Looks like we've run out of panic sellers.

I'm worried someone will take them up on the offer and dump 15k BTC on the market. Even if it's a fake/bug wall, I'm still surprised no one has decided to test it. 30% of the people predicting the 24 hr low think we'll be below $50 within 20 hours.

So if no one will bite on the $70 mega buy out, they certainly won't be dumping if it slides into the $60 or $50s. At least for now the panic has left the room.

Best dead cat bounce ever.  

You can waste a good hour on page two alone. 

I call bullshit on the 10k-15k-20k-25k bitcoions that would have to be sold at $80 and $70 and $60 and $50 to get there. The panic sellers have left the building. If you're not interested in selling your 5k bitcoins at $90-$95, you'll have even less interest on selling them on the way down. There's really one guy with 50k bitcoins who is just going to exit the market and drive it down to $50? Last 12 hours we have highs of 98, lows of 83. If you really were itching to sell, you'd be out now. Any drops now is just a chance to buy back in. Everyone who thinks we're going to $20-$30-$40-$50, they've sold their coins. Those people aren't holding right now at $95.

Interesting. The ask wall just decided to slam itself into the bid wall. All at once. Seems like a strange way to dump 4k coins.

Yeah why slam into the wall, push it back, then put up a wall to keep it down? Clearly trying to drive the price down, I don't see why else you'd do that. It's not making you more money.

A lot less panic in the market. Way more buying pressure. It will be back to 95 shortly. Thanks for the 11k coins.

That was just so obvious. You slam 11k coins, getting 1M in 15 seconds, ask walls go up, you're trying to drive the price down. You're trying to keep it down. You're trying to get panic sellers. There's no other reason on earth you'd coin dump like that and try to hold the drop. People realize that, use it as a chance to buy back in, and it's slowly heading back up. They haven't been watching the buying today, that was a poorly planned attack. Way too much money added to MtGox, itching to get in. Should have let the rally keep going up and just slammed into it when it slowed down.

Yup. Of the wall from 91-94, half got eaten, half got pulled.

Lots of people with a lot of money wanting to buy in. Looking at the last week, the buying pressure today, they're reasonable entry points.

I don't understand why someone would want to keep the price down. There's clearly someone or a group of people keeping it below $100. They slammed 4-5k coins into the rally yesterday that reached 98.5 pushing it down to 93-94. Then put up 25k worth of asks from 94-100. Those weren't old sells, half of them were from 94-98.5 that was just eaten. We know those were real because 5-6 hours later half the wall disappeared and someone dumped 11k of coins in 15 seconds into the bid wall trying to push it back. They put up ask walls trying to keep it down at 87.

That failed but they're still heavily protecting 95-100. I just don't really see why.

1) It's greatly decreasing volatility.
2) It's stabilizing the price
3) The longer it stays here the more people will actually believe this is a legitimate value for bitcoins (I'm not saying it is or isnt) Which does make it easier to rally it up (above $100) and rally it back up when it goes lower (then $90). Hard to believe someone is investing 2-3-4M to cement the physiological value of BTC.

Very little of that has to do with greed or making money at least short term. If they were greedy or wanted to make money they would have let the rally run to 110-120-130 then slammed the coins into it then and made a lot more money. It was clearly a goal to keep it under $100.

Can it really be some white knight of Bitcoin trying to stabilize the markets? The only big player who has the coins, has the money, who cares about the long term health of Bitcoin and the market, is MtGox.

Clearly someone is manipulating the market. And their goal isn't making money, at least in the short term. I just can't really figure the why or who part out. =)

As soon as someone started buying, people started pulling the 98 ask wall back. They're regrouped at 99. But the battle is going to be at 100.

As we speak 100-102 is being reinforced, they pretty much know what is coming. Too much buying pressure building up.

Gotta love that $100 bid wall. Here's what it looks like in my head.

Someone with a lot of coins really doesn't want it over $100.

Why would you dump 6k coins into a rally then put up a 4k ask wall at $100? You're trying to push the price down and keep it down.

Someone clearly is trying to stabilize the price and limit the volatility. Last night someone drops 11k coins (96 down to 87) and puts up 4k ask wall at 88. Clearly trying to push the price down and keep it down. That was all within 20 seconds.

Today we break through the 100 wall, another massive coin dump and more ask walls at 100 to deter the bid wall. That's not someone trying to make money or get the most value for their coins. That's someone trying to manipulate the market and keep it under 100.

Bears getting owned.

Ehhh... Sorta.

Damn that ask wall at $125 got his ass kicked. News flash, get the fuck out of the way, these buyers are not joking.

Best dead cat bounce ever. MOAR PLEASE.

Why the fuck would you short bitcoin. There's been tons of buying pressure and obvious selling pressure trying to contain it (ask walls, not actually people wanting to sell). There's been a zillion bullish indicators, if you're shorting bitcoin right now you're blind.

Someone please go coin dump 10-20k. This is fucking boring. I need to buy back in. 

I just loaded some rocket fuel, we're about to blast off to the moon!

The main problem I see is that Bitcoin is so dependant on the banking system. The exchanges fall apart without bank accounts, without wires, without ach deposits. Bitcoin works great as a "secondary" or "transaction" currency. Which means you use it when you want the privacy (buying bongs/dildos) or to avoid fees (sending to people in different countries). So you still use USD, you're paid in USD, you just use Bitcoin when the situation warrants it (and the advantages it brings).

When an exchange can be crippled because one american bank account gets closed, that sorta points to the fact this "de-centralized" currency really needs the "centralized" banks to operate. Bitcoin is doing well because Govts/Banks are letting it exist. Sure they can't destroy it, but they sure could make it a lot harder to use. Most sellers wouldn't want BTC if they couldn't convert it to their native currency. But Banks are greedy, they launder money for drug cartels, so I doubt they care about Bitcoin as long as they get a share (which they do, wires are expensive).

I knew a guy who got a bad rash on his penis from banging a goat. He used OTC cream to fix it up.

I'm not sure what either one of our stories have to do with banks or bitcoins. But there you have it.

Nothing gets by BearPig. This guy knows his stuff.

It's not panic selling. If it happens all within 60 seconds, it's someone or a group of people coin dumping. Toss in a little DDOS, MtGox lag, someone wants to buy back in.

Tried to get in at 138.25 just missed. Bleh.  

Hopefully, papa needs a new pair of shoes.

I love watching millionaires argue over pretend money.

I'm skeptical that a 5k market order to sell is the best way to get the most money for your 5k coins. It's also odd to see fairly large asks walls pop up right at the bottom of the drop.

A little. It takes someone dropping a fair chunk of cash to catch it. It gets pulled pretty quick.

Pretty crazy that someone can dump 10k coins in 15 seconds and the market is back where it was in a few hours.

Time frame?

Beyond wanting to limit a bounce back, why else would someone put up 2-3-4k ask walls right after a sharp decline, right on the edge. They were way too big, way too consolidated to be bots. There were still enough bids walls if you actually wanted to sell you could have. Not to mention the ask walls came up right after the final coin dump to 105-110. You can explain away lots of coins being sold. I find it hard to explain away people aggressively pushing the ask wall preventing any serious bounce back.

There's plenty of bid walls above 100. If anyone wants to sell, they can quite easily. Lag under a minute is pretty minor for MtGox.

Yeah but if the market just crashed 25%, you have 200k USD of BTC on MtGox, your first thought is "Put up 1.5k ask walls at $115 $118 $120?". You're just deterring a bounce back. If you're panic selling, you'd just sell them. And within 60 seconds of the coin dump? Who see's a crash and walls up the bottom? The size and aggressiveness of those ask walls isn't from people looking to sell into the bounce back. You want it to bounce back, your BTC is worth more. The only thing they do is help keep the price down.

Since when did you have a handle on the market? Yesterday morning you were full bull and saw the upward trend continuing. So you didn't see this coming yesterday, in fact predicted the opposite, and now you're lecturing people on charts and fundamentals? Within 24 hours you were horrifically wrong. You probably need a timeout. But you did have 2 good charts showing the upward trend. Maybe you can photoshop those, since they're sorta upside down based on what actually happened.

It was yesterday. Today is the 1st. The 30th is yesterday.

I'm not quote mining. You're lecturing people about the wonders of analyzing the data and charts, but 24 hours out you were forecasting the opposite of what happened. By a huge margin. Your "forecast" for the week was between $120-$160 (the price was $140 at the time). Not only is it laughable your forecast was "it might go up by 20% or down by 20%", even predicting up/down by 20% was still wrong.

The point is, when you clearly have no fucking clue where the market is going, you probably shouldn't be spouting off "OMFG YOU CRAZY CIRCUS FUCKS! GO READ THE CHARTS!". The charts clearly aren't helping you forecast jack shit, so you should probably come off the high horse a little. And the whole "sure my forecasts were totally fucking wrong, but I made a ton of profit" is the classic "I was wrong, but I ignored my own advice and make a killing in the market!". Like I said, take a timeout for a few days.

You really have no idea where BTC is going, stop posting charts please.

Thanks captain obvious. Nothing gets by you TA guys.

The ireport is basically where anyone can post "news" to CNN. It's not checked or verified. Sorta like regular CNN reporting. But no, it's fake.

We just went from $50 to $165. "there is no way" is famous last words predicting the Bitcoin market.

Hours, minutes, seconds.

That 1.5k BTC ask wall @ 100 just got punked. *lol*

That was meant to keep the price down. Someone called their bluff.

Don't Quit

When things go wrong as they sometimes will,
When the road you're trudging seems all up hill,
When the funds are low and the debts are high
And you want to smile, but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit,
Rest if you must, but don't you quit.
Life is queer with its twists and turns,
As every one of us sometimes learns,
And many a failure turns about
When he might have won had he stuck it out;
Don't give up though the pace seems slow--
You may succeed with another blow,
Success is failure turned inside out--
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far;
So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit--
It's when things seem worst that you must not quit.

- Edgar A. Guest

LOL

If you dump 50k coins over 3 days pushing the market down, you can't just buy back in at 95-100. That 5 million will buy things right back to 140 and you haven't made much if anything. Those ask walls are to keep the price down, while legitmate asks filter down and fill 100-110-120. So it's just not pushing the price down, it has to stay down in order for there to be coins to buy back in.

When the ask walls disappear, when there's no restistance, you know we're in the pump phase and the dump phase is over. But based on those ask walls we're not low enough yet for them to buy back in.

That's why we bounced so hard at $50. It was clear we weren’t going lower, everyone switched gears and started buying.

If you underestimate the buying pressure, you're going to end up losing money. The crash today should have suckered in way more panic sellers. There's been so much volatility, people just aren't phased as much anymore.

The thing to watch is the consolidation and aggressiveness of the ask walls. The big ask walls on the edge of a decline are to deter a bounce back and deter buying. Once the ask walls stop chasing the decline then we're probably at the bottom. Or the bulls make them run out of coins and then it's full rally time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see those ask walls turn into market buys. We bottom to 91 and there's this many people buying it back to 104? People are still buying. A crash from 165 to 91 doesn't seem to concern them. That's got to be unsettling to the people trying to push the price down.

I don't know if it's bulls, new money, bitcoin fever, but I can't recall a time where people consistently bought into down trends, bought into coin dumps, bought into walls. Sure you can call it bull traps, but man there's a lot of bulls getting trapped, so much so the price is going back up.  

These aren't downtrends. 40% drop in 7 days isn't a downtrend.

Yeah Black Monday the Dow dropped 22%. They didn't call that a downtrend. We're down 26% today. Like I said, not a downtrend. People are buying *into* a crash.

I'd be pissed too. This bitch won't sink.

0.1 bounty to the guy who drops 175k and destroys that dancing wall at 104 ;p

I believe you, PM me your address you win the bounty. 

Very cool. Keep posting them the 3-d view is interesting.

The whole slide is manipulation. The aggressive asks walls trying to prevent a bounce back. Market starts trending up, 107, 108, 109. Spam exchange. Market sell 1000 BTC. Someone out there really doesn't enjoy a good rally.

How big was the dump?

Few large ask walls left. Big coin dump coming or they are throwing in the towel. Should be moving back up soon. Nice time to buy.

MtGox giving their usa/cnd clients to coinlab seems like a real bad deal for MtGox. No wonder they kept dragging their feet, that's an awful idea.

Ask walls pretty much gone. Almost no consolidation. Follow the next big buy.

Can't figure out if that's a dragon or bull. Either way it has balls of steel. 

First time in awhile don't see much blocking at 94, 96, 98. Even 100/102 is down 40% from where it was. Could just be inviting a mini rally.

Hmmm, doesn't feel right. Not much consolidation on the asks, not nearly as agressive, no fake wall action. If they were going to throw in the towel they'd be buying. I'd expect a 5-10k coin dump if it gets to 100. If it doesn't come maybe they ran out of coins. But so many coins sold sub $100, I can't imagine they'll just eat those losses without a fight. On the flip side they didn't take down superman at 90 so maybe we are ready for a little rally.

No fee weekends? Someone e-mail MtGox. 

Yeah that's like using Apple's stock price in 1988 to predict movments today. There's TA on this forum who would draw the lines I'm sure.

And there's the coin dump.

I wish people would just let it drop so they can buy back in. The bulls will run out of money before they run out of coins. Even if they did run out of coins they'd just buy more outside of MtGox and deposit them. Going to be a long weekend of coin dumps into any hint of a rally.

I love slutty money.

Only 40% of Chinese families have a fridge. Under 10% own a car. 1000 searches by people in China adds up to one American 12 year old boy googling Bitcoin. About the same buying power. If China is going to save Bitcoin, just shut it down now we're screwed.  

If you think the Chinese Govt is going to embrace and buy a currency they can't control, you're drunk. They already crippled one digital currency. They don't even let people search the internet. They're the last Govt who will let people own an untraceable mostly anonymous currency. Come on. You really think the Chinese Govt is going to buy up Bitcoins? Stop drinking, get to bed.

Sweet jesus. They're not going to buy Bitcoins, ever, never, ever never. Ever. Never. Ever never. Never. Let's move on.

You guys should show him a little more respect, he is a supernode after all.

If people are making up fake stories about "good news" that's a sign. It's the same when there are fake stories about "bad news". Someone is spreading it, and that person seems to be throwing some cash about the exchange too. Ask walls look a little too consolidated to think we're now in the pump phase. I'd take profits as it goes up.

See that 3k ask wall at $111? That's to make sure it doesn't bounce back. That's from a person(s) who have spent a lot of coins pushing the price down and they haven't bought back in yet. So they're not going to let the price rally until they do buy back in. From my rough calculations, they need to price to at least get to $65. They've sold a ton of coins sub $100 and if they turn around and just start buying right now it's unlikely they'd break even at best.

When you stop seeing that obvious consolidation after dumps, and of course stop seeing coin dumps into every rally, then you know we're headed back up. Until then, it's just mini rallies that will be dealt with swiftly, punishment turns out to be like 5k coins dumped all once.  

There are some stubborn bulls out there. The market has absorbed a crazy amount of coins the last 5 days. Once this is finally over going to be an epic rally.

It was mostly eaten. The

1719.38   a few seconds ago   111.30

was accurate. There's some bulls who just aren't in the mood for someone to mess with the market. If you're trying to push the market down you have to be wondering what you have to do to keep it down. Crash to 71, and it's suddenly a great time to buy. A lot of the weak hands really have gone to more stable investors. There's just so little panic in this market. People taking 30% drops in stride and using it to buy back in. Pretty crazy.

Plenty of talk about the wall. It's the speculation forum. Talking about the wall leads to discussion about where the price is headed. Which brings up a wide range of topics. Everyone is looking at the charts. Do we really need every post to have a chart with triangles and lines drawn on it? This thread has more useful information then the majority of the sub-forum.

Edit: Even rpietila chatter is useful. Lets us know where the heads are of people with Bitcoin fever. The market has all kinds of people. If he wasn't here sharing, no one would be able to make up the stuff he says. So on one hand you have rpietila and the other hand you have people who think we're headed to single digits. Truth is always somewhere in the middle so it's good to have perspective from the extremes.  6 months ago if you would have said we'd be at $150 for the last 2 weeks of April you would have been called a moron predicting 2500% growth.

China is big. Bitcoin wants to be big. Get on the rocket to the moon or be left behind with the other bears!

http://qz.com/74137/six-reasons-why-chinese-people-will-drive-the-next-bull-market-in-bitcoin/

Not enough supernodes.

Huh?

Bitcoin is a great transaction currency. Want to buy a bong, double ended dildo, without the govt, your mom, your wife knowing about it? Use Bitcoin! Want to send money around the globe without getting raped by fees? Bitcoin is here to save the day!

There's 10,000s of people using Bitcoin for those two purposes. None of them are trying to "get rich". You're confusing the exchange and Bitcoin. The exchange is an entity on it's own.

I'd argue Bitcoin is way more useful then Facebook, but since I never signed up for Facebook I  might be biased.  

It's not about buying BTC. He's stabilizing the market and removing volatility. That wall is preventing the market from going down. The same as the ask walls usually prevent the market from going up.

Any of the big Bitcoin businesses would be interested in stability, including of course MtGox. Arguably, Bitcoin is MtGox. They probably care about the perception of Bitcoin more then anyone. They stand to make 10s of millions if Bitcoin continues to grow. They have the money and coins to do whatever they want with the market. If you owned MtGox, would you "let the market do whatever it wants" or would you "actively protect the market". Seeing as you'd make millions if Bitcoin grows, might perceive volatility as a negative, I'd be surprised if they didn't manipulate things for their own good.

There's also a number of people who have 50k-300k coins who probably have cashed out 1-5M. If I owned that many coins, I'd keep a nice chunk of cash on MtGox to prop up Bitcoin as needed. It's a way of protecting your investment. You can instantly remove panic, calm the market down, just by putting up a wall. Or even buying up coins, reducing supply, calming everything down.

The interesting thing is, the coin dumps have stopped. No one has sold a huge chunk of coins. No one wants to cash out anymore? More evidence the coin dumps are to move the market down, not to take profit. The market is small enough one person can push it up and keep it up. And one person can push it down and keep it down. Which means the market price of BTC has little to do with how well Bitcoin is actually doing. The exchange is its own ecosystem and doesn't directly translate to how well Bitcoin is doing. Price going up doesn't mean Bitcoin is doing well. Price going down doesn't mean it's doing bad. It's a whole bunch of people trying to make some money and Bitcoin is without question secondary on the exchange.

He's gone! God has forsaken us!

Someone tell Wallzilla that Monday is a banking holiday in Japan. We need him to get us to Fiat Tuesday at least. That mini-wall at $110 aint helping shit!  

He's still a hero in my books. 

General TA question, how do you factor in the order book? Not just in what you're seeing now, but in general when you look over the data. The depth, the consolidation, the consolidation at price points. What percetnage of the asks are real, what percentage get pulled as the bid wall approaches? Does that even matter?

Why would a bunch of new money on Tuesday cause the price to go sub-$100?

Ahhh, okay.

Banks are set to open in Japan in 18 hours. We'd need 20-30k coins dumped in very quick order, with little or no resistance on the way down. Seems like a horrible time to dump that many coins when we're at the end of an extended bank holiday and money starts arriving in under 24 hours. There's also not enough time to crash the price and re-buy. You need to hold the price down in order for asks to build up to buy back through. Otherwise you just push the price right back up and probably don't get back in any lower then you sold.

If you own $1-2M worth of coins right now, I really doubt you're about to flood the market and crash the price. The hype train will be running wild on Tuesday, probably a better day to do it.  

It's the bid and ask walls.

If you go here http://bitcoinity.org/markets you'll see it in 2d.

Notice the wall at 125, you can see the ridge in the 3d graph. Those are snapshots of the wall over the last hour. Very little change at the moment. It's taking the 2d walls, making it 3d, and lining them to give you a differnet view.

China hype, Fiat Super Tuesday, why sell now?

We all know if we start the smallest of rallies you'll have 500 guys screaming "load the rocket fuel, to the moon! bull nation holla! get out of the way bears!".

Shit that happens without any news. People are so eager to jump on a rally it won't take much, whether the China news matters, whether Gox even processes the wires tomorrow, who really knows. But if someone with 200-300k starts buying Bitcoins you'll have the forum screaming rally fever. I don't see a big down swing, if you're paying attention and you want to sell, you see what happens and let them have their rally then coin dump. So even sellers are probably going to wait and see what happens.

Someone should just make a new forum name called "Xien Ping Chow" and say how you saw the report and you're now planning to accept Bitcoins at your restaurant in Beijing. People will go ape shit and we'll probably hit $200.  

Wallzilla giveth and Wallzilla taketh away. 

That 5k ask wall will prevent it from going much higher. Would probably get pulled but there's not always someone willing to test it to find out.

*lol* He bailed quicker then I thought he would.

So wait, you want to keep the price down, but you don't want to sell. Mmmkay.

Moved to 104.

Edit: Ran away. Probably going to 105 or 106.

People are starting to realize trying to hold a magic number is silly. Let it fall. Use that money to buy back and you'll end up with more coins.

Everyone who left 100, probably ended up getting cheaper coins 97-100. Let them dump. Let the price go down. Let it hit bottom, then buy. People are pulling bids then just buying back up. Much better way to do it.

It's really not that dramatic.  

Someone dumped a bunch of coins all at once. The price went down. People bought it back up and someone with 4k coins is trying to pin the price down.

After all that excitement, we're down $2. It's cool you sold and you're waiting to get back in, but you don't have to go all chicken little on us.

The problem is someone with 5-7k in coins is doing his best to prevent that. Fake or not, they work. Given the coin dumps, the aggressive bid walls, the market response was fairly bullish.

Fake or real it doesn't really matter. Someone with 8k coins is trying to keep the price down. He's sitting there hoping to get some panic sellers. If he does he'll probably dump 1-2k also.

While he might not want to sell and he'll pull the wall, he's still trying to push the price down. Which means you take the price drop with a grain of salt. It's not the market moving down, it's someone who's pumping/dumping trying to make money. BTC market is small enough one person can push the price around pretty easily. Someone pushed the price up with bid walls twice last weekend so it works in both directions. It could very well be the same person.  

I agree.

If you take out market buys of 50k or more and market sells of 500 or more of BTC, the market is extremely stable. It's the big dumps/buys that move the market, then it just chills. Sadly there's money to be made pumping/dumping which is where almost all of the volatility comes from.

I'd say 80% of the BTC/USD on Gox is owned by 40 people.

I love it when supernodes go 3rd person.

Back to the wall, that ask wall is pulling back slightly. He really doesn't want anyone eating it up.

Looks like this guy plays for both sides.  

8k wall back. Gotta love rich people having a virtual penis war on the exchange. Least it's entertaining.  

Sadly is seems the chinese fiat has left as quickly as it came.

I have seen walls on both sides, that are suddenly dropped and the buying/selling plows into what is left. It seems to sucker people forward then the wall drops and its grabbed up. Even if a lot of the walls are fake they usually have the desired effect.

No walls? 1k at 110. 5k to 115, 15k to 120. They're not consolidated but there's a fuck load of asks out there between 110-120. For a $10 span it's well above average.

Very impressed by your determination and honesty. A lot of BS fills this sub-forum it's cool to hear from a regular guy trying to make some money. Don't worry about not being an expert, no one really has a clue where BTC is going. The more you trade, the more you watch, you do get a feel for it. Opportunities come all the time. Don't force it if you just miss one.

Consider making a thread logging your journey, trades, ups and downs. It's interesting and can be helpful for you and people might have wisdom to share.

A hero has stepped forward on team green (or maybe everyone else just stepped back). Fireworks soon?

Yes 3-4% gains every single day for 100+ straight days is impossible. You'd be a millionaire by Christmas.

However it's not impossible to earn a living day trading BTC. It's hard. It's not stable. There will be some very tough weeks. But it's hardly impossible.

Some would argue it's easier to day trade BTC then people day trading any other stock/market. It's much easier to spot manipulation in this market, which makes it easier to follow the manipulation up and down to make money. On the DJIA there's still manipulation, big money has an advantage, it's just harder to see it coming and you end up getting run over far more then you do here. BTC volatility is also great for day trading.

It's just the whole "Gox bank accounts/servers get seized/frozen and BTC is set back two years and likely crash to $2" that's the scary part. Other than that it's the wild west of opportunity.

Of all the bullshit that gets posted on this thread, someone explaining they're trying to make 3-4% a day trading, discussing price points they got into BTC, what price they're holding at now, their trading goals, is probably in the top 10% in terms of meaningful posts.

You disagree with the notion someone can make a living day trading BTC, so you're having a snarky response to even the discussion of it. Someone asked him, he answered. If the topic upsets you, stop quoting/talking about it.

People pop in with this "ZOMG I NEEDZ WALL TALK! TELL ME WHAT TO DO! TELL ME TO BUY OR SELL PLZ!!". Sometimes there's not much going on. A variety of topics gets discussed, it's a forum, people post stuff, if this upsets you it's time for a break, mmkay?

Way too many asks to move much higher. 20k asks from $114-$120. I'd be surprised to see $2.5M in buys plowing through that. Very little consolidation so I don't think it's mostly fake. Everyone who bought from $100-$110 just threw the coins back up for sale from $110-$120.

Bid side is pretty weak. 5k dump gets you from $114 to $108. 5k buy gets you $114 to $116.

So if you're planning to make some money today, hell of a lot easier to push the market down to $105 then to rally the price up. A lot of those asks probably start dumping once the price slides. Going to have to go down before we go up, way way way too much resistance.

Buy $400,000 worth of Bitcoins. Take the rest of the day off. Must be nice.  

It was eaten. Not pulled.

FTFY

Based on the charts that are posted we go through that point every 4 hours. We'll be fine.  

Gosh I'm here just for the charts with lines. By all means keep them coming.

Edit: Also 14k BTC until $120, still really steep for $6. Bids are starting to pile up but I think we hover around here for the next while.

Wait, we're certain that there are bots who removed the walls and crashed the market? Lets examine that a little more first.

Look at the ask bids 114-120. Bouncing between 14k-20k. Way too many coins for a $6 span. Unless someone drops 2M we're not going up for the time being.

Who is in a rush to drop half a million on bitcoins? Let them coin dump and fill your bids you end up with more coins. A lot of those coins were bought 98-110 and tossed up from 110-120. No one is in a rush to pay them off. No one wants to hold so its slow going up ATM. If I'm looking to buy in right now I'm waiting for a drop. Based on the last few weeks those come around a fair bit.

Couple of market sells. Someone wants some fiat. Ask wall getting tired of waiting.

It's a mix of Y2K and the Mayan calendar predicting the world will end in 2012. Except Coinageddon is real.

I have no idea where the Bitcoin market is going, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be gentle.

I was going to put a low of $200.16. Maybe I didn't read the question right. :p

Gox is up for me, $109.26

$109.20

Trade with confidence on the world's largest Bitcoin exchange!

Reliable

We're always on. Buy and sell Bitcoin 24/7/365 with the world's most sophisticated trading platform.

Not really. DDOS attack is usually 100,000s of requests a second. We're probably like 2,000. =)

What exchange are you on?

I'm seeing much different numbers for Gox. 109.56, down to 107 is 2k BTC

Secure

Mt.Gox is protected by Prolexic and certified by VeriSign, which means all communications with our servers are encrypted with SSL technology.

It's 1300 BTC for $108.16 and you said 107.

Yeah all their numbers are off from what I'm seeing. btccharts.com, mtgox live and bitcoinity are all the same, clarkmoody's order book is way off.

Bitcoin stability (excluding MtGox), hope this doesn't become a thing.

It's all good. Jaroslaw is just pissed we're not at single digits yet. And give the level of movement, the chart is still fairly accurate.  

It's not just bots.

The site has been up and down. So plenty of "real" people were unable to get on. Lots of BTC businesses use the api to make trades, like Bitinstant. I also believe there are trading platforms that use the api to do trades on MtGox. I don't think the drop is just trading bots.

This might be a "lost money and I'm pissed" ddos. Haven't seen much trade lag, looks like more of an attack on MtGox and not so much on the exchange itself.

I agree. A lot less panic. The longer we're above $100, people generally accept that $100-$130 is a reasonable range/value for BTC. If Mtgox goes down, that doesn't mean it's about to hit $50. Before people were very skeptical of the value during the run up to $266. The longer we stay here the more "normal" and accepted it gets. A "crash" has turned into value buying for day traders and bots. Every DDoS has less impact, people wait it out and continue on their way. Less panic, more stability. Hopefully we keep some volatility. ;P

Agreed. A little stability is great for the market overall.

Correction, hoping for a big dip. Here's how it works.

If you have all BTC, you're a bull. Rocket fuel, to the moon, China is a super power. Even bears stfu when they have BTC.

If you're currently sitting with no BTC, it's bubble, crash, Gox sux, charts with lines, chick little in da house.

Most people don't even believe what they say, they are just hoping for the market to go up/down to suit their needs. Don't bother asking them to explain, they'll just shit more FUD in your lap. Everyone else who isn't bullshitting the forum, is just speculating. Because no one really has a clue. If the guys making the charts could actually predict the market movements, they'd be rich and they wouldn't be on here making charts trying to convince people. People make charts to convince themselves, and if people agree that's all the better.

This reminds me of the time my gf told me she'd love me forever. Next thing I know she's banging a guy with more gold in his mouth then teeth. Now I'm looking for someone 25 who weighs about 105. If we were two lines on a chart we just crossed bro, and it's sort of freaking me out.

A lot of buying pressure, it's just that no one wants to chew threw that $2.2M boat load of coins from $114-$120. If the asks want to come down to $108-$112 they'll sell coins all day.

You buying BTC in 2011 had nothing to do with TA or charts. Give yourself the credit for that, you saw the potential (I've read your posts).

I know a lot of people who wish they could go back to 2011 and be entrenched with you. Those $2-$10 coins sure look good right about now. I have a couple of friends who wouldn't sell a single BTC they mined even though they spent 10k+ on hardware (with $2000-$3000 a month in electric bills). I thought they were crazy. Turns out a little passion, belief, some smarts and a willingness to stick to your guns sure pays off. Back in 2011 if you even said BTC would be worth $100 one day you'd be laughed off the forum. Most of us weren't sure this would be around month to month let alone years. There were some brutal hacks/crashes/scams that were some rough growing pains.

Agreed. There's 2.7M of fiat between $100-$112. No one wants to cash out 25k coins for 2.7M? So if the buyers think it's worth between $100-$112 and every seller thinks they can get more then $112, that's an awful lot of people who have some measure of confidence in BTC. And now we can get amazon giftcards for BTC again, yaaaayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Talk about no selling pressure. 2k BTC down to $110, and none of that 18k BTC between $113-$120 is interested?

No one is in a rush to buy, no one is in a rush to sell. We've found a price everyone can disagree on.

You must be great at parties.

Bitcoin confrences are the most anti-climatic non-news events of the year. Ohhh Gavin tell us why you like Bitcoin. Gavin why do you hate colored coins? 54 satoshi's? Really?

Bitcoin hype coming from the Bitcoin confrence isn't going to move the needle. Gyft news, top VC is backing his first company in two years and it's Coinbase, and everyone goes "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz". Won't be any news topping those two stories.

I think the opposite. You can now use Bitcoins at more and more places. I REALLY missed not being able to convert BTC directly to amazon giftcards. We've been through crashes.

If you bought at $105 when it crashed from $266, you're up.
If you bought at $50 you're WAY up.
If you bought at $79 when it crashed you're up a lot.
If you bought at $98 a few days ago you're up.

If it ever gets close to $50 again, there will be a line of people waiting to buy every single Bitcoin people want to sell. Lots of people doubled their money. Notice how quickly we bounce back from coin dumps now? When we went to 98, day traders bought every coin in sight. We were sub $100 for a new york minute. All those people who bought from 98-110, tossed it right up on the ask side from 110-120. People see a crash as easy money now. Because it has been.

If it crashes, people will see it as a value play. There's lots and lots of people who will invest long on Bitcoin, and give them a chance to buy more at $40-$60-$80 they'll do that all day long.

I'm not worried about the next crash, I can't wait for it.

Thanks for the edit but you had already gone full retard no need to double down.

Last 13 hours or so. Bids >= 100.0 going up. Asks <= 124.0 going down. Pressure slowly building.  

Date		Bid		Change		Ask		Change
2013-05-09.10:55		29,520				30,047
2013-05-09.11:15		29,078		-1.50%		29,981		-0.22%
2013-05-09.11:35		29,556		+1.64%		30,251		+0.90%
2013-05-09.11:55		29,644		+0.30%		30,333		+0.27%
2013-05-09.12:15		30,095		+1.52%		30,368		+0.12%
2013-05-09.12:35		29,987		-0.36%		29,937		-1.42%
2013-05-09.12:55		30,094		+0.36%		29,893		-0.15%
2013-05-09.13:15		30,321		+0.75%		29,431		-1.55%
2013-05-09.13:35		30,172		-0.49%		29,310		-0.41%
2013-05-09.13:55		30,536		+1.21%		29,464		+0.53%
2013-05-09.14:15		30,801		+0.87%		29,641		+0.60%
2013-05-09.14:35		30,805		+0.01%		29,907		+0.90%
2013-05-09.14:55		31,322		+1.68%		29,745		-0.54%
2013-05-09.15:15		31,061		-0.83%		30,206		+1.55%
2013-05-09.15:35		31,323		+0.84%		30,563		+1.18%
2013-05-09.15:55		31,393		+0.22%		30,562		+0.00%
2013-05-09.16:15		31,497		+0.33%		30,143		-1.37%
2013-05-09.16:35		31,423		-0.23%		30,465		+1.07%
2013-05-09.16:55		30,888		-1.70%		30,044		-1.38%
2013-05-09.17:15		31,251		+1.18%		29,575		-1.56%
2013-05-09.17:35		31,432		+0.58%		29,982		+1.38%
2013-05-09.17:55		31,809		+1.20%		30,001		+0.06%
2013-05-09.18:15		31,662		-0.46%		29,866		-0.45%
2013-05-09.18:35		31,645		-0.05%		29,500		-1.23%
2013-05-09.18:55		31,754		+0.34%		29,269		-0.78%
2013-05-09.19:15		31,806		+0.16%		29,621		+1.20%
2013-05-09.19:35		31,734		-0.23%		29,575		-0.16%
2013-05-09.19:55		31,894		+0.50%		28,505		-3.62%
2013-05-09.20:15		31,727		-0.52%		28,655		+0.53%
2013-05-09.20:35		31,552		-0.55%		28,701		+0.16%
2013-05-09.20:55		31,638		+0.27%		28,694		-0.02%
2013-05-09.21:15		31,563		-0.24%		29,025		+1.15%
2013-05-09.21:35		31,587		+0.08%		29,085		+0.21%
2013-05-09.21:55		31,969		+1.21%		29,057		-0.10%
2013-05-09.22:15		32,488		+1.62%		29,093		+0.12%
2013-05-09.22:35		32,292		-0.60%		29,079		-0.05%
2013-05-09.22:55		32,615		+1.00%		28,903		-0.61%
2013-05-09.23:15		32,447		-0.52%		28,601		-1.04%
2013-05-09.23:35		32,025		-1.30%		28,766		+0.58%
2013-05-09.23:55		31,436		-1.84%		28,861		+0.33%

That's just the market depth messing up. It corrects itself next refresh. (it's a bitcoinity problem, not the api)

Sausage fest. Sorta like Bitcoin I suppose.

You want to raise spirits? Chinese Fiat in da house baby! Look out! China is coming for you!

Ahh sorry. The MtGox depth sometimes glitches and looks like that. *lol* Aggressive walls however. 

Asia knows how to do things right. Most airlines in Asia have a policy where flight attendants are 26 years old or younger. Once you hit 27, GTFO of view and go sit behind a desk. Here we're stuck with 50 year old hags who are constantly pissed off.  

Trust me, less then you think. *lol*

Edit: Chinese frined of mine was from a very traditional family. Went back to China when he was 26, family set up arranged married. He walks into room of about 30 girls, picks the one he likes, marries her and brings her back to the USA. Cost about 10k. Two week trip.

Bids >= 108 Asks <= 116. Bids are moving much closer to the edge, Asks slightly up.

Date		Bid		Change		Ask		Change
2013-05-09_10:55		3,811				5,723
2013-05-09_11:15		3,856		+1.18%		5,739		+0.28%
2013-05-09_11:35		4,068		+5.50%		5,949		+3.66%
2013-05-09_11:55		4,159		+2.24%		6,017		+1.14%
2013-05-09_12:15		4,536		+9.06%		6,064		+0.78%
2013-05-09_12:35		4,387		-3.28%		5,823		-3.97%
2013-05-09_12:55		4,541		+3.51%		5,712		-1.91%
2013-05-09_13:15		4,815		+6.03%		5,511		-3.52%
2013-05-09_13:35		4,756		-1.23%		5,696		+3.36%
2013-05-09_13:55		4,895		+2.92%		5,758		+1.09%
2013-05-09_14:15		5,202		+6.27%		5,768		+0.17%
2013-05-09_14:35		5,135		-1.29%		5,924		+2.70%
2013-05-09_14:55		5,841		+13.75%		5,699		-3.80%
2013-05-09_15:15		5,534		-5.26%		6,159		+8.07%
2013-05-09_15:35		5,579		+0.81%		6,522		+5.89%
2013-05-09_15:55		5,525		-0.97%		6,549		+0.41%
2013-05-09_16:15		5,612		+1.57%		6,149		-6.11%
2013-05-09_16:35		5,455		-2.80%		6,330		+2.94%
2013-05-09_16:55		4,369		-19.91%		6,468		+2.18%
2013-05-09_17:15		4,734		+8.35%		6,505		+0.57%
2013-05-09_17:35		4,828		+1.99%		6,825		+4.92%
2013-05-09_17:55		5,163		+6.94%		6,713		-1.64%
2013-05-09_18:15		5,024		-2.69%		6,578		-2.01%
2013-05-09_18:35		4,968		-1.11%		6,619		+0.62%
2013-05-09_18:55		5,086		+2.38%		6,634		+0.23%
2013-05-09_19:15		5,139		+1.04%		6,917		+4.27%
2013-05-09_19:35		4,992		-2.86%		6,897		-0.29%
2013-05-09_19:55		5,171		+3.59%		6,783		-1.65%
2013-05-09_20:15		5,005		-3.21%		6,946		+2.40%
2013-05-09_20:35		5,207		+4.04%		7,038		+1.32%
2013-05-09_20:55		5,197		-0.19%		7,120		+1.17%
2013-05-09_21:15		5,202		+0.10%		7,508		+5.45%
2013-05-09_21:35		5,164		-0.73%		7,657		+1.98%
2013-05-09_21:55		5,220		+1.08%		7,796		+1.82%
2013-05-09_22:15		5,399		+3.43%		7,657		-1.78%
2013-05-09_22:35		5,238		-2.98%		7,578		-1.03%
2013-05-09_22:55		5,671		+8.27%		7,460		-1.56%
2013-05-09_23:15		5,347		-5.71%		7,068		-5.25%
2013-05-09_23:35		4,974		-6.98%		7,014		-0.76%
2013-05-09_23:55		4,926		-0.97%		7,121		+1.53%
2013-05-10_00:15		5,289		+7.37%		6,335		-11.04%
2013-05-10_00:35		5,307		+0.34%		6,390		+0.87%
2013-05-10_00:55		5,752		+8.39%		6,399		+0.14%

You should have told us that "It" is code for "nothing".

I fell asleep after "can't you" and now I can't even remember the question.

Way too healthy. The amount of asks (fairly spread out which leads me to believe there's not a lot of fake walls) is extremely high for a $6 span from $114-$120.

Last drop to $98 I noticed as we ran back up to $105+ that the asks between 110-120 where filling up extremely fast. It seems like a lot of day traders bought up the last mini crash and tossed the coins right back up for sale $5-$8-$10 higher. Which to me explains why there hasn't been much panic selling or coin dumping, the traders are happy to wait for the bulls to pay them off.

The problem with that is people are buying, but they aren't holding. They're turning around trying to sell it at a small markup. And it seems the amount of people doing this in the last mini-crash has put up a huge chunk of legitamite asks that make it very slow going if we're going up.

The majority of large coin purchases are done against limited ask resistance. Which makes sense, you blow 500k on coins you want the price to move. Your coins are worth more, you might start a rally, and hopefully the price stays at the higher point. Spending 500k and the price going up $1 isn't going to entice a lot of people. Unless 10k of those ask coins get dumped or someone drops 1M on coins, we're not going to move very much. Everyone between $100-$120 is pretty patient at the moment.

Keep us updated.

For Bitcoin I agree it's a good thing. I personally prefer volatility, bloodshed, panic, despair, exuberance and then of course exhaustion. I guess the roller coaster has to slow down at some point, at least for awhile.

I have a feeling there are a lot of people waiting.

$103-$104 will scare a few people into selling, others might sell into the drop hoping to push it even lower letting them get back in. It should shake up the ask resistance at a minimum.

$118-$119 will lure some people in who are hungry for a rally. It also causes some asks to pull the order, wait to see how far the mini rally goes, then sell.

But we're talking a lot of coins down, a lot of fiat up. Those ask/bids are extremely staggered. You can watch them jostle for position trying to get in front to be the first bid buying or the first ask selling. It's actually pretty funny watching them shift around. Which leads me to believe there's not many fake walls on either side at least in the 5% up/down range.

The bids are pushing forward, much newer orders.

Median order date for the asks <= 122 is Wed, May 8th 15:18:25 GMT.
Median order date for the bids >= 102 is Thu, May 9th 01:42:53 GMT.

That means half the asks from 114-122 were made before Wed, May 8th 15:18:25 GMT. That close to the edge, that's a lot of orders that are in no hurry to sell and haven't changed for days.
The bids are much more recent and pilling up faster. When it gets pushed, it's likely to be pushed up. How far depends on how many people join in.

500k of Bitcoins to start your day. Someone was hungry. And we barely moved.

Goooo Bulls!

Yup looks a lot better. 1.2M to 20, 10k coins. Should be able to slowly move up, that last wall at 120 is a big chunk of it.

Was just on cam with Bitsinmyhead, was a little awkward.

Someone didn't hop on the rally train.

All that buying, still 8k coins from $118-$120. The Bulls were eating shit up, but I'm not sure if there's another million about to be dropped.

Yeah you're expecting a 99% drop by Sunday. Ohhh you said big fall? Dude, life alert, it can and will save your life.

There's been some api issues, I've seen some weird numbers off and on. It usually corrects itself fairly quickly.

Someone's bot just flipped the fuck out.

LOL! Supernode style!

Almost made me choke on my breakfast burrito. Good call.  

Since $114, almost none of the walls have been fake. In fact more asks have piled on the whole way up. Those were people who locked in at a set profit and were going to wait for the bulls to pay them off. Which makes the rally that much more impressive, a hell of a lot of buying in a very short span. The bid wall has been very agressive, keeping right on the edge. Very little backtracking, the buying pressure just kept building and blew threw the asks.

The market reacting well to good news, who woulda thunk it.  

There were people back in 2011 saying mining was a waste, it was too late, you'd make more buying BTC. Mining is still quite profitable. I wouldn't hesitate to get into mining, it's not quite as insanely profitable as it used to be, but you'll make money. GPU I'd only do a few rigs that you can use as gaming rigs, the rest into ASIC. Plus it's fun and the more miners the better for the network (more decentralized, which is good).

The 7970s are fine cards, easy to resell if he can get more ASICs down the road.

There is nothing worse then a bear sitting on the sidelines, pockets full of fiat, feeling lonely because everyone left him behind.

Good news is, there's no shame in buying in, long term looks fantastic, a little bumpy in the short term, but there are enough cool gifs in this thread to keep you happy (and a few charts with lines n shit).

I don't think so. The bid wall has lagged a little since the push to $122. But $115-$120 is pretty solid.

$122 to $125 is 12k BTC. Unless some new money starts making up for lost time, we'll probably bounce around $118-$121 for a bit. We'll see some dumping for sure, but there's enough buying pressure to keep us above $115.

The ask wall doesn't seem to be getting out of the way at any point so far, it will be a lot of little jumps, regrouping, let the bids come forward then it's up again. If the rally continues it will be slower, that jump was 2 days of no action crammed into 3 hours.

If I was selling between $122-$130 right now, I'd be content to wait for the bulls to pay me off. I'd be surprised to see a lot of panic selling, we're more lilkey to pickup some bears to buy up any dumps. Any drop right now is a chance for someone to get back in.

It's posting under ChartBuddy so you can easily click ignore.

Most hours, it's the only post on topic. Is it really holding you back from seeing the cool animated gifs? Once an hour seems pretty good to me.

Check out the 3d wall chart on shrooms or LSD, you can actually get INSIDE the wall. Then you just ask the wall itself if Bitcoin is going up or down, trust me they never lie.

Anywho, it's sometimes interesting to see the changes in 3-d during volatility. In terms of auto posting a chart, I don't have a problem with it. It's the only chart on here that's not trying to manipulate someone.  

About 500k.

*lol* Sorry yeah USD. Was between 4-5k BTC purchase. Followed by about a 2.5k BTC purchase. Some pretty big buys.

Just in case you weren't trolling and because we have a lot of new people on the forum, I'll share some pro tips to deal with slippage on both sides.

For people who have no idea what he's talking about, lets say he has 100k USD he wants to use to buy Bitcoins. The price is at $118. If he puts in a market order for 100K, the order will end up buying coins at $118, $119, $120. So instead of getting in at $118, he's in at $119+. The ticker says $118 but he's forced to pay $119 to get back in. So that sorta sucks.

You only want to use market orders when you want to push the price up or down. Sometimes you'll pay the extra when buying (from slippage) because people will see a big purchase, more people might start buying, you move the market slightly higher, maybe start a rally, there's some built in short term protection for your BTC. When you market sell, you push the market a little lower and sometimes get panic sellers to join in. If you're not trying to move the market up or down you really shouldn't be using market orders.

But now you're thinking, I don't have all day to spend my 100K-500K USD on coins, I have shit to do. Fuck slippage, I want to get back in the game quickly. There's another option.

You want to place fairly big bid/ask walls near the edge. Preferably, right on the edge. The reason these walls get taken down so quickly is because the other side is also concerned about slippage. A 100k bid wall right on the edge, means people on the ask side can sell a bunch of coins with no slippage. Normally selling a bunch of coins you'd end up selling coins at $118, $117, $116 as you worked your way down to fill the order. By putting the wall right on the edge, you're letting everyone know they can buy/sell a fairly large amount and not have to deal with market orders (no slippage).

So if you're buying/selling a large amount, break it up into a few decent sized walls, put it right on the edge, they will get taken down (filled) very quickly. You can get in with your 100k USD right at $118, giving you a little lower price point. I see a lot of people getting impatient, forcing themselves in at a higher price when it's really not needed. You don't have to stick to limit orders $1-$2 below the ticker that can sometimes take hours to get filled. You don't need market orders. Go to the edge, get back in when you want to get back in, and go from there. You save time, get in more quickly, and sometimes the timing of when you get in is more important than the price.

In wonkytonky's case, a few bid walls right on the edge would have gotten filled extremely quickly, and slippage would never have come up. If anyone has different strategies they use to get in and out with large orders feel free to correct me. 

The problem is, they're all at $40-$60-$80 hoping for cheap coins. As Goat has said, it's not until $125 where people will let go of the notion cheap coins are just around the corner. Once sub-$100 isn't likely in the short term, those people will buy back in and we should have a nice rally. But for now they're sitting on the sideline praying to whatever pagan God causes markets to crash.

Edit: And in a volatile market, periods of sideways action are generally considered bullish. While boring, it's good for the market and Bitcoin.

But clearly there is lots of fiat on the order book, it's just in the "hoping for a crash" range.

It doesn't help that all the people waiting for a crash are posting the bubble is about to burst, crash is coming, sell your btc. They fail to mention if it did drop, they'd buy it back up faster then you can blink.

Shit I hope it crashes too. It's easy money. At the same time I'm not going to go around making charts trying to scare the fish.

*lol* Truer words were never spoken.

Agreed. It was a bumpy road, but I'm glad we're finally here. 

Highs are getting lower. Lows are getting higher. And we're settling down right on top of our historical growth line. That crazy market, it knew the truth the entire time.

People are quick to dismiss the run to 266 as a bubble. Which is was. However the exposure, Bitcoin press, spike in searches, downloads, growth globally, lots of very positive side affects. The old saying that there's no such thing as bad publicity, turned out to be true for Bitcoin. While you can discount the rapid price surge up to 266, a lot of legitimate value was indeed created. Whether that's 5%, %15, 30%, that's up for debate.

Take our growth line, add in a bump for the 266 bubble, landing at $105-$125 sounds about right. Days of sideways action. Where's the panic sellers? Where's the panic buyers? Panic has left the building. The people on the sidelines are praying for a crash so they can jump back in. When a bubble collapses, people flee the market. You have panic selling. We had an epic crash. The idea that people are "slowly" fleeing the market and "slowly" panic selling and that it's just an extended collapse is turning into a bad punchline. The only people left saying that are people trying to get back in at a discount.

We were at $165 post crash.

So the biggest risk to the market is everyone who bought in at $200-$260, who are just waiting to dump everything and exit? So wait, they rode out the biggest BTC crash in history, wait 3 months, just to sell at a loss when the price is getting back up to where they bought in? That seems like poor financial planning.

They dump coins, leave the market, people buy them up, it's not really that big of a deal. It's been going on daily for the last 2 months.

Sweet Jesus it brings a tear to my eye to see weak bears leave.

That's like saying, “I used to invest $5,000 in BTC when it got me 65 coins, but now it only buys me 40 coins, that sucks!”. If you’re investing in BTC, that’s a good thing. It means they’re worth more. Lets say you take $10,000 to invest on NASDAQ. Hmm, Google, $880? Fuck that. Groupon, $6? Much better.  But wait, you could buy penny stocks and own 50,000 shares! Holy shit ballz!

BTC has been over $100 most of the last 2 months. People didn’t have a problem when we had plenty of volatility. People don’t like it now, because woops, the volatility didn’t bail you out. So you’re faced with buying back at a higher price point and having fewer coins. Then you’d have to deal with the realization you shouldn’t have sold. Instead of facing that fact, you’d rather go trade another Cryptocoin. I could use $5000 to buy 44 BTC, or I could buy 1,500 Litecoins! FUCK YAH IMMA MAKE IT RAIN LITECOINS!

If that 44 vs 1,500 makes it look like a better deal, heading to litecoins is probably a good idea. However I’d suggest instead of $5,000, drop your investment pool down to like $5. Emotionally that’s a much easier number to deal with when trading.

This is how I imagine weak bears moving to other markets to trade because triple digit BTC rocks their world.

I find it interesting that the market suddenly got very stable a week before the conference. Seeing as Coinbase just got 5M, there's likely to be some VC money floating around. I'd imagine 10-30% swings in the price would be counterproductive to people trying to legitimize/sell BTC as a whole. All of the big players in Bitcoin stand to benefit from a nice stable price and it wouldn't be all that hard to artificially stabilize things. A single person is propping up LTC, so it's not like it would take some kind of elaborate scheme.

Trying to sell your idea, sell your business, partner with non-Bitcoin businesses, having the market drop 10-20% would generate some skeptical questions. Any news about the exchanges brings up questions about MtGox which I’m sure everyone at the conference would love to avoid.
A quick scan through the speakers, probably 60-100M of fiat tied up in BTC, they’ll make sure it survives the weekend. Along with 50k of BTC bids between $100-$117, people expecting good news from the conference, probably a bad time to dump 60-80k coins on the market driving it sub $100.

Makes sense for all the big players to keep it stable and makes sense for any big sell offs to wait for a conference bump. I don’t see it going down, if anything a few mini rallies leading up and from any good news. Next week, probably gets a little bumpy.  

The longer the price stays here, the harder it is to "dump". That's why you "pump" then "dump". You push the price up to a level where people believe it's higher then it should be. Making it easier to push back down (people panic sell, people take profit).

The bid side is well within normal ranges, when you factor in the low volume. Speaking of the volume, 150k coins traded is less then normal. I looked at the times the bid orders were placed, I don't see a spike in bid orders in a small timeframe.

I have my doubts the "stability n dump" strategy is going on, or would even work very well.

Not to mention stability removes panic from the market. Volatility adds it. For someone to create this stability then try to dump the price doesn't make much sense. Lots of good news this week, more coming I'm sure, going to be hard to generate a lot of panic and crash the price. I'd be extremely surprised to see sub $100 this week.

This is probably THE place to discuss the devil. At least any conversation involving Fiat.

"Responsibility to the Responsible" - everyone must experience the consequences of his own actions—for good or ill.

Correct, the exchanges don't drift too far from Gox. If they do, people buy/sell because of the perceived value based on that difference. The main issue with the other exchanges is liquidity.

Overbought? What the fuck are you talking about. What odds? My cat could shit on some graph paper and provide more accurate TA.

Pretty sure you have no clue what that word means.

The odd thing is, if you think MtGox is about to get owned by the US Govt, you need to BUY bitcoins and move them off the exchange.

What you're going to sell Bitcoins then try a wire transfer? Yeah, the US Govt wouldn't be able to track wire transfers. Oh wait.

MtGox is a cancer on the Bitcoin ecosystem, it would be great long term news if people left there in droves. Like I said, buy bitcoins, move them off the site if you're actually scared. The last thing I'd go is have them wire me money, DHS could have told every bank in the US to freeze any incoming wires from them.

This all still seems a little iffy. I'm surprised Dwolla would mention lawsuits no one can find record of, and MtGox would have no idea (they still list Dwolla as a withdrawal method). Seems like poor taste by Dwolla (who's CEO has blogged his support of Bitcoin) to say it's now "illegal to deal with MtGox". A lawsuit doesn't make it illegal, the DHS orders if they exist also sound questionable. If it's not a hoax it's a poorly worded notification from Dwolla.

Regardless if MtGox worries you, move *coins* off the exchange, not fiat.

If DHS is after Gox, they can sieze any incoming wires to the USA from them. Having Gox wire me money would be the LAST thing I'd do right now until we know more.

Buy BTC, move it to your wallet. Then move it whereever you want to cash out.

Uh, bro I hate to break it to you, DHS doesn't care about laws, they pretty much do what they want.

http://www.infowars.com/department-of-homeland-security-can-seize-gold-silver-guns-in-safety-deposit-boxes/

They just yell "A terrorist has used GOX to move money in order to attack MERICA!" and any business who tries to lawyer up will get slapped the fuck down.

The Bitcoin conference this weekend just got a helluva lot more interesting.

Wools. Looks like OKC just posted the dwolla SS.

New Zealand served Kim Dotcom up on a silver platter for the DOJ. And his crime was pirating movies. For that he was arrested, all banks frozen and assets seized.

Gox might be involved in money laundering for drug cartels and maybe helping terrorists move money around the world (I wouldn't put it past the DOJ to just make something up). And you're 100% confident MtGoxs bank account in Japan won't be, or isn't already frozen? The DOJ is only going after MtGox in the USA? Since when does the DOJ ever say "Japan? Not our jurisdiction". Uh yeah.

If you own a tinfoil hat, buying BTC, moving it off Gox, is probably the safest thing to do at the moment.

Not a good sign when she shows up.

For all we know MtGox bank account in Japan is already frozen, converting fiat to coins and moving them the hell off the sinking ship isn't a bad idea. If MtGox is fine in 2-3 days move em back.

You'd be a troll if you thought it was impossible.

Ask Kim Dotcom how safe he was in NZ when the DOJ went after him. He was pirating movies. Whatever the DOJ is cooking up for Gox it's probably worse than pirating. Why would they only go after Gox just in the USA? Feed Japan some bs about money laundering/terrorists they turn over Gox in a heartbeat.

You can easily protect yourself by getting the fuçk off Gox. Which is better for everyone long term.

http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/05/and-it-begins-feds-target-bitcoin

BTC will be fine long term. Moving away from Gox was always needed. This will just be a little bumpier.

I said "for all we know" which means possible. Like you said getting off Gox is a good idea regardless.

I'm hoping for $90 depending on what new news comes out.

I thought the more interesting line was

"confirmed to CNET that the feds had initiated legal action to halt Dwolla processing Bitcoin transactions".

Which should include campbx? Are they trying to halt Bitcoin or MtGox? Hopefully the latter.

Stop feeling the troll. Coinseeker is a retard. He's hoping the market goes down so he can buy back in. He's fourkey2001 2.0. Just click ignore, stop quoting him if you do reply, and move on. Pointing out he's wrong just makes he move onto some new FUD.

Wanting the price to drop? You're trying to make the price drop by spreading FUD. You're pulling shit out of your ass that has no basis in reality, you're scrambling for negative talking points, and as I said before, you're clearly autistic. Since you're in denial, here's a quick recap.


My favorite was when you brought up the Coinage Act of 1965. We get it, you're waiting to buy back in. You don't have to spam the forum going all negative nancy. You want cheap coins, that's cool. Bitcoin is going to crash, we get it. Kindly STFU now.

It's greed. They are so greedy, they will come on the forum spamming bullshit trying to sucker people into selling. He actually posted that he figured out Bitcoin was ILLEGAL to use in "most countries". *lol* Funny how he just had that realization after a crash, when he admits he's hoping the price drops, says he'll buy back in when it does. As soon as someone points out he's being ridiculous, he moves onto another negative talking point.

When people sell all their BTC, they come here and scream the sky is falling. When they buy BTC, it's Mister Bull in the house.

I call it like I see it, he's spreading FUD, plain and simple. He's that greedy, he wants the market to drop that badly, he'll sit here for hours making stuff up. And if you check his quotes I re-posted, he is making stuff up.

Agreed. Looks like $100 is the new $50. Lots of buying pressure the closer it got to $100. Without the Gox drama (I hope people leave that exchange in droves), we'd probably be at $125-$130.

If they wanted to destroy Bitcoin, CampBX would be down. Dwolla payments to CampBX would be down. And MtGox's assets in Japan would also probably be frozen. Check out the previous cases of poker and Kim Dotcom. If they wanted to shut down MtGox, www.mtgox.com would look like this



Since they can shut the site down whenever they want (joys of being a .com), and they haven't, that's generally good news.

Crypto currencies are here to stay. The US Govt is better served by tracking the Bitcoin exchanges, instead of pushing them further off the radar. MtGox likely wasn't playing nice and ignored DHS, so they slapped them around a little. If MtGox gives them all the logs (transactions, ips, account info) they'd use it to track people on their watchlists and let MtGox exist. It's probably easier to track wires then Dwolla, so they're forcing people to use wires to deal with MtGox.

There's still a lot of unknown, but overall if it's just some KYC/AML requirement issues (re: letting the govt spy) its fairly minor.

It sounds like a lawyer fail on MtGox's part. The DHS knows about CampBX, they do the same thing (also through Dwolla). If this is all because they didn't properly setup/register the LLC, it's even less of a big deal then anyone could have expected. They'll probably pay a fine and pay some lawyers to set things up properly. Clearly the DHS isn't after Bitcoin or trying to shut down MtGox. The company MtGox setup in the USA was poorly planned/executed and got them in hot water. I'd imagine this gets resolved within a few months.

Even better news, it had nothing to do with Bitcoin. They were exchanging "something" for USD. It doesn't matter what. They were not properly registered as a money services company. MtGox is incompetent. The US Govt isn't after Bitcoin. CoinLab probably told on them, and they got in trouble for fucking up their MSB registration.

In terms of Bitcoin, pretty much a non-story. MtGox is a joke, that we already knew. They'll probably pay a fine and re-submit the proper forms. Might be costly, but hey they have 50-100M of our fiat they can pay the fine I'm sure.  

No one will go to jail. Big banks get caught laundering money for drug cartels and just get a fine. BOA gets caught screwing people out of their homes, they get a fine. The US Govt much prefers money then a trial.

Lots have done better.

That's like saying, go make your own Facebook. Well FB has 400 million members, even if your site is better that doesn't mean you'll overtake a monopoly. By most definitions MtGox did/does have a monopoly. When liquidity matters, it's hard to overcome that starting out.

Over time better exchanges will come, and MtGox will lose it's market share. It's an awful POS trade engine, limited features, poorly run, unreliable and insecure.

You've been here 3 weeks. Yesterday you informed us Bitcoin was illegal in almost every country. You've stopped quoting the Coinage Act of 1965? There's a reason your wife only let you buy 1.5 BTC, you're autistic and prone to wild flights of fancy.

You think this bump in the road is bad? Of course you do, you've been here 3 weeks. This was nothing.

My favorite Bitcoin growing pain was back in 2011 when Something Awful hacked the forum and trolled us with CosbyCoin. I suggest you slow down a little, stop educating us on how Bitcoin, Bitcoin PR, legal system, and life in general work. Take some notes, you'll learn a few things. Get back to us in a few months.

Which is good. The US can't do shit to them, they're a huge company, they're extremely popular, it's a huge boost for Bitcoin. The more non-US businesses we have dealing with Bitcoins the better.

I doubt anyone went. I doubt Rontus exists. The supernode conference drama sounded like he took his rejected James Bond script (where he plays James Bond) and he modified it for the supernode conference. At the very least he's autistic. He's entertainment, like a tabloid. You don't really take it seriously.

He's been here 3 weeks. His wife only let him buy 1.5 BTC. He doesn't even know what shorting is.

Those guys don't even work at Paypal. It has nothing to do with Paypal.

It's just saying, "Hey these guys who founded Paypal, are now investing in Bitpay!". http://www.foundersfund.com is the group that invested, which the 3 are part of.

Yeah some people flipped out when their Bitcoins were being "converted" to CosbyCoins. There's people who think Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme right now, back in 2011 it was hard to generate any creditability. And when the main forum gets defaced with CosbyCoins it was sorta hard to take it seriously. Lots of hacks, lots of stolen coins, exchanges disappearing, bitcoin wallet sites getting hacked, MtGox getting hacked, lots and lots of bumps in the road.

But like this most recent DHS stuff, MtGox gets their shit in order, everyone else checks how they do business, things get more secure, Bitcoin keeps on keeping on.

Yeah, former. Used to work at Paypal. Don't work there anymore. Paypal isn't investing in Bitpay. No one who works at Paypal is investing in Bitpay. There seems to be some confusion.

Like I said, the fact that these guys started Paypal, they probably know their shit. So it's good news. But it has nothing to do with Paypal who is currently owned by eBay.

Rain? That works!

Ready... Set... RALLY!

Bids are starting to pile up. Slowly... Hopefully this good news filters around the web and we see some upward action.

That also means they are dumping on other exchanges to get their fiat back. So it's probably a little of both 

Gotta love Bulls. The kind of guys you wanna hang out and drink with. Bears however...

I've been sitting on that one for a week. About time I got to use it.  

The conference will be like adding gas to a fire. We all know what that means. Fire makes everything AWESOME!

That was a premature climax. Did someone forget to pop the little blue pill? Plan B, 20 minute nap then we resume.  

Take 2!

ROFL. Well played. Well played.

Don't you only post when the market is going down? Maybe see you like Monday afternoonish?

I like how that guy rolls.

Lots of ask walls disappearing. Appears people are going to let this rally continue rather then take profit.

About.
Fucking.
Time.

Bitcoin is fucking awesome! DHS fucking sucks! Booya!

People worried MtGox was going to get nuked, turns out it was just the Dwolla account. Turns out MtGox is incompetent, that's not news. We were headed for $120 before that, took 3-4 days to get back on track. We're only up $4 pre-DHS bullshit. It's not that much of a move.

In the meantime we've had a ton of good news,

1.5M Winklevoss Capital
WebMoney intergrates Bitcoins
BitPay Raises $2 Million led by Founders Fund

We should probably be at $130 if we hadn't been Goxed.

FTFY

10,000,000s of years.

EDIT: Looks like my estimate was too low. 

US Govt doesn't take something down piecemeal. Review Kim Dotcom and poker to see how they work. Just taking the Dwolla account lets MtGox change domains (off .com), move servers, move money (their accounts in Japan likely have much much much more money). DHS/DOJ don't play nice and give people "warning shots". MtGox being incompetent isn't news. They shouldn't have let people use Dwolla. The reason they were probably interested in the Coinlab deal was because they knew they weren't legal. Coinlab probably knew his and probably reported them. Again, MtGox being incompetent isn't news. It would be news if they weren't.  
 
Blocking US ips was a smart move by SatoshiDice. It's not worth the legal risk. Americans can still gamble, they can find out how, the website was garbage anyway.

MtGox/Coinlab lawsuit will likely drag on for years, has very little to do with the market and/or Bitcoin.

CampBX uses Dwolla. They're based in the USA. DHS could shut down their entire operation. But they're still up, they're still letting people use Dwolla to get Bitcoins. So clearly it's not an attack on Bitcoins. It's merely MtGox getting caught doing something they shouldnt.

Med/Long term it was good news. People leaving MtGox, moving to other exchanges. We need more bad news for MtGox, so more people will move.

This is what I think happened. The new FinCEN rules came out. It meant if you exchange virtual currency, you better be registered as a MSB with FinCEN. MtGox didn't want to do that, so they were working a deal to offload all their US accounts to CoinLab. Thus solving the problem. Turns out they back out of the deal, keep using Dwolla to handle US accounts, and end up getting caught. I have no doubt Coinlab dropped a friendly "tip" to DHS about MtGox. This is probably why they only went after their Dwolla, they failed to register as a MSB. Typical Gox failure, instead of properly try to solve the problem, they tried to work a deal, backed out, it blew up in their face. In terms of the Bitcoin market it's fairly minor. It's a boost to other exchanges, people will get registered, people will be legit, it's good for everyone overall.


You shouldn't let Americans gamble with a virtual currency on your site. Does everyone forget what happened with poker? All gambling sites on the internet should ban US IPs. It's not worth the trouble. For satoshidice you can still bet, still get paid, Bitcoin doesn't know your IP. I'm sure someone will create a site that scans the blockchain so you can view "recent bets". That's about the only thing useful on the site. People will post the addresses to place bets. People thinking that it would always be legal for Americans to bet Bitcoins online were being foolish. People getting legal, setting up the site properly, protecting themselves from future legal matters, that's all good. Like most poker sites online, block americans, problem solved. There's a reason WebMoney blocks Americans. It's not worth the trouble.


In those types of lawsuits, claiming damages it's usually a ridiculous amount. I doubt MtGox backing out cost them much more then maybe a million or two. This stuff usually gets resolved way before a case, I'm sure they'll settle out of court. Otherwise the lawyers end up the only ones making money. Also even if they lost, collecting the money is another matter. MtGox has a number of lawyers, I don't think this puts their business at risk. At least not for years. I'm sure a lawyer who knows more then I can comment on these types of contract disputes. From what I know, CoinLab ever seeing 75m is extremely unlikely. They'd have to win, and a judge agree, MtGox appeal, MtGox lose appeal, and MtGox pay. That's a 5-8 year process.

Correct. It's much easier to get around the issue with Bitcoins. Get a vpn, get a proxy, and you can access the site. You can use Bitcoins (no ip) and you're good to go.

If the sites block US IPs, they're protected from the US Govt. US players can easily get around it, using Bitcoins it's extremely hard (sometimes impossible) to track, and the US Govt can't do shit.

Bitcoin gambling sites blocking US IPs is a good move, long overdue. The more Bitcoin related sites that get and stay legal the better.

Canadian regulators welcome US Bitcoin refugees with open arms

Canada > USA!

Since the Wall is pretty dead, here's some fresh news for the lazy.

Businessweek		The Future of Bitcoin: Three Predictions From Experts
Forbes		Bitcoin Comes To SWIFT
CNNMoney		The Winklevoss twins are Bitcoin bulls
qz.com		I believe in honest money, Gold, Silver, and Bitcoin
PolicyMic		Bitcoin 2013: Wrap up
CBSNews		Computer visionary says he knows who invented Bitcoin
Reason.com		The Top 3 Things I Learned at the Bitcoin Conference

This kind of volume is just the buying/selling from Bitcoin transactions.

BitPay accepts Bitcoins for businesses, turns around and sends them the USD/EUR/ETC... For the most part they sell those coins right away (or risk losing money). I'd think it would be too risky to hold coins, the market goes the wrong way they could lose their ass. They need constant fiat to be sending back out to the businesses accepting Bitcoins.

Regardless, there's lots of these places that need to buy/sell constantly during the day. At this kind of volume, it's just Bitcoin transactions. It's hard to read much more into it at this point.

We've had some pretty violent corrections, people who really wanted to get out, have gotten out. People who really wanted it, have gotten in. Lots of people waiting for a drop to get back in. Lots of new people waiting to see if this price holds before buying. I sense a lot of "wait and see" right now in the market. MtGox hasn't even discusses the DHS issue. It looks like we're primed for an uptrend, but it's probably not going to be the rallies we've been used to seeing.

Of course if a few whales decide to drop 5-10M buying up coins all bets go out the window. But right now no one is in a rush to sell, no one is in a rush to buy. Ahhh stability.

The bigger difference in the fact you'll buy back in when it bottoms out, which was contrary to what most people did in 2011. 

Wonder how much lag would be created on Gox with a 100k BTC market order. Over/under 3 days? I'm going over. 

Yup. I've done a fair bit of work with databases, there's no reason on earth a company that makes millions has a trading engine that lags that hard. Someone on reddit claims they calculated MtGox can handle 40 trades a second. 40?! Even 400 would be surprisingly low. Either they're stubborn and refuse to hire outside help. Or they don't want outside help because they are insider trading the fuck out of market orders. The more trades that queue up (during lag) the more they can make. Large market order? Hang on, lets buy up some limit orders from the front, re-sell them at the back of the market order and we never lose.

Mark Karpeles has stated they want to go legit in the US and it will cost 25M. Wait, 25M? You've maybe made 4-5M? You have 18 employees? Where's the other 20M+ coming from? He's either going to use our fiat or MtGox has been insider trading the fuck out of the exchange.

The only reason I can see them sticking with such a poorly designed/running trading engine, is because they don't want anyone seeing how it works. Combine that with the lofty goals they have and no way they could pay for them unless they've been ripping us off for years.

The whole site is shady, the CEO is shady, the sooner they're dead and gone the better.

Oh right, unless you run an existing exchange, you can't possibility comment on how MtGox is run. Maybe those 7 people on the planet can chime in.

Are you 6 years old (and/or retarded)?

Thank you.

Plenty of single server databases can do 1000s of queries a second. They've made millions. WTF. Anyone who has done any works on databases, should realize there's a huge problem when the trading engine lags 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes? Huh?

To show how bad it is, here's a simple example of how you can lag the fuck out of MtGox.

Break MtGox Engine

The fact this works, shows how poorly the whole setup is designed. But wait, I don't own an exchange, I should just be quiet. Despite the fact it's PAINFULLY obvious Gox is a pile of shit. And NotMe should change his sig because he doesn't have a clue about programming, or math. Sorry, you just don't. 

Ad hominems? What the fuck. From the guy throwing out the "let's see you do better" logical fallacy. But wait, you agree with me. Do you even know what ad hominem means? I already know I'm right (which you agree with), I'm just calling you out because it's baffling anyone would object to discussion of extremely concerning flaws in the trading engine and why after 3 years they refuse to address it despite the fact they have plenty of money. It had nothing to do with my argument, MtGox is indefensible, that's a given.

Your programming knowledge comes into question when you defend MtGoxs trading engine. "Where's your exchange" implies it's harder then it looks, I doubt you could do better, and they're not as awful as you're saying. Which is why I thought you were 6 years old (and/or retarded). It's hardly baseless, your reply does make me think you're autistic. Sorry.

Who said it was simple? MtGox isn't #1 because of the quality of their site/engine. It's liquidity. It's a chicken/egg argument. There are plenty of market leaders who are poorly run. They remain market leaders for a number of reasons. You have this naive business paradigm that the biggest site is clearly the best, clearly well run, otherwise they wouldn't be number #1! Sadly in the real world, where real people live, that's not always true.

Apology not accepted. You should learn to control your nerd rage. It's offensive. The fact the lag continues after 3 years does open up new questions. It's clearly a fixable problem given the money they have. Why they won't bring in outside help to fix it is troubling.

There is a cool feature called ignore. There's also a cool feature called, "keep scrolling". Your mouse probably already has it. If it doesn't, they're pretty cheap. Look for the newfangled "scroll wheel". It's insane. It lets you scroll through the page really quickly. Skipping any shit you don't feel like reading. Crazy huh?

Next time you get REALLY REALLY upset at a post, take a time out. Here's 10 things you can try to make life on the internet a lot easier.

Mayo Clinic - Anger management: 10 tips to tame your temper

No, I addressed the topic, THEN called you retarded. That was a totally separate issue.

But the key point is why don't they fix it. I personally think they're insider trading the fuck out of the exchange which is why they keep running their home-brewed POS engine. Because they don't want someone else coming in and knowing what they're doing. In 2011 you could just say they're new, growing paints, etc.. But now? It's highly suspicious they refuse to address the problem. Call fucking IBM/Oracle, break them off 500k, pretty confident they'll fix it up within a month. As sloppy as Oracle can be, they still have some of the best DBAs on the planet available 24.7.

The fact they've made more money this year then all of last year, the trade engine is still a mess, brings up more and more questions about their credibility. It points to something else going on besides "it's a complicated system".

She calls more people retarded then I do. And so far I've agreed with everyone she's slapped with that label.

You're the one who started with the snarky/sarcastic remarks. I just ended it. Show some respect, I was here before you.