Yeah, well tell this to zhangweiwu.  Maybe he can share this with his Chinese bitcoin friends and break them out of their stubborn denial.

According to Dane Cook, he also needs to have:
1.  A secret lab behind a moveable bookshelf, with Bunsen burners and schematics
2.  Paintings with holes where the eyes should be (to spy on guests)
3.  Trap doors that he can operate at will
4.  A moat
 

Says the newb who registered on this forum just days ago? It's YOU who is on ignore.  Also Cpt. Illiterate, it's "the price may have gone up after stagnation..."

You know when the likes of fonzie shows up that the shorts are starting to panic, lol.   

Yes, very true.  I especially like your last 2 sentences.  Although anyone who bought popular IP domain names early on and sold them years later made a killing.

Nobody knows what bitcoin-based companies or exchanges will still be around 10 years from now, but the Bitcoin protocol will live on along with bitcoin the currency.

However, the short-lived tech world history has shown us that a company that makes something technology-related so brain dead simple for the masses to comprehend and easy to use, usually that company has staying power since they managed to grab onto early market share and become a market leader.

Apple made easy-to-use GUI OSes and integrated software/hardware brain dead simple.

Netscape made web browsing brain dead simple.  

Google made internet searching brain dead simple.

Facebook made social networking brain dead simple.

YouTube made online video sharing brain dead simple.

LinkSys made WiFi brain dead simple.

Apple and Google made smartphone and tablet apps brain dead simple.

So who will make bitcoin e-commerce brain dead simple?  Many companies like Coinbase and BitPay are trying.  Perhaps we have yet to see those players that are already good at that kind of thing (Google?  Apple?  Facebook?  Amazon?) enter the bitcoin arena.  My bet is that eventually we will, and that they are already discussing it.

One reply then ignore.

So you are going to compare the CC industry that has had 55+ years to mature, with ever increasing oversight, regulation, and fraud prevention in the multi-billions of dollars per year, with Bitcoin?  A brand new payment system that's only been around for 5 years and little to no industry or worldwide regulation yet?  

Apples and Oranges dude.  A better comparison would be to the U.S. Wildcat frontier banking system during the 1800s.

Agreed.  If tipping each other "bits" starts taking hold on FB like it did on the reddit bitcoin sub, it could spread like wildfire.  FB has ~1.3B active users/month.

Hopefully this will spurn FB to add their own first party integration.

Wrong interpretation of direction, dude..

Nxt never dives after a bubble pop.  It just keeps slowly dwindling down to nothing, keeping the Nxt nutters hopes alive.  It's all a game being played by the (70-ish?) number of founders initially granted all the premined Nxt, just to keep things going.  They sell some for btc or give it away, buy it back to create bubble mania, then slowly sell it off for btc again.  Not only have they made a shit ton of btc (and thus money) with their pump and dumps, but have probably managed to increase their original Nxt holdings astronomically as well, further skewing the overall distribution.

And yet China rallies. 

Yep, everyone was waiting for the next round of China FUD to rear it's head again! Yay China FUD!

Currently in the bitcoin market, it doesn't take much money for the whales to 'paint' whatever pattern they want you to see. 

Bitcoin does! FB has around 1.3B (yes, that's billion) active users per month.

Whales are desperately trying to 'paint' a head and shoulders pattern they started on May 30th.

Don't let them win!  Don't give in, hodl!  

Like I said, look at the fake head-and-shoulders pattern that these whale(s) have been trying to paint on the tape since May 30th.  Now they're trying to paint the right shoulder and get it to roll over and fall off.  They want all the n00b TA traders to see that, and be like "It's the right shoulder forming!! See ?!?! SELL! SELL! SELL!"

Where is our begh...

Obvious Bitstamp price suppression is obvious. 

But they can't keep a lid on a boiling pot forever.

Me, I just bought a bunch of new coins this morning.   

No, me + the 1.3M other account holders on CB.   Imagine what would happen if they all just wanted to buy 1 coin today.  

Saw this other explanation of their business model on reddit:

"To explain what they mean by this note you would have to understand their basic business model. In exchange for a 1% margin, Coinbase offers short term loans of USD so that you can buy at the market price today using money that is still in your bank account. To do that Coinbase has to have money in place at an exchange, or close enough to an exchange that the exchange will let them trade with it. When bitcoin is more or less flat, there is very little cash movement, instead some buyers put money in, and some sellers take money out. But during a surge, a lot of money has to move through Coinbase and into an exchange, and the rate at which that can be done is limited by how much cash Coinbase has on hand, how long cash has to sit between transfers, and how long the ACH and international wire transfers take to complete. Divide cash on hand by the total delay time, and you get an approximation of their expenditure limits per day."

So if I'm interpreting this correctly, CB's purchasing of coins is limited by the speed of ACH transfers of new USD to the exchanges.  So what happens 3 business days from now, when their flood of new $ from today's Expedia news finally hits the exchanges?

fonzie, you do realize that when sub forum members see you and the other trolls show up and start posting like madmen, that it is actually a bullish signal?  

If you are so convinced of price dropping, then why the need to even come here and troll?  Oh wait...

All a bunch of FUD orchestrated by whales trying to shake out weak hands on Stamp and BTC-e, before an end of week rally.

Good luck to all you weak sellers if you fall for this crap.

Lulz at all da bears trying their darnedest to "engineer" a fake down trend.  It's so cute.  

Ah, the tards at Stamp want 600 so bad, sooo bad!  But...they...can't...quite...get...the...shoulder...to...rolloff. Ugh, working soo hard now.

Tick tock, tick tock.  They better hurry before they run out of coins to sell, as fresh fiat is rushing to the exchange as we speak.  

Yeah, I guess an award winning exchange is just not worth the time, lol

http://www.coindesk.com/bitstamp-wins-best-virtual-currency-startup-award-europas/

So you're quite serious to think that (insider) trading whales couldn't possibly have (insider) advanced knowledge that the Silk Road coins were to hit an FBI auction the end of this month?  That there's no way that they might have been tipped off days ago that the news article was going to hit the web on Forbes?

Yes he his just some dude, a young headstrong kid who just happens to be a core bitcoin developer.  So what?  There are a lot of bitcoin developers out there.  He has his opinions just like everyone else, but his opinions are just that... his.  Personally I'll take Gavin's opinions on the matter over Peter's any day.

And staging some lame "boycott" by selling a large portion of your holdings is pretty silly.

So what's the answer then?  Since you nor I, nor anyone else here is involved in core bitcoin development, should we all take Peter's eloquent advice and just sell everything until "something is done about this foul injustice that hasn't been solved in 4 years?"  Yeah that's it, tell everyone to sell everything so bitcoin is back at $0.  That'll solve the problem.  

What an immature imbecile that kid is.  It's like throwing a public temper tantrum..."No one will listen to me, waaaaaa!"

I just put up a sell wall of 3.7BTC on Stamp.  Prepare for <$300 bitches!!

Do I see a double bottom forming? 

Bitcoin is such an awesome investment, it's now the same price it was around 8 months ago.  Yay!  

/s

I disagree, there wasn't a reason to go down.  The market was actually feeling bullish, the Expedia news just came out and other positive announcements were expected.  People were buying, holding, and waiting for the next leg up.  Coinbase actually ran out of coins the day the Expedia news came out (2 days ago).

This flash crash was completely engineered by the FUDsters, and now we've witnessed just how many weak hands there were.  No support at all between $650 - $550, and I don't think we found it yet.

Yeah, I guess the completely rational mass selloff of over the GHash.IO crap and FBI coin auction crap makes perfectly rational sense.  

If you are referring to the psychological effect a prolonged bear market has on the populous, I agree with you.  By this point, all trust that these mini rallies are real (i.e., not manufactured by whale traders) have been beaten out of most all but the diehard bulls.  That's why recovery back into a true bull market takes so long.  Most average Joes are now believing that the whales are just buying and trying to lure the sheep back in, only to spread mass FUD and drop the price at a later point.  Again. Only to sell back to themselves once more.  No appearance of true increasing adoption appears real to anyone right now.

Wake me up when we get back to $683.

I think the tag line should be:

"Consistency.  Stability.  Impervious to FUD."

 

As much as I'd like to see a rally in 2014, I'm secretly hoping for one in early 2015 instead.  Reason being, a) I plan to sell some and for tax purposes would like that to happen after Jan 1st 2015 so I don't have to report any gains until 2016, and b) because I think the rally will go much higher the longer it holds off.

It's a Rube Goldberg machine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine

If you're looking at Huobi on bitcoinwisdom, it's been stuck like that for a full 8 hours now.  Something's broken.

FTFY

I like how Stamp refuses to follow Huobi when it's trying to push up, but will gladly follow Huobi when it's going down.

Fkn bullshit manipulated market.

Yeah, watch how Huobi tries to go up but Stamp refuses to budge.

My theories:

1.  Huobi volume really is fake, and Stamp knows it.  Thus refuses to follow such a small percentage of the market in the up direction.
2.  Stamp is deliberately holding down the market, fake sell walls, etc.  Probably on purpose until the SR coins are sold.

My money is more on #2, because Stamp seems to have no problem following Huobi in the down direction.
_{(Although I'm still not convinced Huobi's volume is 100% accurate)}

This is amazing, Stamp never veering from $599.99 for days.  Nope, no manipulation involved at all.  Nope, pure free market, makes perfect sense it should stay that price.

 

Like I said, Stamp refuses to follow Huobi in the up direction, but seems to have no problem following them down.  

Fkn bullshit market.  I'm sure Stamp will be right back to $599.999999 soon.

Lol

Yep, the day the Expedia news came out, the price was at $630.  Price didn't budge at all.  Then the very next day, wham!  A fkn FUD storm about threats of 51% attack (again, every 4-6 months, for years now... ad nauseum), +Stamp FUD, + China FUD, +Bitfinex FUD, all on the same day.  And then a bunch of panic selling ensues all the way down to $530, for no good reason at all.  And you know what?  No one even remembers that now, or if those stupid fears were even warranted.  Here's a hint:  they weren't.

The bitcoin community is, and will continue to be, pathetic, until it puts on its big boy pants and grows the hell up.  Stop panic selling over nothing.  Otherwise, the bitcoin world hasn't even seen yet what the governments of the world can cook up in regard to media-created FUD, until they feel the need to.

Yes, but don't you realize that extending IOUs is exactly how the current, broken fractional reserve banking system works?  And is pretty much why Mt Gox. went bankrupt?

I love how only the bear traders on this forum love to defend panic selling, as if it is the most wonderful thing evar.  Sorry bear traders, not enough price crashes going on for you to make your $100 for the week?

I guess it's too much to ask for bitcoin owners to have some sense, huh?  Maybe 3-5 years from now, we can have the same +/- 20% swings even when the price is at $50K/btc?  Actually I wouldn't doubt we will, as fabricated FUD will work just as well on the market sheep participants then as it does now.  Yeah that'd be so wonderful.  That way it'd scare away pretty much everyone who tries to seriously use it as a stable currency or a store of value, and the grand experiment would at that point be proven to be a complete failure.

No, it's a good time to panic sell!  PANIC SELL ALL DE COINS NAOW!

Also, notice how the whales managed to 'unlight' the green candle on the 1W MACD on Stamp.  Nope, no manipulation going on here.  Not a bit.

Here's the really stupid thing.  The SR auction is about BITCOINS, and bitcoins only.  Yet altcoins like Litecoin and other alts are being forced down by the whales too, causing people to panic for their beloved alts as well.  Even Dogecoin is being sold off, which has absolutely nothing to do with the SR auction.

This is why I referred to the community as pathetic.  My choice of adjective remains, until I observe otherwise.  I guess I'll be waiting a decade or more.  

You mean that there was bad news that just happens to coincide with other bad news on the exact same day?  That's so strange, but yet so perfectly natural!  Fabricated FUD never follows that pattern. /s

I see fake sell walls everywhere.  Now all we need is some strong buying to blow them away.

Notice that no one has even tried to give answers to your direct questions, except "blah blah blah thinly traded market blah blah blah market forces blah blah blah waiting on auction results blah blah blah."  It's because no one really has a fkn clue what is going on, and they just need some event horizon to point to and say definitively "That there is the reason that this market is confused!  I'm right, and everyone else is wrong!"

Here's a more plausible explanation of the past several weeks:

This silly immature Bitcoin market is still 80-90% dominated by pimply-faced teenagers and know-it-all nerdy 20-somethings, and all the teenagers/20-somethings went on summer break and forgot all about bitcoin.  They stopped buying bitcoins, and only really care about buying more bitcoins when bitcoin is going up. If it's not going up or rallying, they really don't care to have their money locked up in anything.  They also sold their bitcoins because a) bitcoin price is not doing anything right now, b) they can't day trade not enough volatility, and c) because they need their $100 for summer vacation to go party with.  So the few whales left in the summer market are taking full advantage of the lack of buyers, and selling the market down lower.  These whales will use any FUD they can drum up (including this stupid SR auction, the latest stupid FUD) to drive the price lower, and without the teenagers/20-somethings buying more coins during the summer months, the price will fall lower.  Nothing will change until fall, when the teenagers/20-somethings come back from summer break and start buying bitcoins again.

Now do I really believe everything I just wrote?  Maybe. Partially. Not totally.
But is it just as plausible an explanation as any of the other 1000 made up explanations for the market confusion presented on this sub forum?  Without a doubt, yes.

And that there is the whole point: no one has a clue, and everyone is just talking out of their ass.

 

His point was, no one is buying up bitcoins like crazy because of this rumor.  Hell, no one is buying up bitcoins like crazy over any good news right now, and they haven't been for months.  So no, he's not delusional.

“We’re the backbone of the entire Bitcoin industry,” says Kodrič, 25, who’s wearing a black t-shirt with “Zero Excuses” in fluorescent green capital letters. “The wallet services, ATM machines, mining companies all rely on us. The price of Bitcoin is the de facto price on Bitstamp. We’re the to-go exchange.”

Oh, the hubris!  Can't wait for solid U.S.-based exchanges to knock 'em down a notch or two.

Good that they're visible though, makes it easier to find them.   

Can someone on this subforum answer this one simple question, instead of completely ignoring it:

Q: In a closed door auction, where no one outside of it will know what the selling price was, how can Bitstamp, you, or anyone else know what the winning price was?

And don't just reply "The selling price will get leaked out" or some silly crap, as we know hearsay FUD is completely unreliable.

<quick, run away and avoid answering this question.  Again.>  

Quoted for truth.  Yeah, I'm starting to seriously dislike the "Speculation" subforum because the participants want to completely ignore reality in favor of some made up fantasy.

I'll probably be leaving it behind sometime soon, as it's usefulness has almost completely run it's course for me.


Edit:  Oh, and I wasn't referring to you Blitz.  I meant others on this sub that just want to flat out ignore that question, because it suits them to completely just ignore it and continue the silly debate ad nauseum.

Instead of posting that, and since you are a TA guru, why don't you give us a rundown of his TA indicators and tell us why he's wrong? 

Or are you really a bear troll in disguise?   

I've noticed a trend on this subforum.  

In an uptrend, if the price is going down, the bears are nowhere to be found on this sub.  But when the price starts to go up (mysteriously), the bears swoosh in with their charts and bullshit TA and try to tell you why it's all a mirage and we're going to be going down again soon.

 

Guys, what, WHAT WHAT WHAT do you think is going to be announced exactly on Monday?  Hmmm?

If you say, "what the selling price was", I'm going to reach through this computer screen and stab you in the jaw with a fork.

Point me to the link where that has been officially said, please.

Supposition and ass talk

THANK YOU FOR REITERATING THE TRUTH!!!!  THIS FORUM HAS GONE INSANE

Stamp 1W MACD just flipped back to green.

10 second old news is old.  Gimme a new piece of FUD on the horizon!  We need a new (inconsequential) date out there for people to fret and worry about!  

C'mon China, where's a new ban deadline when you need one??

Ok, let's say someone bids $550 right now.  Are they below market or above market?  There is no CLOSE OF THE MARKET DAY in bitcoin like there is in stocks.  What if price falls to $520 by 5:59pm ET today?  Or shoots up to $630 by 1AM ET Saturday morning?  Then back down to $520 by Monday afternoon?

I think ShroomsKit's point is pretty clear, and your's isn't.  Who's the idiot now?

I'll probably be a little grumpy until I see the BTC price back around ~$660-680, where it was before the absolutely stupid FUD circus kicked in nearly a month ago.  It seems the ongoing stupidity continues to drown out all of the exciting good news happening in the Bitcoin space right now, and that is a real downer.  

BTC is grossly undervalued right now, and most people don't even realize it.  When you have super high net worth professional investors clamoring over each other to buy large amounts of BTC in a U.S. sponsored auction for $$ millions, that only underscores just how undervalued it is.

Hell I'm a perma-bull, and even I don't think this.  Even if the coins are sold for a premium above market (whatever that means), and it leaks out to the public (never gonna happen), I wouldn't expect a huge rally or anything.  In fact, I'd place my bets on some really stupid fake FUD leak coming out on Monday saying that the coins sold for $200 a piece or some shit.  Prompting yet again another mass panic sell off for no reason at all.  Either that, or maybe next week comes and goes without anything major happening.

You see, bubbles are actually created (ie., fabricated) by whales who wait for the perfect market conditions to happen + advanced insider knowledge of some major announcements coming down the pipe.  Then they start slowly pre-seeding the market with mega dollars to begin the rally.  The bubble then feeds on itself, and is catapulted higher with mega media attention + the reveal of the major good news announcements near the middle.  This is all planned ahead of time, months in advance.  This happens in the stock market as well.

So I just don't see the next 2 weeks as that perfect storm.  Perhaps we are still 6-8 weeks away.  Or perhaps, not even until next year sometime.  I still see a slow steady rise in price regardless of what happens this year.

Edit: Oh you were being sarcastic.  Got it.

Well, I can't even fathom what those silly people are wanting or expecting to hear.  Auction buyers who paid $800-1000/btc?  $5000/btc?  These types of HNW professional investors are going to hold on to these coins for a VERY long time, regardless if they paid over or under so-called "market" value.  So wtf does it really matter what they paid for them?

The Winklevoss Twins own 1000's of coins, and I believe paid ~$100-ish/btc.  They have yet to sell a single, SINGLE, coin yet.  And from what I hear, don't plan to any time soon.

So why would these auction buyers be any different than the Winklevii?

You don't pay taxes on coins you haven't sold.

Yeah sure, when they sell a few in 2018.  Or maybe never.

Wow, went away for a few hours and come back to find this thread has turned into a glorified BTC-e trollbox.

Well fellas, I amn't participating in this stupid debacle of a thread about the SR auction any longer.  I'm done. If you guys want to believe any FUD about the auction that supposedly comes out, go right ahead.  It won't be true, but whatever.

We are right back to a completely manipulated $599.99 wall holding pattern, just like where we were from June 20-23.  This whole rise smells of pure whale crud.

If we don't solidly break $600 within the next 12 hours, I predict we are definitely going back down.

Quoting myself. 

A good thing?  It never occurred to you that one whale, the same whale, can have multiple accounts on multiple exchanges (even those in China), allowing him to play multiple sides of the market simultaneously and do arbitrage?  And effectively being able to play whack-a-mole on multiple exchanges at the same time?

But I'm sure all of this bogus manipulation is somehow a "good thing".    

What's even worse is this:  The exchange operators/reps of OKCoin, Huobi, and BTCC couldn't have gotten together like 4-5 months ago and presented an official, detailed joint explanation of this VERY SAME INFORMATION, HELPING TO COMBAT ALL THE FUD AND NEGATIVITY?  WTF, REALLY? We needed to wait 4-5 fkn months after all the bullshit to die down for this to be officially said and presented to the community?

Oh wait, but if that had happened there wouldn't have been any opportunity for China FUD, ambiguity, and chaos during all those months, and people wouldn't have panic sold, and their rich friends wouldn't have been able to use insider info to get richer, and...

Point me to the official statement link please, or stop making stuff up.

I'm not talking about announcing changes to the deposit methods.  I'm talking about the fact that the Chinese exchange operators could have gotten together 4-5 months ago, had a meeting, and then published an official joint statement saying something to the effect of, "China has not banned bitcoin, and will never ban bitcoin.  Whatever you read, whatever you hear, it is not banned and will never be banned.  Do not believe any supposed China news FUD that you read that claims otherwise.  Also do not believe any Chinese FUD related to our eventual exchanges demise.  Our Chinese exchanges are not only legal, but we will never shut down.  We will continue to work around the deposit issues with the PBOC.  Do not believe the FUD!  Also, OKCoin's volume is skewed based on 0% fees and HFT only, but it's not fake per se.  But yes, it is a little misleading for sure."  They could have offically published this in English for the Westerners, and on official sites like Coindesk.

But they didn't do that, now did they?  No official joint statement at all to help reassure the public and quell fears.  Hell, the individual Chinese exchange operators barely even spoke (except for Bobby Lee) during that time.  Their PR was just as bad, if not worse, than Mark Karpeles.  It was as if they WANTED the continued ambiguity to fuel the ongoing FUD panic selling.  And that's exactly what it did.

I do agree with you on this point.  Very much so.

You get the prize.  The whale held the price down, the whale removed his fake walls and then the whale bots simply kicked in and auto-bought.  Hoping to spark an uptrend.  Now the same whales bots are selling back down due to lack of buying pressure (ie., REAL market buyers).  

I'm convinced now that for the time being, this market is still in a lull.  I'm not seeing any real buyers back in this market yet, just whale bots buying/selling to themselves.  The lack of volume and real demand is telling.

Another "btw".  

Btw, not that I'm a huge altcoin lover or anything, but to anyone who thinks Litecoin is sold off, completely dead, and will never rise exponentially from here.  Well Litecoin just jumped 5% too.  For such a dead coin, so strange right?  Right?

So yeah, it's still relatively pegged to BTC, although the LTC market is always lagging the BTC market.  So don't be shocked if it also goes to the moon during/just after the next BTC bubble.

I hope you are right, and I'm also in the camp that's not selling (buy and hold).  But I won't be convinced that real support is growing along with the buying until I see what happens during the next FUD shit storm (you know it's always right around the corner).  If support holds at say $580 or higher, then I'll agree that the market is getting more resistant to panic selling.  If we ever go back to $540 then it was all a mirage.

Then you want to explain me why shit like this is coming out now?  They couldn't have been bothered to do this AMA like, say 4 months ago?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29gwk8/we_are_okcoin_auaask_us_anything/

Kinda feel the same way, this don't look real to me.  But hell, 7 solid months of a skittish, panicky bear market can begin to make even the most diehard bull feel pessimistic.  So what do I know.  

No way, that tweet would imply that the blocks went for WAY above market.  And the thousands of idiot bitcoiners posting here in the last week say that's impossible.  

WTF is happening on Stamp.

Mine lasted about a year, but I had to jam the bike hard really back into the launcher while I cranked it.  Otherwise I'd super rev it only for it to launch about 4 inches and then fall over.

Wouldn't it make sense though, if the auction losers are buying their coins directly on/from Stamp?

Agreed, a real bull trap would be a retest of $600.  Throw in some major FUD and we're there.

So far China has been like "Meh".

Two years ago I custom built a small media center computer with parts I sourced completely from NewEgg.  They had great selection and prices compared to my local computer stores.

Just to add to the Facebook discussion, FB has around 1.3B (yes, that's Billion) active users per month.  Many are teens and adolescents, but remember that these teens and adolescents grow up and become adults, get jobs, have/make money, etc.  And their parents and grandparents are on FB now, as well as their friends and co-workers.  Now just imagine seamless bitcoin integration with all that, when sending someone bitcoin is as simple as 1-2 clicks in their FB smartphone or tablet app.  And tipping someone btc in Bits instead of just a "Like" (or maybe integrated with the Like function).

Also, Merchants are already using the Facebook platform to advertise/market to their consumers.  This is where FB makes their billions in revenue.  The next logical step is shopping cart and payment integration.

This could be game changing.

Looks like someone fat fingered something.  Or is just stupid.

Looking like a clever LTC bear trap to me.

You're timing could be bad, we might break $650 today.

To make $400 daily on a price swing of $10/btc per day, you'd have to be playing with what, like 40 btc on the market?  If you true, you are really brave.  I couldn't risk trading that much.

I love how bitcoiners want to spend hours and hours analyzing this auction and the buyer, when there's 1000% chance that Tim Draper will do absolutely nothing but sit on these 30K coins for the next 6-12 months while he further invests to build out the third world exchange infrastructure.  

Yes exactly.  I guess everyone else that still wants to debate the stupid "dumping" scenario is just trapped in that movie Idiocracy.

Check out the Stamp 1W MACD.  CCMF!  I wish the Stamp 1W MACD looked like Bitfinex.   

You mean like everyone on this sub forum?  

Was there ever any doubt amongst those (apparently a dozen or so) of us that have brains?

I literally can't wait until the bitcoin market (currently ruled by immature, panicky 20-somethings) is completely taken over by more mature, older HNW professionals that know what the hell they are doing.

"We'll take it from here, boys."

Nope, don't even try debating with Oda directly on bitcoin's long term potential.  Not worth the breath.  I'll stop short of calling Oda an outright troll, but shortsighted permabear is adaquate enough of a label.  People who only can calculate to or conceive of the bitcoin market's next hour, or tomorrow at best, will never be able to conceive of what the world of Bitcoin would look like 5 years from now, 10, or even 20.  And day traders could care less anyway, all they care about is how to make their next $100 on a swing.

I have gone back and extensively read forum threads from 2-3 years ago, with bears screaming that bitcoin wouldn't make it to $200/btc even in 10 years, and anyone that disagreed with them was an absolute fool. An utterly pathetic lack of vision from the bear camp, and it will always be that way.  Also, just try calling them out on it years later... they have vanished from the scene by then.  Wonder why?

Yes Oda, you're right, please enlighten all of us of where you think the Bitcoin world will be at the 5 and 10 year mark from today.  Or is that too hard for you??  Because I haven't heard you enlighten us with your infinite wisdom on that topic yet?  All I hear you do is whine about the bulls.

I'll tell ya what, I'll make it even easier for you.  Tell us where you think that Bitcoin will be in 2016?  I assume still at your supposed $2000 "fair value" level?

Or do you and Blitz just think we're all cultists?

(And btw Blitz, if you think we're all just a bunch cultists, then WTF are you doing here as a Moderator on a Bitcoin forum?  Hypocrit much?)

THIS +1M.  Not to mention, LocalBitcoins type of face-to-face money or barter/value exchange will be around in some form or another in the grey/black market forever.
/debate  

Jesus H, why hasn't anyone kicked this loser Brock Pierce off of the Bitcoin Foundation yet?  Hasn't he caused enough controversy yet?

Also, how do you have a Realcoin backed to every dollar when there are $65 billion of them (dollars, that is) printed fresh every month?  Are they going to 'print' 65 billion Realcoins every month too?  

Stupidest. Crypto. Idea. Evar.

That in bold above

Honestly if you don't see how it will rise, you haven't really researched the last 2 bubbles.  Whale investors suddenly appeared out of nowhere, and started seeding the market by buying up large amounts of btc.  High volume suddenly appeared in the market for no real reason.  With the sudden and pronounced price rise, then all the Joe Public fence sitters and panic buyers jumped in.  Then the media followed.  Then more panic buying. It's really that simple.  Then in hindsight, the media and the community wanted to come up with valid reasons for the bubbles (Oh it was Cyprus, Oh it was China, etc.).  After the bubble declined, these whale market makers completely left the scene.  I haven't seen evidence of them back in the market yet.

So the more interesting question to ask is, "What in the market conditions will make the whale investors think the time is right to suddenly appear out of nowhere, and start seeding the market again?"  My theory is that they simply look for a few key indicators that the market has reversed (like 1W MACD, etc.), extrapolate the growth of bitcoin awareness factor from the last bubble (by looking at bitcoinpulse metrics, etc.), and have some insider trading knowledge on major events that are coming up.  Then they use a combination of all this information to help 'engineer' a bubble.

Same here, absolutely love my 2006 Jetta GLI.  Still only has 92K miles.  Would buy another VW in a heartbeat.

It's still the summer time, all the drones are still spending money on vacations, clubbing, gin n' tonics, and home beautification projects like landscaping.  

Wheee!  I'm a consumer, and I can spend money today!  Wheeee!  Look at me go!  I'll be no better off in 20 years, but I don't care!  Wheee!  Investing, what's investing??
 

Whale Investors: "Sell in May and go away."

They won't come back until the Fall.

Fiat.  They don't really want to have to micro-manage their investments during their summer months, and have to pay the tax man.  Also, it would not surprise me if some of them took profits in April-May, and invested them into something else in the meantime to keep the return going.

But investors always return in the Fall.  They need to get their ROI pump in once more before the year end.  Watch the stock market, you'll see these same Spring-Fall patterns played out over and over again.

Sounds like the hacker stole 5 Million Nxt as well.  Ouch, glad I'm not into Nxt.

Yep.  I remember back not long ago when we were above $700.  Now that seems like eons ago... and so out of reach atm.

Yeah, but look at that massive sell wall @630 on BTC-e.  Could be fake though.

Maybe he can gather the sand, bag it, and sell it to the rest of the world.  In the U.S. we buy bottles of water and bags of dirt, so it should be a hit.

Agreed. 

If someone had told me back at the end of Nov 2013 that we'd still be ~$600 in July of 2014, I'd have told them they were nuts.  <sigh>

When ppl like this start buying, you won't have to sell b/c bitcoin will be everywhere.  That guy will cave, buy and use btc just to not look dumb anymore.

If true, then oh crap.  DanV is notorious for calling it wrong, lol.

If you consider a bag held @ $623 then dude, you don't know what true bag holding is.

There is a unintentional irony to this statement.  Tell NewEgg not to sell a single bitcoin for fiat, lol.

Yep.  And he also just follows the crowd of other wannabe TA newbs.  I can't WAIT for the short squeeze.  

Yes, but Cameron re-tweeted it about an hour ago.  I wouldn't think that he would do this if the COIN ETF was still in limbo with low chance of approval.  Would make him look stupid.

I agree, and I really think the slow to a crawl during the summer months just proves and underlines the fact that the Bitcoin market is still RULED by:

1.  Adolescents that only want to speculate during off-summer periods.  During summer it's all vacations, beers, chasing skirt, and happy fun time.  I bet if we did an honest poll, we'd find that > 90% of all bitcoin holders are under the age of 25.  Also points the the overall maturity level of the existing market (no offense to anyone here).

2.  Whales that only want to speculate during off-summer periods.  "Sell in May and go away."  And without major news on the near term horizon, they know they won't get the run up that they need to make serious money.  We need to keep in mind, that these guys get their insider info way ahead of the rest of the market, often months in advance.

Despite all the seemingly BIG news in the bitcoin investor media, this market is still extremely small.  Ridiculously so.  I mean c'mon, realistically we're still at what, maybe ~1M bitcoin holders worldwide at best?  That's both the good news and the bad news, all rolled into one.  

Actually reverse pyramid is not even accurate.  Unless Gold for thousands of years is also considered a reverse pyramid.  Or BRK-A stock for the last 30 years.

China is liking this news a bit too much, lol.

I'm shocked at just how few bought coins can move the market up $20 in an instant.  This is a really thinly traded market right now.

Shorts gonna get squeezed, fence sitters starting to sweat. 

Ah oh.  When the reality of this really starts to sink in, this is going to be very bad for Russia.  There will be a LOT of pressure.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/politics/malaysia-plane-ukraine-repercussions/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

Seriously, why does China seem to love positive US bitcoin news better than the US?  

Calm before the storm^TM

Next few [hours/days/weeks] are critical^TM

Soon^TM

 

Yes they do.

You wouldn't.  But you wouldn't know that with any other piece of land on Earth either.  On Earth things like earthquakes, floods, and fires happen, rendering a once valuable piece of land worthless overnight.  Market value is only what people are willing to pay, not what some ledger says.

If you want to debate properly, you need to stop making silly troll remarks.

And from what I understand you don't even own any bitcoin.  So tell me why you are here again, day in and day out, enlightening us with your trolldom?

=1 

An amount that he can't afford or something, or he wouldn't be here trolling all the time with inane arguments.

Bear trap.

Wherever this lands, I'm gonna buy this dip. 

Honestly, I'm not seeing what's so positive about this dump other than it didn't drop much.  We were in a small pennant that started rising since 6/30 @ $589.  And we broke down to $590, instead of up.  On zero FUD in the news this time.  We have yet to even reach the $683 high back on 6/1.

The good news is that it seems like a random dump, probably a troll trader trying to capitalize on the fictional 7/24 moon date that everyone just made up in their heads.  I guess the next time it's more serious we'll see if the $580 support holds, as well as the recent double bottom at $555.

No, now he's going on Litecointalk and posting doom about LTC, all the while promoting DRK.  Jesus dude, switch horses much?  This is how you kill personal credibility on forums.

That is how I interpreted your comments on Litecointalk, that you don't care about BTC or LTC anymore, that you'll just jump on the next altcoin/shitcoin bandwagon to try and make money on pump and dumps.  Here's EXACTLY what you said:

My reaction every morning for the past 6 weeks after seeing the price

Much lulz at the control freaks on this thread, that can't control the btc price, so they try to control this thread's pagecount instead.

Feeling better?

What's really stupid is anyone selling since after the 430's, period.  The market has been in an uptrend ever since.  You should only be buying the dips, holding, and buying more.

Whoever has just been accumulating since then (ahem!) is going to make a killing in the long run.  The rest will, well, just make their $800 profit or whatever.

My reaction every morning for the past 6 8 weeks after seeing the price

FTFY

Don't think so, just the extreme impatience of those that thought that July was somehow going to be the magical month.

1W MACD on Stamp is now red for the first time in weeks.

Wikipedia now accepts bitcoin:

http://www.coindesk.com/wikipedia-now-accepts-bitcoin-donations/

Get ready for dump.

It's clearly the Wikipedia news, as good news makes the market go down.

Yay manipulators, sell it down on all exchanges to < $200! Go for it! Completely destroy the bitcoin market entirely so no one comes back to crypto for years and years!  Great job!

Funny how you always show up suddenly when the word "manipulator" get posted.  

And for the record, I do believe that manipulators are responsible for bubbles too.

Someone is painting the tape. Obvious inverse head-and-shoulders pattern is obvious.  

Looks great, could be real recovery. But be careful, could be a bull trap.

THIS +1000

Do you guys really write this stuff with a straight face anymore?

Traders sold it down to $555 last night, and then pushed it back up to $590.  They are going to want their $35 profit soon^TM.

Honestly if bitcoin is not ~$5K by mid 2015 or by the end of 2015 at the latest, then it's exponential growth rate would have slowed substantially.  All current trend line charts would be completely broken.  Everyone investing in bitcoin would have to completely rethink their investment targets.

Oooh, wow, look at that amazing volume that everyone was talking about that was just going to blast us through 600 and up to the moon! 

Just. So. Amazing.  /S   

Sure thing.  So January then?

I know, we might even hit 610!  Shudder to think!

_{(Sorry, still permabull here, but my skepticism and sarcasm meter is at an ATH right now.  Not gonna care until we are solidly back over 680)}

When we hit >700, even I'll be posting train photos and shouting "CCMF!!".  Lol.

Stable for what, like one whole hour?  A little premature doncha think?

No, it'll actually drop sharply at first because whale traders like to quickly flash crash the market, in order to buy up cheap coins before the good news makes the media rounds and the actual public buying starts.  In the next few days that follow, good news spreads quickly, more people buy, and the price naturally goes back up.  Then the whales slowly sell it back down, reaping their 10% profits along the way back down to where it was before the good news was announced.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

I'm surprised that others have not recognized this obvious pattern, as it has played out over and over and over again over the past 3 months.  Good news announcements have always been accompanied by an immediate sharp sell off.  The price rises, then slowly back down again.

Relax, unless this is the "big one" (which I highly doubt), it'll be back down below $580 within 12 hours.

Good idea.  I actually can't wait for the day when bitcoin is available for payment on both Amazon and EBay.  Both of those sites constitute about 90% of my online purchasing, and I would buy back most if not all the bitcoin I would use on those sites.  Hopefully PayPal will just buy Coinbase outright some day, and integrate directly with PayPal, problem solved.

Tradingview's supposed TAs are full of shit.  Whenever the market doesn't do what they expect (which is 95% of the time), and/or just goes sideways, they draw new arbitrary lines and graphs and come up with a new string of predictions.  The truth is that none of them know what the fk is going on or what the market will do.

On a related note, go have a look at reddit/r/BitcoinMarkets lately.  3 months ago, it was chock full or bullish or bearish TA's who just KNEW exactly what was coming next in the bitcoin market based on their magical TA.  Now that the market has just gone sideways and befuddled all of them for the past couple of months, BitcoinMarkets is now a complete ghost town.  You can almost hear the tumbleweeds rolling by.  All the Traders/TAs just lost interest and left (because the market continuously proved them wrong).

The correlation lately of the bitcoin market with the U.S. stock market has been a little concerning.

People have been saying this for 2.5 months now.  If I had a nickel...

Finally, someone with a prediction that will have some accuracy to it.  

I predict that in 2 weeks, bitcoin will not have crashed to $0.  Or $400 for that matter.

So let me get this straight, you're gonna short after a break to the downside? If so, you have mad traderz skillz bro!  

Then by that (your) definition, so is the stock market.  And the PM market.

Nope, no discussion of stock markets or PM markets (or bitcoin market) on this page.  At all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

Please don't insult my intelligence.  I could debate this with you all day long, but I'm not going to because I don't want to junk up this thread with such nonsense.  If stock markets or PM markets or bitcoin markets were considered pyramid schemes, they would be listed as examples on that wiki definition page.  And they are not.

FTFY 

Ok, I like the occasional meme gif every once in a while, but now it's starting to get ridiculous.   

How old are we again?

Yeah, but that was last winter.  Price support should be a LOT higher than that 8 months later.  If it truly isn't, then all exponential trend patterns are badly broken.

So you really really want bitcoin to take 5 years to get back to $1000?  Really??

Actually, why don't you wait to buy at 550 when it hits 560?

Or wait for 540 when it hits 550?

Or wait for 530 when it hits 540?

Or?  Or?  Or?.... or never buy any ever?

Don't worry, if the whales can't induce panic selling with their dump, they'll just panic buy back their OWN coins.    And then back to ~$580-ish we go.

It's because these guys want to get rich off of bitcoin, not just make a lot of money.  But they are too impatient for their 3-5 BTC to make it all the way to $100K/ each.  So they figure that, hey, if it stagnates for a couple years, it will give them time to reach the 50-100 BTC they think they need to retire wealthy.

Stupid logic, things don't work that way.  Bitcoin doesn't just stagnate for years (while you accumulate), then jump 1000X overnight when you decide that you are ready for it to happen.  That wouldn't be exponential growth.  At all.

EDIT: See kireinaha's post below, he just proved my point.

Then your friends at school are complete idiots, because they can buy any amount of bitcoin they can afford.  They can buy $580, $58, $5.80, hell they can buy $0.58 or $0.001 cents worth.  It's all the same, it's all bitcoin.  Owning "whole coins" is illusory, it doesn't exist, it doesn't even matter.  Even the idea of a single "bitcoin" is simply a meaningless abstraction.

A bitcoin is simply an abstract unit of measure, with relative value that changes over time. Like the ounce is in the gold and silver world.  No one goes around saying "Hey, I own X number WHOLE ounces of gold!!"  No, they say "I own $6000 worth of gold."

Yes, but then idiots will never learn.  I would have loved to have bought Apple when it was @ $20/share, or even $4/share, but those times are long gone.  But it doesn't make Apple a bad investment today.  Should I say it's not fair that those (smart) people bought Apple at $4/share back then?

It's the smart people, the people in the know, that know that bitcoin is only going to get bigger.  Much bigger.  When bitcoin hits $10K/btc, please remind your idiot friends and your teacher that if they had bought $300 worth of bitcoin at today's price of $580/btc, they would then have $5100 from their investment.

It isn't over for bitcoin yet either.  More dumping could follow.

You're so right, man!  My bitcoin that was worth $588 yesterday is only worth $570 today!!!  What a devastating crash, a btc crash to end all crashes!!


_{(In. case. you. can't. tell. that. was. mega. sarcasm.)}

Why not make it $200?  Or $100?  Hell, just say $50, you need to troll correctly!

How you guys liking that whipsaw action, weeehawww!

For the first time, short term poll shows bears and neutrals heavily outnumbering bulls by 2:1.

Contrarian indicator!  Time to buy! 

Drops like this are difficult for me.  I've been planning to buy more for weeks.  But every time I've bought in the past, it drops the next day.  So I'm like a kid that has touched a hot stove one too many times, finally learning that a hot stove is indeed hot and not wanting to get burned again....

Notice how the largest sells come in right at the 501 threshold.  But what am I saying, there couldn't possibly be manipulation going on.  Nooooo, not at all.  Nope.  None. At. All.  

Honestly if you sold at $500, you are a sucky panicky trader.  You waited too long. You should have sold at $570-540 two days ago.

EDIT:  Oh I see it hit you now. 

If we recover and rally from here, I will be really impressed.

Obvious Bitfinex margin calling is obvious.

Keep in mind, the "real" bottom is always a good bit HIGHER than what the bears think is the bottom or have in their minds.  After the last capitulation and leveling to $420, many bears and sideline watchers got caught with their pants down.  Because they were not convinced and kept saying "$200-250 bottom is a sure thing."  

Agreed, and well said.  Risto has absolutely nothing to win by encouraging and causing others to lose money.

Also, it will be interesting to come back to this board in a few years.  I'm sure that 90% of the posters in this sub forum, and on this thread, will be gone.

You really ought to STFU, you are the worst flip-flopper there is.  Everybody knows it.  So we should follow your divine predictions instead?

+100

Agreed.  I think that it's very fair to say, that the 2011 bubble/crash from $30 to $2 set bitcoin's progress back by 18 months.  People had lost total confidence in the market.  In the same way, if we saw bitcoin bubble/crash from $1200 all the way back down to $200-300 nearly 8-9 months later, and end 2014 much lower than the ATH, that would probably set bitcoin's progress back again by another 18-24 months.

So this is the reason a bunch of money went rushing back in to Ripple:

http://www.coindesk.com/jed-mccaleb-ripple-labs-strike-deal-avert-9-billion-xrp-sell/

Silly n00bs, don't they know it's just going to crash back down in a few days?

Bitch please.  The dumpers are gonna bring us right back below $499 very soon.

Lol.  I don't know why you guys keep saying that Shroomy is a troll.  I can tell he's a perma-bull who's just become a jaded realist over time, like me.  His skeptical observations and cynicism about the market over the past 10 weeks have been dead on accurate.  I don't consider that trolling, just calling it like he sees it.

And if we go up from here, I'll be ecstatic.  But until I see some real, sustained volume and we can even break $550 again, I'll remain cynical too of these little bull traps.

Seriously?  So who trolling who now?  Not falling for bullshit bull traps is not whining.  Saying that good news correlates with the market likely going down, instead of up, is not whining.  These are observations anyone with a brain can go back and observe ever since we were at $680.

And I haven't sold anything since $800, still holding and accumulating.

No, you better not say (er, observe and be right about) that, lest you want a bunch of people on this thread jumping down your throat and calling you a troll.

If I may posit another plausible theory:

I think it's a hell of a lot easier to create a bubble on a single exchange that had something like 80% of the trading market, than the 15+ exchanges we have worldwide today.  Especially since a large number of those whale traders back then were concentrated on Mt Gox, and were probably colluding and working together to push the price up (Some of them reading this thread right now, hehe).  Couple that with god knows what insider trading shenanigans and bots that Karpeles was running on that abomination of an exchange (to fake demand), likely trying hard to replace all the lost/stolen bitcoin, and China going bananas, and I think you have a perfect storm.

Would be much harder to recreate the same today.  Especially with all the shorting and arbitrage, that didn't exist back in fall of 2013.

Margin hunters have more margin calls to fish for, Ethereum dev team has about 3000 more coins to dump on the market in the next two weeks, no volume buyers, and you guys are convinced we have already hit bottom?  Really?

Wow, all the screaming that "the bottom is in!", "we'll never see $500 again!", and now we are already heading quickly back down again to $500.  Don't believe the hype.

Coinbase ran out of coins the day the Expedia news came out.  Then the price proceeded to plummet another $30 in the 24 hours that followed.  Ask me how I know this.  The price has been in decline ever since.

That's why CB running out of coins is meaningless news, unless we are running up in a bubble.

Ummm... didn't YOU just say that yesterday was the bottom?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741715.0

That'll be super easy for the whales:  Just stop buying for a while, price falls, profit.

Looks like when China Gov't tried to "ban" bitcoin to make it lose favor with its young people, and failed, they ended up getting their wish anyway: Chinese selling off massive amount of coins without a real ban.  Go figure.  Maybe they should use reverse psychology by trying to "ban" it again.

_{(But.. but... wait, aren't they supposed to be so in love with bitcoin over there??  Guyz?)}

Your wise and powerful shill--, er, words convinced me just now to dump all my bitcoin for ripples!  Thank you, oh benevolent one, for saving my future!!!

Obvious Stamp short squeezing attempt is blatantly obvious.  Fake buy wall is fake.  But other exchanges resisting.

Wow, the shorts are going to make a killing.

So everything from mid May onwards was a complete lie.   The news will go crazy with this crap.  Sell hello to Bitcoin being set back another 18-24 months.

Yes.  While there at it, let's throw in some more country bitcoin "bans", more threats of 51% attacks, some more "ancient coins just moved!!", some "OMG Ethereum about to dump again!", and some more margin hunting, and... and....

If it hits 550, and stays at that minimum for 2 weeks or more, then it's likely a true reversal.  I'll happily buy more then.

Until then, it's still a bear downturn.  Acting like it's all over now is just silly.  It's the equivalent of shouting "We'll never see sub 500 again!" just yesterday.

You're not, you are just talking your book.  I'm sure you just got some cheap coins that you want to unload.  So transparent.

I have no interest in day trading, I'm in it for the long term.

The flash crash made the shorts cover earlier than expected, no steam left.  There will be no significant rise for you to profit.  Get ready to cut and run!  

Day Tradarzz, getting nervous already?  Margin looking kinda... slim?  Bag starting to get a little, um, weighty there?  Tsk, tsk.

Better sell soonz...

Are you holding heavy coins?  Are you itching to sell?    So heavy...

It's because in the whales' quest for margin call hunting (first Bitfinex, then BTC-e), they have effectively killed the market, killed off all confidence in it now.  No sharp bounce from a local bottom like they expected, no strong support signal like we had in April.  Completely reversing all the upward progress and momentum from mid- May.

People who bought at the beginning of the year are now tired and fearful of this market.  People who bought since mid- May are now tired and fearful of this market.  So who's left to buy now?

Looking at the charts, it looks a lot like 2011.

I'm sure he means something like "investing since January 2014".  Under those circumstances, yes he would be losing a fortune.

That's exactly what people were saying back in April, after the reversal.  And look what has happened since?  We're right back to where we were.

Who's to say it can't happen again, a second time?

Sorry about your luck.  Sounds like you just diversified your btc waaaayyyy too much, and into too many higher risk options.

No, I'm pretty sure this is a guy (or part of a group) propping up Stamp in order to arbitrage coins bought from Btc-e.

The problem I'm having with Coinbase is now they want to control volatility on both sides of the equation: during sharp downturns and sharp upturns.  So this means that they will quickly and mysteriously "run out of coins" during the next bubble as well, which will neuter how high it can go by excluding their customers' influence on the market.  This is not allowing the free market play out appropriately, it is trying to control the market, and that is what worries me about Coinbase.

Can't tell if serious.

Exchange gap narrowing, price creeping up.  

Short squeeze soon?

You said it wrong, it's "cut my looses". 

+1000!!!  Speaking as someone that HAD a high-priced mortgage, and after 15 years of investment the equity was still shit.  The bank was the only winner.

I have spent the last two years cutting all my debts completely loose.  I now only have $5K of debt to my name, and that'll be gone soon and I'll be debt free for the first time in 18 years.

The next house I own will be bought either completely outright, or with at least 80-90% down.

Friggin' same here, man.  I'm not thinking it'll go all the way back to 440 in the next 24 hours, but definitely without a solid breakout of 530 with heavy volume, it definitely could within a few weeks.  And I refuse to get buttraped again.  Refuse! I'd rather pay 550 on a true, solid high volume uptrend than to get flushed again on a head fake.  I'm sure a lot of bulls are starting to feel this way after this nearly 5 month reversal from April.

This.  Also I've read plenty that one of the fastest growing segments in the U.S. is the emergence of new upscale apartment complexes.  Because hardly anyone can afford to purchase houses in the U.S. anymore, plus they move around so much for work now that it almost makes more sense to not be tied to a mortgage you can't easily unload.

Getting tested right now, lol

TL;DR - Either the shorts know something that we don't know, or they are absolutely stupid as fuck.

Yep, I could sense a big dump was coming.

FTFY 

You do realize a single whale can have multiple trading accounts on multiple exchanges, right?  That's how they arbitrage, as well as fake the market volume.  

Ok, the activity in the last week just unequivocally proves the theory that the crypto market whales take a 3-4 month hiatus during the summer months.  This summer was completely dead (except for that silly SR auction crap). What a waste of time and energy this summer was for me.

Next summer, I'm going to cold storage everything and not even look at the market from May to August.

Despite this small positive rally, I'm still neutral before buying any more.  Most of this is just sellers from 3 days ago buying back in, not fresh fiat money.  

It's not like the rest of the world just woke up today and said, "Man, I don't even know what bitcoin is, but look at that price! I'm ready to buy a shit load right now!"  Nope, they still don't even know about it yet.  No rally news on major websites. If you Google "bitcoin news", the only articles that come up are those talking about the recent crash.  That's not inspiring at all.

We're still gonna go sideways for a while, maybe even a little down again.

Just remember kids: sharp bounces don't necessarily mean a true reversal.

Just look at what happened in April - a sharp bounce from bottom off  339 all the way to 554 on about 4X the volume of this recent bounce.  Everybody cheered "Hooray!  Look at that volume! Downtrend is over, bottom is in, only up from here!"  Then look what happened over the next 2 weeks after the rally... slow fall from 554 down to 420's.  Where it stayed for a month.

So yeah.  I predict that within 10 days (by 9/1) you'll have your answer whether this rally was sustainable or not.

Only people that care are existing long term bulls looking to buy more, and not fall for any traps.  

(But I'll always be ready for CCMF!!!)

"We'll never see sub 500 again!"

Reverse trolololololol 

I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting really weary of the whole "Winklevii ETF launch soon, it will save us!" crap.  Not that I don't want to see that happen.  I do, but not only have people been saying for 4-5 months now Soon^TM! about that ETF launching, but it could literally be like another year away, or more.  I really don't want to read about it being "just around the corner" for the next 12+ months, from people who really have no fkn clue when it will launch.

It's the equivalent of saying "Bitcoin to $40K any day now!"  So tiring.

I totally agree.  But tell that to the legions of bitcoiners that believe that the only way we'll see another stupendous rise is with an ETF launching.

Let's talk about Adam and pretend he can't hear what we're saying.

Where are the buyers that are supposed to take us to moon? 

Hence sellers that dump.

The problem with a long slide down is, you don't know where the slide ends.   

Traders are trying to bounce as high away from 480 as possible, to make it seem like 480 was the bottom.  That strategy doesn't seem to be working.

There is absolutely NO WAY an international trading market would settle in sideways EXACTLY @ $500 price point on its own.  Absolutely no way.

Only way is colluding whales could stick it there.

Would like to know as well.  All new scam-, er alt coins bubble within the first 2-3 months of launch.  Then it's all down, down, down.  But down slowly, so it looks like it will recover here and there on the way down, but never does as interest wanes and eventually falls off the map.

Whale: "Oh, oh, what's this?? Aww no you don't.  I see you slipping there, no no, let's get you riiiight back to EXACTLY $500, right where I want you.  Therrrre we go, yesss....."

I just bought another bitcoin.  

C'mon guys, if everyone buys one, we'll rally.  BUY BUY BUY

Haha, when price starts to slowly grind upwards, bears first get annoyed, then nervous, then angry.   

Over the next couple days I think it'll be a slow grind up to 528, then bang! push through with volume.  And then panic buying will ensue.  

Yes, it continues to amaze me how much brainpower is wasted on the internet trying to convince a SINGLE person to change their viewpoint on a topic, meanwhile absolutely nothing changes or gets changed in the real world for the hundreds of thousands of other people....    

....Meanwhile in Gotham City.....bitcoin quietly creeping up.  Shorts getting nervous yet?  Wait until we get close to 529...

According to your acct creation, you have been in the bitcoin scene since 2011.  Can you tell me why you are not rich already?

You mean you sunk all your money into cloud hashing, or lost all your money in cloud hashing?

So let's call out everyone that said they were buying if we dipped to $480.  

Most of these so called buyers are full of shit, have no money, and couldn't afford to buy a single btc anyway.

Exactly.  Maybe they can even dump it so low to break the previous ATH of $266!  That way we could have an unprecedented event in bitcoin's 5-year history, that breaks everyone's complete faith that bitcoin is on an exponential trend rise!  That way everyone loses all faith in bitcoin overnight, dumps everything, including Satoshi, and the whale day traders can finally get back to buying and selling $5 bitcoins to each other over and over.  Yay!  

_{(Problem is that at that point bitcoin becomes feathercoin, no one cares ever again, buyers are gone, and the troll/whale day traders are the ones left holding the bag, haha)}

Let's make a new rule in this thread.  Let's don't cheer and bring out rocket/moon photos ever time the price rises $5-10.  Mmmkay?

I've been nothing but disappointed since April's month long bottom $420 --> $680.  Then we stayed in the $600-550 range for months.  It's been nothing but down ever since.  So wake me up when we hit $680 again.  Otherwise I'm completely ignoring rockets/moons until then.

Yep.  These retards can celebrate insignificant rallies all they want to, but again... wake me up when we get even remotely close to $680 on rising volume.  THEN, and only then, will I join in with the rockets/trains/todamoon carp.  Which could (looking at it realistically) still be 4-6 months away.

This?
http://www.euronews.com/2014/09/04/ecb-makes-unexpected-eurozone-interest-rate-cut/

I honestly think we broke upward because we were scraping the bottom at around $470.  The last bottom we were scraping for a while was $420, and that was all the way back in May.  So my thinking is the "floor" has rising about $40-50 since then.

Don't quote me on it though, as this is just my personal theory. Bitcoin is full of surprises.

You better close your shorts and fast, dude.

You're kidding right?  The price just jumped $20 on extremely low volume, just a few whale moves.  Imagine what would happen to the price if buying volume rose 100X that.

And the last ATH didn't even really start until mid Oct. '13, only 2 months before the year end.

Everyone knows you are a paid troll here to stir negativity and doubt.  Otherwise you wouldn't have a reason to spend so much time here.

I am going to laugh my ass off when one day in the future, just out of the blue, none of us know when, the whales suddenly reappear and start buying up bitcoin like crazy.

It's inevitable, and it will baffle everyone.  We'll see a hundred threads pop up overnight that say "So what's happening??  What's going on?? Why the price shooting up like crazy???"  And no one will know why, as there will be no news.  But it will just keep on going up.  Then bam, vertical again.

And THEN some major awesome news will come out 4-6 weeks after the price started going up, appearing right in the middle of the peak, and in hindsight everyone will go, "Oh, so THAT'S why!"

The sheep are always the last to know; the insiders are always the first.    

Yes, maybe true, but I think sellers are exhausted also.  Also the longer this bottom is in, the more confidence will build that the only way is up.

When you're at bottom, traders actually have to buy more bitcoins first in order to dump them later.

Haha, trader fail.  Temporarily trading BTC for LTC isn't really dumping BTC at all.   

Overstock news, price continues sliding.

Expedia news, price continues sliding.

NewEgg news, price continues sliding.

....

PayPal news, price explodes upwards?  Oh YES totally..

Ummm... not creepy?

Thanks for explaining these complex mechanics to me, with all my years of advanced computer science and economics knowledge I never would have come to this conclusion on my own.  Let's chat more about this in a few days, weeks, or even months, when the price has exploded upwards like you said because of this seemingly earth-shattering bitcoin news.

Mmmmkay? /s

That was your implication.

And you are wrong, people have to BUY bitcoin first before they can spend it Overstock, Expedia, and NewEgg as well.  In all cases, someone has to buy bitcoin first before spending or sending.  So like I said, adoption by Overstock, Expedia, and NewEgg had no affect price moving upwards, in fact the opposite.

4 Trading steps of silliness:

1.  Troll traders dump bitcoin ahead of PayPal announcement

2.  Troll traders buy back their own dumped coins, hoping to fake a small rally based on PayPal news

3.  Price rises, bitcoiners think it's because of PP news

4.  When small rally loses steam, troll traders dump coins again

Yep, rally failed because we're now on to the troll trader BS.

If your statement is true and noise increases to 99-100%, then that means this entire forum will become completely worthless in a few years. No one except the trolls will really come here anymore.  Perhaps no one will need to, for any reason, and that will be a good thing.

Without a way to (supposedly) influence people, whatever shall the trolls do?  

Actually, they're silent now because they feel they accomplished their goal.  And they did, for 4 days depressed price down to $460.  Now up to $480 and climbing.

Expect another dump within 24 hrs.  After that, I guarantee the trolls will return again.

This BS is all just too predictable now.

Obvious COMPLETE lack of any buyers is obvious.

I'm hoping that with the amount of bitcoin I own, I will become a whale in say 3+ years.  That will be fun, I'll start trading thousands of bits and trolling.  

Every day, for weeks on end, all I see is bots trading back and forth.  When are we gonna get some real buyers again?

The bitcoin market right now (and since Dec '13) is so shit, so limp, so sucky, so everything bad that a proper shit market should be.   In the same time period, other stocks have been flying or steadily moving upward.  Bitcoin, nothing but down/sideways/more down. 

Makes complete sense that I'm involved at all.  FML.

You did miss the IPO, apparently it happened in Nov '13.  But Bitcoin turned out to be another Twitter in disguise, hence the ongoing 9+ month decline, lol.

Hope you know I'm joking, right?

It's existing BTC holders getting impatient and divesting into altcoins.  Many of them are the same pnd shit coins that went nowhere a few months back, nothing has changed.  They are going to get burned.

Do tell!

_{(And please don't say Wallstreet or ETF, or I'm gonna barf)}

I wonder why a troll that keeps ending all his usernames with "88" doesn't realize that we're on to him...

You're right, it will definitely happen again.  It's not a matter of if, only when.  It scares me more to be sitting in fiat than in btc, because it can rise so fast. Which is why I'm pretty much all in and still buying more on the dips.  I sleep better at night that way.  

I may grumble a little bit here and there about the current state, but in reality I'm not sweating this at all.

Quick, someone post some more good news so we can drop to 200.  Then MatTheCat can appear and say he was right all along.

I keep reducing that number every single month.

You guys crack me up, always setting bids $80-100 lower than it will go.  Don't worry, your order won't get filled.

Buy hi, sell low?  Good luck with that. 

Traders are only using PPC as a temp safe haven.  They don't really care about the coin.  The $$$ will start fleeing back to btc once the bubble pops.

I feel dumpers running out of ammo, and shorts will have to cover soon.

This thing could bounce like a Mofo.

Actually ShroomsKit has a point.  Both traders and holders rely on buying low ONLY in the hopes that it goes up from there.  But what if it doesn't?

From a holder perspective, anyone that bought any bitcoin this entire 2014 year, would be sitting on some kind of loss right now, unless you just happened to be so lucky to get one at $389 in one 4 hour period this year.  Think about that for a moment.  Any of the hundreds of thousands of new bitcoiners that bought bitcoin this year have never seen a bitcoin go up in price, EVER.  Only down.

Actually, I would look at it differently.  If we go that low, and people really do start cashing out at a major loss, then we're looking at another 2+ years of slow sideways before even getting near the last ATH.  Because no matter how revolutionary bitcoin may be, the Average Joe just doesn't care enough to continue to lose money.  Period.  Even the average bitcoin enthusiast expects SOME level of growth.

... which stunted pretty much all real growth for the following 18 months...

It is when it takes 18 months to even get back to a $10 bottom.  And it took 18 months for the damage it did to the community enthusiasm to be forgotten, both by those that got burned as well as the media.

So it's greedy if a bitcoiner buys a bitcoin sometime, ANYTIME in the year 2014, and expects it to more or less retain it's value? Should no one have bought any bitcoins AT ALL in 2014 and held them?

Honestly answer the question.  2014 is nearly over, it's been 10 months.

Naive?  So welcoming to all the thousands of new bitcoiners this year.  I'm sure they'll have great stories to tell their friends and family about their bitcoin experience so far this year.  I'm sure they'll be eager to buy more.  And I'm sure that won't do ANY damage whatsoever to the bitcoin ecosystem.

Ask anyone who bought in during 2014 how expectations of higher growth are working out for them too.

So what's left.... currency usage? Yeah ok.

If you've invested anything into bitcoin in the year 2014 and held, you've never even made 5%.  You've been underwater the whole time.

Is this what noobs should have expected this year?  Even if they bought in May?

But what if this time it's different, and there is no significant bounce?  Suppose sellers just decide to walk away for 2 years?

Isn't buyers buying back what even day traders always expect?  What if they crash a market so hard that people say "Ok I'm done this time."  Then more miner selling, merchant selling, etc.

And why do you celebrate this?  Are you hoping to be the last man standing in this forum?

Spoken like someone who never bought and held a coin in 2014.  Must be nice.  Same goes for all those that bought only in single and double digits.  Nothing for them to worry about, until the price returns to their levels too.

Obviously today continues to prove that the people that actually care about bitcoin, are orders-of-magnitude hopelessly outnumbered by people who could give 2 shits about bitcoin.

What a great community to be involved in.

<Sigh>

Not if those same sold coins keep getting bought back up by the people who don't give 2 shits about bitcoin.  Over, and over, and over again.  We can't stop those whose only goal in life is gleefully buying/dumping and buying/dumping some more.  They don't care what the price is, it makes no difference to them.  They will trade if the price is $400 or $4.  And they don't care if no one is left to buy in the end.

All I see is whales buying back their own coins that they dumped, and shorts covering.

What I DON'T see is the general public buying back in.  Want to know why?  Dumpers have destroyed all confidence in the market.  For 9 1/2 straight months now.  It's not winning over any hearts and minds.

But the callous people on this thread will just tell you "Shut the fk up, it's bitcoin!  It's a free market!  It will recover!"  Blah blah blah.

So their "forgetting" how awesome bitcoin is and selling off is somehow a good thing?  What if they forget permanently?  Losing hearts and minds?

Oh wait, I forgot... this is so fun to watch the price plummet! Exciting times!  /s

No. Bounce. At. All.

Repeat of 2011 confirmed.  See ya'll at the next ATH in 18 months.  

Yeah, god forbid that anyone actually buy on exchange and move the price up.  I mean, who would want that?  That would show too much confidence in the market.  Plus only commoners buy btc on exchanges... pfiff

I know EXACTLY what happened.
  
Big speculatively money rushed back into the market in May, only due to expectations that the only bottom ever to occur this year was IN (i.e., it can't get any worse than the Mt. Gox implosion, right?), and expectations of the start of a new rally by July.  When it was clear that by August a new rally wasn't going to happen, they did a 180 and bailed.

Just one look at the charts since April/May tells that whole story.

If there is one thing I have learned as a retail investor, is NEVER buy the IPO on opening day... wait 6 months first, or you'll regret it

Dat PPC PnD bubble pop.. on its way back to $0.70

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/ppcusd

I know, who didn't see that one from a mile away?  And someone actually PnD'd Feathercoin, wtf.  Monero going down too...

699.99
599.99
499.99
399.99
...

Seen these before?  I have.

None of these are natural exchange market numbers, where a market would naturally settle.  They are 100% manipulated by whales trying to sucker more n00bs in.

There are no real buyers, only whales selling to each other.  We are going down further.

Yes, but it's clear then that the 6999.99 top will not be due to any real public demand.  Only speculators fooling people into thinking that.  

I guess the lesson learned here for the public for the next bubble is: buy now, sell 95-100% at the top and walk away for at least 12 months.  Because everything that happens after the blowoff is a complete mirage.

I agree with your thoughts on this.  One add on the payment processor, at least Coinbase have said that try to sell merchant coins on the exchange market during the least volatile periods when it will affect the exchange rate minimally.  I also believe that they are holding more percentage of coins now and doing more off-exchange merchant transactions.

Yep.  Otherwise right now the public would feel that a 700, 800, or even a $1000 coin is still a good deal, and the current price is a no-brainer.  Which they don't.  Even as a bitcoin enthusiast, would you pay those prices?  It's going to take a long time for people to feel that those are bargain prices again.  A long time.

In fact, it's going to take a serious influx of investor funds.  Not sure when that will happen again.

So I predicted "a long time" (meaning at least 6+ months without an investor pump) and your comments ambiguously refuted that.  So care to give us insight on when you believe that the price will be back to even 700 again?  Or are you just being contrarian for the lulz?

Oooh, look, the pumpers' pump didn't work.  So they're dumping again.  

I can't imagine why bitcoin suddenly got all unpopular, with a full 10 months of straight dumping and all.  Who woulda thunk it?  

Has the market gotten so bad the people are seriously cheering a move from $399 to $401 now?  Right now anything above $400 is just as fake as $399.99.

Wake me up when we are back at $680 $510, then I'll believe some Average Joe's are actually buying again.

There's nothing in this current market that is encouraging for bulls, not that I can see.  If we had a sharp bounce like we did back in May, that would be another story.

So what am I missing here?  Or are you just talking smack?

With comments like these you're starting to sound like another "Teflon Man", Adam.

Do tell?

The price always seems to fall right after I buy some.  So let me know when you guys want a dip, and I'll make it happen for you.

Apparently the world loves them too!  Wow, just look at all that buying going on!    And if it slides further, I'm sure that we'll see multi-millions, maybe billions of dollars worth of public demand rush in instantly!

New ATH in 2 weeks??!?!!
 

Hey Shroomie, maybe if you and I are the only bagholders of thousands of $10 coins, we can just sell them back and forth to each other (for a small markup of course)!  We can set up our own private exchange. Wouldn't that be great??