You are trying to act as if the tail wags the dog, and dogs just don't work like that (and neither do tails).    

Well, whatever is the proper term, we do not need a bunch of these ICOs that are claiming to be able to do something better than bitcoin.. whether it is a sidechain or some other technical way in which a lot of the various proposed functionality (to the extent that they are valuable within bitcoin and blockchain) will likely become part of bitcoin or some kind of related bitcoin appendage.

You are coming off as a bit of a pretentious prick, in your attempt to assert that you have some kind of deeper understanding of the importance of alts - without citing any authority but merely referring to supposed authority and making vague amorphous statements about seeming inadequacies of bitcoin to provide certain use cases.

No matter the case, we can make our investment choices, and you seem to be a bit out of place here, in this thread, if you want to uptalk the importance of alts (and their supposed contribution the the crypto space).  Largely and generally, alts are copying bitcoin, and trying to find various use cases to distinguish themselves from bitcoin.  Sure some of the uses of these alt coins are going to get absorbed into bitcoin - whether you refer to the vague authority of some nonspecific reddit thread or otherwise (is that r/btc, by the way?)....

Anyhow, none of us are the complete knowledge of any of these crypto-space dynamics and there is a whole hell-of-a lot going on in the space - so I am not claiming to be some kind of deity regarding which alt cryptos are going to possibly be more useful than others, and I really don't give too much of a ratt's ass about them.  Right now, the main player on the block remains bitcoin, and likely we are experiencing some realization from the crypto community regarding that reality..... .so all of this does not conclude that there are not some decent and wonderful cryptospace developments that are not pump and dumps, and surely there are - but I would suggest most of us keep our eyes on the prize, which remains bitcoin, and do not get too distracted by the multitude of bullshit alts that you are amorphously trying to claim some kind of importance.. and amorphously claiming BTC to be in adequate in order that you can perpetuate your nonsense and seemingly pro altcoin thesis.

Where the fuck is all this money coming from ?!??

Debunking more shitcoiner lies:

Amazing how every single word out of Sidhujag's mouth is a lie.  Remember when you claimed gold was going to $800 and then eventually pennies after that when it was $1050 because "the world has no more use for gold now that bitcoin exists" HAHA.  Secondly, nobody really gives a shit what lies come out of the mouth of Ethereum spook Szabo, a Goldman Sachs pump and dump congame from day one.  You might as well be citing the name Jordan Belfort as your appeal to authority after the guy became involved in that Goldman Sachs operation.  

It is not possible to create a decentralized digital currency.  They are all designed to centralize garbage.  One can be forgiven for mistakenly thinking this stuff might be decentralized if you're a noob to the scene, but for people like Szabo and Antonopolous to continuously pump out these lies day after day promoting non-fungible, centralized, permissioned ledgers to help bankers enslave people in a cashless society tracking grid when they know better is pushing it.