Woh, thanks for the pre-bedtime epilepsy attack   

So now we're insulting each other for not knowing each other's languages.  So progressive.

Mate, you really shouldn't post in a public forum your email address and your Mt.Gox account number.  I'd recommend you edit your post for security reasons.  Just some friendly advice.

EDIT - hidden his email address and account number (!)

Just thought I would introduce myself, since I haven't been on this forum very long, although I have been reading it for the last several thousand posts.

I'm in Australia (but not Australian), I heard about bitcoins through traditional media back in April.  It sparked my interest but I was too busy to be able to allocate any significant time to investigating further.  I speculatively bought in at the beginning of May when price was £60 (sorry, I trade in GBP), having just missed £50.  Watched price go up to £87 at the end of May, didn't sell (regretfully) and then watched it drop to £70, at which point I cashed out.  Made a tidy profit (almost entirely by luck) but not as much as it could have been, but that's trading for you.

I'm a trader by day job (commodities, FOREX) and so I was very interested to see what was happening with bitcoin.  Some observations that I thought I'd share with you, primarily to give you an insight into the perspective of a non-mining, non-IT guy with little knowledge of bitcoin but extensive knowledge of traditional markets (and these are the probbaly the same type of guys who are currently manipulating the bitcoin value):

* bitcoin can be compared to neither commodities nor fiat currency at this stage.  It doesn't have the trading volume to be considered a currency (you can't get in and out quickly and you can't use leverage) and it doesn't have a substantial supply/demand market, nor a real 'use' (yet) to be considered comparable to a commodity
* as such, drawing any kind of line on a chart is utterly pointless, since the usual 'rules' (which are dubious in any case) certainly won't apply here.  Even more so considering that past history (pre-April, say) did not include many traders such as myself.  Now it does, so previous trends can be ignored since we now have a lot of price manipulation going on
* price movements are currently being caused entirely by speculation (or 99% at least)
* steady, sustainable price growth will only occur with a much higher volume of trades and with mass adoption
* the volatility of the price is what has attracted day/short term traders
* the illiquidity of the market is what has caused fiat to leave in recent weeks (this was my reason, it became too difficult to capitalise on price fluctuations unless they were arounf 5% due to lack of bid volume)

So, my conclusion (as unhelpful as it is) is that nobody can predict the price of bitcoin since it does not follow any traditional rules.  As such, you can dive in and then jump out again, over a period of time, with a 50/50 chance of making a gain.  Unless you have a very large holding through which you can temporarily manipulate the price.

I'm currently 100% fiat again, looking for a suitable price to buy back in (very speculatively, I'm looking at something around USD52, since I think USD50 will be a psychological trigger with mass-buy in, that will see the beginning of a steady, sustainable, non-bubbled climb)

Having said all this, the more I learn about bitcoin, the more I think that it has fantastic potential.  However, you simply can't allow emotion to influence your position.  Anyone who is trading based on the "bitcoin ideology" is, frankly, exceptionally foolish. Holding some bitcoins that you can afford to lose, in the hope that a bitcoin will be worth $1k in a few years, is fine.  Holding some bitcoins that you can't afford to lose, in the hope that a bitcoin will be worth $1k in a few years, is absurd.

I appreciate that posters get shot down for all sorts of reasons here but I'm just sharing with you what I believe, based on my experience of traditional trading.  I don't know anything about mining, bitcoin history or the current or future impact of Silk Road, and as a trader nor am I really that interested. Hope it helps and more than happy to discuss further.

And a final thing - should I make Jaroslaw my first ignoree?!

Yeah, I realised that straight away, doh    I'll go and edit my post too!

Cheers mate. Just because I transfered cash from a UK bank account. Mt Gox seem to charge an additional 2.5% if you want to change currency.  I'm regetting that a bit, but I believe (maybe incorrectly) that the global market is available regardless of currency.

I'm guessing it's because most traders (including well backed ones) are spooked by the fact that this is entirely unregulated.  If Mt.Gox gets taken down, who do they raise a law suit against to try to get their cash back?  This prevents most traditional traders from getting into it.

I considered it to be a HUGE risk to deposit c.£30k (c. USD$50k) into a Japanese bank account with zero chance of recourse should they decide to make a run for it or be brought down by the Feds.

I decided to grow some balls and go for it.  Either I have bigger balls than most traditional traders or I'm more reckless. Time will tell, I suppose....

EDIT - sorry, that was meant to be a response to "stereotype".  Spot the newb forum user!

Fair enough, but why do you think it isn't sensible?

No, not at all.  I bought in with no idea which way it would go, with the intention of watching it very closely (almost to the exclusion of anything else), ready to cut my losses if the prices dropped more than 20% after I had bought in, and to either sell or hold if the price were to rise.  That's day trading, or short term trading, defined.

Well yes, that's a possibility, I may be in the minority in my approach I suppose (but I don't think so).  Of course I had a suspicion that the price would rise (otherwise why would I buy in?).  My point is that lines on charts generally only serve to give reassurance to the drawer of the line that their current theory is the correct side of the 50/50.

Anyway, this is speculation so we're not all going to agree.  If we did all agree, there'd be nothing to buy in to   Peace right back at you.

Yes, it is really.  Day trading is very much gambling, it tends not to rely on past performance (given the short period of involvement) which is likely only to be relevant over a longer period of time.

In this particular market, yes.  In fact, in pretty much any market.  Let's assume that we all think that one bitcoin will be worth $1000 in 2015, or 2014, or Sep this year.  This will have next to zero impact whatsoever on how the price of one bitcoin will change between now and 24 hours from now, or a week from now.

+1  Couldn't agree more

No, that's entirely wrong (the text I've made bold). If you're in it for the medium to long term then yes, I agree with you. But I'm not (at the moment).  It entirely depends on your timescale. I don't want to get into a protracted and largely meaningless to-and-fro, but my experience is that long term trends do not affect short-term traders.  They affect long-term traders.

Statistically, long-to medium term, I agree with you, so peace.

Yes, I think so

Absolutely! That's why I joined this forum, to try to tap into some of that market sentiment. However, how significant is that sentiment now that the majority of trades (in terms of volume) are carried out by unsentimental conventional traders?

Enough already.  Ignored.  Goodbye.

Respect for the honesty Nice one

The G8 talks are currently being held in UK and this story is getting quite a bit of airtime on BBC at the moment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22948369

Washington is continuing to put pressure on Swiss banks to hand over details of US bank account holders.  Potentially, account holders could end up looking for another anonymous place to store their wealth.  Maybe bitcoin could benefit...

Very informative, thanks

If there were proof then I'd be unlikely to post it in the "speculation" forum    Make note of my use of the words "maybe" and "potentially" and then, well, do whatever you like

Whilst we all know the difficulties associated with trying to withdraw USD from Mt.Gox at the moment, has anyone had any success trying to withdraw in other currencies?

Specifically, I'm hoping to find out whether I could withdraw GBP back into the same UK bank account from which my Gox account was originally funded, without it taking more than a few days. Then potentially jump ship and head over to another exchange. Not 100% sure yet but just considering options.

Any first-hand experiences out there? Cheers guys.

Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question - I'm not seeking speculative replies concerning the future of Gox, just whether anyone has successfully withdrawn anything other than USD and how long it took.  FYI, I am already out of Gox, 100% bitcoin.

 

or just buy bitcoins with it, like everyone else is doing...

The front page of the Mt.Gox website states that it is "the only multi-currency Bitcoin trading platform where you can trade with the entire world in your local currency."

Unless they're deceiving us 

You're assuming there's just one individual making every purchase over the last month???

Sorry, I misinterpreted your meaning. Each recent substantial move has been one market buy, yes I agree. It's not likely that each substantial move over the past month has been caused by the same buyer though. I think it's likely that these are just separate individuals with a few $k to invest (especially at the moment, given the low market depth, since it only takes a few $k to move the price substantially i.e. by $6 or $7 as happened in the past hour).

Or.......just some individual investors buying some bitcoins
Or.......just some individuals who would prefer to buy bitcoins rather than have fiat sitting with an exchange which might go bust at any moment

Who knows...

Except that it wasn't simultaneous, it was more likely a response to the Gox trade.

Respect for your post, all the same.

I just watched that 155 wall get completely eaten by a market order, almost pushing through to 156....

and only if you managed to somehow get fiat back into your bank account

5,000 BTC left until we reach $200 (and lots of publicity)
10,000 BTC left until we reach $225
15,000 BTC left until we reach $266 (all time high, loads more publicity)
20,000 BTC left until we reach $500

and then only:

21,000 BTC left until we reach $1,000
21,400 BTC left until we reach $1,660

I know it's not quite that simple and this is just one exchange (which is maybe in its death throes).....

But...WOW! Interesting times, hold onto your hats!

(EDIT: Feel free to subtract over 1,000 BTC from all of those numbers following a >1k buy into 180 whilst I was typing)

Who knows.  Demand is clearly exceeding supply at the moment.

The US are going to have a Saturday morning surprise when they wake up in a few hours from now

A couple of k sold in panic perhaps, but you're right - only a minor effect.  If it can break 200, it feels like this could run away

Check out the massive Gox trading lag back then - how did anyone know what to do???

Cheers, yeah I bought in at the end of April, so I missed all of that entertainment!

Or a lot of coins could leave Gox, no?  I mean, why would anyone want to be depositing coins with Gox when there is little chance of withdrawing USD from there?

Why this continual assumption that "one guy" is responsible?   

I wouldn't normally waste time on taking issue with this sort of thing, but in the few months that I've been using this forum, I've seen that all of your posts are derogatory and not in the slightest bit constructive.  You sound like a whining teenager.  Consider yourself added to my ignore list.

And why in blocks of 324 BTC, seems to be a completely arbitrary number?

I've just yesterday morning done an international wire from UK to Bitstamp but it hasn't arrived yet.  Can you do SEPA from UK? Was it from a Euro account?

Thanks guys, that's helpful.

I went for the international transfer option in order to save on conversion fees, but I seem to have lost way more than that by having to hang around a bit longer whilst watching the price rocket.  Ah well.

I've been all BTC since I pulled them out of Gox back in August so can't complain too much - holding policy has worked very nicely   For the first time though, a friend has just asked me to buy BTC for him, so I've just opened a BitStamp account solely for this purpose and, hopefully, to buy more for others in the future.  The word is clearly spreading quickly.  Happy days.

Have any fellow Brits opted for opening an account with Coinfloor?

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-bitcoin-exchange-coinfloor-opens

They started accepting account registrations on Tue 29 Oct.  After registering that day, a week later my post-logon landing page still says "Thanks! Please await further instructions by email. It will take us up to 2 working days to process your application."

Just wondering if anyone else here has made any further progress with Coinfloor.  And any thoughts anyone may have on their potential?

[sorry if slightly off-topic, but if it takes off we may then have another exchange's walls to observe!]

Stamp and btcchina not reacting to price plummet on Gox....

EDIT: ah, now they are

And now bouncing back up.  If it can bounce back up to $250 immediately, then this is very bullish indeed.  It shows holders are not panicking at all?  Still small volumes though, so not too meaningful...

I try not to keep any BTC anywhere which might enable me to panic and reaction sell, for this very reason (not so I can eat cheetos, however.  In fact, wtf are cheetos?)

Ah, we call em "Wotsits" over here.  Exceptionally cheese dust keyboard slip inducing.

What a fun night.  Must buy popcorn

Nicely through 250 again, maybe it's time to go to bed and see what this rollercoaster brings in the morning.  Unless I can think of something profound to say in order to earn three coins under my name....

Now that really would be profound. Aha, I've done it 

I had the same thoughts/questions too.  Also, Bitstamp about to reach another ATH?  I want to see those flashy lights for the first time, I was sleeping when we popped it earlier today.

Yup, same coins just expressed in a different currency

I just saw my first ever All Time High, on Bitstamp.  Off to get some tissues.....

There's a chance, albeit slim, that he might be trying to prevent the price from rising too quickly, to prevent a bubble pop like last April. I don't believe that, but I'd like to....

Good to see that a 1k sell on Gox has an almost negligible effect, immediate bounce back.  C'mon Moby Dick, just pull that wall and let us see 300 before bed time

It's 1k smaller than it was an hour ago.  Off to bed with similar hopes....

Stamp at ATH, Stamp flying past Gox, wall getting chomped. When is it safe to go to bed?

I just can't go to sleep yet.  With this buying pressure, if that wall gets fully munched then we could watch the price rise faster than we've ever seen before.  Only 2800 left.  Time for some toast I think

Woh - lift off?

Check out http://bitcoinity.org/markets/mtgox/USD  and you'll see stepped bid or ask sums, also known as "walls".  It was stuck on $266.90 for a couple of hours, now there's a smaller wall at $270 which looks like it will also get bought into

Although, I'm not sure how it just reached at ATH of $274.60 when there's still a $270 wall?  Just lag with the charts?

So nice to wake up and see yellow text first thing in the morning.  300 before breakfast perhaps.

300 to 305 in a matter of seconds. Wow

Calling himself a "Business Insider" - that's a joke.  His lack of understanding about....ah forget it, I'm not wasting my time

Agreed.  The difference between now and the April bubble burst is that the public have now heard about bitcoin, with plenty of articles in the mainstream media about the price, ATMs, Silk Road, ebay, etc etc.  There's way too much interest now for the price to fall back to $100, I reckon. Hopefully.

It's unfortunate that new adopters typing "bitcoin exchange" into Google will still see Gox at the top of the search results.  That's exactly what I did back in April/May (although I was partly influenced in sending them my cash on the basis that they were the biggest guys around at the time and claiming to have had 80% of the market a few months earlier, a claim which they obviously can't now make).

n.b. I'm now on Bitstamp

It's a pity we can't warn new folk to avoid Mt.Gox.  How can they best be warned that they'll get their USD stuck there (EDIT: and now maybe their BTC too) so that "I can't get my money back" doesn't become a story which the mainstream media pick up on, thereby hurting Bitcoin's credibility in the eyes of the public/future investors?

Yup, the store of wealth concept is the main driver of prices at this stage, not whether you can buy day-to-day items with it.  The store of wealth value will only remain if investors think they can get their fiat back easily and quickly, whenever they want to (hence my concern in my earlier post #40716)

+1

Just waking up to see that, thankfully, I missed the action - sleep made me continue on my longterm hold policy.  As various others have said here, holding seems to have been the most profitable action anyone could have taken throughout the last six months, unless you have sufficient coins to massively manipulate the market.

Keep on holding I reckon, or risk missing the boat (replace "boat" with "rocket" or "moon" if you prefer that lingo)

Sorry to be critical, but I don't really see the point?

If I wasn't already all in, I would go all in  Expecting to see demand tomorrow once bank transfers land in exchanges following the weekend.  Btw, did we establish that tomorrow is definitely a bank holiday in USA?  Or just Poland?

Bitstamp now only $5 below Gox.  Some folk must be making the most of arb opportunities  - the folk running Gox probably!

I would be interesting to compile a chart to see mean % gains/losses for each weekday

So for Christmas next year I can give myself retirement as a present?  Hold, hold, hold.

[I just posted this in the Bitcoin Discussion Forum but I usually hangout here, so forgive me for posting it again here]

After seeing the tragedy unfolding in the Philippines over the last couple of days, I felt the need to donate to a disaster relief charity here in UK (http://www.dec.org.uk/appeals/philippines-typhoon-appeal).

I was pleasantly surprised that the charity accepts donations via PayPal, which led me to send an email to them to ask whether they had considered accepting BTC too.  It then struck me that if a charity were to receive lots of similar requests, they could begin to consider it as a means of receiving donations.  After all, charities are pretty hard up these days and are always looking for innovative ways of raising money.  BTC seems absolutely perfect for charitable giving/receiving, especially across international borders: no transaction fees = more money straight to the charity.

Then, with my speculative hat on  I figured that if a big name charity were to begin to accept BTC it could generate lots of positive publicity ("Oxfam accepts Bitcoin", etc).

Let us all bombard household name charities with requests for them to accept BTC (obviously, you must be willing to donate something too!).

although I still can't see why anyone would even consider wiring fiat to Gox right now

Yeah, same here.  I'm not too concerned about being unable to withdraw fiat but when you start hearing stories of people being unable to withdraw BTC, that gives me the heebie jeebies!

400 on Stamp! Finally

+1

I agree entirely with all of this.  TA is ill-suited to bitcoin, at least for the time being.

Does anyone know why Bitstamp isn't currently showing at http://trading.i286.org ?

Only 1k mini wall at $450 (Gox) - to be eaten into within the next hour by the look of things

It would nice to pop 450 before the US wakes up in a few hours time.  A nice breakfast treat for them.

Jeez, if I wasn't already all-in I'd do a market buy of a few 100 coins just as a primer to get it through $450, then expect a further rise after that once everyone sees that the magic 450 has been breached

450 popped at last!

Yawn, let's end this?  It's getting dull

I saw the price starting to fall about 45 minutes ago and so decided to take myself off into the garage to avoid any rash decisions.  Thankfully, just got back inside to see the price is back up again, once again showing that HOLD is always the best policy    Don't panic kids!

Just checking in on a leisurely Saturday morning to find that I'm now in a gang of greedy twats who are just plain morons, apparently. All just because I hold onto my coins?  The last time I tried to trade I lost 1% of my coins, whereas by holding since May they've increased in value by 400%.  So forgive me for not buying and selling just to keep you happy.

Oh, and by the way - CHOO CHOO MF!!!

Bitcoinity still all over the place?  Very laggy and a bit strange today

Yup, the colours aren't the easiest to interpret.  Might be more helpful if the smaller exchanges were all grouped into "other" and greater distinction made between the colours of the major exchanges.

I don't think the Chinese (or the Europeans or anyone else for that matter) really care much about what the Senate does

Obviously.  But having fourteen colours in the key when the chart really only shows four major players. My geography teacher would have had a stroke.

Will it?  I beg to differ.  We'll see tomorrow I suppose.

An interesting thought struck me earlier - now that the majority of my personal wealth lies with bitcoin, what would be the best and most secure way of leaving them in a will?!?  If I were to get run over by a truck tomorrow, my coins would probably be lost.  None of my family or friends would have any idea what to do with paper wallets either  

If you're already on board, it's actually going east.  It only looks to be going west if you've been left behind!

So I go to sleep for a few hours and - wtf just happened???

If I wasn't able to look at a chart of the last few hours and see the rise to 618 and correction to 531 and then climb again, then all I would know is that I went to sleep when Gox was 520 and woke up to see 580 - which wouldn't have been surprising at all, just normality for the last week  

I think a lot of guys on this thread don't get laid much.  This could well be the first real live woman they've seen for a while

Five weeks ago I went to southern Africa and have had no internet since then.  I left just after the US congress hearings and have just now got internet access for the first time since then.  Looking at the past price charts    wtf?

At the risk of sounding lazy, I really don't want to have to go through hundreds of pages of this forum, so could someone give me a very brief summary of what happened?

Did the interest generated by the US hearings drive the price to $1200, or was there anything else in addition.  I've picked up the btce issue but is that the main issue which caused the price to then crash from $1200 to current levels?

Also, are cash withdrawals still impossible out of Gox?  What about bitcoin withdrawals?

Cheers guys, really appreciated.

Thanks for the summaries guys.  Now to decide whether to hold or sell.....

Sorry, I'm still catching up with news following a long period offline.  Regarding huobi, surely sooner or later the CEO's bank are going to freeze or limit his account, given Bank of China's stated position?

Did anyone see if that $800 mini wall on Gox was eaten or pulled in the last hour or so?  I got distracted watching War and Peace on TV 

Finally, some action!!  Gox <700 within the hour?

EDIT:  and maybe the hate posts might subside a bit too, now that we have something else to watch 

Not when only 350 coins moves the Gox price up by 2%.  Come on, let's have some volume again

It's pretty simple really.  Gox is primarily used by traders since it has a relatively good user-friendly platform. If you want to day-trade or hold short positions, it's easy to do on Gox.  Then if you want to cash out, you withdraw your btc to your wallet, send it to Stamp or suchlike and then withdraw fiat.  You wouldn't want to buy your first lot of btc from Gox (because of the c.10% inflated price), nor sell your final holding (because you can't withdraw fiat) but for everything in-between it's very useable.

Keep selling!! I'm enjoying getting more coins at this price  

Best not to try to catch a falling knife.  Usually ends badly.

Someone just panic-market-sold c.200 coins on Gox to bring the price down to $900.  Who does that with such low volume?

I think you're giving the guys on Wall Street far too much credibility.  Most of them have no idea what they're doing either.

So the FBI will sell them to anyone who approaches them with an offer?  Nonsense.

But price has now recovered to where it was pre-dump.  No panning selling, this shows good support imo.

Throughout 2014 I think we can expect to see new and far more professional exchanges opening which will be fully registered and statutorily compliant within their jurisdictions of operation.¹ Also, existing major currency exchanges will begin to offer bitcoin/fiat exchange.  This will be the catalyst for future growth in both bitcoin adoption and value.

Franky, bitcoin has massively outgrown the likes of Gox.  Such amateur inexperienced operators will of course fall by the wayside, whether or not they were once the most recognised and trusted.  Good riddance, I say.  Move over.

¹ not an invite for someone to start a rant on whether bitcoin exchanges should be regulated  

Off topic, a lot.  Perhaps start your own thread?

That c.600 coin ask wall at $699 on Stamp was eaten in about 5 mins by several >100 buys.  700 now broken.

Technical analysis is not at all how bitcoin works...

Is that an April fool's joke?

Chance to get in, more like.  These are very, very cheap coins indeed.  If only I had more fiat sitting at the exchange, I'd be grabbing as many as possible.  The Chinese banks debacle is already factored into this price.  Anyone selling now is selling on news rather than on rumour - trying to catch a falling knife, which is always a mistake.  This is a great time to buy, imo.

Trading is gambling.  You can make a living doing either.  Or you can lose everything doing either.  Once again, as has been shown today, I feel compelled to re-state that TA does not work with bitcoin.  Anyone who thinks it does has either simply got lucky a few times and so concludes that their TA is accurate, or they simply use it as a psychological support tool.

In commodity markets, yes.  In BTC, no.  I repeat, no.

 

Buy BTC now, don't take any advice from this forum, don't bother trying to draw lines on charts, don't day trade, don't react if the price swings rapidly in either direction, return in a couple of years from now to find yourself very well off.

It's no secret that I don't think TA applies to bitcoin (yet) but +1 anyway 

Defrosted by hot air?

Does this mean you're a prepper???  And why would preppers want bitcoins anyway? 

Absolutely.  It's hardly decentralised and is ripe for manipulation at any point by large holders.

So someone thinks that someone else is dumb and is trying to convince others that that person is dumber.  And one of those accused of being dumb is offering but not really accepting bets that he is not dumb.

What's the average age around here?

Good question.  And at what price have those coins been sold?

Not really, very low volume generally

Probably just a load of orders triggered at 500.  Still feels like a pump and dump to me. Again.

(EDIT: I mean 450)

Awesome!!!  (even if I am a long term hodler)

I very much doubt that PBOC are doing pseudo TA on bitcoin "trend lines"  

Because it's already oversold

Bitstamp hoping to reopen within 24 hours?

"Slovenian bitcoin exchange Bitstamp remains closed – hackers supposedly stole around 19000 bitcoins from its servers (4,3 million eur). “Bistamp remains liquid, but I can’t tell more because of the investigation” said co-founder Damijan Merlak and added they closed the exchange because otherwise “important trails could be erased”. “With experts we are currently setting up a duplicate of entire infrastructure in San Francisco, which is bound to finish in the next 24 hours. At that time we will continue our services.” explained Merlak for STA. At the exchange they claim to have “more than enough reserves” to cover lost bitcoins. Hackers supposedly stole only “small part” of all bitcoins – because of cases as this one, exhanges keep majority of their bitcoins in offline computers."

The above is apparently translated by a Reddit user, the source being this site:
http://www.rtvslo.si/gospodarstvo/bitstampu-hekerji-ukradli-za-stiri-milijone-evrov-bitcoinov-borza-zacasno-zaprta/355142

EDIT: probably not reopening within 24 hours, but duplication of infrastructure within that time

or someone is slowly getting in 

At least they're providing updates, which is more than Gox ever did

It's incredibly simple to set up a limited liability company in UK.  However, when registering with Companies House (the government entity that you have to go through to set up a limited liability company), the company is required to provide a business address as its 'official' registered business address. Rather than setting up its own physical office, many small businesses or new startups will use the services of an intermediary to act as the registered business address.  It means the new company doesn't need to have a physical presence in the UK.

Bitstamp's details can be found by going to: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo  and from there searching by company name (Bitstamp Ltd) or company number (08157033).

There are loads of companies offering this intermediary service. An example is: https://www.rapidformations.co.uk/additional-services/registered-office-address/  They allow companies who operate from their living room to have a prestigious London address, for example.  Alternatively, a company's lawyers or accountants often provide this service too (i.e. use their address is the registered office address).

Name & Registered Office:
BITSTAMP LIMITED
5 NEW STREET SQUARE
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
EC4A 3TW
Company No. 08157033

You need to get out more and find yourself a girlfriend

When Bitstamp reopens, I'm not convinced that anyone will be eager to immediately exchange BTC for fiat on an exchange which will yet to have proven whether users can quickly withdraw fiat from their Bitstamp accounts.  I think it's far more likely that those with BTC on the exchange will withdraw them to their own wallets; those with fiat on the exchange will immediately buy BTC and then withdraw them to their wallets - since it's the quickest and easiest way to withdraw.  I may be wrong, but that seems the most likely scenario which, if true, would lead to an immediate demand for BTC and a price-rising rally. Who knows how strong the rally would be though...

Ironically, this would mean that the less faith people have in Bitstamp once it reopens, the greater the price increase.

It wouldn't be surprising, and it may even be prudent (for them), in an attempt to prevent a run on coins

If Bitstamp still intends to reopen for business today, as stated by Reuters, they only have five hours left (Slovenian time).  Could make for an interesting Friday evening.

You've probably come to the worst possible place to learn anything about trading.

I have to agree with you.  "Oh poor little me, I don't even know what a bull trap is, please explain. And what is CCMF?"  Yeah, of course you're just getting into bitcoin and you just read the white paper. Not fooling anyone.

I think last night's pump was simply caused by some people buying based on the Coinbase news, expecting it to cause a bull run, without realising that everyone else already knew about it ages ago, so the price was already factored in. Now the price is simply correcting itself back to yesterday's price c.250.

No, still there: http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitstamp/USD

So you're inviting people to combine bitcoin TA with belief in the illuminati and control by freemasons?  No wonder people aren't taking bitcoin seriously yet.

You are deluded 

No need to 'suspect' that this is happening.  It IS happening. It's a common trading practice in the regular stockmarket to give false impressions of support or resistance.

That 700 BTC market sell just now on Stamp had zero effect on price. Looks like resilience, should only go up from here.

You're getting your news firstly from Fox News and now from the Daily Mail?! - possibly the worst sources of pseudo-news in USA and UK respectively.

Not really, just a blip, it's climbing again now.

Hm, LTC recovering again.  Looks suspiciously like a bit of whale profit taking?

1.25k BTC buy on Stamp just now.  Someone's eager to get on board

Any Greek deal is just a postponement. Greece is bankrupt.

Seems to be ok for me

If you're not day trading, then keep your coins in your wallet.

Just exactly what I was thinking 

But whether this rise is due to the halvening being already priced in?

German government 10-year bond yields have just gone negative for the first time, joining Switzerland and Japan in the same boat.  Germans are basically so worried about future losses that they're willing to pay their government to look after their fiat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36526008

good timing!

Been quietly waiting for this for > 2 years

I was hoping for an early night especially getting woken up with alerts for the past few nights. But tonight's chart watching is just too good.  I'd thought prospects of an ATH before autumn were poor, but now we may even see that before the end of this month. Far too excited  

Finex has only 6k of coins left

The drop from 755 to 730 a couple of hours ago has had zero impact as we climb again. Haven't seen such strong support for, literally, years. This is 2013 all over again, with added rockets

OK guys, you've proven Godwin's Law.

10k ask wall keeps appearing at $745 on Finex, then reducing to 5k, then back up to 10k. I hope you get caught out and see your wall get munched, either in one bite or many nibbles

And now the wall has been pulled altogether

It's just the campaigning that's been temporarily suspended out of respect for the Member of Parliament who was killed today. The referendum itself has not been suspended.

Just wondering, how does our current rate of increase compare with that which we saw prior to the last ATH in 2013?  Say, average $/day increase in the month preceding ATH?

(EDIT: I didn't phrase that very well. Just wondering what the average daily rise was in the month preceding $1175]

Wow, just woke up to this    Looks like their ammo is spent though and we're now correcting back up. Glad I slept through that.

Exactly my thoughts. Today is going to be very interesting, expecially if we quickly get back to >$750

We'll find out soon enough, once they start posting FUD here to try to drive the price back down.

$750 popped again and ¥5000 - up we go....

These last few dumps have had such little impact on upwards momentum. Just delaying the inevitable rise.

Brexit is looking less and less likely over the past 24 hours, as reflected in the surge in both the strength of the £GBP and the rise in the FTSE 100 throughout trading today.  Whether this is influencing bitcoin is debatable.

And gradual and led by China

Yes - and 30 day charts still make great viewing. Only a matter of time before $800 is breached.

A good chance to accumulate before the next step up

I keep seeing little bits of bold text appearing and appearing without justification

Something strange happening there, I think. The depth chart has been all over the place too.

Bitfinex twitter: "We are experiencing platform issues. We are investigating and will resume normal operations as soon as possible."

Bitfinex update: "Update - We will allow users to cancel open orders during a 10 minute period before we will restart the trading engine. Our best estimate is this will be about one hour from now. We will announce when this period will start as soon as we have a precise ETA. "

https://bitfinex.statuspage.io

Is Huobi down as well???

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/huobi/CNY just not picking it up for some reason....

Finex: "At 00:00 UTC we will restart trading. Between now and 00:00 UTC users can cancel any active orders they may have."

They changed their mind, 15 mins longer:  "Updated trading restart time. We restart trading at 00:15 UTC. From now to 00:15 UTC users can cancel active orders. New orders will be accepted after 00:15 UTC"

How long before we can have a decent exchange?

How can we hope for mass adoption when we can't even depend on having reliable exchanges. My faith in BTC is rapidly waning.

I guess there's a silver lining to every cloud: time to buy some cheap coins

I think anyone who lived through the great Goxxing of 2014 will never keep coins on an exchange again.

Well spotted. It was playing up yesterday too. It seems buggy. Bitcoinwisdom is much better.

It doesn't look like it, yet

Finex is back up https://twitter.com/bitfinex/status/745251979417554944

A correction which was due, but triggered early by Finex panic, perhaps. Either way, up from here.

I tend to agree. Once the Brexit referendum result becomes clear (estimated to be between 02.00 and 06.00 UTC on Friday), the market will have some certainty, regardless of the result. I suspect this will lead to falling prices for gold and BTC as relative safe-havens.  Of course, the market will likely move before that, on rumour.  As such, it wouldn't be surprising to see BTC drop substantially anytime between now and Friday, followed by a steady rise back towards ATH - which was its trajectory before Brexit jitters and Bitfinex going offline.

Wow, this is impressive.

4000 CNY about to be tested

No chance

Absolutely, except that there would need to be a much larger drop for it to be considered to be a handle

Is it wrong that the potential for market chaos makes me consider voting Leave in tomorrow's Brexit referendum???
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-g-idUKKCN0Z82XR

Irony, my friend.

I'm just not sure whether $780 is sufficient to say that the right side of the cup has completed its formation yet?

There are no exit polls being carried out

£GBP is free-falling 

7.4 million votes counted so far, and it's split 50.0% / 50.0%

Hmmm, same here.  "May you live in interesting times" was originally a Chinese curse, rather than a blessing. Our times look like becoming particularly interesting.

Leave 52% (12.1 million) Remain 48% (11.5 million).  Not finished counting yet though.

And they're discussing whether UK Govt will intervene to stabilise the £.  Thankfully most of my stash is in BTC

There's been a growing feeling amongst the English that the UK (mainly England) might be better off without the Scots, especially since their referendum in 2014 which showed that 45% of Scots are not committed to the UK.

There may well be other referenda throughout Europe in the coming months which further fracture the EU. If the Scots were to have another referendum and were to vote to leave the UK, by then will there even be an EU worth joining?

$650 now. Perhaps someone was listening.

Oh yeah, Jaroslaw. I miss him, kind of.  Definitely don't miss Shroomskit though, I suspect he either had a nervous breakdown or ranted himself to an early grave.

The recent rise in price over the last few months may well have been due to the approaching halving (who knows?).  If so, it was probably already factored into the price. The chances of halving having a positive impact on the price of BTC at the moment that halving happens, or immediately afterwards, is wishful nonsense (of course, long term impact is different).

Imagine that a company announces on 1st January that it is due to sign an incredibly lucrative contract on 9th July.  The company's share value will not wait until 9th July to suddenly spike.  It will begin to climb from the announcement onwards and will be factored into the share price well before that date. It may well peak a month before the contract is signed.  It may then even experience a sell off if investors believe that the share price has become over-inflated. If the contract proves to be as lucrative as hoped over the next few months/years, then the price will likely continue on a steady rise.

Pumps and dumps aside, of course, I suspect the same of BTC: a price rise prior to halving, followed by a steady rise as people see the benefits of BTC.

Yes, that's my take on it. But this is Bitcoin and anything could happen.

The price is definitely going up from here. 100%. Guaranteed. I promise you.  You should re-mortgage your house and spend all of the proceeds on buying BTC immediately.  It's really quite obvious. The price will *never* be this low again. Cheap coins, etc etc.

Bitcoinland is so, so quiet.....

Check past volumes. They are particularly low recently.

Transcript of part of BBC Business Asia report to be broadcast today from Shanghai:

"The biggest bank in the world is Chinese: ICBC has just over US$3.5 triliion in assets. It has around 0.5 billion customers. 4 out of the 5 biggest banks in the world are Chinese. This is an industry with huge reserves and global ambitions.

But, China has a debt problem, a big debt problem. In the years following the global financial crisis there have been interest rate cuts and there has been a boom in credit, all aimed at boosting the economy. And all on the orders of the government which own or controls most of the banks.

The IMF estimates there are US$1.3 trillion in corporate loans in China, that are at risk of default. Most of that money has been channelled into state-owned enterprises  - they’re mostly unprofitable – or into local government.

And bad loans are on the up – they are at an 11 year high.

So, what next? Maybe some of the banks will topple over. The government will bale them out at great cost and maybe their currency will devalue further. Or, do the banks manage to restructure their debt and survive, while a select few go to the wall?

Through all of this the government will remain focussed on its number one priority – maintaining harmony and maintaining stability, even if that means saving a few banks that shouldn’t be saved."

Nothing we don't know already but I thought this succintly describes the situation with Chinese banks. It's just a matter of time until a Chinese bank goes under and we all feel the shockwaves. Interesting times ahead. I'm not convinced that BTC is seen by anyone as a safe haven, other than die-hard tech nerds, so who knows what effect on BTC price will be. Probably stay at 666   Maybe time to buy some gold since that's what the market likes to do...

I'm getting that late-2013 feeling again. ATH on its way at the end of November again?

I go offline for a fews days, only to come back to find that "China has banned bitcoin" again  How many times now?

I wish more people here would realise this. When has btc ever shown any signs of acting as if it were a safe haven? Outside of these forums, basement dwellers and tech nerds, hardly anyone even knows what btc is. They might have heard of it once or twice. Wall Street is hardly likely to suddenly flock to crypto.

The US election result will probably have about as much impact on btc price as the much awaited halvening a few months ago - nil.

Yeah, I agree with you. Sorry, I should have said that the election won't have an immediate impact, as many here seem to think, in the same way that so many people were shouting that they expected an immediate impact due to halvening, which similarly failed to materialise overnight.

Huobi volume is fake, it has been for years.

3000 btc wall at $839 on finex.....just waiting to be pulled.

EDIT: and gone, then back again, then gone, lol

Number 1 top trending story on Reuters at the moment (UK edition):

"Bitcoin's total value hits record high above $14 billion"
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-global-markets-bitcoin-idUKKBN14B1HD

BBC has noticed btc's recent rise:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38415066

Feels like she's revving up for another climb - this is so 2013 

I haven't kept up with developments for a while - which Chinese exchange is now considered to have most (non-fake) volume? I'm assuming finex is light on depth and volume these days, especially post-hack?

Thanks for that. I guess we look to finex for now then. I suppose we can take comfort from the thin bids there, since it shows that few holders want to sell at the moment - everyone expects a further bull run.

I'm not buying, mine are all in cold storage. Just trying to figure out which exchange most accurately reflects volume and depth.

I only just got online. That 1.25k buy about 45 mins ago on Finex - did anyone notice whether or not it was a single market buy?

Some of you will remember the old ATH of $266 which hung around for a while, until the bull run which eventually broke through it and took us to the current ATH of $1175.  That was a rise in the ATH of 442%.

If the current ATH were to break through this time, and rise by the same percentage, that would lead to a new ATH of $5194.

Unscientific optimism....

Unless, of course, we never see $800 again 

This just feels so much like 2013.  Back then, "there had been an ATH of $266 which had hung around for a while, until the bull run which eventually broke through it and took us to the current ATH of $1175.  That was a rise in the ATH of 442%. If the current ATH were to break through this time, and rise by the same percentage, that would lead to a new ATH of $5194" [pasted from my post a few days ago].

On the other hand (even though I don't really think TA works too well with btc), we could be seeing a classic cup and handle pattern forming between Nov.2013 and now: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cupandhandle.asp  In which case, we could expect to see the price go up to c.$1175, then drop to between 30% and 50% of that ($587 to $820 ) as traders begin to doubt whether the ATH will be broken. Then a bounce back to beyond $1175.

In other words, I think it'll reach $1175, then it could go up or down  

Gox ATH was $1,242 if I remember correctly. I plucked $1175 from current Finex charts. I think the latter is the psychological ATH since many may not have been around in 2013 and will look to Finex or Stamp. Or maybe ATH on Chinese exchanges is the more important one these days?

Times must be good - I haven't seen these gifs on Bitcoinity since 2013

Come on Finex, let's pop $1150 - third time lucky

A handle tends to be a drop of between 30% and 50% from the top of the cup rim (i.e. between $587 and $820)

Yeah, I don't think we can see yesterday's drop as the start of a handle, since it was caused by anomalous Chinese yuan news. And btc always does what we least expect, so unless there is any more unexpected 'news' then it could easily rebound from here and re-test the ATH.

These make an interesting read about the ETF:

http://www.etf.com/sections/features-and-news/bitcoin-etfs-dummies
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-investors-bet-the-sec-will-approve-cryptocurrency-etf-a-view-at-odds-with-analysts-2017-02-13

They give reasonable reasons why they feel that the SEC are unlikely to approve the ETF.  Which would be unfortunate...

I think unregulated exchanges will be a major concern for SEC.

What are the chances of another "China bans bitcoin for the 97th time" story sometime between now and $1242....

Indeed. I'm considering shorting before the allegedly 'catastrophic' ETF news causes the inevitable selling, just so I can accumulate more coins prior to the impending shot at the moon!

At the start of 2013 the ATH was $266. So it then basically shot past the ATH by about x4.5. The equivalent rise past the current ATH would take us to around $5000. Which would be nice, but we can hope for more.

Yes, you're right. I should have said mid-2013. Hard to believe that was nearly four years ago!

Whatever the reasons (i.e. MtGox fiasco), $1216.73 is the highest number of USD ever paid* for one bitcoin. Let's just break that during this bull run, and then we can establish a new undisputed ATH.

* [EDIT: on an exchange]

It's only <500 btc and reducing all the time

Indeed. If he's sending them back to exchanges then perhaps we can await his arrest pretty soon. And which exchange would knowingly accept tarnished coins and put themselves at risk of further NSA investigation? Whatever he does, a dump at exchanges is his least likely action.

So, more train and rocket gifs please.

Yes, confirmed FUD. Can't verify his identity, but this is the latest response to that Reddit thread:

"I am Chris Ellis and I work at Bitfinex. No coins have moved from any of the Bitfinex attacker's addresses since 27th January 2017 when we saw 196 Transactions spend ~876BTC out from the smallest receiving balances back in August.
For a full list of the 2,072 transactions involved in the hack and the 196 transaction in January see my public Github Bitfinex_Hacked_Coins.csv
The OP has a 1 month old account and is posting while Bitcoin is approaching its all time high which is sure to get clicks and comments. If you want accuracy though it's simple enough to download my csv files and put the addresses from the August hack in to a "watch only" Electrum wallet, then just wait and see when the coins really do move.
So far though only ~$794,000 USD worth of bitcoin have been withdrawn."

This feels like 2013 all over again. But without all the Gox bullshit and Chinese fake volumes. In fact, this feels SO much better than 2013  

Yeah, China banned it again

Yeah, I still really want to see the Gox ATH surpassed, just so we never have to mention it ever again.

Well that was all a bit unnecessary

Yup, some profit takers are now sitting with a big dose of FOMO. Rockets please.

I also wish we would pass the Gox ATH, if only so that this question doesn't keep on getting asked here every few pages.

Or the SEC are giving them every chance they can to make amendments so that it can be approved. It can be looked at either way.

And let it never again be mentioned

Looking at depth charts on the exchanges shows just how few coins there are for sale. Once mainstream media start reporting on the ATH, parity with gold, etc. then the potential upward price movement could be staggering. Such media reports tend to be about three days behind events here in bitcoinland from my experience.

If you think those sells a couple of hours ago were 'dumps' by 'big fishes' then you're clearly new around here.

Bitcoinland is heavily populated by tech nerds, who tend to be male. It's nice to have some of the finer half of the species around here.

Exactly. A lot of sheeple gambling that either a positive ETF decision would lead to an instant massive price rise, or a negative ETF decision would lead to an instant massive price drop.

The reality is that bitcoin is the same now as it was this morning. Nothing has fundamentally changed. Except that all of the massive over-hyping in both directions can now be put aside, and the price can carry on with its steady rise unimpeded by the distraction of the ETF decision, as it has done for the past two years. Onwards and upwards....

Well yes, but that's a different point and unrelated to the ETF decision.

I know that the Bitcoin Gold fork is due to happen on October 25 but can anyone provide a date for the Segwitx2 fork? Thanks

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how do you trade BTG on yobit before they're released?

Yes

Nice story Jimbo.  I see that we joined this forum within four days of each other back in 2013! I'm more of a lurker than a poster but I've enjoyed your contributions here and enjoyed riding this train with you. I almost lost faith during the long bear run in 2014/15 but thankfully kept my coins.

Congrats to you and all of us hodlers  

Nearly 2.00a.m. here but glad I stayed up to watch the show.  This is truly incredible, especially when we remember how we all felt in 2015 when this place was full of bears.  Congratulations to all.  $10,000 for one bitcoin. WOW!

Fear not, the little dude survived (see 1:40): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxGuNJ-nEYg&feature=youtu.be

"A little dazed perhaps but all in one piece". It bounced back and survived, but some of it's relatives died - the comparisons with BTC are uncanny!

I think that little dump broke the internet for a while

Ha! Seeing proudhon making a reappearance here is as bullish as it gets!

Meanwhile, in India, BTC is trading at $12,378 on Unocoin (INR 799,120)

For UK, have you seen this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies

My hope is that I can get away with defining my trades as gambling, which means zero tax.  I'm about to take professional advice though, in a couple of weeks from now. I can keep you informed if you like?

That's my thinking too.  There's no way I could provide details of every transaction I've made over the last 4 years, especially bct to alts to btc, etc.  And also considering that there's now no way for me to access any records from Mt.Gox.  So presumably the tax authorities (HMRC in UK) would reasonably accept the "$out minus $in" figure. That's my hope anyway.  But still, paying Capital Gains Tax on crypto profits would grate, a lot.

Just wondering if anyone here has yet made a CGT return to HMRC and how it was dealt with? They're massively under-staffed (up to 45 minute waiting time when phoning them, if you manage to get through at all).  My guess is that they would accept pretty much whatever method you decide to use (i.e. a "$out minus $in" figure) as long as it seems justifiable, and they would only rarely investigate further to see if your figures are accurate, in the way that usually just accept at face value most people's regular self-assessed tax returns. I doubt they have the resources to do anything further.

Has anyone here actually dealt with HMRC yet regarding btc profits? It would be interesting to hear about your experiences.

That's really common - at least two of my friends have said to me "oh, I can't afford to buy btc now because it's over $10,000"

I was just looking at some old posts on here back in 2013, when we all dreamed of $1,000.  Anyone talking about $10,000 was seen as a nut-job, in much the same way as anyone now talking of $100,000.  Crazy indeed.  

I'm guessing a few folk here use GDAX - I haven't used it before but thinking about it.  Are there any issues I should know about? Specifically, I'm wondering about any issues withdrawing BTC, withdrawing $USD, and whether they do SEPA transfers?  I haven't used an exchange based in USA before (I'm in UK) and would prefer the opinions of this community before going ahead. Thanks y'all.

Yeah, I've been using Stamp for a long time, but BTC/$ exchange rate always seems to be higher on GDAX, so I'm just trying to see if I can make the most of that.  Thanks.

This is indeed crazy. I've started looking for a tax-laywer/accountant for the first time in my life. I think they're going to be busy these next few months with approaches from bitcoin m/billionaires.

If "breaking" means the same as old

Absolutely.  All the people I spoke to about btc in 2013 are now getting in touch to ask how to buy. THIS IS GENTLEMEN.  Hold onto your hats.

Several hours ago. It's even on coindesk who are usually days late.

Oh no, my bitcoin is only worth what it was two days ago, etc etc.

Are we about to go inter-galactic?  

Yup, that's how futures work. Weird but true.

Kind of, except it really wasn't that easy having to hold all the way through the great bear run of 2015/6. I see this as our reward for having to go through that.

I love these little dips trying to shake out the weak hands.  They're having less and less effect each time.  Manipulators, take note: everyone's holding. Nobody wants to sell. Understand?

The only way is up 

I read recently on here (at least I think it was on here) about the electricity consumption of mining and using bitcoin, compared to the electricity requirements of the world current fiat systems.  Does anyone have a link or two which shows that BTC's electricity consumption is less than fiat's?

Thanks

Gotta love proudhon, that just made my day. Surely means we're going up again?

Probably because nobody can get their funds out of Bitstamp: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/new/

Is Bitstamp about to do a Gox?

Gotta love it when panic sellers panic sell. Learn to HODL, it's all you need to do.  Even Wall Street can't handle our HODL mentality, it's too strong for them.

Anyone who uses ZeroHedge as their news source deserves to have sold at the bottom

Ha, no that's not what I meant! Just saying that anyone who read that ZH article and sold their BTC as a result, probably deserves their losses. It's staggering how often BTC enthusiasts quote ZH as 'fact' (probably before their first shave).

So I went offline for a couple of days and just returned - wtf happened yesterday? It even made the BBC news that btc had lost one third of its value.  Any exciting news or just a shake out of weak hands?

Merry Christmas to all the hodlers out there.  We once said our time will come, well this year it did. Some of you are dicks, some of you are awesome - you know who you are.  Have a great time out there y'all.

Agreed. Sooooo bored of block size debates. zzzzzzzzz

Market cap has always been a useless indicator, not just in crypto but in more traditional markets too. Of course all of the coins/shares/commodity cannot be sold at the current price. I really wish there wasn't so much focus on market cap, it's such a meaningless figure.

"Don't cry, maybe your Ripple will be worth something." 

"a propellor overheat correction" - that's a new one 

WTF has this this got to do with bitcoin?  Consider yourself permanently ignored, dickhead.

Yup, TransferWise also now refuse to make deposits to, or accept withdrawals from, crypto exchanges.  It's becoming increasingly difficult to get fiat into or out of crypto.

This correction correlates perfectly with my getting ill with flu.  The moment symptoms started to show, crypto started to collapse. As soon as I started to recover, it bounced back.

Since my personal health seems to be as accurate an indicator as anything else, and since I'm feeling pretty spritely again now, I can confirm that we're off to the moon again.  Now that I'm aware of this correlation, I'll be sure to inform the forum if I ever feeling slightly sniffy ever again.  Short the flu!

Welcome back.  Yeah you missed a bit of fun! Hodlers hodled well though.

Says the guy who's just wasted his life reading the last 22 pages....

I retired before I was 40 thanks to crypto.  Fear not, you won't regret it. Best. Decision. Ever.

I went back to school to study based on personal interests instead of studying something solely in order to get a job at the end.  And I'm learning music, writing, travelling and generally keeping myself busy, instead of being kept busy by an employer.

Yeah, I agree that's what I thought it might have been too - an opportunity to recharge.  However, having now been retired for several years, I can confirm that I'll definitely not be returning to work.  I considered starting a business (again) but could find little attractive about that option.  Folk often say that they'd have to carry on working if they won the lotto, just to give themselves something to do.  To me, that seems to be the sign of a small mind - there are so many interesting things to do out there, places to visit, things to learn, people to meet, discussions to be had - all of which are so much more enjoyable when they don't have to be done in order to earn a wage.

For so many, the need to work gets in the way of being able to do or try all of those things. Work uses up so much of our time that it gets in the way of life.

Thankfully I'm in very good health and enjoy an outdoor lifestyle, which I can now pursue without having to squeeze in x hours per day at a place I don't want to be and, often, with people I don't want to be with.  Sure, early retirement isn't for everyone, I guess it depends on your personality type.

I'm also enjoying being able to help out friends and family financially and watch them pursue their own goals, which wouldn't have been possible for them without a helping hand. That makes me really happy.

I thought HODL was just a typo error meaning HOLD from this forum a few years ago.  Not sure where he got Hold On For Dear Life from?

I think you stumbled into the wrong forum....

So stop quoting the trolls so we don't all have to read their posts over and over

So you can listen to him talking about his asshole? Weirdest reason to commit to reading this thread.

I've kind of lost track of which forks and which airdrops have happened.  Does anyone know of a definitive list of such?  I've only ever claimed B-Cash to-date (and sold it) but I suppose I ought to get onto it with the others.  Thanks

Brilliant. And so accurate!

Oh no, is bitcoin dead again? Etc....

12888 game, May 21st 2018

12288 game: May 21st was taken, so I'll go for May 22nd 2018 instead

Surely there are other forums where you can shout at each other about Russia?

I thought it would be obvious, but I can repeat it for you: Surely there are other forums where you can shout at each other about Russia?

If that's how your mind works, you're already in hell.

Slight exaggeration. If true, the 51.9% of UK population who voted for Brexit primarily due to immigration concerns would be in jail.  You can complain about migrants, it's racism which is illegal and rightly so.

In other news....it's a sea of green in cryptoland 

Oh, must be true then. I've just posted an anti-immigration tweet here in UK.  I'll let you know if I go to jail.

Agreed, so much shit being spewed on here.  I'm guessing mostly teenagers who live in a basement and think they have a handle on geopolitics. At least the trolls of the past used to be entertaining. I'm out of here for a few months.  Have fun arguing with each other about Russia and anything other than the BTC price.  Adios.

Coindeal becomes shirt sponsor for Premier League football team Wolves: https://www.wolves.co.uk/news/club/20180704-wolves-unveil-coindeal-as-shirt-sleeve-sponsor/

I have to admit to not having heard of Coindeal before - a crypto exchange launched in March 2018 apparently - but I just saw that they're going to be sponsoring football Premier League team Wolves next season.

They seem to have listed some pretty obscure coins, but thought this was interesting, especially since "the deal is the first ever sports sponsorship deal involving a cryptocurrency exchange platform."

Disclaimer: I know nothing about Coindeal, but I am a Wolves fan!

"The price of bitcoin surged Monday after a report said that BlackRock has set up a working group to explore ways of taking advantage of the cryptocurrency market.....The world’s most valuable virtual currency by market value jumped more than 4 percent."

Someone needs to tell CNBC that 4% is not a surge in bitcoinland, but a common daily fluctuation.

I sat through a monetary policy and future-of-finance lecture a couple of months ago which touched on crypto.  The lecturer mostly knew his stuff on crypto but not in as much details as many of us here.

He spoke for a couple of minutes on why CBOE futures market meant that btc could never become a true currency since the market is always incentivised to go short, because market players don't have to hold actual btc to participate (I'm paraphrasing, probably quite badly - I wasn't taking notes).  I did quiz the guy on various parts of his presentation before time ran out and I was unable to question him on this particular issue.

Putting aside my poor memory of exactly what he said, does anyone have insight into what his reasoning may have been around this?

In the meantime, I'll try to find whether the lecture was recorded.....

Exactly, more than likely just market buys and sells, probably on behalf of clients.

There's doesn't need to be "mass panic". That's not a necessary requirement to determine whether the bottom has happened.

Even on ignore his posts are taking up half of my screen space.

There's not much point in putting the trolls on our ignore lists if you keep quoting them.

Nice Monero ticker in the background.

Jeez, I remember Notlambchop.  That guy had issues.  Also ShroomsKit from around the same time, if not before.  The trolling back then was way more entertaining and didn't seem as racist or xenophobic.  Or maybe I just got less tolerant with age.

Apart from the inverse Bart Simpson, this is the best TA I've seen on here.

Woah, what's with all the hats?  I haven't been back here since summer and now everyone has a hat! What happened??? 

Nice.  Thanks!

We're old school HODLers here.  These drops have no effect on us anymore.  We were here when one btc could be exchanged for <100 federally backed tokens.  We'll still be here when one btc  doesn't need to be exchanged for federally backed tokens at all.  We'll just use them to buy things when all other currencies are worthless.  And if we want to do so secretly we'll atomically swap them for Monero first. Nothing to see here.  Carry on.

[Large corporate boardroom filled with suited executives]

Exec #1 (Graham Chapman): Item six on the agenda: “The Meaning of Life.” Now uh, Harry, you’ve had some thoughts on this.

Exec #2 (Michael Palin): Yeah, I’ve had a team working on this over the past few weeks, and what we’ve come up with can be reduced to two fundamental concepts. One: People aren’t wearing enough hats. Two: Matter is energy. In the universe there are many energy fields which we cannot normally perceive. Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person’s soul. However, this “soul” does not exist ab initio as orthodox Christianity teaches; it has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved owing to man’s unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.

Exec #3 (Terry Jones): What was that about hats again?

Wish the Bart Simpsons would come back. They made for such nice trading opportunities...

Ah, Ironbridge.  Nice.

Totally agree.  However, that's been the case for years and similar posts have been on this very thread since I started reading it in 2014. Unfortunately, the whole 'HODL until I'm rich' mentality has undermined the very purpose of BTC.

Oh, and can we finally put to bed the whole idea of BTC as a safe haven - whilst global stock markets face their worst day since the 2008 financial crisis, BTC tanks even more.  If BTC really was a safe haven, it would be mooning now. Gold still seems to be the haven of choice.

Sure, I agree BTC is a safe haven, I should have said it's not seen as a safe haven by most people.

Um, that's exactly how markets work  

Apparent only to you it seems

And always has been

Well the charts haven't been this exciting since, well, forever.  Just imagine how it's going to feel when it moves like this in the opposite direction. Gotta love the corn.

I actually went to the supermarket yesterday to buy TP (simply because I needed some, not to hoard it) but I didn’t want to look like a hoarder, so I got some milk, yoghurt and some fruit too. But when I got to the toilet paper aisle they’d sold out. So now I have yogurt and milk that I didn’t really need in the first place. And still on my last roll of TP 🤷‍♂

After the worldwide market sell offs over the last couple of days, and more to come today in all likelihood, there's going to be a lot of cash out there looking for a home.  Not all of it is going into gold. Got to hope that some of it finds it's way into btc.