Anyone noticed there is actualy no real volume during this drop? I expected fireworks on stamp when crossing the 330$ mark (stop loss)... Same on finex? In past there was 4k+ btc traded in 15min.

How do we know there's not a china teapot in an elliptical orbit about the Sun?

Another exchange crashed. Willit have an effect on the price of bitcoin ?

Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I429-H75rII

I would have expected more selling around this level, but the pullbacks are very small and short-lived. 6h chart shows expanding green volume. Weekly MACD is green with clear accumulation zones behind us.

Everything is pointing to higher prices, yet BTC swaps back up to 20k.

At this point I feel like a decent percentage of the traders in this market have no clue how to read a chart at all, and are straight up gambling addicts.

say it to the rich people that invest million in bitcoin start ups...

loose

I don't know enough about Keynes (or Economics) to tell whether I am a Keynesian.  But I certainly do not "hate people saving their money", quite the opposite:  I wish people (and my compatriots especially) would consume less and invest more.  But I would like to see them choose productive investments; and hoarding currency (or gold) is not productive.

Hoarding currency is bad for the individual, because all currency will lose value eventually. (As you well know, I am sure that will happen to bitcoin, too, even if there may be another bubble or two.)  Hoarding currency is also bad for society because it harms the currency, by destabilizing its value.

Let me reming people that this discussion started when someone asked for my idea of a good cryptocurrency.  Well, among other things, a good cryptocurrency should be designed so that no one will be tempted to hoard it.

Because a tool that was carefully designed for one purpose is usually inadequate for other purposes, even if it happen to be the best tool available for them.

Bitcoin was designed from top to bottom with the assumption that it would be used as a currency that did not require trusted third parties.  For example, that is why it has blocks every 10 minutes (it should have been much less, but technical constraints prevented it). 

Satoshi did not expect mining to be industrialized and concentrated in half a dozen companies; not at this stage of adoption at least.  Had he known that the price today would be 230 USD/BTC, he might have scheduled the block reward to be 0.001 BTC/block today, so the mining industry would earn 0.144 BTC per day --  not enough for 1 guy doing GPU mining.  But that low reward might have made bitcoin more attractive to speculators... Frankly, I don't see how the mining centralization problem could have been avoided without demurrage...

Great, let's all do that then. 

Imagine if only we could give 0.003 bitcoins to every person on the planet. Once 1 bitcoin becomes worth a billion dollars, no one will have to work anymore.  Bitcoin cannot just put an end to hunger and corruption in the world, it can also abolish work!

So it works! 

No I am not invested in it, or in any crypto.  I may have read about Freicoin before, but did not know (or forgot) that it has demurrage.  If it does, it would be silly to invest in it, no?  That is the whole point...

It's really annoying to see people freak out about Stolfi. He's pretty straightforward about why he's here: Bitcoin is a fucking interesting experiment, in computer science, cryptography, economics, psychology, politics...

You can vehemently disagree with someone without throwing little tantrums about it. (Which btw... makes him seem like the reasonable and thoughtful side of the debate to curious spectators.)

As to his "ideal coin" it would be nice if it was coded up and competing in the marketplace. The fixed emission schedule is so important and central to satoshi's code. I highly doubt it was an afterthought or mistake. I think it was intended as a bootstrapping method... encouraging adoption and attracting value while starting out. Hopefully the last 18 months have demonstrated that btc hoarding is not the easy way to realize massive gains. It also demonstrates that people should invest their savings through the careful consideration of the opportunity cost of not investing in other things.

The genesis block gives a clue that Bitcoin is more than just a fancy way to move Keynesian directed fiat around the internet. It is the Austrian School's view towards an ideal currency coded together and launched. Success is by no means guaranteed, but it should be quite interesting to see how it all plays out.

Give me Stolfi posts any day in lieu of "when is we arising?" "see you on the Moon!" posts. I disagree with him on many things, agree on some... One thing should be clear by now, an echochamber of agreement and back patting is dangerous and annoying.

Debate: contention in argument; strife, dissension, quarrelling, controversy; especially a formal discussion of subjects before a public assembly or legislature, in Parliament or in any deliberative assembly.

You prefer more impolite-trolling? Seems there is a very dedicated individual to provide you with that...

Where exactly is he being dishonest? He's just stating his personal opinion, which may be proven to be correct or incorrect.

 

You still don't get it?  The purpose of a currency is not to be an investment. 

If someone has to make some payment for which XCoin would be the best choice, he should buy as much XCoin as he needs and spend it.  If some merchant thinks that accepting XCoin would give him 1% more profit, he can accumulate the XCoins that he gets for a couple of weeks (a 2% per year loss will not be significant) and then either sell them, or use them to pay other XCoin-accepting entities.  If someone earns a substantial amount of XCoin that he does not intend to spend in a couple of months, he should use it to buy some more profitable investment.  That is how a currency is supposed to be used.

So basically you are just as racist as anyone else...

muslim youngsters migrating to europe wants to breed your sisters and daughters. its a breeding war.

In the US it is no longer politically correct to "discriminate" on the basis of race, which is great.

Yet racism continues to be deeply rooted in the "standard American mindset", as betrayed by the "race" field in forms.  To most Americans, it seems mankind is still neatly divided into five "races", with no room for qualifications or even gradations. In particular, the children of "black" + "white" parents are still "black".  

Funny thing is that Americans do not seem to realize that such views themselves are racism.  To them, it is just common sense logic. To them, the "one drop rule" is not something to be questioned; it is the dictionary definition of the word "black".

No, sorry: "race" is not a scientific concept.  All the "scientific racism" theories that started in the 18th century and continue to this day are a big load of shit -- a conscious or unconscious attemmpt to justify colonialism, slavery, discrimination and persecution.  Darwin's Origin of the Species is totally misapplied.  Mankind is just one species; its populations have become separated only very recently in evolutionary terms, and genetic mixing is still strong -- even among social groups that try hard to remain genetically isolated.

Humans in isolation are not racist.  Children are not racist.  Many "savage" tribes, while strongly "nationalistic", are not racist, and often practice exogamic (inter-tribal) marriages as a rule.  Racial segregation is always a social phenomenon, imposed by society whenever two or more groups of people are competing for power or resources.  Biological differences, liek skin color, are then only a pretext -- a convenient label used by oppressors to keep the oppressed in teir place and deny them whatever is the real object of dispute,

My point is that groups do not oppress/discriminate/fight other groups because of biological differences, or even cultural differences (religious, linguistic, dress, etc.).  The motivation is always economic or political.  Those differences are just convenient criteria that the upper group adopts to draw a sharp line between "us" and "them".   Biological differences, when they exist, are "better" for that purpose than cultural ones, because "they" may change their customs and religion, and quickly learn "our" language; but "they" cannot change their skin color, and their children will inherit it.  

That is also the reason why racists do not recognize gradations, or put all "mixed race" as a single separate race. Social discrimination is by necessity a binary thing: either "they" are allowed to attend medical school, own land, live in this neighborhood, hold political office, etc. -- or they aren't. There is no useful middle ground in discrimination, so when race is used as a basis for it, it has to be a discrete classification, not a continuum.


Real biologists do not use the term "race" because the concept is bullshit.  They use "sub-species", but, as you wrote, it applies to populations that are biologically able to interbreed, but have different gene frequencies because they have been kept separate by geography or other reasons (such as disjoint flowering times).  When the obstacle disappears, subspecies usually mix and the distinction disappears.

Indeed, natural evolution invented sex even before it invented legs or brains -- because it found that mixing genes is good for life in general.  By nature, individuals generally have a drive to pick prtners for "DNA mixing" outside their group, as long as the genetic differences are small enough to allow it.  Avoidance of other "races" is always a social imposition.

No human population has been isolated long enough to make cross-breeding impossible.  The Australian aborigines and the Andaman Negritos, who may be the extreme branches, have split out from the trunk less than 100'000 years ago.    Even the Neanderthals are now known to have interbred with "modern man" ("Cro-Magnons") in Europe and elsewhere.  

For as far back as we can tell, entire nations have migrated by thousands of kilometres in a few generations, because of war, climate changes, population pressure, hunting opportunities, etc..  Mountains, rivers, glaciers, deserts, even open oceans were never hard barriers to human movement. Humans are very mobile, so genetic flow between populations has never been zero.

Moreover, each gene spreads, mutates, and is selected for mostly independently of other genes; so there is no single gene, or even a gene combination, that could be used to distinguish the so-called "races".   A single individual who moves from one population to another will inject his genes into the latter's gene pool, and any of his genes can spread to the whole population, just by random genetic drift, over the span of a few centuries.  So, even if there are environmental or social factors that make dark skin (say) disadvantageous, that trait may quickly disappear, while other genes that came "in the same boat" with dark ski will persist and spread.

A sobering exercise, that underscores how silly the notion of "race" is, is to compute how many ancestors you had by the year 1000 CE.   Any one of your genes may or may not have been inherited from any one of those ancestors.  How can you tell that none of them were from "race X"?


Well, I have read a cubic meter of Scientific American and half a cubic meter of Science (which is the second most prestigious journal for biology, after Nature), mostly cover-to-cover; and some books on human genetics, like Cavalli-Sforza's.  I have dabbed in computational biology and even published a some minor things on that subject.  Yes, I think I can tell with sufficient authority what scientists think about the concept of "race".  


That is not a strong enough reason to explain why scientists reject the concept of race.  There have been many "scientists" and even real scientists in the past who have openly held racist views, and even got praise and money for that.  Around the 1930, Stanford was sort of a center for that sort of thing.  (I recall that in the 1980s, William Shockeley -- one of the inventors of the transistor -- was at Stanford, and was an outspoken believer in races.)

But, curiously, the belief in "race" seems to have been stronger among scientists from other fields than among geneticists.  Even before the genetic code was deciphered, geneticists could not ignore the complexity of actual gene distributions, that had little correlation with racial boundaries.  Now that we can read the genome, the absurdity of the concept is obvious even to non-geneticists.

Ancient astronomers assumed that the stars were located on a sphere centered on the Earth; so they though that the apparent groupings of stars on the sky were all important, especially those across the ecliptic that were "visited" by the Sun, Moon, and planets.  Astrologers built a complicated intellectual edifice on top of them. But once astronomers determined the true distances to the stars, and figured out the three-dimensional "geography" of the cosmos, they realized that constellations and star magnitudes were just meaningless illusions, and astrology was total bullshit.  

Well, the concept of "race" among biologists had a somewhat similar history...  

My child is asian, african, and european(both north and mediterranean)

Please let me know what race this is.

Please let me know what relevance the answer would have.


 

Pro-fiat: Entire world.

>Gaddafi wanted a gold based economy
>ded

Yeah, looks like the whole world

Well said, Jorge.

You have no idea how recessive and dominant genes work, nor how they are passed on between generations. Go play with some Punnett squares

Do you think the West doesn't carry out atrocities on innocent civilians? What happened in Paris might be a reaction of all the mess in the Middle East initiated by the US-led coalition.
Also, multiply by ten the latest terrorist attack and replicate it each day and you may get an idea of how Middle-Easterners live below ISIS, a Frankenstein whose father is the "civilised" West.

What is there to explain or argue? This is no different than asking a civil engineer to engage in a serious discussion with a "9/11 truther", or an aerospace expert to convince someone who's convinced the moon landings were faked. It's waste of time, because the opposing party is clearly unwilling to spend any amount of time and effort to learn the basic concepts of the respective field, and will solely aim to win the argument by rhetorical smoke and mirror tactics, not scientifically adequate reasoning.

How about not assaulting and invading other countries and funding "rebels" to topple the local not-very-West-friendly governments?

In principle, you are right. But this "discussion" started by an abuse of rigidly defined terminology of the field that has currently the best understanding of the topic in question ("recessive", and "biology").

If someone claims that prime numbers are divisible by some other number (other than 1), do I need to seriously argue against that? There's obviously a difference wrt absolute certainty between a purely formal result (of pure math) and an empirical result (like in biology), but even in the latter case, the result is still a lot closer to "certainty" than "totally up for uneducated debate".

What I said would surely help. If I remember correctly 8% of France population is Muslim and the attack was orchestrated and carried out by a handful of people who were raised in France. Who is at fault here is the French intelligence.

Which is why I gave a hint as to where to start looking.

There's no point having an argument when one side has a totally invalid foundation for theirs. Quite simply, he is wrong though actually strangely attractive.

I subscribe everything you said. The real solution would be eradicating relics which should be consigned to the dustbin of history: namely fanaticism and religion (any religion) through reason, but this is my very own point of view and far less likely.

Nah, won't be like that at all. You'll still be a bitter, angry little shit. Some black d00d will prob'ly make you his bitch, without Nanny State to protect you

Sure, we aren't robots (thankfully) but if you're not indoctrinated in a vulnerable phase when your mind is still in formation, that is, during childhood, you probably won't blow yourself up because a fantasy book says that you'll get 7 (77?) virgins at your disposal if you kill "infidels".

Riiiight.
Now hush! Put your li'l white hand in Leroy's back pocket and call him daddy

The pivotal point is the creation of killers through indoctrination. There are many groups who can coexist peacefully: Harry Potter fans, "beliebers", even bitcoiners (actually for the last one I have some doubts) and they do no harm. They are welcome to expand their member base as they please. The issue is when you have to confront brainwashed fundamentalists, and you can solve the problem only by sparing the younglings the same treatment.

In Europe we've been killing each other for millennia and this wasn't due to skin colour shades. In the US volunteers regularly carry out executions with no distinction.
A human can easily kill another human being simply by inhibiting his or her empathic instincts.
About the world resources scarcity, this is a different matter. We're either too many or too inefficient, but our problem has been experienced countless times by other species: the depletion of resources which then become the limiting factor.

holding fiat has burned me zero times

I hear what you're saying, but it comes back to economics. You can't have SUSTAINABLE growth without capital formation (savings). You can't build wealth without deferring gratification. A fisherman who wants to be more productive than catching fish by hand has to take time away from fishing to make a fishing rod.  Then he catches more fish faster, but he has to take time away from that to make a net or a trot line. 

 Fiat and artificially low interest rates are designed to increase the velocity of money at the expense of capital formation. This will destroy the economy in the long run. We're in the process of watching that play out now. 

When you ask an economist a question like that, they will respond with "as compared to what?" The question is meaningless otherwise.

It's totally up from here.

Ain't no fucking 380 happening.

Big blocktards

NSA Switches To Quantum-Resistant Cryptography

According the NSA, the following isn’t safe to use:

    ECDH and ECDSA with NIST P-256
    SHA-256
    AES-128
    RSA with 2048-bit keys
    Diffie-Hellman with 2048-bit keys

If you had varying water pressure at your house, where one day you had a torrent and the next day a trickle, would that make you want to buy stock in the water company?

...we're more fucked then the US government under trump.

Wow. Just wanted to read somehting about the BTC price coiling like a snake, instead I get treated to some utterly naive racist bullshit. I just can't believe someone is on the internet and still believes these kind of things that stem from a time when people only knew the people in their own town. Just wow. Troling or just stupid? It hurts my brain either way. This thread has really become bitcointalk's trollbox.

Coiling like a snake right guys?

I feel for you man. All this hate is poisoning you. What I object to is that you will poison others with your hate. Hate breeds insult (like calling me a traitor) and violence.

Coiling like a snake!!

I'm not a victim. Nor do I have a handicap -- on the contrary. If that bothers you, that's your problem.

And therefore, all Muslim immigrants are bad. Well, I happen to live in a city with 35% (mostly Muslim) immigrants and their descendants, so I know better. But I should have made that handicap clear from the beginning, right? 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/police-say-13-year-old-girl-kidnapped-and-raped-by-asylum-seekers-in-berlin-was-actually-staying-at-a6843786.html


Get your FACTS straight you angry little person.

Most rapes in the world are done by men. So by your logic, all men are dangerous. Face palm moment...

You're really stupid. My dead family members were victims. I'm not. To me, it's important to show what people like you can achieve if you and your sympathizers have it your way.

I had to look up miscegenationist (English is not my native language). At least I learned a new word today. The fall of the apartheid system in South Africa must have been a real blow to you, right?

 

I'll never be as smart as Einstein, so why bother going to school (or as Patient_Bear says, nirvana fallacy)...


Because it used to be about ten minutes a few days ago, and going to be fucking impossible soon if this shit keeps up. Also middlemen. You'll need those too

Because transactions *did not* take "about an hour" a few weeks ago.
Because if you wish to use Bitcoin in the future, you will need to use "scaling solutions" like Lightning Network, which is basically*prepaid gift card, for every entity you wish to do business with, which uses Bitcoin as a settlement layer* (i think they call it "open a payment channel").
Would be glad to be more explicit, just ask specific questions.

But that's the techy side of it. The meat of it is that people are catching on to the fact that Bitcoin, like just about everything else, DEPENDS ON OUR TRUST IN PEOPLE. People at the top, people who are ambitious, egomanaical, corruptible. People who, without a clearly defined set of rules (laws) and an enforcement framework (jackbooted thugs) turn into spoiled children and can't be trusted.
People who would for stroking/paltry sums, will sell you out to the highest bidder.
Because rational self-interest.

Let me freshen your memory.
Your transactions always took "about an hour," or, as you put it, "still instant."
Guess our differences are rooted in semantics. To you, "instant" = "about an hour."
And while "instant" used to mean "about 10 minutes," instant = instant, so nothing has changed.

That's because it costs nothing for your VPN to trust you. That's what 0-confirm transactions are, trust.
Like an honor snack bars -- you take some cake & a cup of coffee, you drop some money in a can.  Or don't & cover it later. Hurrah, new trustless currency, the IOU!
Usually works, too, but not what BTC is trying to be.
We wanna pretend this is like grownup money; verifiable.

>With the standard 0.0001 fee.
There is no "standard" fee. There is a suggested per-KB fee, which today's wallets claim to guesstimate for you. My guess is you're making shit up on the fly.

Current bitcoin hodlers are surprisingly 'strong hands'. There is so much FUD and pessimism currently that the situation is quite scary for some, I'm sure. On the other hand, there is Ethereum's amazing bull run...which surely attracts some greedy btc hodlers.

I hope I didn't speak too early, though  

Satoshi didn't get the memo that he is retarded for contemplating the flood/spam/dust attack vectors. We should give him the "retard of the century" award.

He writes at one point:


That's so blatant, as a lie, it's not even funny. Andersen's credibility tends to zero. Core's roadmap has a Segwit rollout in a few months, increasing tx/s and effective block size by ~70%. How can he pretend like there is absolutely nothing?

Who cares about "some devs" when Core has an official roadmap with segwit up ahead. The criticism, if you look at the expanded paragraph, is aimed directly at core for supporting things like LN instead of ever-ending block increases, all the while pretending they offer zero on-scaling solutions.

There is no full block issue. There is spam issue. As soon as spam attack stops everything is perfectly normal. Increasing blocksize does nothing to solve spam issue. You can not solve spam issue by giving spammers more free space to spam!

So?!... My point is: giving more space to spammers doesn't solve anything and just gives spammers incentives to spam more. What is your point?

Sorry, I don't respond to people with paid signatures. 99% of them don't understand what they're talking about. What they do care is only how much posts they make.

spam

See, even a 'dumb' person can see that it cannot scale. For a bitcoin system that wants to cater for 10 million -1 billion customer base increasing blocksize is a largely ignorant approach (a band-aid on a gunshot wound), the most technically sound decision here is to saturate the base layer ASAP to gather data and build out higher layers as necessary based on that information.

My definition of spam is when someone doesn't transact because they want to make an economic transaction, but rather to do something else, like filling blocks with crap or bloating the blockchain.

Apparently satoshi did take it seriously and had planned the fee mechanism as a countermeasure.


Obviously, fees won't work as a countermeasure for spam if they are too low. The whole point is to disincentivize the attacker. If the attacker doesn't feel sufficient pain he can easily proceed with the attack. Giving the attacker more space to conduct the attack, instead of more fee pressure, will simply amplify the attack and reduce the attackers cost.

The fee pressure might originate from either blocksize scarcity, miners setting a higher fee limit to what they process and/or devs setting higher default recommendations (or even network enforced fees - as long as the miners run the code).

You asked me about my definition of spam, not how we can limit it by using code.

That's the plan: Segwit = 1.7mb to 3mb (depending use), plus solves tx malleability.

Obviously, all these "disagreements" aren't about the ~300kb difference between segwit and a 2mb hf.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't have any evidence that we actually need >1mb right now, although we will get >1mb... there is actually no plan that keeps bitcoin at 1mb.... core says 1.7 in a couple months, classic says 2mb with contentious/destructive hf, so... there you have it.

When you have tx fees ranging from 1 to 5 cents (depending the priority one wants), that means there is no overwhelming actual transaction demand which in turn has an underdeveloped fee market while also allowing spare capacity to be used for spamming and wasteful transactions.

The fact that some people have 1-2 cents in their wallet software and it takes a few hours when there is an attack, is not enough to hf bitcoin and it won't change their user experience once the 2mb are flooded the same way. Therefore they need a better wallet software. The system is working as intended per satoshi's instructions on how to bypass a flood attack (you outpay the spammer). If users don't know it, it's because their wallet software obviously doesn't do a good job of notifying them that fees are dynamic and not static.

As for the timing: Even if the code for HF was issued tomorrow it would still get activated months ahead so that users can get prepared. If the recent "transaction problems" are any indicator, then if people don't even know that they have to pay a few cents to transact, then they can't *really* be depended upon for upgrading in time. It will simply create a mess. So, TLDR, segwit deployment would be much faster. A HF should be planned well ahead, again per the instructions of Satoshi.

When you are dealing with billions of dollars, it would be irresponsible to suddenly change without any actual techinical reason (besides a bunch of loud mouthed cunts complaining).

Bitcoin is not a business.

If it goes up it's because of people like you, not the gen pop who's dollar has suddenly become worthless. It will tank back to zero eventually.
For some reason you believe the avg person will suddenly give a shit about crypto in an economic collapse. Why?

Nothing like a decisive strong leader to get your country out of economic woes.

You. Now, fuck off!!!

You guys should check out solitude's post, he even took pitchas!

Whelp, Stalin doesn't start world wars & lose them, there's that...

*killed 50 million *communists*. Like a boss.
You're not a commie, are you, Ibian? Because you sound like a commie.

Looks like Mr. Trump is gonna have to ban Bitcoin to make his Mexican Paywall work. He probably won't tho.

Right?

  g... guys?

I don't think so...the community is in denial because every "proof" Wright has provided was fake...So until he'll publicly verify by cryptography that he is really Satoshi, i'll rather stay in denial, because after watching this guy talking, i would really consider selling all my BTC, because that guy is obviously over dramatic and weird with the "i will never ever accept nobel prize" etc...also if he would be so privacy seeking as he and gavin claims, he would never step up like this with faked proofs...he would just move to other city, country...it makes really no sense at all....drafts of btc white paper...yeah right...i am the real satoshi, can you prove me wrong? Or will you be in denial of me being the real satoshi?

Passionately hating Jews, or any/all non-Aryans doesn't automatically make you a Nazi. There's nuance here guise, Geez.

Well it seems its going too fast up, as before it will happen again it will be deep splash underwater soon.

And food. The west produces food. In abundance. The rest of the world needs to eat something.

Not well?

Yeah, you're just not open to shifting paradigms and thinking disruptively. The Truths of the Order of the Rosy Cross are more powerful than bioth your beetcoin and BBQcoin put together.

Why? This is just the beginning.

Someone who sees how thin the bids are, and just wants to lock profits?

Maybe i am missing something?  I don't really see a problem there?

Definitely there is increased volume depicted, yet I believe that all that indicates is that for the time being there is a little bit of a price battle going on, but gosh psychology is definitely on the side of the bulls, no?

I mean, it is going to be somewhat difficult for bears or shills to attempt to convince us  (even the most naive of us) that bitcoin is ded or dying, no?  

Down to under $32MM again though, even though I can't imagine traders have ditched $3MM again in that short time with that volume.
These strange spikes seem to happen more often. Any idea what might be causing them?

that means at least 2-3mio$

?

It's important to dump on anybody that believed that.

Has anyone thought that maybe the halving has already been priced in...?

Remember the market is always way ahead of the talking heads...  

disclaimer:I'm just a simple man with a simple plan

You people had such promise; with all the benefits afforded you by history, America somehow still manages to be the worst country in the developed world. Your mug of a would-be world leader regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, and misogynist who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the US. What happened to you? 

Donald Trump: the most bewildering act of self harm since Brexit. I hate politics.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles.

Actually they constitutionally NOT allowed to ban based on whole religion. First Amendment

Nope. I mean they wiped out whole populations in the past that doesn't mean they had constitutional right to. The fact that it happened in the past doesn't mean it can be achieved now. Stop changing arguments.

Why else would you go to Canada?? Come on, give me just one good reason. Protip: you can't.

I understand having 1 trillion GBP to sell, but where do they find USD to buy 1 trillion GBP? Last time I checked their foreign reserves were something like a few hundred billion.

Basically, yes. But if you look at what he wrote and not what he meant you could say that the base of the minimum price is the cost of running a handful of RaspPi's. The myth he is attempting to promote is perpetuated by many Hero and Legendary members of the community. Sort of worrying. And a good indication of how much trust you should put in anything written here.

But money spent does not mean there's value.

BFX is throwing all their withdrawals into the mempool and the xactions, ALL OF THEM, are getting stranded. A huge exchange like that, how long do you think it's gonna take before something like that affects the spot price?

2FA really turns me off of most exchanges. Since I cannot bring my phone to work I am stuck only using sites with 2FA at home. This sucks when I'm sitting at my computer at work and want to buy something or pay a bill or whichever.

I understand the reason for it, but Bitfinex also had 2FA which was completely bypassed.

Great decentralization  for new investors and everage JOE .

no trains and rockets, weird.

anyone still operating there is asking for it.

so funny such optimism and emotion, half this forum already feeling millionaires.

u guys have that look of the deer in front of the car light

im looking fordward for a dumpage that will crush fanatics and bring them into tears.


then i buy some more of course...


but it just doesnt seem like the time for rally

what exchange would indians go on? localbitcoins and everything else are irrelevant for price movements. i can't imagine indian banking is the hottest in the world if they were wiring to china or america.

what sort of events do people think it would take to silence all but the most committed detractors?

100 billion market cap for more than 6 months? becoming the official currency of the vatican? amazon saying they're gonna remove all their products and only sell bitcoin from now on?

sure, the denigration's never gonna stop. people still talk shit about gold and that's only been around for a few thousand years as a form of value.

but in many minds bitcoin is still small and fragile enough for a lot of people to be convinced that it'll be dust in a short while. i was wondering what would turn their thinking around even if they still hate the idea of it.

hahahahahaha

Yeah, innovate, don't follow the herd.


When everyone else is buying, sell.

That should turn out well.   

Sometimes the biggest walls are at lower prices.

Remember the epic Bearwhale wall in Oct 2014? That was 30,000 coins at $300 per.

Indeed. I never read that book but I've seen that ploy before. In fact I see it all the time.

The big difference is that it usually gets pulled after a certain amount of nibbling. Bearwhale stood by and watched it all get eaten.

As it is he had ample time later to buy back at a lower price.

You don't need to be proud of your alcoholism.

I think that you are correct.  There is a kind of mindset that wants to keep doubling down and leveraging, and even when those kinds of folks might have periods of rationality and logic, they let a kind of greed - or gambling or rolling the dice  - take over their actions.. and periodically they win really big, but in the long run, the odds catch up with them and they are constantly attempting to dig themselves out of holes.

So we should continuously attempt to caution folks against this kind of approach, because it is dangerous - and even if they have won BIG TIME in the past, they gotta consider better long term approaches that may not make as much money but help to set themselves up for longer term profits and/or financial security.

From time to time, I have some of those kinds of Local bitcoin (or direct) trades that cause me to experience an immediate $100 or more locked profit, and sometimes it can take quite a while to put sufficient systems in place (having money in a multitude of places and floating the money) to be able to lock in those levels of instant profits, and really, the practice of profits may begin with much lower levels of profits and just getting used to locking them in on a regular basis.  I frequently have trades that only have $1 or so profits, but sometimes, they will run a streak and I get locked in profits from a multitude of small profits, but having the smaller profit locking in system in place allows for the taking advantage situations and opportunities for larger profit trades, without putting a large portion of the principle at risk.

In-person or purely online?

Bitcoinity shows bitcoins sell through localbitcoins for higher prices than exchanges. Wouldn't buying on exchanges to sell on localbitcoins be profitable, and vice versa be unprofitable? These are the latest prices bitcoinity shows for the kraken and localbitcoins.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/kraken/USD = selling at $782.0 and buying at $782.1

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/localbitcoins/USD = selling at $881.8 and buying at $1114

How can you make profit buying on localbitcoins at between $881.8 and $1114, then immediately reselling on kraken at between $782.0 and $782.1?

edit

Bitcoinity shows today's localbitcoins 24 hour high was $2581, and its low was $343.1. Is that how you do it?

I never imagined the prices were so volatile on localbitcoins.

And how, if I may ask, you deal with BTC pseudonimity? Are you so paranoid to keep everything separated, un-linked (with mixers etc.)?
I would love to have a more fungible bitcoin in this case.

Minimum safeguards can be using a unique address for each transaction (or at least mostly attempting such), and sending coins to locations, such as exchanges, that are less involved in gathering your personal information.

It does become a little bit cumbersome to deal with multiple address, but you can attempt to develop systems to deal with keeping track and organizing such... even though less than a perfect situation.

Which wallet - or app do you use?  Are you trading directly through local bitcoins, and then using their wallet?  I am pretty sure that they are changing the address for every transaction, even though you may not be able to see that under the surface?

I use the local bitcoin wallet for my first transactions with folks, but then after I get to know them, I will do future transactions directly by using the Blockchain app.... and I manually create new addresses with the blockchain app (sometimes I will reuse the addresses a few times before I transfer all of the coins out and archive them).

And, you are correct with your indication (by your description of your situation as an example) that there are going to be differing levels of efforts that are made in the direction of attempting some level of privacy.

Yeah, the thing is I imagine getting followed and 5-dollar-wrenched by a junkie or criminal of some sort.

Actually, I have a little bit of a personal story about this. 


Between November 2013 and about January 2015, I invested most all the money that I had preallocated to invest in bitcoin, yet, as we know through the first 8 months of 2015, bitcoin floated largely in the mid-$200s (it's lowest price for the previous 14 to 20 months), so it was a good time to add value to the bitcoin holdings.  However between February and August 2015, I had some cash flow issues, due to some business arrangements that I had.  Therefore, through the February to August 2015 period, I would buy very very small amounts of bitcoin on almost a daily basis with every extra $4 or $20 dollars that I had coming in (besides what I needed for my living expenses and other business expenses).  Over those about 7 months, the ongoing small and regular amounts ended up adding up to thousands of dollars invested into bitcoin that ended up helping me to justify my beginning to trade BTC in October 2015 (meaning that I could begin selling small amounts of BTC at a profit, after the price began to break above $250.  In essence my ongoing accumulation of very small amounts caused me to accumulate a sufficient quantity of coins below $250 in order to justify (in my mind) that I could begin to sell small amounts and then to apportion my risks (in case the price of BTC came back down again - which it kind of went up and continued to go up from there.. hahahahaha... lucky for all of us who HODLd and continued to accumulate BTC through that long bear market period)

All I know is there is no f'g way I'd buy a $777 bitcoin. Would you?

Now, why would you dare to sell bitcoins if they are headed for thousands in value? let me guess, you want more dollars.

I'm holding my coins because I don't even know where I would sell them now that IRS is looking at coinbase.

Well good morning Bitcoinland.

I see we not only held last night's gains, but added to them as well.... $825USD on Bitcoinaverage.

How much further up before the inevitable retrace/profit-taking?

Just passed $1100CAD also. Ever closer to the ATH.

not really. you'd never notice. that's why they're looking off exchange to buy them. these mega buyers seem a little naive to me. there can't be that many people who have access to that many coins and they're also going to know what their future worth might be.

It's $830 again.

OMG. I come home late last night to see it over $800. I come home early tonight and it's up over $850.

Dare I say CCMF?

What will I see in the morning?

Bbbut... but... if no one buys in the $900s, it never will go up, thus it will never get to $10K.

See the irony?  Food for thought.  jk

_{(I do often wonder though if the n00bs think that the price goes up by magic. They don't get that someone always has to be buying, at whatever the price is, in order for it to rise at all.... and it should be them doing the buying, not the wealthy elites.)}

I keep thinking about transferring a chunk of my retirement funds into Bitcoin. Would be a good investment, especially with the recent currency manipulation being done by govts.

Maybe, maybe not!
But it's good we see some correction after the last few crazy days.
Overheating never had been good as we know from the last years.
The whole year we've seen nice and healthy growth.
I would like to continue it that way!Less scary for people who be interested to get into for their first time!

You seem to be setting yourself up for failure if you are expecting $850 to hold in order for bitcoin to be in a state of "awesome"

We gotta also remember that we have not really experienced any kind of meaningful downward price correction since the lower $600s, so we could experience a correction that goes down 15% to 25% or even more (even as far down to lower $600s), and we will still be a decent state with bitcoin and I believe that we would still be in a bull price uptrend as long as prices generally stay above $600.. even if there were a spike below $600.

I think that bitcoin is in a state of awesome because it already spiked up to $920, and so far we have had about a 7% correction from the $920 price of the past couple of days...

I don't bank on any such spike below $600 (which would be a quite large 50% correction), but certainly, I am currently in a phase of buying bitcoins, and I am buying in small increments all the way down - even if prices were to spike below $600..

In this correction, I have been buying in small increments since $890...   because I have no clue regarding how long this correction will last or when it will stop..... which seems quite plausibly below $850.. and I think that we are still in a state of "awesome" because it was quite amazing to go from $790 to $920 in a matter of just a couple of days...

Don't worry!
In a few years when Bitcoin may be worth a shit ton of money she will hang on your lips and listen very closely to almost everything you're saying!

Possibly - I've heard that said before in these parts. Personally I find it hard to believe that the Chinese are willing to take such an instananeous hit to their wealth.

Could be that the Chinese are carrying this market and that we are the laggards (not us personally of course - but nationally)

I would have expected something about the tattoos from Fuhrer R0ach, asking about the special double scyte tattoo... but I guess there is more prejudice than I thought..  

Agreed - but wouldn't you use BTC as a hedge - rather than cashing out into $ at an immediate and substantial loss ? When, after all, you live in China/Venezeula etc.

trying to compare the data from 2013.

there seems to just be generally less volume on exchanges. even taking into account the more expensive price, are there just way more exchanges now that are spreading the volume out?

There are no powers that be in bitcoin...

There are some people who want the price to go up, and there are others who want the price to go down, and those that who want the price to go up are winning, at the moment... and some of us benefit from that momentum (and winning)

It's been my go-to since the Finex hack.

Not only does it have the most accurate price averaging over the most exchanges, weighted by volumes while excluding zero-fee exchange volumes, it's also used as the base price reference for most BTC ATMs here.

It represents real-world pricing better than any individual exchange and does so in the most currencies.

"You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,"

All I know is bitcoin experiences great pumps and spectacular dumps. I would be surprised if this was not the case this time.

I can picture all those who held coins from the epic pump of 2013 waiting for ROI. Fingers resting on triggers.

All it takes is for some of the big boys to pull triggers and all hell breaks loose.

Sorry to put a damper on the Holiday joy but we need to be realistic. We are on thin ice.

Hope I'm wrong and bitcoin keeps surging ahead.

Of all the stupid shit that gets posted here, 6 line breaks is what gets you guys fired up. L O Fucking L

If 0.1 = Plankton what are the people with 0.01 or less? Newbies often start by using faucets that pay peanuts. It takes them weeks or months to get 0.01 from them. Are they plankton poo until they get 0.1?

Or things are about to end. IMO the rally will top within 2 days and then crash 40%.

A tear has been shed. I just won a large bet.

THERE IS A GOD. I KNOW IT NOW

guess you could always just keep raising your price and see what happens 

It is known.

seems relative trade volume (stamp, btce) for this rally compared to Nov 2013 is only a fraction.... anyone care to elaborate?

Let's pray everyone that this doesn't become a double top

Where do you guys buy/sell BTC, by the way? I get paid monthly in bitcoin and since Circle shut down BTC sells I have to resort to Coinfloor. It's not bad but still a hassle and you get spanked on withdrawals, of course.

Bitcoin made it to the top 50 on Google Trends....beating out "Cat food"

Giddy up!!








https://www.google.com/trends/

I mined ~130 BTC back in the day. I thought I did well when I sold them near the peak of the 2012 ATH of ~$32.

did you guys still believe chinese price??

they are just faking volume, there no actualy buy or sell,
they just hold bitcoin, the exchange just pump without money

Looking at the charts I was wondering why this rally didn't have one of those little dip things at the beginning. If this is it, price is going to be UUUGGGE

Coinbase 3 hrs ago:
"Sorry folks, due to high demand we're experiencing issues with our servers, there may be a multi-day delay in your bitcoin purchase."

Coinbase now:
"Oh would you look at that, your coins have been successfully delivered to your account. In record time too!"

 

100x leverage shorted this fake pump @1160, too bad got only 10BTC profit because was auto deleveraged @bitmex.

The delusions were sure strong. You know what top is near when this thread goes full retard with the gifs and "Chinese overlords" worship.

nothing funny about that gif, looks like some deaths happened there

Always been confused by this and maybe someone can help.

How will bitcoin get to a high price if it can't do big jumps in price?

Surely slow and steady will take us tens and tens of years.

How can 10k (for example) be even remotely realistic any time soon?

Not trolling, just wondering your thoughts.

 

Of course it's parasitic. All margin trading is.

It's showmen (exchanges) preying on the rubes (traders).

...why... do i not believe you? (quoting Batty from ferm gully, voiced by Robin Williams.)

seriously though - i've been out of the loop for months. has the scaling stuff, bitcoin core v. classic, etc etc, seriously not been solved? Christ in heaven guys.

Indeed. Never invest nor gamble more than you can afford to lose. Borrowing to gamble is just crazy.

A friend who lives near a casino told me about the shocking number of non-publicized suicides that occur regularly in the casino parking lot.

Seems most of them were suckers who lost their shirts, borrowed more from the casino (including mortgaging their homes) and then lost that.

"Honey, I gambled away the house."

This really is not a pleasant place to be at the moment hey.

Real blood on the streets.

Apologies for going off topic, but would a moderator consider that post by ko9Uin as trolling? In the unofficial rules mprep says trolling is "removed less often due to the fact that it's harder to identify".

Sounds as if you do not have a large enough float.. whether that is BTC or cash.

I don't usually conduct the trade on the exchange until after I have already locked in the profitable trade on Local Bitcoins or directly... and that is that I have actually either received the bitcoins from the guy or I have received the fiat from the guy.

To do that, you have to have enough of a float that covers the full amount of bitcoins or fiat that you are trading and usually a bit more because of transfer times and other cushion issues that sometimes can get the money or the BTC in their proper locations and set up for the next trade.... that transferring money around can be a bit of a hassle and sometimes cause additional costs - that tend to be lessened, somewhat with having a decent float (and even then, it may be a bit cumbersome to manage with some unexpected costs, here and there)

Yes, and hoorisheet looks like another ~15% incoming.... biggest 1-month bump in years

Someone knows something

Sentiment here is too negative, we are at the highest prices in bitcoins history and there is more potential to the upside.

Lol, look again. Somebody took a big dump. The filthy chinamen public bank of china doing inside trading with chinese whales? or just random whale panicking? stupid ass whales with shaky fingers can drop massive red candles out of fucking nowhere apprently. That shit was insane. 920 to 900 in seconds fucking hell.

Guys, lets try not to lose money or coins  

Everyone knows

Do you really think bitcoin transcends all form of national govt?

Yea, no.

November 7, 2008: "Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years" - Satoshi

Notice it says "several years" and not decades or "forever" and that was already 8 years ago.

Please, spare me the bullshit.

Bitcoin's value isn't even currently derived from point of sale being a settlement layer and all since it doesn't scale to point of sale use, meaning it's value is entirely derived from how much you can dump it for at an exchange.  So just by shutting down a few exchanges you can already kill the value of bitcoin in current state.

Yea, just like it's "impossible" to stop people from using gold, right?  Sounds "impossible" to do so on paper, right?  Well, they were able to do it, and bitcoin is far easier to stop.

Japan while patriarchal in history [and still showing its roots today] is struggling with an aging population, and very few children. The country's population is literally shrinking because less people are having children and that is causing a problem there.

One would say, that with all the action in markets right now, well have conversation about Bitcoins.

Alas, that is not the case. Instead its the marxist cuckolds against testoterone driven darwinists about the meaning of life.

Welcome to the Bitcointalk forum, folks!

oh, please, just cut it. If they wanted this, they would have done it long time ago.
high price as a threat? To what exactly? Sometimes communists have such idiotic notions.

Why is the quaterly futures lower than weekly and biweekly on okcoin, anybody know?

hoooo someone is getting rid of his stash again... question is: how low will it go

Is it wise to have named this fella in public? He might end up in a shipping container in Poland somewhere listening to the Barney song.

As for the revelation that there is a WOMAN amongst us, I can't quite believe what I'm reading.

Is everyone on this thread living on Mount Athos? You realise they're half the global population, right? There might be one within 5-6 metres of you RIGHT NOW.

I doubt he's going broke anytime soon. If I were the NSA, he would be among the primary actors (along with other vocal proponents) I would pay handsomely to damage bitcoin by forking it - and proving that Bitcoin is unreliable as money, as investment - as anything.

Nobody can fork gold and make your gold coins and coin bars worthless. If bad actors manage this in Bitcoin then that'll be pretty ugly for Bitcoin and I think Satoshi will indeed materialize his warning[1] of coming back and declaring it a failure, due to getting beaten from a social engineering attack vector.

I think this vector needs to be closed down with an automated algorithmic increase of some sort that will eliminate disagreements that can be used for social-engineering a fork.

[1] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010238.html

I don't mean to be a curmudgeon, but when it comes to subject matters like this, 0% is an exaggeration, no?


Maybe you could say .000001% and still make your point?

Says who?  Your dreams where you think bitcoin is going to $10 million each and metals are going to 0? LOL.  It even seems like some US states are going to pass laws where you don't have to pay capital gains on appreciation of metals as long as they're in the form of US currency (gold and silver eagles, buffalos, etc), because they said converting from one form of US currency to another shouldn't be a taxable event - like changing from 1 dollar to 4 quarters.  If bitcoin did not get this same benefit in tax law in the US it would be screwed trying to compete with metals.

Psychological markers like 8888 CNY are out of the race by now. I owuld go for USD beeing the lead currency. Dreams of parity to 1oz are in the dust.

Anyone else starting to feel seasick?? 

I bought my house my wife and kids live in with profit from bitcoin over the years.

Blow me 

I think it is actually even worse than this. The SEC pretty much confirmed that A) the major of bitcoins out there is unknown and already in the hands of people that they can't control, and B) the exchanges and thus the people involved can't be "surveiled" and tracked.

If you look at all that jargon in reverse, what they're basically saying is that ANY SEC-approved, market-traded financial instrument is both a) rigged against the masses, and b) surveiled and controlled.

'Rigged against the masses' meaning that the wealthy elite can't corner the market, not in the beginning, and not ever. 

So how long until the World banks issue a pre-mined Bankcoin, sold/traded on bank owned and controlled exchanges, and the SEC says "yeah we'll approve the Bankcoin ETF, no problem." ?

Fuck that guy... what is his problem? Why is he even commenting on bitcoin after his ridiculous claims of BTC going to $10

Money doesn't fork.

That's not a fork...it's the same thing as shaving.  You can't fork gold and silver you idiots!

Almost feels like bots are trading like that $1350 number was actually real.

It was so real this song began playing right as it happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcXV1Pm77h4

From what I understand, they were trying to corner the silver market using excessive leverage. The banks changed the rules out of the blue regarding margin, eventually forcing a margin call.

So what have we learned? Welp, that's "regulation" for ya folks. And people really wanted this Bitcoin ETF thing to happen?  Pfff. I think Bitcoin would be better off without "regulation".

Here's an economics problem about bitcoin as a store of value I want to see Marcus and Adam even attempt to address.  The post is a reply to a Nick Szabo quote I don't think is correct:

I think some sort of voting system based on BTC holdings is sorely needed for coordinating development.
Buying and selling can only be done after a decision has been made, only brings 1d information (up or down, a little or much) and more importantly is only the net result of many different forces (macroeconomics etc.) so it will generally be hard to say the price is going up because of reason X or Y.

Then tell me how things are controlled, because it is always controlled somehow.

You mean decisions just get made randomly?

Then there is a way things work, thus certain groups exert control. 

Yes, it is voluntary and selfserving.  Indeed there is no central authority.  That does not mean that there aren't any groups that exert some control over the workings of bitcoin though.  The good thing is that the power is divided over many actors, but that doesn't mean that there is no power.  Or would you say that what mining pool operators do doesn't affect you

I am getting away from my initial point though.  The question at hand was not to let a group control bitcoin, it was to find a way to measure the opinion of users/holders  (as a source of information for developers, miners, exchanges,merchants and other users/hodlers).

also, based on the last twenty years, i don't know that i'd complain much about google ruling the world...

So, what happened? I don't see any news of China banning Bitcoin or similar. ~11% drop in 24 hours does seem sharp when there are no news about it.

What makes you think that it is not enough? The price has been rising for weeks and has been correcting itself on the way up. Unless, you sold at the bottom?

---

Look at the other cryptocurrencies market, it has tripled in <10 days. Organic growth?

I have trouble understanding who is still selling? The price is insanely low.

900 EUR barrier broken   Where is this going to end??

losing over 300$ in 3 days? that's what i call a sh*tcoin  

These super big bitcoin owners causing such manipulative crashes should be kicked in their balls. Nasty people...

This question might sound stupid but I have been an investor never a miner .

If the fork would damage the price that much why would the miners go massively to it ? Wouldn't it affect their revenue? Or does people like Vinny Ligham overreact to the effects of an eventual HF?

but this could be like the war on terror. it's gonna be never ending and it can be ramped up whenever it suits people to do so. i really hope some acceptable solution is arrived at or it'll be hanging over bitcoin until people simply embrace something else that isn't so goddamn squabbly.

because fixing bitcoin is like changing wheels on a train while it's still working the express route every day.

if nothing else it's providing truly huge amounts of information for other people to take and run with. maybe someone will scratch build something that addresses the most common gripes in a way that's so logical it's impossible to take any type of position against.

a long shot of course, but i wouldn't underestimate the lessons we're learning every day.

Facts and DT don't come together

Are you retarded?

What is the justification to move up to 2mb?

If there is no justification, besides merely "sounding like a good idea", then there should be no need to presume that 2mb actually resolves anything - besides caving into some whiners and maybe even bringing some disadvantages.
 

Anyhow, we should not be advocating to do things just because it "sounds nice"

This seems like a strawman argument.

Yeah, 'cuz no one has given any reasons anywhere why it's a good idea to keep blocks small.

:/

If there had been a HF three years ago from 1MB to 2MB, we'd already be hitting the 2MB limit and BU supporters would be screaming that we need to immediately HF again to 4MB.  And so on, and so on.

They act like that wouldn't be true, but we all know it would.

So apparently for them, every time the block size limit is reached, the solution is simply another 2MB increase.  On and on, until mining centralization by like one person with a total hardware & hashpower monopoly is complete.

Well FU, BU.

You seem to be proving my point with your lack of engagement, and now movement away from a strawman to a personal attack.. hahahaha.. you gots nothing, but maybe a little aire (straw has aire, too).