Capital gain taxes are horrible, and I'm sorry for anyone being extorted that way.

 Bigger market cap should smooth out the effect on price of influx and outflux of capital, reducing volatility

Of course, everybody knows that leverage is key for stability  

who else would capitulate is my question

no moderators around to split this thread?

maybe he bought it from someone who couldn't get his out? maybe *gasp*... it was a bribe?!?

I "liek" your style, but how did he get his money into gox so fast?

the price of Bitcoin is where it is in large part because people judge it to have a strong chance of being much more useful in the future. It seems like an amateur error by Falvinge to imagine that the BTC price should exactly match Bitcoin's present utility, rather than its present + potential future utility.

And we are witnessing just how those details emerge throughout the fledgling Bitcoin ecosystem.

For one thing, it's teaching righties about the efficacy of syndicalist systems.

it would appear Stamps has made similar changes.

https://www.bitstamp.net/article/bitstamp-new-verification-requirements/

as of the 30th you'll need to be registered to withdraw bitcoin or cash.

there would be exponential growth until bitcoin economy is about 10% of fiat economy and there it would have to slow down

Whoa where did gox get 55K volume? I thought it was dying. Do bots just like collectively losing fees?

wires into Gox take around 2 weeks at the moment.

I still can't see why anyone would even consider wiring fiat to Gox right now

To go after someone on a Japanese court, is less of a formidable task than doing the same thing on a Slovenian court.

Is it customary that all non-US customers also lose all their funds? I am not knowledgeable of the topic.

Have you checked your spam folder? Gmail for example has excellent spam filtering.

info@mtgox.com and accounting@mtgox.co also...


EDIT: oh and "news@bitcoinbreaknews.com" ... "mtgox return to customers the bitcoins!" I mean, come on

If the ratio of moneyflows to market price does not change, the cycles will continue unabated.  Their remarkable regularity is likely to result in attempts to front-run the cycle, and hence accelerate it.  That may also tend to blunt the extremes a bit, smoothing them over a diversity of participants.  Persistently retaining value will be likely to incentivize greater moneyflows, however, now that the financial world has actually caught wind of crypto.

a paradigm shift occurred around 1970 when productivity, employment rates, and wages decoupled.

But there is obviously a problem, this is that the income that a robot generates does not go to the poor guy it replaced, it goes all to his boss.

Bitstamp is pushing up and up, but Bitfinex doesn't want to follow. Strange.

Brilliant point.  Very reality based.

Perfect equality of opportunity can never exist, but it is very much in everyone's interest to seek to achieve a condition in which most gross inequities are removed, where possible, because this means fewer people want to cut your throat badly enough to actually do something about it.

try sending 1 million dollars across the globe

We need a really big whale or a whole a pod of medium whales. We can't bootstrap a turnaround taking each other's money. Even a Cyprus event would need a catalyst.

It's an axiom that unless something changes, the situation won't change. If $400 support isn't tested on higher volume, there will likely be no trend reversal for months. We'll go sideways. If $400 doesn't hold, we'll plummet until hidden support is found somewhere in the depths. This is gut check time.

there is no contradiction between investing to see BTC succeed *and* see a decent ROI.

You can't imagine an environment where intelligence has a survival and replication advantage greater than another environment? Did you even go to high school?

Or maybe this one, but this would mean we aren't even rallying right now.

The rate of growth may eventually slow to population growth levels

You should use logarithmic scale.

Show me one crypto coin that is socialist?

what the hell are bits worth anyways? 1 000 satoshi or something? can someone give me a conversion confirmation here? my google-fu is not so great when I'm dring.

ATH increase in relation to the previous one will get lower and lower (and the growth spurts will be closer and closer together). It's a dampening effect

slow and steady, just stay under the radar for as long as possible.

What are the bars? It doesn't seem like 1d or 3d are correct are they?

Did I mention I'm lazy?

It is more subtle than that.  Any computable function, and many non-computable functions, can be made into a strategy.  That's a very large space.  What you consider a successful strategy is itself a subtle and complex question.  Bounding the amount of overfit is something of an art, for example.

What is easy is deciding whether a given estimator outperforms the current price as an estimate of the future price at some particular time.  Somewhat more useful is deciding under which conditions of the environment it is an outperforming predictor, and how large is the edge in each class.

The book Evidence Based Technical Analysis is a good overview, suited to the layman.  Marcos Lopez de Prado has some recent work on measuring overfit which is quite excellent, if you're interested in the cutting edge, and mathematically literate.

I want to remind most of you here that it is not your fucking problem what I do with my money or what I think about any investment...it is still my point of view and I don't want to hear that I am being "foolish"... period.

Nothing trolling about it. I know of a person not participating because of this.

Paying with counterfeited money would be priceless.

Frankly, civil obedience is the worst problem facing the U.S. today.

How real is volume that is generated by 0% fees? We have to account for that.
Personally, I've only observed Bitstamp leading and Huobi following it reluctantly. I don't know why some perceive the opposite.

Woah... Since when are you a hero member, Eurotrash?

EDIT: I think there's a rule... no more meme pics, as a hero. Only serious analysis, presented in a stately manner

Like every losing bidder who tried his luck for a sweet deal at $200-$400 a pop will now suddenly want to jump in at $600..  
 

Ahh, Professor Bitcoin Last day for his $10 coin prophecy (and his credibility ).

Something to bare in mind, I'm as happy as anyone to see it going up BUT... we have bank runs in Bulgaria, the Spanish government dipping their hand into peoples savings, the UK government bypassing the need for court orders to do the same... All this will almost certainly be good for bitcoin but when economies fail people suffer. I'm reading through the history of economics during the Weimar Republic at the mo and its scarily similar to our current situation, millions suffered and much of the middle class became paupers in the space of weeks. There where also many that made huge profits from the situation... and there where lynchings. The banks greed is going to be their downfall and its going to cause a lot of misery.

when do we expect the winner to announce themselves? I say by july 7

You're selling at $5k

I wish I understood the monkey meme in here. Anyone care to explain? My inkling is that it serves to highlight the absurdity of predicting something quite unpredictable through parody. But this feels too complicated. Though amniorex does usually think at this sort of depth.

Can I have one?

A train

Monkey?  Is that you?  How did you....nah.

First we waited for the downtrend to end. Then we waited for the rally to start, according to the calendar.  Then we were waiting for the auction. What are we waiting for now?  

They have to win the world cup first.

My money is on it.

i miss those days of excitement when you didn't know exactly how high bitcoin would goo.. and everyone was rejoicing.

Or 100k.  Somewhere in that range  

Smooth growth is rational, bubble growth is irrational. People tend to be irrational in the face of fear so we're waiting for a fear-generating event perhaps.

I think the "fear of missing the train" comes when the price starts to move quickly upwards, hence the reason for the bubbles.  All we need is a little push to get it going I believe.

To everyone selling:

Thank you for selling me cheap coins. I was worried I would never be able to get coins this cheap again. We went down 5.5%, I'm sure we will crash all the way down to 350 now. Panic sell, probably your last chance to get your money out of this fake nerd money ponzi scheme. Bitcoin is dead.

To the whales:

Thank you for putting up huge sell walls every time the market tries to break upwards. You managed to prevent a breakout for over 12 hours yesterday as the price bumped its head into your walls. Now these idiots actually believe we are still in a bear market... I realize you all missed out on the SR auction, and now you want to buy in as cheaply as possible. It is flattering that you believe so much in bitcoin long term that you are willing to tank the market with your 100's of coins, just so you can buy more.

100s of coins in NOT a whale. A whale is something like 5k BTC and up.

No. He even said his security wasn't all that great. Passwords in a plain text file that was in a dropbox, which the password to that dropbox was not changed after heartbleed.

No that is now. If you think someone with ~$60k in Bitcoin invest is a whale you are delusional. Even someone with 5k BTC is a borderline whale.

Cheers

3 in a row  

Hey ChartBuddy, how you doing ? Doesn't seem to be anyone else around toady, so how about you and me just chill for a while hey ? Get to know each other a little better ... its' been a while since I hung out with a 3D chart - you may be able to give me a different perspective on things. I think a few people are feeling a little down today, but don't let them lay it on you ...

I am sure it just depends on the house, no matter what "world" he is in.  

Hmmm this is the slowest rally ever. Normally the price decreases slowly and increases fast (and decreases even faster during a crash).

I already posted this:


It really seems that some people are actually trading based on that trendline.


It gained significance over the last few days:

In a week's time (July 21st) the line will reach 666. The irresistible force will meet the immovable object.

Which line?

The last times the exponential baseline defined by the lows on a bitstamp chart was redefined were 9 Jul, 24 Jun, 1 Oct 2013, 5 Jul 2013, 11 Apr 2013.

They could have easily sold all those coins. On Bitstamp alone if they had to.

Bitcoin is not backed by energy, rather the way the blockchain reaches consensus through PoW is. This may seem like nitpicking but it is an important difference.
Bitcoins mined at difficulty 1 are worth exactly as much as those mined now. You can subscribe to the idea that the cost of mining dictates the value of bitcoin but I won't.

The value of a bitcoin is what the economy gives it. Bitcoin works and will work once no more block rewards are given out as long as enough miners mine for tx fees.
By your logic those miners will also dictate the price of bitcoin allthough the energy expenditure will most likely be less than it is today.

A lot of coins being removed from the ask side in the last half-hour or so.

Edit: Meh... forget that, my chart was just wigging out.

Just meant to ask the same. Do you guys also get a completely flat line for about 20$ in one/both directions? I thought it might've been a problem with the computer I'm currently on but it seems there's something awry.

It works the same way analog/classical/legacy securities markets work:  When there's good news, the market reacts in horror; when there's bad news, the market reacts with glee.

In the liar's promises market, this is understood to be because the prices are set by Fed policy, and when there is bad news, the fed makes policy drag risk up, while when there is good news, the fed is likely to allow slightly more rational risk discounting.

Why it happens in the honest proofs market as well?  I suspect the fiat pricing means the same risk discounting impact that applies to the vapor-at-the-break-of-dawn market gets applied to fiat-priced eternal verity market.  Fiat creates a web of illusions, and most of the fiat is held in the hands of unenlighted atavist ur-humans.

I am a hero now. Bow before me, lesser mortals!
*cough* Sorry for that.
As you were...

In on page 7777.

The 1W MACD crossed back and forth right before the last couple of bubbles. Final capitulation.

goes red late sept  early oct in 2013

Why do you think it closes on Wednesday? That's at least the second time someone's said that recently...

I'm sceptical. Go to Bitcoinwisdom's weekly chart and hover over this week's bar - the date (the start date) is shown, and for the current week it's shown as 2014-07-28 - last Sunday.

Russia finally bans BTC.

Legendary member don't have any privilage then Hero Member.
Just title and half yellow coin.

I've thought about this theory for quite a while now. The only thing I can't figure out is how many coins they are buying from miners. The most they can buy from a large mining group that doesn't pay out its individual pool members is under 800 coins a day. So why dump so much to only get 800 coins for such a small discount?

It's even weirder when you took part in the actions that are re-interpreted as being part of some 'grand scheme'. Didn't even know I'm an Illuminati member...

Start reporting stuff? This particular thread aside (which by the way is moderated by Adam), I do clean up, but it's largely invisible since the actual bad stuff is deleted. I could clamp down harder on thread quality control, but there simply aren't that many new topics created so that would detract from how fresh page 1 is.

I'm also sad that TERA is gone.

Well okay, but can this be the last delay please? Otherwise it might coincide with the shipping date of BFL or the date that MtGox will add LTC.

That means we are supposed to see Bitcoin going down, up, stay the same, or something to happens but no way to know what?

What was "driving the market" between end of 2011 and end of 2012?



Mostly price stagnation, and when there's finally a decent rally (to $16), it gets dumped back to half of that. And keep in mind, at that point, the "ATH" was $32, by that time about 1.5 years in the past.

Plus, while I don't have the tools to test this hypothesis, I consider it completely possible that a price suppression regimen is in place, by large accumulating entities (i.e. buying off-exchange at roughly market price, selling a portion on-exchange to suppress market price, repeat). I know it's what I would do if I would plan to buy in to the tune of 100k coins now.

Let us take it for granted that there is a concerted manipulation effort to drive the price lower.

What knowledge do you draw from this fact? How does it help your trading?

If the manipulator is able to achieve his desires with a minimum of resources, and there is no opposition to him, be it from opposed manipulation or natural buying, then what does it tell you about the state of this market?

Not sure I agree. I understand the desire to read the market in more fundamental ways, to understand "reasons" for price movements, but most of the time, that line of reasoning goes back to fundamentals and news - and that, in my experience and opinion, misses a big part of what actually drives the market more than half the time.

Anyway, I'm sure there is a narrative for the stagnation period of 2012 that is slightly more explanatory. In essence: necessary consolidation after an extremely volatile period ($1 -> $32 -> $2), together with the fact that no "real world" events took place that were strong enough to overcome that market sentiment (like: Argentinians decide big time to use btc as an inflation hedge).

As for a possible (partial) explanation of the current stagnation, see my point below...



I don't claim I believe with certainty that this is going on, I am submitting that, if a large enough entity (or several) would plan to buy large amounts of coins, and have some patience, this would probably a scenario worth exploring. In terms of tax efficiency, waiting for the ETF would probably be the better choice, but in terms of price control, the method I described would in principle beat a fund that is, ultimately, positive feedback linked to the markets.

I disagree that miners would prevent this taking place. No disrespect to miners, they're the backbone of the network, but amateur miners seem to be not necessarily the most economically rational actors. Go look around in this forum how often the fall for the fallacy: 'It's sunk cost anyway, I'll let my outdated miners run as long as they produce coins', and how often more economically minded users need to tell them that the actual calculation needs to be based on total cost of future production of coins (mainly: energy costs) vs. number of coins bought at market for the same costs.

Larger mining operations are undoubtedly much more economically savvy, but I've argued over and over again that I believe that, with the increasing "professionalization" of Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining, short-term profit opportunity will probably outclass long-term speculative investment. In other words: large miners sell more than they hold, especially considering that we are currently nowhere near a new uncontested bull market (which means the ratio of sold vs. held coins can change if the market sentiment changes, and miners might hold more than they sell if they feel it's a sure thing price will go up.)

Finally, we have plenty of evidence that public market price as determined by on exchange trading is a major reference point for off exchange transactions (just one example: the SR coin auction, where every party that spoke on it refered to "the market price" as if it were the obvious metric). Binding a large mining operation to you in a mid to long-term contract, maybe even offering a premium (although, from hearsay, I've only heard of large holders being made sub market offers, off exchange), then using some fraction of the coins to strategically depress price, would seem like a very good strategy to me, and relatively risk free: if it works, market price stays low, and accumulation proceeds at a low cost. If it fails, and price refuses to be depressed, the account value of coins gained so far appreciates, which is a sweet little consolation price.

Arbitrage by miners could throw a spanner in the works of this mechanism, but profits would be comparably marginal: the goal of the accumulator is not to destroy the on-exchange price, just to keep a lid on it. For the arbitreur miner, the reward is small (sold his coins at market price, is able to buy them back slightly below perhaps), and more importantly: for the large operations, the initial problem would re-appear - what to do with a large amount of coins, when you in reality prefer to hold USD (by my assumption that professional mining operations are short-term opportunistic, and not long-term married to Bitcoin success).

It's a tragedy of the commons style scenario: presumably, miners would be better off selling directly on the exchanges, since the higher volume generated there would ultimately drive up price, but individually, they fear the risk of lower profits because of increased selling pressure on exchange, so they seek arrangements off exchange.

I'll say it one more time: The above is (motivated, I think) speculation. I make no claim this is necessarily happening. I only point out that I believe it is a possible, maybe even probable, mechanism taking place, accounting - at least partially - for the current stagnation period.

People learn and recognize patterns. Spending 20 minutes looking at the 30 minutes charts for the last month should convince anyone.  I wish there was a site that would also show the buy/sell action, order by order, during a specified candle, as well.

Yesterday, we had the 2k wall and only a tiny dump (600 coins?), apparently because no big guys followed his lead.  Everyone remembers what happened nearly every day since June, especially the massacre at 500.  As soon as they buy and the trend is up, 1000 coins are market dropped on the market and they are sitting at a loss.

I suspect that it would take a 5 days to a week with no major dumps before buyers get any confidence that it is safe to buy.  Until that occurs, down we go.

It's a ponzi.
It's a pyramid.
There is no intrinsic value.
...
I should not go to bed now

we cannot go to bed

the next 8 hours are critical

 

New London based exchange = Bitok https://bitok.com/



http://cointelegraph.com/news/112481/bitok-exchange-launches-in-london

It is the dollar-zombie-pocalypse, presented to you by the Rest of the World™

1st post here after lurking for a while....  Long enough to have a swathe of miscreants on ignore. Seriously, there is no incentive I can think of which would encourage the commitment to trolling that some of this douches possess.

Anyway, I've been a hodler since last time we were in the low five hundreds. (In Aussie dollars that is) I was there fairly early on and was excited as soon I managed to finally understand the concept. This took a while as I hate money, I hate the system and have little in the way of financial knowledge. This ignorance has cost me a great deal and caused my resentment of the system to rise exponentially. I see BTC as a huge weapon against the status quo and a great equaliser for people like me.
There a few avenues for dissent these days and BTC is the game changer.
I've been on the sidelines as whether to risk more savings ( I'm one third of my savings in BTC, thinking about adding some Monero) buying more coins   but feel that now is the time. My strategy is put buy orders in for $20 below the morning market price (eastern standard time) before leaving the house each day while this current trend continues and then check in each evening for the gossip before deciding whether to leave the buy orders standing overnight. I hope to add to my hodlings at a decent price.
The average bloke in the street in my country doesn't know shit about BTC and I find the average ignorance level of my countrymen is off the chart. Our media stinks, our governments at all levels are obsessed with revenue collection, our banks are assclowns and post record profits every year I can remember.

I love BTC and what it stands for and feel the rubber band is stretched nearly as far it can go.

oh ye that doge rise looks legit, definitely a time to buy

We just voted against a European constitution. We were one of the founders of what turned into the EU.

Can somebody quote me on calling the bottom?
I would like to say "told you" in the future.
Today I had a new insight which confirms my previous prediction about the next bubble start (which you can read at the left)

The exact annualised inflation rate jumps around every day, depending on how many bitcoins were mined in the last 24 hours.

It is around 10-14% currently, but will halve to around 5% at block height 420,000.

not quite, a portion of the new coins will going directly into the "hodl" category so it is less than your 60% ... and it is not a 60% increase in total number of users but total new funds by users to maintain current price.

Looks like China has deep pockets. That's 'cos they can get fiat in and out easily, I wish we could do that....
EDIT: Bitcoin's the bottleneck now, how fscking ironic is that?

my doctorate supervisor in economics always says markets are non-existent, it have to be people who interact, anyway I know what you are saying but even that is not an answer. there have to be people who are willing to sell at that prices.

BTC have become very cheap because...

They're...

Made in China.

Not as far as I know, its easier to get their currency on and off exchanges is all, they've lots of payment processor options. Had a few hickups in the "China bans Bitcoin" days but fine again apparently.

... no, they've discovered the bitcoin mining capital control avoidance miracle, spend Yuans, buy mining hardware (or mining contracts) receive BTC, cash in overseas for USD/EUR/CHF/GBP ...

... the PBC banned banks handling BTC not purchase of mining hardware.

It's a photoshop. I can tell from the pixels.

So how exactly is this different from $32 to $2 in 2011?
If we're subject to "manipulation" now, we most certainly were manipulated back then.

We should be able to tell if the dumps are being made at times of maximum or minimum slippage. If minimum, it's someone just selling, if maximum, it's someone trying to get the maximum down-movement for minimum cost.

why hold when you can buy. Going to love this run up once the shorts get squeezed and the money on the side lines goes back in.

When I load it up I see a couple BTCChina charts, one Bitstamp chart, and one BTC-e chart.  I don't see Huobi, which is the most relevant exchange in China by far.

LOL well this is my thoughts

I'm expecting a beartrap down to ~340 after we have reached 430-440 and if it looks like it ain't going down anymore at that level, I would enter
Now if it goes wrong, i'll be fucked, clean and clear. But if it goes how I want it to and I feel pretty confident it will, then wow... Words can't describe it

However I want somebody to address my main question which is if it would be hard to get out all that money. Is bitfinex safe and trustful?

we will pass 400 level on oct 14th

OH GOD EVERYTHING IS SO HORRIBLE EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE, BITCOIN IS DOOMED, TRADERS ARE COMPLETELY KILLING IT, WHYYYYYYYYY

Your daily dose of shroomsy FUD. I wonder how this guy would have behaved in 2011-2012 when the price stayed below 32 for 1.5 years.

The degree of uncertainty in future price predictions is too high to make either judgement.  A second-order model treats epistemic uncertainty as an overlay to stochastic uncertainty, but there is no generally recognized quantitive analytic methodology for valuation under conditions of epistemic uncertainty.  It would be a wonderful topic for a Ph.D. thesis in behavioural economics.

They can reactivate Willy any time they choose.

I posted this a few days back sure we were going to follow the same path.  and confident we would not drop past $370.  Guess what..  I was wrong  but we are following the exact pattern as April bubble, it's happening.  I was just lazy in backing up with exact figures.

Here is what I posted last time.

And here is the current situation and the April bubble in more detail.  I used btc for April and stamp for the current situation.

Although my figures were wrong, we are following the same path.

This is how it works:

Nobody who had ever bought and held for two years has ever had to cut their losses.
think about that.

4h MACD suggests sideways or slow up for the next 24h, after that will come an inflection point.

If the benefits of holding Freicoin do not exceed that cost, then nobody will hold Freicoin.

Currencies are communication standards, like alphabets, or numerical systems, or the metric system, or charging plugs for mobile phones.

Please stop referring to the May 2014 price rise as a "bubble". It is part of the deflation pattern of the November 2013 (mania phase of the) bubble.
IMO there are 2 reasons for the May 2014 uptrend (that I called bull trap): the PBoC stopped feeding bad news to the market, so the market lost some
downward momentum and the linear descending channel broke, which was inevitable at some point, otherwise price would have reached 0$ by now.

We should have an answer in a few days/weeks, when we exit this thing:

Bold prediction for you boys n girls:

10000 pages on this thread by the end of November... (and probably Adam will still be afk)

PS
Hope everything is ok buddy.

Adam pls say something 

...

LOL  

maybe I sound pretty stupid, but can anyone explain me quick  what



that indicator tells me "MACD"

Oh, just in case nobody's said it in a couple of pages CCMF!

Who knew?

pretty annoying, was gonna buy last week but couldn't find any quick easy way to buy in Australia while avoiding the 10% GST, circle's credit card option didn't work either.

What does this mean for page 12345?

same here with Gox, it actually took 14 days to clear and price rose 500% in that time :/

yet another hero on "ignore"

Has anything interesting happened in the last month or two?

Now that was a tidy little nut-shell zeitgeist digest.  Thanks.

$2,000 is around the corner, I can feel it creeping upon us like a stalking leopard about to pounce on a bull.

Bitcoin is just not a good currency yet (I don't know if it will ever be a unit of account), but it already is a good asset for those who seek to control their digital wealth and invest in it.

No need for Joe Public, only need some people who value the properties I listed in an asset, and this is happening, see people like Winklevosses, Tim Draper.

A small post for me, a huge step forward for mankind!


10,000

Nom nom nom.... Those walls taste delicious!

I sold 200 BTC at $50 dollar increments above $100 on my wife's insistence.  I'm still pissed about those trades. But I forgave when she nagged me to dump 50 BTC at $1150.

And your dad sold loads of his right?

Does your family have any btc left? (though nice work selling at 1150)

We already have another looming 100k (or was it 90k?) auction on the horizon thanks to DPR's stupidity browsing his Silk Road admin panel in a public library and not encrypting his Bitcoin wallets.

... Mostly, Monkey just expects me to shut up and stay short SPUs until roughly Wednesday ...

BITCOIN WILL BE DISPLACED BY CRYPTOCURRENCIES WITH SUPERIOR FEATURES
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/cato-institute-bitcoin-will-displaced-cryptocurrencies-superior-features/

316 fell, next horizontal support would be 275.

Getting closer to 1 billion market cap.

😈

Havent been watching it, Was it a buy wall or a sell wall?

I said there would be a pullback from $300, but it's a waiting game. Wait until it's higher and you feel like the coast is clear and then put in your short,  but don't margin trade if you don't know what you are doing. The three surest ways for a smart man to go broke are liqueur, ladies, and leverage. Think big picture and long term.

All I can say is that if I survive this bear market, I am never EVER buying a Lamborghini. The world needs to know that Bitcoin is in the hands of competent managers of capital. They will not accept as money an asset that is so crazy volatile and who's decentral bankers are immature.

This storm will pass, and these parasites who took our money so easily will loose it just as easily when they don't expect to. They actually did me a favor by teaching me something I needed to learn and by making our project more accessible to new players.

I'm gonna take these bastards money and if I don't then I'm going to pay off the guy who does.  That's the beauty of the free market. Every trade is win-win or it doesn't happen.

 

Fun thought: The Ripple market now is like the Bitcoin market before shorting was possible on a substantial scale.

Yes, I mean that as: Ripple is in bubble mode and the burst will be spectacular, but I'm sure you can also derive the other implication

IMO if most traders would go 20:1 leveraged, most traders would go bankrupt and then price would collapse.

traders selling to buy back lower.

How do people verify if the data sold is real and not fake?

Bitstamp is down for me

Dear customer,

Today our transaction processing server detected problems with our hot wallet and stopped processing withdrawals.
You should STOP SENDING bitcoin deposits to your Bitstamp account IMMEDIATELY as private keys of your deposit address may be lost.
Your bitcoins already deposited with us are stored in a cold wallet and can not be affected.
We will send you more info as soon as possible.
Best regards,

Bitstamp team

Terrible gif. Who wastes their time making those. Impressive skills but wow what a sick waste of talent.

As for moderation... Ever been to the altcoin threads? There are thousands of troll wars and everyone is reporting everyone all the time. Moderation is overwhelmed and unfortunately you need mods active 24/7. I don't see any evidence of that.

LambTroll alone has like 10 accounts (I've ignored them all, hopefully)

I'm trying to spot these patterns you mention. Tell me if these are some of the corresponding dates:
crash on Feb 25, 2014 (spike on Mar 3, 2014)
crash on Apr 11, 2014 (spike on Apr 14, 2014)
crash on Oct 6, 2014 (spike on Oct 9, 2014)

"Western" exchanges in Hong Kong and Bulgaria. What's this world come to?

Idk, I don't trade but something seems wrong with coin movements lately. Coinport does live proof of reserve and their whole exchange is open source so other exchanges have no excuse for not implementing it too:
https://exchange.coinport.com/coin/BTC
http://www.coindesk.com/new-hong-kong-bitcoin-exchange-offers-customers-extreme-transparency-measures/

There's more up to date methods using multisig for user controlled balances too and any exchange that keeps up to date with transparency deserves promotion, those that don't should be considered scams with fake coins on their books, they've no other reason for hiding their reserves.

...  velocity of money ...

Have you ever studied the Iceland financial recovery which Greece is imitating? http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/financial-recovery-of-iceland-a-case-worth-studying-a-942387.html

The below Venn diagram is a vastly simplified representation of this (and already outdated too).

I'm completely dazed. Worse, I don't know what the symbols on the blueprint mean! There is some kind of a thing that at first I think is a window. It's a square with a little cross in the middle, all over the damn place. I think it's a window, but no, it can't be a window, because it isn't always at the edge. I want to ask them what it is.

You must have been in a situation like this when you didn't ask them right away. Right away it would have been OK. But now they've been talking a little bit too long. You hesitated too long. If you ask them now they'll say, “What are you wasting my time all this time for?"

I don't know what to do. (You are not going to believe this story, but I swear it's absolutely true - it's such sensational luck.) I thought, what am I going to do? I got an idea. Maybe it's a valve? So, in order to find out whether it's a valve or not, I take my finger and I put it down on one of the mysterious little crosses in the middle of one of the blueprints on page number 3, and I say, “What happens if this valve gets stuck?" figuring they're going to say, “That's not a valve, sir, that's a window."

So one looks at the other and says, “Well, if that valve gets stuck -- " and he goes up and down on the blueprint, up and down, the other guy up and down, back and forth, back and forth, and they both look at each other and they tchk, tchk, tchk, and they turn around to me and they open their mouths like astonished fish and say, “You're absolutely right, sir."

European integration has been working very well since 1951, thank you very much.

@fatman. It makes no sense to talk about it anyway. I said it took me months to know what i know. I read in Every Direction. This is fucked. And i can assure You that giving the kiev leaders weapons will not soften that Problem.
Why are they the ukrainian leaders? Half of the country was not even allowed to vote

I'm curious what books/articles you'd recommend, if there are any.

Why am I not surprised one iota by "Libertarian writings."

Anyway, so by "immune to poison" you mean "think critically about what you're reading." You could have just said that. Why do libertarians have to be so hyperbolic?

Are you saying you think it's "poison" unless you agree with it? And only people who agree with you are able to think critically? The rest of us are a bunch of mindless lumps just waiting to accept the first lie that someone tells us?

I think you ought to critically analyze whether or not you're guilty of the same exact thing you're accusing others of.

I didn't put words in your mouth. Putting words in your mouth would be "so you're saying X" whereas I phrased it "are you saying X?" They are more loaded questions (kinda not exactly but definitely not straight-up putting words in your mouth, since they allow you to clarify and respond in the negative). It's a dick move in and of itself, I'll give you that - then again, so is using a strikeout on a condescending statement, so all's fair, IMO.

Anecdotal evidence is useless (and sometimes even harmful), so I ignore that out of hand.

Ideological Turing Test is mostly irrelevant here, as I haven't shared my opinions with you in this discussion beyond the fact that I disagree with yours. I will say that I find the fact that you think we could even take this test - with you being mostly unaware of my opinions - may suggest that you might be too quick to dismiss those who disagree with you. Either that, or you think their viewpoints are so simplistic that they can be summed up accurately without knowing much about the viewpoints of the particular individual you are engaging.

So basically, yeah, you are guilty of doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.

Honestly, I can't believe you can sit there with a straight face and say "my side is doing better, anecdotally" and think I'm the idiot for disregarding the statement. But of course, I'm sure you've analyzed all that "critically," and are not at all biased because they agree with you or anything.

Poker Stars almost ready to integrate Bitcoin!

http://coinfire.io/2015/02/12/poker-stars-finishing-bitcoin-integration/

I think he said almost , so should be added soon.

It would be better if the feds just came out with a message saying: F@# off! We gonna HODL like a MOFO!!

... wrong, this a "Buy the news" moment, because all the psychology that you meticulously detail here with great effort has already been priced in awaiting this announcement. Only a few slow beartards traders will get caught expecting any drop ... that's all folks, next stop 2 fitty.

Looks like 1 week MACD will turn positive this week  

I agree.  Is this garbage what we want the newbies who just watched that CNN special to read when they hit bitcointalk and look at active threads?

I understand that there's a fine line between trolling and a completely valid bearish perspective.  So it is not right to moderate on-topic bearish posts.  But the trash I'm reading today is not the image we want to present to new bitcoiners.  Letting it stay here is a bad idea if you care about Bitcoin, even if you care but happen to be short today.

So I'm here posting on this thread to ask other bitcoiners to en-masse ask the moderators to start monitoring this thread until the off-topic trolling -- in fact all the off topic posting -- goes somewhere else.  

Please reply to this post if you agree!!!   Drown out the garbage posts with replies so the trolls see how little we appreciate their off-topic "contributions".

And also start clicking the "report to moderator" link on off-topic posts to this thread.

thanks,
theZerg

I reported several child porn references to the mods by clicking report and by msg. Result : nothing whatsoever.

Yeah it is a fine line between free speech and censorship. But this is a bitcoin forum. Am I the only person who thinks NLC posting from an alt called 'childpronz' is grounds for being removed from the forum? This place is plumbing new lows.

3) If you think you think that the problem with Nazi-Germany was taxation, then your ignorance is close to offensive. Which is quite a feat.

Not M1. M2. Including long term savings accounts. I use my bitcoins as M2 today. Long term savings account. On a paper wallet  

I think that's right. We are going to see more and more off blockchain type transactions such as me using my CB account to buy something on overstock. This effectively increases the money supply. It doesn't even have to be fraudulent. There is nothing to prevent fractional reserve bitcoin banks if consumers want them.

That's not going to happen anytime soon. Even the NY Bit Licence requires 100% reserves in USD and BTC.

I'm sorry, but I really have to disagree with your analysis. You are making a distincion between real and not real/duplicated money. But you are actually describing inflation/money printing. This process is not the same as the definition of M2. However, I agree that fractional reserving can be done with bitcoin for companies like Coinbase / bitcoin banks.

Because they chose their government.

Edit: Or as Oda said.

We all have a lot more say that someone living in China, N Korea, Zimbabwe etc etc etc

I feel pretty comfortable when I compare myself to those poor souls...

Because they have a better understanding of what a democracy is than you do.

Yes, I sense that a one-party state is what you're dreaming of.

Careful. By grafzep's algorithm, you're now on his ignore list as well ^_^

You are very selective when it comes to logic. So mind-reading is the best I can do.

Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us?

I'll start with the brief version: the sentiment communicated in the sentence I have marked with bold is illogical. It either means that you are an anarchist (left or right, one is dumber, both are illogical), or a liberal (don't start with faux inventive american term: libertarian) who can't grasp that the state plays a vital role in protecting those liberal rights, or you are someone who is anti-politics with strong political opinions.

Do you need more? Have I misunderstood something?

My claim was that based on my experience with you I cannot assume that there is a logical consistency behind what you are saying. What I was trying to show in the last post was why. Either you got lost trying to figure out what logic is, or you don't want to share with me which one of the three types of illogical political leanings you have. Or maybe there is a fourth that I haven't thought of. No moves, just curious.

Thats a great read.

Before buying my first bitcoin in December of last year I spent probably about three months looking at types of wallets and ways to keep your stash secure. In the end I have opted for the brain/paper wallet methods for my main holding and use online exchanges such as blockchain/coinbase for very small amounts for trading/gambling/purchasing.

I think really security is the BIGGEST problem for most people (even someone like me who is NOT a programmer/hacker but IS very competent on computers) had to really rack my brain with all this security stuff.

Again great read... I am not sure what I would do if I somehow ended up with crazy amounts of bitcoins. I think I would be very paranoid

Good morning, gentlemen, the temperature is 110 degrees.

Maybe not, but my monkey thinks 250 in a week or so.  Then 380 in April.

best case scenario we will have another pump to the moon (295 these days).

The government is merely a bunch of servants of the Canadian populace, not their bosses. The courts can tell the government to F off any time they wish, and frequently do.

Mark Twain — 'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.'

There's a world of difference between policemen/politicians and judges. Judges are bosses while cops and politicians are just servants.

It's an almost cyclic hierarchy. Small local gangs may intimidate members of the general public but are easily trumped by larger international organizations like the Crips or Hell's Angels, who are in turn trumped by the police.

The police in turn are trumped by lawyers who are trumped by judges (right up to the Supreme Court).

The judges (at least here in Canada) are appointed by politicians who ultimately must answer to the general public on election day.

What makes it a hierarchy and not just a circle jerk is the fact that despite being appointed by politicians, judges can overrule them and declare their legislation void. This is why I consider them to be bosses while the cops, lawyers and politicians are just servants.

Yes, you can avoid paying taxes if your accountants and lawyers can convince a judge that you shouldn't have to pay, despite what the politicians and cops have to say.

To me this is basic and essential to any democracy.

JMHO

Hi again Wary,

But how would you suggest that society should arrange itself?

With states, are you talking about sovereign states or federal states (Like the states of the USA)?
And how does your system of changing "protection provider" differ from migration, and how is it achieved?

... the Troll Observer thread. ...

You don't quite get how supply and demand works. Halving the supply doesn't mean doubling of the price, and vice-versa.
Let me try to explain.

You're on an island with 19 of your friends, and suddenly 10 of you become vampires, who need exactly 1 pint of human blood/day to stay alive. But you're still friends, because vampires or not, you're still bitcoiners.

By strange stroke of luck, it turns out each one of you who is still human can part with a pint of blood/day. Your vampire buddies feed on you, and you have sustainable equilibrium. Being bitcoiners, the humans charge vampires for their blood, as much as possible.

Now imagine what would happen to the price if just one of your human buddies decided to withhold his blood from the market? That's right, a bidding war would ensue for the remaining 9 pints of blood, prices go through the roof, not simply "up by 10%."
Conversely, if one of the vampires died due to sunburn, blood prices would plummet - there's 10 pints available while there's only demand for 9.

This is all meant to illustrate, in way too many words, that a slight change in supply or demand can cause a huge change in price.
If you're still having trouble grasping this, don't hesitate to ask for more help

... [discussion with troll] ...

> @Wary: Leave all that brainy bullshit to the mainstream so-called scientists. All the economic theory we bitcoiners need to know is "the cake is a lie!" & "buy and hold!"

I think you mean exciting times... lol.

He sent 100 from the 70k address. The 70k (minus the 100) is still sitting in the original address. It was simply sent back as change.

http://blog.circle.com/2015/04/30/new-circle-investors-new-us-dollar-account-features-china-horizons/

Gentlemen, get your engines ready

What? Are you a troll or did the website go down?

... And until this "complex and evolving landscape" is crossed over  (by using theze 50M$ to bribe Chinese officials  ),  ...

Circle's philosophy hasn't shifted. They've been focused on dollar balances using bitcoin rails since their inception. They're just now attempting to close that "circle".

What's more surprising is that Goldman Sachs is interested in the utility of an asset that has been crashing for a year and a half. Wall St. tends to stay away from such things.

A couple of years ago any serious financial services company would be crazy to take cryptocurrencies seriously. Now they are crazy not to.

Stop messing with my dig at stolfi 

Definitely, it takes a lot of work to keep track of the market and buy at the right time and risk to keep me employed.
...

...
... just leaching off of our society and wasting resources on a massive scale, just because they were born to some other rich people or because they succeeded in setting all morals aside when rising to 'the top'. Just enjoying the status quo were the kapitalists keep wages as low as possible by using an army of unemployed people as leverage over those who do have a job. Same story everywhere. Glad you agree. I'm sure you have personal experience with people on welfare and that you're not just some rich white kid in America who's never been outside his small social circle.

You bunch of dimwits! Yesterday was about celebrating unions and labor. Not thanking CEOs and shareholders. Not even thanking workers. Are you so ashamed of your own choices in life that you can't let this great force for good be celebrated without lashing out as if someone took a dump on your lawn?

Wrong. Nothing about existing implies wasting resources. Taking a plate of food is called using resources. Eating all the food off the table, so you can puke & your buddies get to go hungry is called wasting

white boy.

WTF is "default human behavior"? It's default human behavior to be a greedy asshole if you're a greedy asshole.

That's the sort of thing normal people control in themselves & discourage in their children. It's wrong. It's something to be ashamed of.

White suburban kid with reading impediment confirmed. Stop whining about racism, whitey

I'm all ears.

Quite possibly the best comeback ever! 

You should listen to Wary when he talks about hypocrisy. He's an expert.

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Still futzing along sideways in the $230s I see. Yawn.

What would be a nice is a little 50k series of buys to properly bump the price up and squeeze the shorters, but that's almost as unlikely as sub-$200 coins.

More likely we'll see more of the same with a possible temporary dip into the $220s or rise into the $240s.

Still, sideways is good, at least for those not paying usurious interest rates for margin trading. People who incur debt to gamble probably deserve to lose their money though.

Caffeine, do your stuff...

Are these the capital controls that's supposed to make greeks look at Bitcoin?

Well, its not like the greeks really have heard of Bitcoin anyway.

Except in finance minister Yanis Varoufakis' april fools joke. Irony is a bitch!


Edit: This is brewing to be The Perfect Storm!

Well, there's a Greek saying that goes like this:

"Among the funny things, pretty serious things are spoken"

Except you don't believe in "conspiracy theories"... Here's a nice one for you then.

If you ask me, yes; I believe that Greece should be the 1st one to incorporate BTC as a second currency. This way Gresham's law will take over and the debt will be eliminated (BTC=Non inflationary, EUR=inflationary). One after another the other -in debt- countries will follow... EU will be the 1st continent to test the new digital currency as it was the 1st one to test the EURO.

Too crazy to be real?

Remember: Fantasy has limits; Reality has not.

idk. a lot of well off greeks read about the finance ministers april fools joke, the same well off greeks who are looking to diversify out of fiat. It might just be a fraction of a percent who actually buys some coins, but that could still be a fairly large sum of money. 50-200 million euros flowing into Bitcoin will have a substantial effect on the current Bitcoin market. I know it's a long shot, but stranger things have happened.

Being cynical simply to avoid ridicule is the way of the coward. Rejoice and praise the rocket gifs! We are going to da blimmin  mooooon!!!!

Also, I'm a miner so I don't really have a choice.

You ignore Chartbuddy?

I consider Richy_T's bot to be perhaps the most valuable poster here.

To group it in with a bunch of trolls is unfair IMHO.

Going to bed soon but I doubt this thread will have more than two pages having gone by prior to me awaken later on. What a disgrace this market is becoming and hence this thread's jokeular status atm.

Does the word "launchpad" come to mind?

Rockets are launched in direction of the sky. Always!

Chartbuddy has been the only poster here for the last 4 hours! What's happening, this thread used to be buzzing and now there are tumbleweeds blowing through it? I suppose it's pointless tracking and discussing bitcoin price movement when the price stays exactly the same for days.

Actually, I just said the line is probably the reason why nothing much is happening right now.

its scaring

Who cares? It's a big line. The market isn't in panic mode yet. Either someone believes it won't go much lower or they are trying to prop things up while completing a large sale outside the exchanges.

-dumps                    -no effect
-Stocholm nasdaq      -no effect
-21 coming-out          -no effect
-long-term-trendlines  -no effect

Don't you remember the "general market behavior" of bitcoin from November 2013?


What if this time it's *not* different?

Were you watching OkCoin a couple days ago?

No. It's the bitlicence. It's too costly for lots of crypto businesses like exchanges to apply for it so instead they're just barring New York residents from using their services.

No. It's the bitlicence. It's too costly for lots of crypto businesses like exchanges to apply for it so instead they're just barring New York residents from using their services.

Silence for 5 hours straight. Interesting. Where's everybody?

Indeed, and regular nodes are not incentivized in any way, unlike pools which get block rewards.

As has been said before, everything etherium can do, bitcoin can do - and then some.

https://twitter.com/kncminer/status/631806510855667712

All companies in bitcoin ecosystem should do the same! 

It sounds as if they are describing bitcoin as it consists of merely software. It is the protocol which is the important thing, no?

I get your point now. But I don't get their decision. Seems like putting the cart before the horse.

Shall I build my great new business upon:
1) the world's most hardened and secure crypto currency, with the proviso that I'll need to rewrite some of the lower-level code; or
2) some apparently well-written software without any real-world testing, implementing new and novel untested technology, dependent upon new untested economic concepts?

Oh well, it's not my VC dollar...

Look what the cat dragged in! Satoshi resurfaced to fight the BitcoinXT fork!? That would've been very interesting indeed... I'd expect more from him (if he is the *real* one) though. For starters, I'd feel comfortable with some real interaction of his with the code instead of just pointing fingers. Secondly, I'd like to see a signed message from a BTC address that he owns. Third; wouldn't it be more dandy if he'd contacted Gavin in person to express his feelings?

I think this is fake.

PS:
FWIW, I believe that the small dump has nothing to do with this.

Democracy is the rule of the mob.
Bitcoin is a consensus system. Anyone trying to contaminate it with "democractic" process is proposing an attack at the heart of Bitcoin ethos.  

Consensus =! Unanimity

If you only have 1$ at your disposition then you are by definition poor and at a disadvantage over someone with millions. In an ecosystem as big as BTC this will make you an outlier and no matter how strong you shout your voice will not be heard because it is not respected.

Stop throwing "free market" around as if it makes any sense or is relevant in that situation.

Fake - and who cares.... only miners vote with their blocks, and they are at less than 1% in favor of XT xtnodes.com

Yes, weird stuff. Are they somehow faking or how is this possible? Earlier it was like 40%.

e. https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3iao3i/how_to_run_3000_completely_legit_full_nodes_aka/

Once the hardware is sold, the new owners of said hardware can mine whatever blocks they want. They can include or exclude any transactions as they see fit.

Sorry, I should have defined the difference between "new owners" and "current owners"...

- what I mean is that the "current owners" are incentivized by profit, hence their incentive to sell.

The "new owners" in this scenario, would be individuals or state-level actors that are not incentivized by profit. (Indeed, who would run unprofitable hardware except some "otherwise-incentivized" participant?)

These "new owners" would have no profit margin, no scenario in which they could turn a profit, thus their only motive now is to attack the network. Their only incentive for running this specialized hardware at a loss would be to harm the network.

Makes sense?

If the 1M limit is artificial scarcity, what about the 21M limit? Is that not also artificial? Should we remove that artificial boundary as well?

Bitcoin has already been classfied as VAT exempt in multiple tax jurisdictions , don't go expecting anyone to classify it as a VATable.

I believe that's no longer correct. (I think it may have changed fairly recently, to be fair - I seem to remember Australia being fairly hostile to Bitcoin until recently, and it may well have been subject to GST/VAT in the past).

Because this argument surfaces here all the time, I'll down put my thoughts on how this whole scaling issue is a problem that only exists because Bitcoin, or it's community, doesn't know to have a relationship with other coins. Let's say you have a Merchant that takes Litecoins, Quark, whatever as a peer to peer cash system at their place of business. At the end of the business day, the merchant consolidates their transactions into one Bitcoin transaction. This seems to be the same scenario that is being talked about as a 'Lightning Sidechain', except Core developers aren't invoking the dirty word of 'altcoin'. In this case, Bitcoin doesn't need to fork, because it isn't trying to be a single solution to this problem, and I'm not sure BIP 100, BIP 101 or whatever will enable Bitcoin to cope with this 'Mass Adoption' scenario anyway.

There is no scientific validity to the idea of different human races.

C'mon. World Wars are really hard. You'll have to be Russian or something to win one of those.

IDK. I seem to remember Germany lost that one too. Russia was just too busy beating itself up to bother with the krauts.