The rise is weak and it will start falling fast again at 520 or earlier.
The current rise is weaker then the one that did 465-510, and that rise already had hard time sustaining itself.
When will you people learn, that sustainable rises won't just pop out of thin air. These short lived rises are created by individual whales who get bored and decide to gamble.
BTC won't be out of this slow downfall, until there will be any important news in BTC's favour. Right now, the general public isn't buying because of the trust issues created by MtGox. Only thing that keeps the price from an collapse, is the desperation of the hodlers and miners. And desperation keeping the price up, isn't exactly creating an attractive investment environment.

You're pretending to love it, so you could pretend confidence with the price going up. It's been like that for months, with the "most enthusiastic of the enthusiasts" always so certain that now is the time when the price will go up. It seems like they have bought very high, because they seem kind of desperate for the price to go up. I hope that they didn't loan money to buy bitcoins.

I could only be recruited if the cult would have a clue about making money.
The Cult of Desperation isn't probably a very profitable group..

When you are holding 5000+ BTC, and you want to get rid of them, then you won't dump them together. You dump some, then wait for the desperate fellows to build support "because it's only going to rise now!" and then you dump some more. It's more profitable this way.
It's funny and sad to see, how this has been going on for months now, and the desperate fellows are even wiring in more fiat, so that rich fellows could sell with better profits and move on to better investments

The Illuminati sent me here in collaboration with the grey alien banksters. They are trying to buy ALL of the Bitcoins, because they just love high risk, low reward investments



Yes, everyone who doesn't believe another one of those "This is the bottom, now it will go up! Doesn't matter that there is no reason for it to do so! It will just go up! It will! It will!", aren't just very bright. Bright people tend to do the same mistake for months, while not realizing the ineffectiveness of their method. You seem like a very bright fellow, I bet that you are considered as an scholar among your peers

The fall of MtGox was just engineered FUD, so that someone could buy cheap? I never thought of that.
I have only one question for that, were the engineers The Illuminati, who were helped by the grey alien banksters?




I shorted several months ago, with the price being higher then 2x Now I am just bored to see this ugly slow downfall, and waiting to see if it will eventually come to an bottom that you could actually trust (the current one certainly isn't it lol). Then maybe I'll jump back on board. And when I'll do it, then it'll probably be an alt, not BTC, because their rises are more profitable, even if their rises are tied to BTC.
It's funny how the Cult started to attack me right away If I wanted to sell BTC to an investors, then I would hope that he hasn't heard about this place. Because by reading the majority of the posts in the speculation forum, makes BTC users seem like mindless lunatics

I agree, that the recent "China bans Bitcoin" news, wasn't very important to me either. But only because the China situation got clear already during the middle of December, where People's Bank of China declared that they don't want to see any business activity with Bitcoin. The bitcoin business that is currently going on in China, is happening on borrowed time, that was gained by slow bureaucracy and exploiting loopholes. It can be easily predicted that this party won't last forever.
And I also understand PBoC stance on being pessimistic about bitcoin.
There are more then a half Bitcoins mined, with most mined and owned by westerners. By letting the Chinese people buy Bitcoins, means that they'll let the Chinese channel their money into westerners pockets. And because China isn't known for their warm love towards the west, it's only a logical choice for them to break these channels.

Before MtGox, there was a possibility that buying could be stimulated enough in the west, to compensate the falling markets in China. But after MtGox, the general publics interest is so low, that even when about 2k coins have been bought over several hours, then people start calling it a "bullrun" That's desperation..

Well I would absolutely love if my posting would have enough effect to make the bottom come quicker. I would absolutely love if this horrible drag would already come to an end. But I'm not into comforting myself with illusions. Important players won't make their moves based on the general sentiment on this forum. They don't care if the lunatics here yell SELL SELL or BUY BUY. I'm only here to express myself and to pass the time.

I'm not trying to influence the Cult people here. In all probability you are holding only enough coins to influence the price 0,01% (no offense). There is no grand conspiracy why the bitcoin price is falling. The answers are actually really simple and visible.

I think that you can do whatever you wish. Even if that includes trying to persuade people that now is the time (again) when the price will only go upwards. Just don't get upset when I don't agree with you and share my opinion of it. There doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy of spreading FUD every time someone disagrees with your zealous vision

I personally express myself to encourage discussions and to share different perspectives.
It seems like you telling me, how you're only posting here to influence people and that there couldn't be any other reason for posting anything?

Thanks, good luck is always needed, though it's foolish to count on luck
Good luck to you as well!

That's desperation, mate. Desperation makes people do stupid things. That's why you shouldn't make high risk investments with more money that you could afford. Easier to keep your head cool and to make solid choices. If you get emotional, then you will start to mess up your hopes and speculations. That is the reason why some people see every small spike as trend reversals. They really hope that it would be so.

Huobi is an 0% fee exchange that is hiding the low buy interest with meaningless volume. 0 fee exchanges are making the general market overview less transparent. That is actually one of the important reasons on why the price isn't falling quicker. If Bitstamp would be the market leader with it's realistic and transparent volume, then the price would fall a lot quicker.

You will see the end of this bear market by these following indicators.

1) The price will go lower then most expected
2) The price will remain low longer then most expected
3) The loudest and the most enthusiastic bulls will start to blame bitcoin and everyone involved for the situation and then write dramatic final speeches of them leaving.

If you will get tired of seeing indicator 3, then it's time to buy, not before.

It was exactly like that in June. Don't assume that I'm new here just because my name is new. The loud ones usually aren't very patient people. You can see it by them constantly seeing every small spike as an bottom. And they will get agitated quickly if the price drops lower, then it was promised to them by those who they consider as authority figures in this forum.




Well, good for you. Some decide to ride bear markets, and some decide to move their wealth from bear markets to bull markets. It's a little hard to understand on why the hell would anyone want to ride a bear market though, if he isn't so heavily involved, that it would be difficult to move out. You could just move your wealth to another investment, where profit is more probable. Makes sense right? But, I think that the cult issue comes to play here. That there are people who consider BTC more then making money. They actually believe that they are contributing to society by investing into bitcoin. It doesn't make sense to me, because bitcoin has even bigger wealth distribution issues then the monetary system run by global banking. But well, this is religion and religion shouldn't make much sense. Religion can mostly be classified by the dogmas that are supporting it. Religion shouldn't be argued over. If some people chose to live a certain fantasy, then it should be their freedom to do so

I was talking about moving wealth to other markets that aren't bear markets and you understand that as holding fiat in a neutral position. And then you say that I'm not very bright..
Is this a joke?

When you'll read the start of my post, then you'll discover that I was talking about the end of the bear market. If anyone gets his kicks from trading at bear markets, then it's their choice to make. I personally like to play at bull markets though

Real despair will probably come when the price is below 300$ and will stay there for weeks, while experiencing couple of sub 200$ dips

I posted this about an hour before this fall:


And I get replies like:


And to top it off, the same person also adds to his post:



Some of you guys are really "special" here, aren't you...

What I have learned from this forum, is that the whales who are gradually dumping during the bear market, with waiting for support to rise so they could dump another wave, are the sheep.
The ones who have drug references as nicknames, and who are constantly wiring in new money to buy more "cheap coins", "because this has to be the bottom", are the scholars of this community who should be listened.

There are a lot of "very special" people in the world

Alts will always fall deeper and rise higher. I'm probably buying a bunch of alts when this is over. And in all probability, this won't be over anytime soon.
When the investment is high risk, then it should also be high reward. BTC is high risk, but low reward at the moment, because it's bloated beyond it's ability.

Bitstamp price went over BTC-E. This means that some recently wired money is converted into BTC.
It'll be fun to see how long will this last

I've seen a lot of those here.
Not that the outcome is similar, but the refinement of the prediction

Fonzie, this has been the best advice you have given yet.
Short dips down, where you have to be quick to buy, aren't proper bottoms. When there will be a proper bottom, then everyone will have all the time in the world to buy. The trick is that buyers aren't very optimistic at proper bottoms and buying isn't the most popular choice then. Only buy when the fools switch from being überbulls to überbears.

It's not reckless, it's business. They are just dumping their personal coins before they announce something that makes the price drop more.
Why do you need their announcement to realize the situation?
Like the MtGox folks, who believed that everything was ok as long as Karpeles didn't say that it's all gone

Huobi for instance, is a 0% fee exchange. Meaning that they aren't interested in making profit on trades. Their interest is more probably into using their customers funds as an 0% interest loan, so they could fuel their own investments. So, I would guess that their interest would be to avoid a sudden bank run, so they could pay everyone in a slower rate.

I'm pretty sure that if they would have dumped all of their coins, then the price would stay at 10$ or less.
FBI seized 250k of DPR coins that he earned with commission. And these were the coins that were given to them, without knowing if DPR actually has more coins. If you understand the technical properties of bitcoin, then you know how easy would it be to hide your funds, with only you having access to them.
Now imagine the amount of business that goes on at the exchanges. Think about commission that they are earning and think about how little expenses are needed to keep an exchange running.

It's so with Huobi, but BTCChina has earned loads with fees. Most of the rise that came at November, went through BTCChina. But still I bet that Leon Li also has more coins then anyone that has spoken in this thread.

Again the name calling. I have been right on most of my predictions for several months, and still, someone is calling me a Mr. Noob, who himself just recently discovered, that maybe we aren't in a trend reversal. Can't you have any respect for people who know better then you, or at least have basic manners when talking to a stranger?

No, it isn't so, sorry.
"400 is the bottom" has been the most popular belief and fools are still cheering for bitcoin going up. There has to be something stronger, that will shake the fools. Always exit an market when fools enter, and always enter the market when fools exit. And don't ever enter the market, that everyone is talking about, or else you will be the fool. Right now there is a lot of agony from those who bought at the top of the last bubble, but there has to be total desperation with dramatic finishing speeches etc. Then you know that the market is set to buy in.

I agree that most people here give bitcoin investment a very bad halo effect.

Don't worry about the alts though. To this day, most of the alts are tied to BTC because most of the wealthier gamblers always buy a certain percentage of many different coins. So, if BTC starts to fall, then they also sell the same percentage of everything. In the future, an altcoin will probably tear itself apart from BTC, and then there will be an interesting week Crypto won't die though. BTC will eventually die, but the idea of open-sourced private monetary systems is out, and it will bring forward new and better forms of transparent digital currency

Thank you for your warm welcome. I have nothing against the art of trolling, I think that it can be an entertaining act.

I would probably like to buy some altcoins if the investment will look profitable enough. I'm interested in BTCs price, mainly because altcoins are strongly linked to it. And of course I'm interested that BTC would stop this slow downfall and start a new upwards trend. But it can only happen with important positive developments in the market system or if the price is low enough, that there really isn't any room left. And these solid lows won't exist short-term, but these lows will last weeks or months, like they always do. It seems like you guys don't even understand the basic knowledge on trend reversals, or you are playing dumb and manipulating others to buy.

What gives you the idea, that something this dynamic like the crypto market, will continue the same simple pattern of expansion year after year?
Do you really think think that the pattern of previous years is all that we need, and we shouldn't concentrate on issues like BTC loosing the trust of general public, or losing any of the business that is left in China?

Really?

The start of the previous bubble was different, and the end of the previous bubble was different. Only thing that they had similar, was that they were both bitcoin bubbles. To overly simplifying things and saying that the trend will be the same as the previous trend, is dumb in my book.

I think that you guys should read up on finance, economy, entrepreneurship and the general idea trading stocks. Ignorance causes lot's of conflict here. I'm getting a little tired of it, because at first I will be called names and ridiculed, but when I in turn start to call the same people names and ridicule them, then they will start to cry that I'm cruel towards them.

I'm clad to see that you see investing into alts as weird.

Also, I'm not accusing anyone of manipulation. All I'm saying that these constant errors of calling false bottoms and trend reversals come either out of stupidity or we are dealing with deliberate acts of misdirection.

They first ones are calm and constructive. It takes some time before we start to get those "WE COULD OF HAD HEAVEN, BUT ALL OF YOU WHO SOLD JUST RUINED IT ALL!!1 ARE YOU NOW ALL HAPPY THAT YOU ARE KISSING BANKSTER ASSES HA-HA!!!1!! IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".
If we'll start to get those, then we are closer to the real bottom.

ok

The market needs some rest to build momentum, and all of this isn't an act to drive the price down to buy back cheaper. This act is about dumping coins and creating illusions to keep the buy support up.
There are plenty of experienced investors who want out with certainty and they are just spreading out their sales to get better profits. These are mostly the investors that came in during the last November rally. They have no emotional attachment to bitcoin, that would make them stay. They are just doing what their schools taught them, to cut their losses in the best way possible, and to move forward with other investments. The loss of the markets in China and loss of the public trust isn't nothing to them. To them, bitcoin failed in the attempt to pass the threshold from illegal to legal finance.  When these guys will finish dumping, then the price will be low, but it will be stable.

What if bitcoin was started as an April fool's joke back in 2009, and then it got really out of hand?

You guys should really learn to distinguish important and unimportant news.
Examples:

a) Bitcoin losing important markets - important news
b) Someone has a good feeling about bitcoins future - unimportant news

Throughout the past months, people have tried to present unimportant positive news as important and then get mad at everyone when this news isn't considered as important. Almost every week we get these new "very bullish" news.

It's always puzzling to see on who the hell would buy into these no volume "breakouts". Perfect example where greed will actually make you lose money.
If you want to gamble, then buy when everything is quiet and you gamble on the chance, that there will be a weak breakout that you can sell to. But buying into those after they have spent their momentum... weird..

Hey guys, don't be so tense. Just sell your coins and you can enjoy life without worrying until there will be another uptrend Don't do this to yourself, you are still young with a long life ahead of you. Don't waste it worrying about some stupid coins

Hey guys, relax. The sea is calm and there are many opportunities in the air.
Smell the roses guys, don't be so uptight about your silly little virtual coins

Dudes, no offence and all.. but...
could you just for one day.. maybe confess just to yourself.. that drawing these little lines on these littles graphs is just a method to justify your gambling problems?

nah, dude, bitcoin is currently an high rish, low reward investment
alts are interesting though

I'm not making fun of you guys.. just try to relax.. you are so serious about subjects that shouldn't be taken serious at all

you are telling me that you were around the previous bubbles?

If I had to guess, then I would guess that you bought from the top and that is the reason why you are so nervous at the moment.. But what do I know anyway.. You seem like the guy who really knows his stuff.. I hope, that when you are done making all this mad money, then you will have time to have some fun

High-five! all these damn people who don't believe that this is another trend reversal are irritating you aight?

Yaeh dude, I know what you mean. I was holding from 200, and sold at 1020, while hoping that everyone will realize that an proper uptrend also needs an proper boost in demand.. But this didn't happend.. so, I'm still waiting to see if cryptos are any good as an future investment or not

Dude, if you get this emotional about money, then you really shouldn't be involved with crypto gambling. Just take a deep breath and think on what would MacGyver do.
I've had too much vodka today, so much sleep and plenty of r&r needed for the whole weekend. Take care, and never forget to stop and smell the roses!

Well, the biggest holders won't sell everything all at once. They will sell their coins gradually, and in all probability, some of them are actually the same guys who are yelling "it's an trend reversal! Buy!" in this forum, so they could drop their coins with better profits. If the price reaches certain heights then there will be another drop. The drops that you are seeing, are the effects of those little spikes that you can see here http://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed. And this isn't over yet. It will be slow and painful as long as there are fools who can be tricked with these constant "trend reversals". Only way how this would be over quick, would be if less people would fall for that. Then the dumpers would need to fasten their dumping.

There are plenty of people out there who doesn't share the vision of bitcoins long-term success. There are people out there who see bitcoin as an temporal phenomenon, that will go back to single digits or less. They are not selling, so they could buy back cheaper. They are selling, so they could get out and use that money for other investments. Because in an investment perspective, bitcoin isn't very attractive at the moment. It's a high risk, low reward investment, and if you have no emotional attachment to bitcoin itself, then it's a calculated move to get out. If you have experience with investments, then you can see plenty of better investment opportunities then bitcoin can currently offer.

Those who currently want out are patient, because there are still fools who are feeding them. But there is the final point where the amount of fools have dropped and there isn't enough buys to even support these low volume rises. Then they will dump quicker, because they know that there are many others like them and the last ones will be the ones who lose. This slow downfall will have a grand finale that's unprecedented and it will cause an 1w volume record. Hard to tell the exact sum where the price will finally rest. Easier to tell that this hasn't happened yet.

Ignore everyone here who aren't yelling "trend reversal to the moon!" and guarantee that you will always be surprised when there are new drops
Some people here are good reminders of the fact, that handling wealth is not for everyone.

I'll quote my previous post, that will bring sense to the ongoing situation:

I actually agree with the donkey on this one. Low price has little threat to bitcoin. Right now,a low price would actually strengthen bitcoin, not weaken it. There has to be a solid bottom and certainty, so things could get moving again. Right now everyone who has a clue, are on hold because they have started to realize that the current price is only held up by desperation, denial and overly optimistic hopes. So, this uncertainty is actually slowing down all the progress that is going around bitcoin. I was already begging in January for people not to pump the price up when it is only supported by denial, desperation and hype. It was easy to see that the only thing it does, is it made the process a lot longer then needed. BTC should have fallen at 300, rested there for a month and now we would already be on a solid uptrend. But the fools kept pumping the market and created a lot of uncertainty about the present situation. But now the fall will take longer and the drop will be deeper.
Only real threat to bitcoin is competition, since the entire idea of open-sourced monetary systems is too big to just put it back in the box. The price may fall, but as long as there aren't solid competition, then it won't kill bitcoin itself.

Well said..
I also agree that it would have been healthier for the development environment of bitcoin to have a year long resting period. I'm afraid that this isn't possible any more since the competition will also keep pushing. The word is out that it could be possible to offer monetary services separate from global banking. There are smart and powerful people and organizations developing their own variants, that won't be made public before they are considered perfect.
I personally think that the main thing that needs development is the coin supply. Fixed coin supply with increasing deflation makes the currency too attractive for speculative play. As long as there are good opportunities for speculative play, then there won't ever be price stability, and that is the main thing that creates a quality currency.

The price is dropping more with less volume, meaning that people are pulling their bids. It shows that the price dropped 30$ in 4h with just 11.4k btc volume.
It now seems that when the critical point is reached and the grand finale of this downtrend begins, then the price will go lower then even I predicted. It may actually stay in double digits.
Still waiting for the grand finale, but sadly it probably won't happen soon. There are still some fools left who are buying up this dumping, and until they exist, we will only see gradual slow dumps.

I sold already in December and I saw that the price will go down from that. Only thing that fools like you caused with your desperate pumping is it made the entire process longer. Meaning that it takes a lot longer then needed until solid bottom is reached and buying back makes any sense.

In other words "everyone should sell until there is a solid reason for BTC to rise or until the price is low enough that only those are left who are ready to go down with the ship".

Give me new markets in central- or south-America and I'm buying. If that's not happening, then let the price drop until there is no room to drop and I'm buying. Otherwise look for someone else, that is stupid enough to buy into this slow decay.
It's frustrating to see the stupidity here on how people are not able to realize the nature of markets or trading. They don't have a clue about efficient market theory or about the relation between supply and demand. Only thing that they have is blind faith for drawing lines on TA charts, that doesn't actually mean anything.

I sold at 1030$. Only bought back for couple of hours during the end of February with 620 buy and 689 sold, when this fat fingered pump took the price to 700.
This isn't my first and probably won't be the last nickname here. My previous nicknames have been banned because I won't ever get tired of laughing at the irony that a certain crook of Finnish descent is presenting himself as an TA expert and market analyst here.

It's funny to see, how snot nosed tools like you, try to dismiss someone just because their username registration date. It almost sounds like tools like you consider this forum experience as education needed for understanding markets and trading.

Well, without jokes aside, that's kind of it.
The western markets are saturated. People decide their stance about bitcoin quickly, and they stick to that decision with rather radical belief. They either strongly love it or hate it, there are few people who are able to stay in the middle. Those who wanted in, are already in and those who didn't want in, won't ever enter.

Plus, there are plenty of countries in south- and central-America that have problems with crime and corruption, but have the resources to create a certain class of rich people who aren't well educated in the field of finance. People who have gotten rich with all kinds of shady shenanigans. And the best food for BTC growth would be someone who has money, but whose only knowledge about finance are youtube videos telling about banksters and their alien overlords of reptilian race.

I'm not lying to myself about bitcoin, it's not about liberty, freedom and saving the world. Bitcoin growth has the most potential where there is the most crime, corruption and dumb money. It would be ethical to stay out of this, but I'm saying "f*ck it" here. It's not like I'm robbing these people of their money by force. I think that it's part of natural selection that people who aren't equipped to handle wealth, should lose it to those who are. I have been kind of balancing my karma here by actually explaining most of the scheme to the people here, but they mostly attack me in return. So, I'm quite convinced that I'm doing the right thing here by saying "f*ck it".

The simple folks who want in, want in also because of greed and because of promises of getting rich without doing any work. These simple folks will mostly be the ones who ferociously attack you or anyone else that shows criticism towards bitcoin. So, if those people are victims, then they are victims of their own greed and stupidity.
Anyway, it's not up to me, I'm not running this game, I'm just playing it. It could be possible that marketing in those regions will fail and they will remain untouched, because we certainly aren't seeing any development right now. Everyone are too busy worrying about China, and running around aimlessly, hoping that the price will rise just because they hope really-really hard for it to rise.

Everyone are excited and hoping that this will be the grand finale that they were waiting for.
I still feel bored..
In all probability this will just be another small step down in this slow and ugly downtrend.
There are still too many hopeful fools calling for trend reversal for this to be an proper grand finale.

I think that the chase for institutional money will be the wonderful unicorn of bitcoin, that will always stay close but never caught. There will be officials like Lawsky who try to pump BTC for their personal gain and there will be plenty of promises that "just couple of more steps, and we're there..." but there will always be "unforeseen circumstances" that'll stop the red carpets from rolling.

Yeah, BTC isn't bloated at all, and it isn't pumped to these heights, on the presumption, that the future holds institutional investments.
All we have to do is look at the chart history, and we know everything. We don't have to consider the changes in environment or critical thresholds that need to be passed for further development. Just let's all look at the trend history and expect that the trend will be the same no matter of influence. Not like this method would only work with very specific markets that have stable predictable factors. Doh!
Then we could all just draw lines and get rich without any knowledge, experience or education. It would be awesome!

At first, I thought that you are an capable manipulator, and that is the reason on why you constantly pour honey into the ears of the novice, talking about "the certain trend reversal". But when I started to hear these wonderful talks about your new accommodation endeavors, then I realized that you really are as dumb as you look.

Even the donkey starts to get it.

You looked extremely prepared a week ago:


I'll only buy when the recovery is real, not one of those weak attempts that are fueled by denial, desperation and foolish hopes. I don't like those because they are unstable and unpredictable, and gambling with the support of blind hope alone isn't my thing.

I really believe that you don't.

Some relaxing music for those who feel a little tense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHCYHldJi_g

Get some rest guys, this process won't be over quickly.
Be calm and don't get sucked into thinking that you have to hurry. There will be plenty of time to buy when the true bottom is reached.

What you are seeing, is the process where some of the money from China is moving to western exchanges, mainly BTC-E. The reason is, that to some people, holding money outside China is more valuable and there are also plenty of western gamblers in Chinese markets. There will be many of these waves where people buy up in China, giving a temporal rise, and then sell in BTC-E bringing on another drop. Every wave will sink lower and rise lower then the previous one.

There will be a delay between the time when the coins bought on Huobi will be sold on BTC-E again. There will be a lot of chaos and drama until this process is over.

No thank you, I have told countless times that I won't buy into the rises that are only fueled by the desperation and denial of the fools Too unstable and unpredictable to be an good gamble.

Anyway, it'll be fun to see the drama when the wave breaks. When people are genuinely surprised again on why is this happening.

a) The biggest value for bitcoin was the ability to move funds abroad to some Chinese players. Not all of this money is clean, so it's not safe to withdraw it just through your personal Chinese bank account.
b) There were plenty of western players at the Chinese markets.

It was funny yesterday, on how most were surprised to see that BTC-E price the lowest and Huobi the highest. And they really had trouble understanding the reasoning for this, while the answer is simple if you use some common sense

Missing these unstable rises is like passing the roulette table, seeing the outcome and cursing at yourself "If I only would of called red, then I would of won". Meaning that you aren't very good at gambling if you start to think like that.

This isn't a simple arbitrage, this is migration of fiat that isn't useful to be withdrawn through Chinese banks for various reasons. This will come in waves because people don't want to buy high in China and sell low in the west. While the price is dropping, then people are buying in China and they will wait till the "recovery" goes weak and then dump in the west, with driving the price down giving an oportunity for a new wave to buy and the process repeats. This is the smart play to go for if you have money stuck in Chinese exchanges and you have trouble getting it out.

I won't buy into this even if the price rises to 700. If I didn't see 500 as cheap when the price fell to this level from 600, then I certainly don't see it as cheap when it rose there from 340. I'm quite positive that this rise isn't sustainable because nothing has really changed to the better. "But everyone else are buying" isn't a strong enough reason for me.

Well, after all, you are a donkey..
With all jokes aside, I just want the market to be more efficient. For that to happen, people need to smarten up, so they could distinguish what is important and what is not. These "recoveries" that are fuelled by denial, desperation and foolish hopes, just make this long term downtrend longer, and making the market ugly longer then needed. This, in turn, will scare away experienced and educated people that in all probability would have the most funds to spend. So, because of these temporal dumb pumps, everyone involved will earn less money because the market isn't efficient and therefore isn't attractive for people who have a clue.

To me there has to be one of two reasons to believe in the trend reversal:
a) Major developments in the market system. Be it new markets with proper volume in new geographical locations like south- and central-America. Or be it ties to institutional funding.
b) The price drops to the level where mostly only those hold up the price, who are ready to go down with the ship. For this to happen there will be a 1w volume record and the price will rest there for weeks or more with a very low volume. A good indicator for that would be some of the most enthusiastic and loudest bulls in this forum, who will start to rant and blame everyone for selling their coins and ruining heaven for everyone. As long as there is hope for fools, without any real reason for hope, then this isn't the bottom yet.

No thanks. I know that this bulltrap could go further and I could lose the opportunity to win some money, but this risk of loss just isn't worth of the possible gain here. I don't make my moves often, but when I do, then I won't leave it depending on blind luck. There is no way of knowing when this rise will start to fall and making blind bets isn't my thing. You go ahead and enjoy your coins.

So..
Huobi is the highest and BTC-E is the lowest. Any of you kids care to explain on why is this happening?

Good guess, my friend
But what do you think about the chance that they can't withdraw their money because the source of that money isn't legal or the owners of that money aren't Chinese citizens? What do you think about the possibility that the boom in China was actually started by wastern players that at first stimulated demand? So, the only option would be to transfer that money to foreign exchanges and figure out a plan later.

Losing one big important market, but they'll give it a try to jump-start a new wider asian market. I have no idea on how successful they will be. We'll just have to wait and see.

All on the presumption that bitcoin will get institutional funding and this happening is far from certainty.

I doubt that a proper dump will happen today. More probable that it will happen in the middle of the next week.
Right now, all the dumpers are waiting to see, if people are wiring new money to the exchanges to buy more "cheap coins". It will probably be Tuesday or Wednesday (depending on the amount that was wired) when this will be clear, on how much of those "cheap coins" were actually bought, and then it's more profitable to continue dumping.

If I had to guess, then I would say that this bot is probably exploiting the mechanics of some other bot.

Some fiat entered. It will probably be around Wednesday when the dumping continues. Till then, the dumpers are waiting if maybe more fiat will be wired, so they can sell with an better price.
I'm not buying into this because it isn't very probable that much more fiat will enter. There hasn't been any important good news about the markets, so nothing has really changed in the long-term.

Yeah, I'm totally boring, that I sold on top of the last bull market, and refuse to play the bear market where the odds are actually against you.
Degenerate gamblers don't care about the odds, they just want to feel the adrenaline by taking blind risks. I'm a different kind of gambler, the boring kind.

Yes, there could be. But the odds of that happening aren't good enough to play on. Some dumb money already entered, as we can see from this spike. This, in turn, made the odds of this happening again even worse.
If I would of wanted to play this, then I would have bought yesterday when the price was down. But I considered it to be a blind bet and didn't see the oods good enough then, so I certainly don't see them god enough now.
It would be very dumb to enter now, when the odds are actually worse then yesterday.

I would play an bear market, if I had enough invested, so I could control the general direction of the market. Meaning that I could know the future by creating the future.
You need more education then I'm able to offer you, when you can't understand how the odds are against you during playing bear markets.
Only degenerate gamblers feel bad when they lose the opportunity of winning an blind bet with bad odds. The boring kind of gamblers don't care much, because they know that better opportunities always present themselves in the future.

I already told you what kind of an trader you have to be, to have the odds in your favor during bear markets.
Anyway, I'm tired of little brats like you. Trying to wish an trend reversal out of nothing and trying to pull other people along to fuel their foolish hopes. You're the ones who make this entire crypto market scene look like an bad joke. The same people who think that they can just wish themselves out of downtrends, are the same kind of people who visit motivational self-help classes and think that they can wish themselves to be an millionaire.

Skimmed through some of your previous posts during falls and found these:

This posted on the 10th of April:

And one prior to the fall of MtGox:

And you started whining at me when I said that I'm not buying into this, because I don't see it as an good bet to buy at the tops of weak pumps.
So, don't try to act like you're rational about this. When one walks like a typical degenerate gambler and when one talks like a typical degenerate gambler, then he must be an ...

Yes, it was screaming of hopes of trend reversal and it showed that you were among those who thought that 400 actually means something. People like you have been whining at me since I sold at 1030, that I should buy at 900,800,700..etc. because they are really cheap coins, so I could make some money. Majority of those people are fools but there are also some manipulators who want others to buy, so they can sell with better profits.
Yes, the ones who bought into mtgox in the falling days were degenerate gamblers.
Degenerate gambling is about making blind bets. There are bets that can be predictable and there are bets that aren't. There was and there still is no way of knowing how much will be bought until the price starts to fall down. And the biggest probability here is that the price will at some point start to fall down. When there are some important developments in the crypto market system, then you can predict that this will give value to crypto and you can buy with the bet being a lot less blind.
I'll never invest into into something when my money is only supported by the hopes of fools. The hopes of fools are fragile and can break any moment, and when will this happen, can only be guessed, not predicted.
And now, stop whining, because I'm not buying into this no matter how much you whine.

I bought during the start of November, where there were more in play then just the hopes of fools. Sold at the middle of December, and every rise has been fuelled by the hopes of fools ever since. This downtrend would be over quicker if there wouldn't be so many fools in the game.

Feelings have nothing to do with it. Proper data about the current direction of value will decide when you can say that it's smart investing into BTC. And this isn't about drawing lines on the charts like a 6 year old. It's about taking more factors into consideration like the factors that stimulate demand. Right now, BTC is not a smart investment, it's a blind bet, supported by hope that more fools will follow to fill your pockets. There haven't been a good reason to buy BTC till December.

400 wasn't a major resistance point. Dumping didn't stop there because of strong buy walls, but stopped there just because the dumpers paused for letting the support rise a little to continue dumping. It isn't predictable how long will they wait until they continue. A dumb blind bet again.
If there would be less people who are fuelling these dumb pumps, then the downtrend would have been over more quickly and that would have meant more wins to most involved. Because of these dumb pumps, the market is unpredictable and unattractive for serious investors. Right now, the environment is only attractive to degenerate gamblers. Those who have the experience and education in the field, know better to stay away, because there are always better investment opportunities then to play unstable bear markets.

Well, you whine about my low interest on buying during this bear market, just like tens have done before you. So, to me, you are just like those who have whined before you.
And no, there haven't been important developments in the crypto scene for a long time. Just a lot of hot air, made out of high hopes and promises.

You really don't get it that these dumb pumps will only create meaningless volatility and the biggest winners are actually the exchanges. When you win 30%, then you don't win it out of thin air, but you win it at the expense of some poor schmuck who buys after you buy. That is the reason that you are whining on why I'm not buying, because you want more schmucks to join in to fill your pockets.
The outcome of these dumb pumps is still that more people lose then win, and it's not a matter of skill but a matter dumb luck. You didn't have any data about the fiat that is moving in, you just made a bet because you had a feeling that people will buy after. And now you are trying to act like this blind bet was a matter of skill and data analysis. To me it's just funny. It's like the guy who get's lucky at the roulette table and tries to act like a skillful gambler after.

I'm not trying to be original here. When I'm pointing out the faults that others have done before me, then it only means that these faults are not hard to see. But some still choose to ignore them.

At first, we have to see the bottom and then start about talking reaching the previous ATH again.

Or do you think that this was the bottom and now we are going only up to the previous ATH?

You tried to convince me that it would be a smart choice to buy when the price was around 550. Lucky for me, I come from the LaLa Land where the propaganda machine told me not to buy.


Tools like you fail to understand that there is no fixed number where the price is low or high. If Bitcoin would have certainty about getting institutional funding, then the current price would already be low. But the situation is far from certainty. With the current level of lost markets and the general public loss of trust towards the market system, creates an outcome that the price is too high.
If I remember correctly, then you were the moron who tried to attack me when I said that the price is too high during January, when the price was 800. But it doesn't matter at all that the price has fallen almost a half of what it was then. It's all a conspiracy by the evil banksters, so they could buy cheap, right? They are forcing everyone else not to buy also. Probably by mind controlling technology, given to them by the alien reptilian overlords. Not like people aren't buying because it doesn't look like an attractive investment to them.

These faults weren't having an effect at the time when I bought.

They are stupid if they're kicking themselves for it. It's like kicking yourself after seeing the lottery numbers and saying "only if I chose 45, 5, 6, 11, 22 and 37". During this time there was only blind hope that bitcoin will be this big. No experienced, educated and knowledgeable investors got involved, so no skill was involved in seeing potential. Most of the ones who were involved then, were just dumb kids who got lucky at random google searches and got excited because they weren't skilled enough to assess the low probability of success.

Yes, that's what I thought, "who knows". Just some time ago you tried to present yourself as an skillful trader, but when asking some certainty on your predictions then the answer will always be "who knows". Because you really don't have a clue on what will happen. You aren't able enough to make proper analysis to support any of your predictions. You just make blind bets that have a 50/50 winning chance to you.

But I'm telling you with certainty, if there aren't new strong laws made to support the financial use of bitcoin in US or EU (I haven't considered China as an option for potential for a long time already), or if there aren't new markets opened with proper volume in new geographical locations, then this WAS NOT the bottom and it will drop more then 340$.

What's the point of making predictions when the main factors involved creating the price can't be currently predicted?
The only thing that you are accomplishing here is establishing on what will most hope that the price will be. Why do you need that?

Haha, calling your post mathematically analyzed, reminds me of this video and how much the "bitcoin trading wizards" remind me of that scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygfX3VAF_gg

You're one funny bugger, that's for sure.
4 days ago you were a bagholder with -110$ because you were certain that the price won't fall below 400 at first and 384 after. Now you are +10$ for a couple of hours and you are dead certain about your advanced mathematical! trading abilities again.

I think that someone could write an awesome comedy with getting inspiration from this forum.

Yes, they didn't and that was the reason why the price rose from 200 to 1163. (I didn't sell at the exact top, but at around 1030). And now they do, and that's why the price has fell ever since. But you have no clue on what I'm talking about, do you?

These educated folks that you are talking about, were not and still are not into speculating with trading. Their interest in bitcoin was and is technical.
The traders, or a new race of beings, even lower in the foodchain, The Hodlers, were and still are mostly dumb kids who are not educated and don't have any experience in investing or trading.

I'm basicly telling you that you tried to pretend that you were certain that the price will rise from 340 to this, because you are a skilled short trader. I'm now giving you a chance to make a new solid short prediction where the price will be. You didn't even have to give the right number. Just say if this was the bottom or not. Is it really this hard to you? Where are your skills or are you telling me that you acted while not knowing on what you're doing?
My first point was, that you, me or anyone else can't predict the short term outcome of the current market movements. It's a blind bet to everyone and I would apprieciete it, if you wouldn't try to act like you knew what you were doing while buying sub 400.

Alts sure are interesting and the probability tends to lean on me buying a bunch of alts not BTC when the general downtrend is over.
I'm really hoping to see more then just forks of bitcoin. Sadly this blackcoin is still just a fork and therefor have no real advantages, just different choice of configuration.
Except the demographics maybe

NXT is interesting because it dared to take on a different road, but not interesting enough yet to buy. Ripple also took a different road but it has serious transparency issues about the entire mechanics. If NXT will hit big in the coming years, then I bet that the current NXT buyers are also presenting themselves as skilled visionaries, like those here who bought bitcoin before 2012. Luck had nothing to do with it

200-1200 was the first rise that was fueled by expectations that bitcoin will be supported enough by the government to find it's use in legal finance. It was all about some Chinese officials getting excited that bitcoin could actually pose a threat to the dollar. Soon smarter officials joined in and explained that with supporting bitcoin, you actually support the dollar not threaten it, and then these expectations were dropped.
During this time the pumps that were activated were strong enough to drive over all the smaller bumps on the road. Right now the support is very weak and every small bump slows down the ride.

Yeah, I don't need proof that buying at 350$ was profitable, because it was. But our discussion was about if it was an blind bet or an predictable analytical decisions. Blind bets can also be profitable, but making blind bets will still be something for the degenerate gamblers. Even the degenerate gamblers win sometimes, or else they wouldn't play at all.

The educated folks with technical interest aren't mostly traders nor hodlers. Most of the more educated folks I have met, agree with me that bitcoin is far from being developed enough to be an quality currency, but they see the potential in the idea and they have interest in making this potential true. They aren't buying up coins for speculative purposes nor mining and hoarding. To those people, the sensless arms race in mining and the sensless hoarding is hurting the general development more then helping it.

I should stop talking that you only made one lucky prediction, but I should instead talk on how you made TWO lucky predictions? :-O
Now, this certainly changes everything...

I guess when you have 0 knoweldge on finance, then you can't see that the main thing that gives value to BTC is actually USD and without USD, then BTC would be just a fun play money without the ability to cost anything.

Sloppy would truly be an understatement if someone is actually paying you (highly?!) for financial analytics. It's more probable that you're plain out lying, because you can't be this thick even if you understand just the basic of finance.

The meltdown of the dollar would currently bring down all the currencies thats value is strongly tied to it, and that includes bitcoin.
If bitcoin would get it's value elsewhere, for instance a major wheat supplier would accept BTC by itself, then there could be a different story. But right now, we don't even have small online stores, that want to accept BTC by itself, without BitPay, meaning without the support of USD.

Well, then the account of this highly intelligent individual has been compromised by an moronic jackass who he can't even understand how USD is actually THE thing that gives value to BTC?

The main reason why USD is giving value to bitcoin is that bitcoin is lacking the main quality that is needed with a proper currency. That is PRICE STABILITY.

Without price stability, bitcoin is no currency but just a gimmick to handle fiat transactions. You can't run a company with making your calculations based on a currency thats value can change 350% over a couple of months, like Jorge brought forward couple of posts ago.
But I bet that you actually haven't ever ran your own business, so it's very hard to understand it. it's easier to just call people "not smart enough" for not wanting to make foolish business decisions.

This is the reason why I often think that bitcoiners are the scum of the earth, who are in par with Bolsheviks who also constantly "knew better" then those who had education and experience.

At least try to debate against my arguments, not just make another failed attempt to insult me.
Have a cigarette, read a book, make some notes, relieve yourself from the anxiety of not getting rich without any work or education, and then try really hard. Please..

The facts here are simple. BTC price is dependant on USD and it can be seen by merchants not willing to accept BTC without BitPay converting them right to USD. To those merchants, BTC is useless as a currency because it's not able to keep price stability. Only use they have for BTC is for marketing reasons and a possibility to lure in those who worship BTC.

Now, go, run boy. Buy yourself a brain and try to debate that.

Aaand... we have another weak attempt to insult, without actually trying to debate the initial point that was made here.

Actually yes, because JPY in turn is highly dependent on USD. Most of the dominant world currencies are strongly tied together and if one starts to fall, then it will start to take down the entire network.
When a currency has high risks of volatility, then it's a low quality currency. Merchants are not accepting BTC because it is a low quality currency. Just like it was hard to do business with Z$, that was also a low quality currency, so the merchants preferred to deal with the foreign USD because it was of higher quality.

BTC gets it's price because it is tradeble to USD and to the other fiat currencies that are also dependant on USD. Go pick up a book and read on what does it mean that USD is the most dominant world reserve currency and what effect does it give to other fiat currencies.

As long as there isn't a supplier of major resources, that is ready to accept BTC as it is, then BTC is just a gimmick that is unable to give itself value without fiat.

And more some weak attempts to insult + some weird rant that has nothing to do with the subject in question:

BTC is dependant on USD and would join the meltdown with USD if that would happen.

In another note.. I'll add my rant..
I just discovered that over time, tools like you have actually made me dislike BTC. I really used to like BTC, but after the endless conversations with the uneducated and inexperienced religious zealots, who are both ignorant and arrogant at the same time, I think that BTC would actually just be about wealth redistribution to the worse. People here are reminding me of Bolsheviks more and more. A bunch of half-witted individuals who are after personal gain with wealth/power redistribution while trying to mask it with talks of liberty and freedom.

If someone would be foolish enough to buy your turds for 450 USD, then USD would be exactly the thing that gives your turds value. Just like with BTC.

If services that convert his turds right to USD, like BitPay and billpayforcoins, start to accept his turds also, then sure. Companies would be ready to accept both bitcoin or his turds, just as long as it's converted to USD right away.

It was the main subject for several pages already.
But you're a dumb f*ck who isn't able to read nor concentrate. You just had your weak little attempts to insult, without having the ability to comprehend on what was exactly the ongoing subject.

---

I was telling if USD would suffer a meltdown, then BTC would follow and you tried to insult me with all kinds of ways for saying it and trying to ridicule what I was saying. And now you are saying that this could change in the future?!?
Yes, it could, everything could happen. The messiah could come down to earth and save the world of half-witted little brats like you. But it isn't happening right now isn't it?
Now go back to the first post that you tried so hard to ridicule and you will see me saying this:


But you were too dumb to read that, eh? All your concentration went on trying to insult me because I might bring forward some flaws of BTC that you consider as holy.

Consider yourself lucky, that you will probably never find out, on how twisted I could actually be with disrespectful little brats like you.







I was debating aminorex's argument where he said that BTC would benefit from the devaluation of the dollar.
And there you came, having absolutely no clue on what is exactly going on, and then attempting to throw personal insults at me.

Ok, bring forward the points that I have made, that are filled with faulty logic, incorrect facts or incorrect inferences regarding fact.
If you fail to do that then I'm seriously starting to reconsider on finding a way to show you how twisted I can really be.
Now try really hard, a lot could be at stake here.

This is one hell of a bulltrap. Really surprising that it got over 500.
The worst thing about this, is that with rapid rises like these, the fall won't be very rapid. The fall will be slow, boring and painful, so that everyone would stay hopeful and not sell. And the higher it went, means the longer it will take to come down again. But let's have the overly enthiusastic people have their moment here, where they can really believe that this is a trend reversal that just happened out of the blue.

I think that BTC will be always plagued with new goxed and bobby lees. It's the unregulated nature of the field and the ability to operate without any transparency, that attracts the unsavory characters with fraudulent intentions. You can only play this game when you have a sharp eye for telling which news are meaningless and which are not. Because there are a lot of meaningless news.
The personal feelings of Bobby Lee, about the subject of China wanting to root out bitcoin, are meaningless for instance

The price will go down, because this spike wasn't caused by new money entering the system, but by moving around of some money that was already in the system. And it's not a lot that's in, so it was only a matter of time when the rise gets exhausted and starts to fall back. I think that we will see some low volume aftershock waves today, and maybe even tomorrow, but it won't be long when the price drops back to sub 400. As long as there isn't new money coming in, then it's a bad call to just sit on BTC. Only thing to hope for is that the drop will be fast and not slow and ugly, like it has been for the past months.

Smaller market cap. usually means deeper falls and higher rises.
That's why I'm probably buying a load of alts not BTC, when the time is right.

They can and will change the transaction costs when needed. Peercoin was actually created to be more of an store of value coin, then a transfer of value coin. Therefor the high transaction costs.
Primecoin is also quite interesting, but by enabling GPU mining ruined it a little

Well, there are several factors to be considered here.
First we have to look at the constant stable supply. In the last 24 hours, 188 blocks were mined with 1 block bringing 25 new BTC into existance. Now we get that 188 * 25 = 4700 new BTC came out that need to be bought or held. With the current prices, most of it will be held not sold, because you wouldn't get any ROI and it has been like that for several months. Now you have to consider that this isn't being held forever and miners are already cutting their losses with selling during spikes like these. This all means that new fiat has to come in to buy those coins, or else the price starts to drop because rising supply without rising of demand will cause the price of the product to lower.

The second thing we have to consider here is that experienced investors don't think like the Hodlers here. They don't think that they would rather go down with the ship then to sell their coins, because they have no emotional attachment to bitcoin itself. When an experienced investor, holding a large amount of coins, can't see any reason for the demand to rise, then he will at least start gradually selling his coins to create a safety net if the entire project will fail. Most of the people don't see bitcoin as the holy currency of the future, but they just see it as an temporal phenomenon and a quick gamble. So, the chance that bitcoin will go to 0 isn't as impossible to them as it is to you. So, this means that they are gradually selling their stash and they would only buy back if there is a real reason to support the rising value of bitcoin. These guys don't buy because everyone else seems to be buying, this is an unpredictable bubble that can pop any second and if you are playing with a large amount, then it's hard to move fast enough with proper profits. The richer you are, the slower you have to be.

Third we have to consider that those Chinese who had legal intentions with BTC, and who caused the previous ATH, have in all probability already sold all of their coins. There is no longer any legal investment potential for BTC in China.

So we get the outcome that there are several factors that are causing the increase in supply and if there is the no rise in demand, and instead the drop in demand out of the loss of important markets and from the loss of trust that was caused by the gox fiasco.
We have seen these attempts to make the price rise with the money that was already inside the market system and we have seen the outcome of it. The rise will get exhausted very soon and will continue the drop. And the reason is very simple: more coins are coming to the market that are being bought.
You guys love all kinds of conspiracy theories about the banksters scheming to drive the price down etc. while the real answer is simple. I think that a lot of people are looking for conspiracy theories here because most of their connection with finance, has been youtube videos about financial conspiracies, and they have very little real experience with finance or trading

Well, it's a smart choice to sell your incoming coins on a daily basis when the market is in a slow downwards motion
If you got your miner before December then you have probably already made profit. But those who got their miners after December are in a loss. And we can see how much miners entered the network in January and after: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate
Most of the coins that have been mined from this period are mostly piling up to wait for better times. But this pile will gradually start to brake apart with one miner at a time.

It's funny how you phrase your question. Reminds me of arguments like "If you're not a Christian, then you're against god" or "If you don't agree with the United States of America, then you are against democracy".

To clear up what I'm saying here. I am not betting against exponential growth in general and I can't even imagine how one could do that. I am telling, that I'm not sure if bitcoin can grow much larger. It has trouble passing certain critical thresholds that are needed for further growth. Exponential growth only applies, if there are needed qualities and influences that allow it to grow. Exponential growth isn't something that is bitcoins god given right, that is written in stone and will happen no matter what.


Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying! It's not 2011 anymore where the price could be held up by youngesters and eager gamblers, who have no idea on what they're doing. You can't just draw lines on the graphs with adding a lot of meaningless numbers and calculations to give the prediction more weight. You can't just pump the price a little to jumpstart a sustainable rise  
Bitcoin is too bloated for it to be sustained by people who would fall for these simple tricks. There has to be a lot more weight then that, to prove the value of bitcoin to those people, who would decide over the sums needed to start a sustainable rise.


I really don't care about the trend of the previous years, because bitcoin was a different animal altogether over just about 18 months ago. The tresholds were different, the investors were different and it's practical use was different.

I think that the problem is, that the older generation of bitcoin adopters want everything to be as simple as it was couple of years ago, and they try to force the same simplistic view of things onto the market. And if it won't fit, then there will be a lot of whining or talks about conspiracies on why didn't it fit.
I would recommend this: try to evolve, try to see how bitcoin has evolved and how the trendline that applied to 2012 won't fit at 2014. And if you try to make it fit by force, then you're only messing up the market by creating a lot of confusion and uncertainty. This is not a precious metal, this is an highly experimental piece of technology, that doesn't have a ready built framework to enter society. Try to grasp that, dude.

Difficulties like what? There has never been anything as important to bitcoin before then to step over the threshhold to get the legal framework and instututional funding. Everything before this has been just fun and games.

You are kind of losing me here when you are telling me that you actually believe that Bitcoin could replace fiat. When you want explanations for that, then I give you several.

1. No country with a right mind will replace fiat for a currency that is controlled and owned by anonymous individuals, who have no responsibility over that currency. And who are also in high probability former criminals, when you consider the history of bitcoin.
2. There are no mechanics in bitcoin that enable it to offer price stability. And please don't try to insult my intelligence by telling that wider adoptation will create the stability. As long as bitcoin is very attractive to speculative play, then there will always be strong volatility.
3. If an country would use BTC as legal tender, that is both attractive to speculative play and distributed by an unregulated market system, then it would be extremely easy to cordinate economic attacks by hostile countries.

Fiat isn't just a piece of paper that is printed. The main difficulty for sustaining a quality currency is keeping price stability, and it isn't something that is created by itself. It is created by taking into account the available resources or foreign currencies and by regulating the flow of money according to that information. When the regulation is done right, then prices keep stable and it is possible to make plans with the support of that currency. Bitcoin has fixed supply and therefor it's not able to regulate it's flow to offer price stability. It's all about attracting investors with it's high possibility of deflation.

When you want to talk about BTC replacing fiat, then open your own business and start to use BTC with converting it to fiat only quarterly and try to earn profit with this instability. You can only start dreaming of BTC replacing fiat after services like BitPay would become useless, but I can't how that could happen with fixed supply.
Right now, when someone is asking me "Why couldn't we just use BTC as fiat", then it sounds the same to me as some kid would ask me on why couldn't he just pay with his monopoly money. There are complexities involved that bitcoin is just not able to handle.

Stop dreaming. The current powers of the west haven't even made bitcoin illegal, what they could do in a blink of an eye. They just don't care about bitcoin, because it poses no threat as an competative currency. Because of the same reasons that every merchant needs BitPay, the powers see bitcoin only as a gimmick that acts as a way to transfer USD around.

China and Russia banned bitcoin because most of the bitcoins are owned be westerners, and if the Chinese or Russian people would start pumping bitcoin, then it would mean that money is flowing out from China or Russia and into the pockets of the west. The western powers are pretty happy with bitcoin because of that same reason.


Haha, the only one that would get rich with this move would be you and all the others who own the existing 12,5mil. bitcoins. But that's what this is all about, isn't it. About wealth redistribution. About you and your buddy goat buying more manors and lamborghinis and finding some schmucks who would pay for them
How do you imagine this adoption taking place? A country just exchanging their fiat, together with their national wealth to bitcoin? So that artificial deficit could be created, with driving the price up 1000000000% and with actually only changing about 2% of total bitcoins to the wealth of that country? And so the rest who own the 98% and who didn't sell, will actually be the new owners of that countries national wealth?

I wonder if you actually believe the things that you are talking about. At first I thought that you are a cunning liar and a manipulator. But after getting to know you a little better, I think that you could actually believe things like "a country would be insanely rich if it would adopt bitcoin!!"  


A quality currency keeps it's value relatively stable to the things that are most valueable to everyday life and thats value can be best predicted because of predictable availability and regulations.
The main thing that drives the value of money today are fossil fuels, because these are the most important resources that everything else depends on. Fossil fuels dictate how cheap is production, that in turn dictates the available supply, that in turn decides how rare are goods and how expencive they are to you.
When the currency is strongly tied to fossil fuels, then it keeps relative stability to practicly everything else. Of course some things sometimes get cheaper and more expencive because of different reasons and of course there is no absolute stability. But there is the 1% of change anually, that the better quality fiats can offer, and there is the 10000% change anually, that bitcoin can offer. So, bitcoins fixed coin supply is a joke compared to the regulated flow that is in correlation to the most important resources.

Bitcoin will never be stable, even with growth. Only thing happens is that the players will get bigger. today we have whales that are battling eachother with manipulation, but in the future we would have megacorporations and countries that would battle eachother with manipulation and attempts to screw with eachothers efficency.


Haha, if there would be only one global enemy to the sovereignty of countries, then that would be greed. And by the looks of it, you are it's employ a lot more then I am
I don't actually work nor I have ever worked in a financial institution. I just have the talent to pick up things quick and even better talent to distinguish BS from the truth.

I agree that the banking sector is over privileged and over rewarded and it should be fixed. But fixing it with bitcoin would be like curing your minor headache with putting a grenade in your mouth and pulling the pin.
The answer is actually in the hands of the people, who should take better care of electing their public leaders. Because the public leaders have the power to set things right, but as long as people only spend 1minute a year, learning about their electee, then you can be sure that only hypocrytical crooks win the position of power.
People tend to whine about the government, but when you ask them on how much time did they actually spend a year to make sure that better people would be in place, then all of the sudden they'll be quiet.
If this generation lacks of one important virtue, then it would be the lack of responsibility. No one wants to take responsibility for anything and everyone just want to whine and act like they're powerless.


Actually the dollar was still pretty strong in the 70s. It was in the 80s where the dollar started losing strength, especially with coming of "the rock star" Greenspan.
It's funny how most of the critics of the dollar are actually ultra-liberal who like the ideas of maximum freedom in markets and the private sector in general. While it was exactly that thing that started to weaken the dollar. Greenspan was the type of guy who really wanted for people to like him. He set the rules that dictated low interest rates and low regulations, where the private sector didn't have much responsibility anymore. Take as many risks as you want and do it however you want, and if things won't work out then there will be a bail-out. It's not hard to see why Greenspan was very popular among the private sector and was considered as the man of the people during the height of his reign His ultra-liberal views presumed, that people are generally decent at heart and wouldn't exploit the freedom that is given to them. It's funny because most of the bitcoin enthusiasts here share the same ultra-liberal world view, while being critics of the Fed at the same time After Greenspan there came Bernanke and he was just Greenspan vol.2, having no balls or vision to do anything differently.
Most of the regular folks who read a lot of conspiracy theory books, think that those in power are these evil geniuses with complex plans. The joke is that actually most of them are just schmucks with avarage intelligence and who got their power or money through inheritance. The main thing that they work on, is the act that they actually have a clue on what they're doing. And most of them actually like those conspiracy books that make them sound like scary evil geniuses It's like the same with Freemasons, the biggest secret they have is that actually there is no secret All smoke and mirrors, so people would stay humble and submissive.


Haha, if you buy something with bitcoin, from a merchant that uses BitPay, then you are just converting your BTC to USD at bitpay and not in the exchange before. To this date I have only met one store that accepts bitcoin directly, without the support of bitpay.
If you are serious on the question "Why should I need fiat?", then try to do business or even just live your everyday life with only using bitcoin and only with merchants that don't use bitpay. Because bitpay is dependant on fiat, and why would you need fiat, right?
And yes, it could be possible if it would be a really small company, that doesn't have to pay different kinds of bills, pay employees, buy different kind of appliances, send out invoices, make future estimates etc. But even then it would be harder then to use fiat instead.


I agree with you there. Technology always wins, but that's the same reason why bitcoin won't win. It's just not a good enough technology to be a quality currency. Sure there probably will be transparent open-sourced currencies in the future that can actually be considered as quality currencies. I myself also believe in this idea. But bitcoin itself has too many fundamental flaws for it do be developed into an quality currency.

First, where the hell did this myth come from that it is a good thing when a currency is tied to gold. Gold is an  precious metal with strongly manipulated speculative value, that doesn't have much practical application. It was a good thing when the dollar tied itself more to oil then to gold, because a lot more depends on oil then it depends on gold.

If Greenspan gave the power to the private sector, then it's logical that those who are at the top of the private sector have the the most important vote on things. And every free person could also get to the top if they're smart enough and they work hard enough. This is capitalism, that decides power by fair competition and is about the survival of the fittest.
Most of the weak whiners don't exactly like free competition, because they aren't exactly competative, because they aren't smart enough and they don't want to work hard enough. They just wish that they would get rich by hodling bitcoins, without actually having to do any work and without being smart.
It's very hard to understand on what you meant on Bernanke wanting to try free money.

Ultra-liberal in this context meant less regulations from the public sector and more freedom to the private sector. Would you have wished that the freedom didn't go to those who are educated and run the finance at the private sector, but to every citizen in the country? That every financial decision will be decided by public referendums by people who aren't even capable of electing competent public leaders?!?
Most of the people don't exactly know what they want. They just want more money and power, while not wanting to do any work for it. They demand that they could decide on things while they themselves are not ready to do any work to make decisions of better quality.

This thing started by couple of half-witted Chinese officials f**king up and getting pulled into the BTC hype, that included the idea that BTC is competative against the dollar. In communist regimes it's not unusual to have officials in high position that didn't get there by their competence, but by loyalty.
It just took some time for smarter officials to join in and explain to everyone in power, that by letting the Chinese people pump BTC, will only make money flow out of China and into the pockets of westerners who own most of the coins in existance.

That is the reason why China and Russia wants nothing to do with bitcoin but the western powers don't mind.

I agree with you there that no country is taking BTC serious because it isn't a serious competition as an currency.
I'm not telling here that China govt wanted bitcoin, I'm just telling that couple of half-witted Chinese officials thought that it would actually help them fight against the dollar as the dominant reserve currency. Later smarter people explained to them that it isn't so, so any government support was pulled.
China was pro-bitcoin for a short period because of the stupidity of the few.

I have to say that you just wrote one of the smartest replies, that I have received on this forum and I agree with what you're saying.

BTC would actually pose a threat as a currency when it wouldn't need services like bitpay to enable doing business by the support of fiat. BTC is useless without fiat, so it can't really pose a threat.

I think that it's very hard to decentralize power because of human nature. If you put 10 people together to do a task, then soon nature will do it's thing and some will automaticly lead and some will follow. I think that the main key here would be to block options, where people could obtain power not by natural selection, but by deception. Violence is also strongly rooted in human nature and it takes a good violent person to be able to take down a bad violent person. I think that the main key here is to root out general corruption and to nurture virtues.
I have had an idea that it would be great if there would be a system where academic accomplishes would actualy give different people different rights to vote on different choices, that the government has to make. The internet could actually enable this method to be efficient enough. You needed more centralization before the age of internet, because you can imagine the inefficiency when an interviewer would have to visit people door to door, just to get their votes on different everyday subjects. But with the internet this could actually work. It would be great if you could concentrate the smartest people on every subject and let them make the best informed decisions possible on the subject they know best.

The cultists are finally coming out of the closet and openly admitting the cultist nature of bitcoin. That's not good marketing. I wonder, how long will it take until your manor will be called the temple..
In the end, all of the bitcoins will be held by The True Believers. No question about that. It's questionable though, if those final True Believers are able to add much value to bitcoin. But who knows, even Scientology has amassed a large amount of wealth, and their ideology is even more ridiculous. But that's mainly because of clever marketing, and till now, the marketing for bitcoin hasn't been very clever.

Rpietila, hire me as an outside consultant, who is not an True Believer, but who knows exactly how the Unbelievers think. Let's make this cult big and powerful, and let me help you to be the beacon of light and the bringer of truth! Stop scrabbling for the mortgages and college funds of the regular folks, and let's switch to more potential targets, like the inexperienced youth who have inherited a large amount of wealth. Let's stop this meaningless fighting between us and let's join forces, so I can help you have eight late-teen wives and present yourself as an demigod!

Ctrl+F and typed "solar flare" on the article, and didn't find anything. That's bad marketing
There should be at least some pseudo-scientific talk about "new experimental technology" used to counter solar flares, because solar flares are actually the biggest threat to the technological infrastructure and satellites are the most vulnerable

My employers?   I have been unemployed for too long, and it's getting old. I wasn't kidding with offering my help. I don't have much practical experience with cults, but I find the subject extremely fascinating. I think that cult leadership has some really advanced management techniques, that traditional psychology and the modern school of management aren't able to comprehend.

We could continue our discussion, and see how it's going around and around in circles, without actually getting anywhere... or... you could just hire me and let me help you conquer the world.

The thousands of miners, who have been holding and are getting more and more anxious to sell, if the price seems to rise a little?

It's funny how no one is actually paying attention, that 600k of MtGox coins are still missing without any information.
That should be a lot scarier then the 200k coins that will have an public auction.

The current Huobi little spike was probably caused by an late migrant, who also caused some panic buying among those with itchy fingers.

It would be extremely smart to buy 200k coins over the market price, during an downward trend and while there is no information whatsoever about the fate of the remaining 600k missing coins.
I think that somekind of an award should be given for this investment decision.

You wouldn't buy something over the market price, that's value is dropping and there is no certainty about the future. It would be an very bad investment decision.

I strongly agree with the last part! But remember that the exchanges are also giving monetary value to bitcoin. Without the exchanges, bitcoin wouldn't have value and would just be a fun play money. And if the exchanges can't be trusted, then the value of bitcoin can't be trusted. That is why the price is dropping, because of the loss of trust from the general public, and people don't want to buy something that is very fragile in keeping value. The 600k missing goxcoins + all the coins from the past that have been stolen or scammed, are making bitcoin an very dangerous investment. There is always a possibility in the air that the price could drop to single digits or less in a matter of hours, and there is no way of managing this risk.

lol, yes. Smart investing isn't about rising your bids because someone else seems to want them also. You calculate a number that is right for you and you stick with it. Smart investors aren't these crazed coin hungry fools that you see on this forum

The point is that bitcoin currently isn't an attractive opportunity. It's a high-risk low-reward investment, so it's a no-no to anyone who has experience with investments. If someone would decide to roll the dice and buy in, then it would be way below market price to make the risk worth while.

Haha, this seems to be the current method of giving bitcoin more credibility. "If you learn more about bitcoin, then you see how wonderful it is"

Let me tell you this, at first when I heard about bitcoin, then I thought that it had a lot more potential. When I actually studied it in depth, about both it's technological mechanism and it's ability to fit into the picture of global trade, finance and economy, only then I realized how much of an play money gimmick it actually is, without the ability to be considered as an currency, or even just as an practical financial tool.

The bitcoin cultists have this funny idea that they know something that others don't. They really believe that visiting bitcointalk and coindesk, will make them smarter on the subject then everyone else. They really believe that the rest of the educated world is just too stupid to adopt bitcoi. These are the people that learn finance by watching youtube videos. These are the same people who read self-help books and visit motivational classes on finding a quick way to be a millionaire.
Welcome to Idiocracy

Yeah
Reminds me when people here cheered that the fall of MtGox, together with it's customers funds, was bullish and marked the point of trend reversal

People can be very creative with "detecting indicators" here.

Of course it has value There are some weird things that hold large amount of wealth in the world, like the Church of Scientology and Vatican for instance, are also quite rich. So, I'm not actually denying the chance that bitcoin could actually rake in a good amount of dumb money. That's why I'm asking you to hire me. Let's rake these fools together and we can live like kings!

Yeah, that sucks doesn't it. The educated and experienced people are just so stupid, that they invest 5billion to the uncertain situation in Ukraine, but they just can't see the mad profits in buying bitcoin. If only the rest of the world would be as smart as you and others in this forum, what a wonderful world it would be...

Hey, but maybe they are worrying, that if they buy bitcoin, then some anonymous owner will dump 1mil. of his coins and run away with their invested wealth? Could they actually be this stupid, that they worry about risks like that? Yeah, I think they are stupid enough to actually worry about taking unmanagable risks. They should just stop worrying and buy bitcoins, because of the mad profit$$$ they receive!!!!!!!

Btw, it's funny to see that you're actually using the information about Ukraine, that is from the Russian information sphere. Aren't Russians more evil then Americans because they banned bitcoin? Americans are saying that talks about 5 billion are a part Russian propaganda. I'm really confused here, please help me.

The funniest part is that you're actually editing my post in your reply, so these words won't reach the fragile ears of those, who need to ignore people here to stay on the course of The Real Truth

You just gave me an excellent idea, thank you.



You know that making lists like these is a chick thing, right? Try finding a magazine that chicks read, that doesn't include meaningless lists on how to do things. Structure like that makes chicks feel safe in accepting new information. Guys are more for the simple common sense, without rigid structure.



Do you take some prescription medication for your good sleep, or does it come natural to you?
I get you, you want to stick it to The Man. Finland is known for it's strict social order and strong influence of social expectations. You are rebelling against everyone, that you are doing what you want, not what others expected you to want. It's totally normal dude.. but obsessing about bitcoin and pissing your earnings away like that, doesn't actually prove anything other then, that you only earned this money because of luck, and lost it all quickly because of incompetence. Don't get stuck in this trap, see the bigger picture of the evolution of this idea and stay one step ahead. You are on the right track, but you are obsessing on the details, not the bigger picture.

And please, don't tell me things like "Nobody has ever went broke buying citcoins". Bitcoin is about 5 years old, so hearing things like that insults my intelligence. When you sell something with these arguments, then you are literally insulting the other party and creating distrust. You do not sell things to the richer folks like that. Your pseudoscience has to be more complex and you have to keep the attention on the right details. I could help you with this stuff.



Well, here in Estonia we have more contact with Russians then you do at Finland. So, I think I'm probably better in the loop of the current situation and different perspective of the news. I must say that I can't blame Russia for starting this problem. If an government is taken down by force, then it's a predictable outcome, that there will be groups, who see how them using force as well, is also righteus. There should have been public elections, not elections decided by Rada. And the justification of defending these groups from the central power, is the same thing that allies have done in the near past. So, now the west is powerless to stop Russia from doing something, because they themselves did it also. If you ask me, then there is probably co-operation involved in letting both have a little of something from everywhere. It's wise to learn from history.

Migrated Chinese players..

I think that rpietila is dumb, at least in the general sense. Most of the people here think that he is smart, because he likes to do meaningless lists and likes to add loads of insignificant numbers to his post. To the inexperienced people, it looks like he is doing serious financial analysis. If you know even a little about finance, then you can see that it's entertaining gibberish at best. Or if you'll look at the outcomes of his predictions, or just his business practices, then you can also see how dumb he actually is.
Anyway, my point is, that you shouldn't feel bad for calling him dumb, because he is dumb. I personally also have doubts that he has a serious drug problem, because making predictions based on the certainty, that bitcoin will be adopted by the entire world, is a little beyond dumb.

If you know something about speculation, then you know that there is no certainty in speculation. If someone is trying to pretent certainty, especially in a subject that is extremely uncertain, then that someone is a useless tool.

No, the argument wasn't invalid. If you are even a little more then stupid, then you won't make predictions that aren't predictable. That will lose you any credibility that you might have. It's like the weather service would make a certain prediction, that at 12:36AM on 23.08.2019, it will start to rain in NYC. Predictions like that will make you look like a joke to those who know better, only to the dim-witted ones it may look like something wonderful.

Yeah, not like it would have been smart to use this money to invest in the crypto infrastructure (if you really believe that bitcoin will be the world currency). Like create and develop your own exchange, or maybe an payment service.
It's always smart to go into accommodation in Estonia. Especially when you have no experience or skills in the field. Very smart business decision, and not at all a typical "Hurray! Look! I have money!" project.

I was actually the one that gave him the benefit of the doubt, and I actually PMed him a serious and honest message, like he asked. And as predicted, he didn't respond. So, now I'm quite certain that there is no constructive communication possible with him. The only use he has is for entertainment purposes.

If you want to learn about his history, then learn about how he took an unprotected laptop to an sauna party, that got stolen together with the coins it held. In my book, it's either very stupid, or it's the work of an confidence man.
I don't know if you actually believe that he isn't dumb, or are you just trying to ass-kiss yourself a room at the "castle". And I don't actually care, you aren't the only one here who actually believes that he is smart. I have spoken my mind, and I think that he really is dumb.

He is not certain about that? Well, maybe you should ask him on what does he think about that.

Thank you, now I can quote you on that when you're having your little motivational speeches about bitcoin being the world currency. I even saved your post and created a screenshot in case you decide to delete this.
You really are dumb, even when you're trying to prove, that you aren't.

Calm down son, this subject is over for now.
And yes, I find it difficult to respect people in this thread. I have found couple that I can respect, but the general situation is pretty bad. Most here are a crossbreed of an used car salesman, an strip-mall lawyer, an scientologist and an corrupt municipal politician.




Thank you for correcting this terrible mistake.

You are caught in the imagination, on what an businessman should be like. Trying to act on what you have seen from glamorous magazines and television shows. In a way, you are an actor, trying to act the role of an businessman, by adopting it's stereotypical external attributes. That is why all the talks about cigars and castles and that's why you act like a chick. Guys usually go through this stage until the age of 25-29, the time when they are insecure about their professional abilities. You sure look older on your photographs then 29, so you must be an late bloomer or something.

I think that I'm starting to get it..
So, he's like a character from some mexican soap opera, because it lures in poor people who actually fall for this act? It starts to make sense now. More poor people to put their life savings and kids college funds to BTC, so we could convert it to USD and buy more "castles" and lambos with it. Yeah, nothing better then to rob the poor with some good ol' deception. That's quite clever!

P.S. we should keep this under wraps though, with bitcoin trying to market itself with slogans of freedom and equality. We should try to act like we aren't a bunch of scoundrels, who enjoying rpietila's stupidity, because it lures in more unfortunate targets.

You don't have to explain it to me again, I get it now. At first I thought that rpietila is an useless tool for entertainment, but now I see his practical value. Bitcoin needs idiots who would buy it, because without idiots we would all earn a little less.
So, I'm certain that bitcoin is an useful tool, with strong fundamentals, and I agree that everyone should buy it, so their wildest dreams could come true! *wink wink*

Never underestimate the lucrativeness of scamming fools.
It's funny how people here are only now seeing you as a fraud.
But no worries! I bet there are still a lot of fools left who believe you. You just have to keep acting like an character from an Mexican soap opera (lots of talks about castles and cigars) and there will be always some get-rich-quick fool, who see you as an respectable businessman. If an inexperienced fool imagines how an businessman is like, then the outcome is a parody, just like you.

Just a reminder for the potential customers/investors/victims, that you are trying to fish out from this forum:

Maybe it is interesting to some, but not so interesting to me.
I just hope that the prize pot won't get "lost" again. Like the coins that you allegedly lost by taking an unsecured laptop to an sauna party, where it got stolen.

I can see from the previous posts, that I don't have to add much to the ongoing subject. As always, you are doing a fine job digging your own hole.
I'll have to add that I'm also a fan of this part:

Because this part of the forum is for speculation, then I'll speculate on when you'll finally know the answer for this question. The answer will come when your customers/investors/victims will start to claim their money. When you won't be able to deliver, then it turns out that this damn evil hotel, the maid or Justin Bieber (possibly collaborating together in one big conspiracy) were probably to blame for the funds that turned out missing after all

I just hope that you won't be hospitalized in a psychiatric facility again and you have overcome your mental issues!

People in this thread often remind me of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lutNECOZFw

The symbol(s) of spending time at bitcointalk during friday nights

Yeah, it's a very confusing subject. Like bitcoin being about freedom and liberty, but the new coin supply rate would actually concentrate wealth even more then now. Bitcoin is VERY complicated and confusing, but the real educated experts know the answer, and the answer is .. to BUY... BUY... TAKE LOANS, TAKE MORTGAGES, SELL YOUR KIDNEYS.... WHATEVER... BUY....!!! At least that's what the experts think about the subject

I'm sad to say that bitcoin won't probably ever reach Wall Street. You can't sell an currency to someone, when half of it has been released during times, where it was used only for drug trade and various other illegal shenanigans. When a person has even a half a brain, then (s)he won't invest a meaningful amount into something, where (s)he has to have blind trust that some successful drug dealer just won't dump their 1mil.+ coins and run away with the money.
The idea of private open-sourced monetary systems will remain, and it will bring forward plenty of interesting opportunities. But bitcoin is a joke and a gimmick, just like the "financial experts" that hover around bitcoin.

There are educated criminals, that understand the longer perspective of profit, and there are folks like silkroad drug dealers or bitcointalk users
Anyway, you go ahead and enjoy your bitcoins. I believe that everyone will get what (s)he deserves.

I have thought of that. It would be funny if it would turn out that the ASIC miners actually do decryption? work for the NSA. And the biggest exchanges are also with bogus back-stories, and are actually controlled by The Man. That it's market and hype is all one big charade, created to actually be some kind of an widely distributed cyber-weapon.

No one is buying, but because of the fools who went along with the mining arms race, no one is selling with this price either. There has to be an important event to stimulate demand, because soon the miners will get tired one at a time, and will start to cut their losses and selling their coins. This artificial deficit won't hold up forever, so bitcoin is currently a ticking bomb waiting to go down.

The lack of buying interest in the west, creates the need to follow the Chinese 0% fee exchanges, with simulated volume. So, everyone could continue to live in their make believe land, thinking that there is demand for bitcoin somewhere.
When Chinese exchanges finally close, then soon there will be a proper drop, because there is no fake dreams to follow any more.

The Chinese exchanges have been running on a borrowed time since December, when pboc declared that they don't want to see any business activity in China involving bitcoin. Now they are just gradually toughening the laws to gently root out bitcoin without any major incident. The bitcoin market is foolish and inefficient for believing the Chinese exchange owners, on how they have a really good feeling that everything will be all right. The Chinese exchanges were just trying to act confident to keep their business alive as long as possible and to rake in as much money as possible, before you can't even play legal tricks to keep the business going.

When Chinese officials have a clear stance against bitcoin business activity, then you can predict that soon the exchanges will stop working in China. This is called common sense, something that the majority of bitcoin speculators lack.
They have chosen a softer method, by enforcing the laws gradually, to avoid public incidents where the exchanges could spin this situation in their favour, by showing themselves as martyrs of freedom and liberty.
Yes, they could go off-shore, but to the Chinese, the many benefits of bitcoin will fade when they need to deal with off-shore transfers. There is a possibility that these off-shore exchanges could be pumped by western players, to simulate demand in new markets, but the smarter western players aren't buying at the moment either. They are waiting if the lobbyists like the Winkelvii and Silbert are able to pull it off and link bitcoin to institutional funding. Because this link is currently the only chance to build real demand that would raise the price, or even just keep the current price.

Yes, the Chinese volume has been fake. But this fake volume has been the only thing to keep the illusion of demand alive. That is the reason why the market is still desperately following Huobi.

You can scratch out Estonia as a potential place for demand. At first, we have a strict stance with cryptos and income tax, so it's not a very friendly environment for bitcoin business. The only guy who publicly sold and bought bitcoins, shut it's business couple of months ago because of the threats from the financial police and from the tax and customs offices. The rpietilia purchase didn't even create minor waves in the news. Last media waves were during the Chinese rally, and even then most of the general public remained very sceptical and and ridiculed bitcoin as an pyramid scheme.

I wouldn't call it even a minor wave, when compared to the previous attempts to create waves here by delfi or other popular voices of the Ekspress Grupp. The article even messed up the county that the manor is situated in. The paper press is a dying breed in Estonia, and what you have to look at is digital publishing, especially when dealing with potential bitcoin customers. And the news about your purchase hardly collected any interest in the form of clicks or comments. And as little attention it got, most of it was also negative attention.
Estonians are skeptical and hard-working people by nature, and it's hard to sell them something with promising them shortcuts in becoming rich. The get-rich-quick schemes are publicly ridiculed here by a large majority.

Haha, there were no news about overstock in Estonia. If you read my post with full attention, then you'll find that I was talking about news in Estonia.

And anyway, the hype about overstock in US cryptonews didn't matter much either. Overstock adaptation creates more conversion from BTC to USD then the opposite.

With your reputation, I'm not very surprised that this is the best attention that you have ever received.
I'm just busting the myth that there is any potential growth for bitcoin in Estonia.  If I would create an exchange or any other bitcoin service, then I would create it abroad, not in Estonia. And I'm a born Estonian, who has plenty of connections in the local environment.

Heh, your reputation doesn't only include the yellow press, but also the educated people from Helsinki and Tallinn, who know about your little adventures.
Do you really want to bring up this subject again?

ok, one question then...
Were you hospitalized in a mental institution last year?

The discussion was about your reputation. I was trying to explain the cause of your reputation, by firstly asking if you were committed to an mental institution last year. Then I would have more questions, what's replies would probably explain why your reputation is the way it is.
You didn't respond, so one has to think that you don't want to talk about it.
If you don't want to talk about it, then don't mention my name nor say things that will raise the subject again.

This will only happen if bitcoin will get the legal framework and institutional funding like everyone hopes. I give it a 50/50 chance, meaning that I find the outcome unpredictable, when considering the available public information. I'll just wait for any new information, that would start to lean the chance to either direction. And as a skeptic of bitcoin's long-term success, I prefer not to hold bitcoin while I wait.

I have faith in the idea of bitcoin, I even have some faith in the technology of bitcoin, but I have very little faith in the unit value of bitcoin..

some big seller probably triggered a panic buy, so he could dump with a better price

Heh, quote all you like, boy.
I've been telling that the price will fall more since December, after I sold. This was from the time when pundits were yelling "get your cheap coins, because this is the last time you see below 1000$!!!"
Now, the smarter few of those cheerleaders have switched position, with starting to show skepticism. It's better late then never, I guess. If I didn't think that most of the people in this forum are borderline retarded, and I wouldn't have any dignity, then I would quote the hell out of myself.

I think that it would be funny if I would start being wrong now, when all the mindless drones get excited after about 6k coins have been bought on stamp in 12h. It's funny how little it's needed to make the numb-minded folks excited when the times are though.

But keep going! The main thing that brings me joy, is knowing, that everyone will get what they deserve.

Exactly, I have used 2 accounts before this account.

I've found it to be a virtue, if you don't exactly fit in with the crowd here.

Glad to witness some insight in this wretched place.

This is what happens when you market bitcoin with slogans like "Bitcoin is about freedom!", "Bitcoin is against greed!", or "Bitcoin eatz banxt3r babyZ".
The numb-minded people will actually start to believe that their personal greed is for the greater good.

On a sidenote.. It seems like some whale didn't like the DRK rally, so he decided to give BTC a little wank, to slow DRK down, by pulling attention towards BTC.

Same thing has mostly been going on between BTC and LTC. There was period when PPC and NMC were also involved in this little manipulated cryptocircle. DRK has more potential then those previous 3.

People who used to make some sense here, now also look like they're on their period or something...

Not whales, probably a single whale that has corporate ties and doesn't like to have a new addition with an anonymity boost to the selection of cryptos. DRK could possibly bring difficulties in building a legal framework for BTC.
I'm all for mocking someone who is delusional, even if that someone is me. Just, it's more fun when the mocking isn't especially weak.

You should be glad that they chose this picture.
The picture shows you as an stereotypical robber baron that is both ugly and greedy. This image actually gives an impression, that you know what you're doing.

He was involantarily hospitalized in a mental institution a year ago. Now he is out, drinking alcohol and giving financial advice to the people who visit this forum.
And you're writing a 500 word post on how he looks unhealthy in his photo.

You guys concentrate on the weirdest things..

Yeah, the same thing applies to the cast of "Jersey Shore". Everyone laughs with them, not at them.
All the attention comes because of their quality characters. It has nothing to do with the entertainment value of an loud and confident doofus.

I bought a lot of PPC. Everyone who feels hatred towards me, should dump all their PPC to hurt me.

I had my say. Now it's your turn to do whatever you think is best.

A big part of deficit in the crypto world isn't only held back by irrational children. A very big part is held back as a rational plan by grey area players, who run the market.
Most of the people underestimate those who actually run the exchanges. They rake in a lot of coins with fees, while their operating costs are quite low. But that's not it. They can earn even a bigger amount by playing the market with having access to information that isn't public. They have an detailed overview of their customers balances and they can even map their customers trading habits. If they are anywhere near being smart, then they are also sharing this information with each other and collaborate their trading actions. This consortium is probably the one who is mainly responsible for the artificial deficit created in the crypto world.

Most of the present bitcoin community goes by the same mentality. They dream of technological stagnation, so they could get rich without doing any work. They wish that the technology wouldn't evolve past bitcoin. The only thing they wish is to change places with the leeches, who currently earn by interest. They wish to become the leeches themselves, who would earn by deflation.

Bitcoin used to be innovative and fun. Now it's the last desperate hope for all the cab drivers and grocery clerks. The last sad hope that maybe they will still become rich without any education or practical intelligence.
The interesting things are currently happening in the world of altcoins. Bitcoin is not about organic development of technology, not any more. Now, bitcoin is about attempts to abuse technology to feed the leeches.

Luckly, I'm pretty sure that the leeches won't win. If look at history, then we will see that technology will evolve and will overcome this blind religion that thrives on stagnation.

At first, every altcoin isn't based on bitcoin's source. Improvements in security or attempts to build a stabilizing mechanism for the unit price, are the things that increase the usability of the coin.

Yes, I'm having fun with altcoins.
Hmm, and serious business. A couple of rowers who are famous for getting fooled, and a guy that tried to advertise bitcoin by promising how it will go into another bubble.
I mean, when listening to The Twins, then at first, I questioned on how the hell did these guys finish Harvard, but then I remembered, that they were pretty good rowers. And you don't ever never advertise an investment as an potential bubble. Bubbles are unstable and fragile investments that you should stay clear of. Only inexperienced fools play these games, because they prefer to count on luck, not skill. This is the true seriousness of bitcoin and business.

About 4 months ago, a cab driver told me about bitcoin and how it will tear down banks.
Bitcoin is currently also hot in certain circles, where people meet each other by visiting the same motivational self-help classes.

Exaggeration like that always crack me up. You are not even just talking about the open source scenery, but about most technological fields! Haha..
Bitcoin's development is slow and one of the reasons for it is that it's core is flawed. If you can't fix the core flaws, then there isn't much road ahead.
Altcoins are the improvements of bitcoin, the new and better models that face the flaws that bitcoin has shown through experience. Fools like to see bitcoin as flawless, just like religious zealots find The Bible flawless. Just like religious zealots, they can't see that when the core is rotten, then no matter how much you try to decorate the exterior, the core still remains rotten.

I have to agree with you that I am a leech for buying any type of crypto. The time of leeches will last until the crypto scenery has developed into maturity. I'll do my share of leeching till it lasts. I have no moral high ground here, and the only difference is that I see that the game won't be won by leeches. That is why I have a different vision of the future, and different investment strategies.

Maybe this applies:
The majority of the cab drivers aren't bitcoin followers, but the majority of the bitcoin followers are cab drivers?
"a cab driver" was a metaphor here for people who have no education or experience in the field.

The demographics of bitcoin, explain the situation that bitcoin is in. It's just as elitist, as to point out, that maybe an adult basketball team isn't very good because the average length of it's players is 160cm. I don't feel superior to anyone, I haven't met many people who aren't better then me in something. Most of the people here just aren't very good with investments. I'm sure that they're good at something else.

If someone would want to discredit BTC, then all he has to do, is to point out this thread.
The new elite! 

Wall st. will be like "yeah, lets invest heavily into an easily replacable virtual commodity and let's ignore the fact that some  anonymous drug dealer or hacker can own 1mil+ coins and dump the entire market to it's knees if he choses to do so"

The hashing power, and the "ecosystem" aren't tied to bitcoin just like the fanatics, who will run towards every new get rich quick scheme they come across. Most of the fanatics aren't fanatical about bitcoin. The majority of those think that python is only an exotic reptile. This majority is fanatical about getting rich without doing any work, not about bitcoin.

When people start to compare bitcoin to microsoft stocks and speak about the riches that their hype speculation brings to the world, then you will be reminded of this..


.. and quietly move on.

Yes, exactly! Bitcoin doesn't even aim to create wealth. It aims to store and transfer wealth, but because of it's overly simplistic financial properties, it fails to succeed in it's goals. Without a mechanism to keep stable unit value, bitcoin is a gimmick of an currency, that is more of an innovative gambling platform, then a serious financial tool.

I like the idea that it is based on and I think that we'll see some interesting developments based on that idea.
To me, worshipping bitcoin is like worshipping macintosh 128k and thinking that it will be the future. The idea has potential, not the present simplistic models. Worshipping bitcoin is based on the assumption that technology isn't constantly evolving, but about stagnation. It's the mentality of the get rich quick folks who are afraid on development and they wish that the world would be as static as their own intellectual development.

Unlike bitcoin, gold has practical application besides storing and transferring wealth.
And I agree that a big part of gold's value is highly unstable and based on speculation. And that is the reason why gold isn't very practical to be tied with currencies. When a currency is weak against speculative play, then the rich elite have more power, because then, the more wealth you have, the more power you have.

The current generation that gets it's knowledge on youtube propaganda... It's the reason why so many people think that a gold tied currency is actually a good thing. The uneducated youtube generation are the drones who help to keep the crooks in power.

The network effect applies to carbonated soft drinks and social networking sites, where it's customers don't care about the quality of the product, but just use what they're used to use. Financial services don't work like that.

Bitcoin and it's ledger isn't a protocol. It's a specific brand of product. The bitcoin source could be defined as a protocol, but you could even do that only if you close your eyes long enough. E-mail is a protocol, and unlike bitcoin, the later adopter don't have to pay the earlier adopters to use this protocol. Bitcoin is more of an pyramid scheme then a protocol, but I don't even consider it as a pyramid scheme, but I see it more like an gambling platform.

Anyway.. keep worshipping bitcoin if it's important to you. If you look at my post history, then you can see that I have talked about all of this too many times. Explaining that bitcoin is just a single step in this new evolution of finance, is like explaining scientologists, that their ideology is a fairy tale.

Without trust? Are you kidding?
With bitcoin, you have to trust a bunch of anonymous people with a criminal past, to keep the unit value. Bitcoin is even more dependant of trust then fiat.

At least with fiat, it's public information on who are responsible for keeping the unit value. With bitcoin, you can manipulate the unit value while staying anonymous.

The criminals are the drug dealers who created the foundation for bitcoin by being the first that gave it value, or the hackers and scammers who have stolen countless coins.

It's not even funny how the majority of bitcoin holders are trying to ignore facts like the loss of mtgox coins. That no one knows the fate of mtgox stolen coins. That there are loads of coins that are being held by unknown criminals and you can't know their future intentions with their coin use.

Most of the bitcoin faboys don't care about technological developments in the field of finance. All they're interested in is wealth redistribution. To switch places with the current elite that is earning with interest, so they themselves could earn with deflation. They can't see that the endgame is about making the financial system more transparent, not about making it more anonymous. Anonymity is helping the crooks while transparency would help the society in general.

That is the reaso why I dispise the majority of bitcoin fanboys. A bunch of lazy and hypocritical crooks if you ask me.
It doesn't apply to everyone, but the majority is what it is.

Unit value wouldn't matter if bitcoin would be a play money that doesn't have a unit value. If bitcoin tries to be a serious financial tool, then unit value and it's stability and predictability are one of the most important things. In the world of finance, one of the most important aspects is planning. And you can't make any plans based on a currency that isn't predictable.

The main flaw of central banks is that they are too optimistic in "printing money from the future". When their optimistic plans don't work out, then they make new optimistic plans to try to ignore the failour of their previous plans. This creates a situation where there isn't enough wealth that everyone hoped for, and the necessary wealth will be created in the form.of debt, that basically is a promise that somehow we will create this wealth in the future.
The other important flaw forn the US Fed, is the lack of regulation and too much freedom and trust towards the private sector. US Fed runs on the assumption that the private sector knows what it's doing and is ethical in it's reasoning.  Of course that's not the case, and the outcome for this is that the public sector is paying for the private sectors stupid risks.

What is the solution for it? I am sure that the solution isn't bitcoin. Bitcoin as a solution would be like cleaning your room with a grenade. It won't fix the existing problems, and it will create a new and even worse problems.
The sad thing is that there isn't an easy fix for this problem. The solution would.be in people educating themselves and working harder on theie choices on who will they elect for the public office. If people are educating themselves through youtube and  giving their vote based on who screams nonsense louder, then we shouldn't be surprised that crooks get elected who in turn hire new crooks in the power circles.

For all the virtues that the current generation lacks, I miss the sense of responsibility the most. Everyone likes to blame the evil banksters, while they themselves don't even work 10 minutes a year to chose on which electee  to vote for.

Thats the lack of responsibility, that I was talking about.
The problem isn't in voting, but in the voters. The majority of the voters decide that weak spirited puppets get elected, because their puppetmaster funding allows them to yell the loudest. Democracy is about allowing people have what they deserve.

There will be a day.. when the price has stagnated for too long, and a hacker who stole the mtgox coins (or some other hacker/scammer/drug dealer from the past, for that matter), feels that this is as good as it gets, and then he starts to dump his coins. And this in turn will invite all the other past criminals to dump their coins because they don't want to lose their promised wealth.

Most of the bitcoin cultists don't understand the psychology of criminals. They usually don't think long-term and they go after quick fixes. I highly doubt it that many of them are as fanatical about bitcoin as the people here are. The only reason why they haven't dumped their coins yet, is that there is hope that the price will rise more. This has made bitcoin into an asset, that's value has to be constantly rising or else it will face doom.

I consider it naive to think that the coins just got lost and isn't controlled by someone.
The lack of interest, that the majority of bitcoin speculators show towards finding out what happened to those coins, shows how immature the market really is.

I'm also not ruling out of the chance, that the coins were stolen by Karpeles & accomplishes.

As long as there is hope in the general sentiment, then there won't be a big dump coming. I meant short-term more in the context of this forum, where most believe that bitcoin will be used for hundreds of years, and who are ready to go down with the ship, sort of speaking.
The loud cultists and lobbyists are giving hope that the price will rise, because the price hasn't stagnated for too long. If the cultists will start to have doubts, then the end is nigh.
And I don't think that the end will come in the coming months. Before the end happens, bitcoin has to fail in Wall Street, because WS is the main pilar of hope right now. As long as there is hope that simpleton billionaires will start to buy up bitcoin, then the criminals are also on hold with their coins.

Well "simpleton billionaires" are the last hope for bitcoin fanatics. Bitcoin needs the billionaires, who are dim-witted enough to actually buy it as an investment. If you ask me, then I think that the entire quest for Wall Street will fail, and even if there are some simpletons who have inherited their wealth, then they probably have advisers to help them.
I don't think that I'm a much smarter then the majority here. I think that I'm a little less blinded by greed, then the majority here.
You seem to know it as a fact that I'm poor and living in my parents basement. Care to explain?
I think that there are a lot of fools who dream of riches but who aren't ready to do any hard work for it. They aren't able to comprehend that wealth is only generated by that actual hard work. And if you gain wealth without doing any hard work, then you are abusing the hard work of others. That is why I'm more interested in the industrial sector, not the financial sector. I think that the modern financial world is inefficient and full of crooks with low moral fiber. That thought brought me to bitcoin, because bitcoin brought forward the idea, that the financial world needs an upgrade. And I still believe in this idea, just I don't believe in bitcoin. Bitcoin is too simple to handle the complexity of modern global trade and economics. This idea needs something A LOT better then bitcoin to actually change things for the better. Bitcoin is just a gimmick that is the last hope for the uneducated and lazy to become rich. I'm waiting for something more advanced and I'm quite sure that I will see it in my lifetime. Till then, I'm not very fond that the cultists and fanatical fools of bitcoin are smearing this entire idea of financial evolution with their blind greed.

I agree that labour theory of value had it's holes, but it wasn't all wrong.
It was argued that things should have value based on the work that has been spent on producing it. What was left out was the perspective of the consumers and how high they value a specific product. If someone spends 100hours to produce a pile of crap, then should he be rewarded for these hours? The obvious answer is no.

There is a catch though. If you leave out labour entirely, then it opens a big gate for deception. Then those will be rewarded who will deceive the consumer into believing that even a pile of crap has value. We can see this in the modern western world, where advertisement is spiralling out of control more and more every day. Advertisement should be used to inform the consumer, not to deceive the consumer, but the informative part has shrank into oblivion. Nowadays advertisement is openly deceiving the consumer and everyone involved get highly rewarded for that.
So, I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. But in the context of my previous post, one truth remains.
If you want to generate wealth, then you have to either 1) work hard 2) be talented 3) deceive others
Now, with an honest heart, do you think that the majority of the people in this sub-forum are either working hard or being talented for the reward they think they are entitled for?

Just like bitcoin is advertised as an practical tool of finance, but only the numb minded ones get deceived by that rhetoric. "The cab drivers and grocery clerks" who have dreams of easy riches.
This deception is done to invite new members, who would increase the wealth of the older members. So, I really can't see much difference between bitcoin and a pyramid scheme. Can you? If so, then could you explain it?
A practical tool of finance, in a form of an currency, would be something that would be useless as an speculative investment. You could invest in the framework surrounding that currency, but the unit value should stay stable, and therefore useless for speculation. "The cab drivers and grocery clerks" wouldn't like that, because this would need better knowledge then to buy and hodl. Then you would have to have knowledge and experience on how an actual business works. But how many of those "choo choo" folks have ran their own business in the field of finance?
When the unit value is attractive for investments, then it just isn't possible to implement an stability mechanism to the unit value of the currency. And stability is THE thing needed for a quality currency. If you compare two different fiat's, then the main factor to consider is stability. With a stable currency, it's possible to make proper planning and predictions, which in turn are the foundation of an strong economy.

I think that "get lucky" applies more to obtaining wealth then to generating wealth. If you win the lottery or invest into an highly risky scheme with an unpredictable outcome and win, then you aren't exactly generating wealth, but obtaining the wealth of others who have entered the same game of luck.

"Use your resources wisely" applies more to "work hard". For using your resources wisely in business ,you have to study. You have to learn about all the details and specifics needed in understanding the resources at hand. You can only manage something skilfully if you understand that something in depth.
There is also talent in this skill and some people have better natural instincts, but work is still the main factor for success in managing resources.

I know that many like to flatter themselves by saying that they knew already in 2011 that btc will cost 1000$ in the coming years. I can't take these people very seriously if they don't have a long resume of successful investments in the field of finance or information technology. If it's about skill, then they could use that skill in a much bigger field then bitcoin, but most of those "seers" have bitcoin as their only hope for success and they aren't successful with investments in general.
Thats's the reason why they seem like the guy who made one successful centre court shot in basketball, and after that they started bragging ,how they belong to the NBA and how it was pure skill.
So, with this reasoning, you may understand why I don't believe in this "recognizing the idea" very much.

I would recommend you to look at better investment opportunities.
In my idea, the best way would be to invest in yourself. Obtain a needed skill, save up and start your own company. It isn't as easy as buying bitcoins, but it's A LOT more certain and you can have more control of your own wealth.
Because... what good is having control of bitcoin units, if you can't control the unit value? If you can't control bitcoin unit value, then you still can't control your wealth. With holding bitcoins, your wealth is just as much or even more out of your control, then holding your money in the bank. If you want to buy a commodity as an investment and stay in control, then buy something that's value isn't highly speculative. (golds value for instance is also highly speculative)

Sorry, but to me, this article represents a lot of things that I consider wrong with bitcoin and it's scenery.
The article is basically a religious doctrine, telling that there should only be one god, because then we can all live in peace by worshipping that god.
Calling altcoins a bad idea and telling that people should stick with bitcoin, just because then we could earn more (at the expense of others) is a bad joke at best. Altcoins improve the initial idea of digital currencies that are based on open source principles. Altcoins enable the idea to improve further then bitcoin, by fixing it's core flaws that are beyond fixing. Altcoins bring innovation and competition to the field.
The authors wet dream seems to be, that the idea won't evolve further, so the early bitcoin adopters could all enjoy the sweet fruits of stagnation, without the need to actually evolve together with the idea.

I enjoy the fact that the moderators in this forum are more level-headed then the majority of it's users.
I recommend you to start using rpietila's forum, if you only want to read one-sided wonderful tales about the amazing properties of bitcoin. This place has some colour, so deal with it.

Ok then, carry on. I wouldn't be exactly proud of myself, if I continued a dialogue like this for long.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or serious, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are serious. I have witnessed this kind of sincere immaturity here before.

That is exactly what wealthy people are doing - working for themselves, not for others. Running a company and offering jobs is hard work, not a privileged status to leech on others. If you run a company, then you have to have the broadest understanding of the entire company and it's business. To have any authority in the eyes of the employees, you have to know what you're doing. You have to work harder and know more then those under you, to have the respect needed for solid structural development. When companies are created by fools, who think that being an entrepreneur equals free-loading, then it's no surprise that these companies fail. These attempts to start a company, are made by those who are lazy and dumb, but they would really like to play the role of "the boss". People like that only get anywhere, when they do things like traffic drugs or win the lottery. There is also a proper amount among these people, who hope for riches through bitcoin.

Kuwait isn't suggesting anything. A finance firm from Kuwait suggested the idea. This rhetoric is like saying that Barry Silbert is the United States of America.

Kuwait or any other middle-east OPEC nation wouldn't abandon the dollar for security reasons. If they would abandon the petrodollar, then they would lose the protection of the USA. That is the trade that is going on there, OPEC countries offer value to the dollar, and USA offers security in return to those in power.
Countries like Saudi Arabia or Qatar have the most oppressive and religiously fanatical regimes, but somehow we don't see the western leaders worrying on how we should export democracy to these countries. In the meantime, Iran is rather liberal in the regional context, but somehow they are the bad guys.

This means that middle-eastern OPEC countries would only abandon the petrodollar for CNY or maybe RUR, if they could offer better protection. But if you compare the defense budget of US, against the rest of the world, then it's not hard to see why countries prefer to pay protection to the USA.

Only people, who can make bitcoin's price predictions with an honest face, are the ones who have enough weight to cause a specific outcome.
When something holds mostly speculative value, then that something is highly dependent on tactical choices of the speculators, and is less dependent on outside factors.

Another manic episode?
Another involuntary trip to the mental institution on the horizon?

Mental patients drinking alcohol and giving financial advice... only in bitcoin

Bitcoin is backed by greed, that makes people waste energy for a no gain process.

Increased hashrate as a security measure is a joke. You only have to compromise the security of 2 pools to compromise the bitcoin network, no matter the hashrate of these pools.

I've always seen aminorex as an well-spoken version of JayJuanGee.
Too many words and the lack of solid points.
I think that he is popular here, because his message can mostly be deducted into "Bitcoin is great! Please buy bitcoin...".

But I also think that this is normal in the context of this forum. People here are even taking financial advice from rpietila, who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, suffering from a bi-polar disorder, and now he is also constantly bragging about consuming alcohol..

I don't want to save you, nor I have ever wanted to do so. I think that everyone will get what they deserve.

I'm sorry if you think that life hasn't been fair to you. I see the world in a different spiritual perspective, where our karma reaches beyond our present lives.

You seem quite upset. Maybe you should have added some days to that meditation retreat.

You express sadness in a peculiar way..

How do you know how I express spirituality and compassion?

Could you please point out those words?

No you didn't.

Then it would be easy to repeat it and point out those words again, where I expressed spirituality and compassion.
Please repeat it.

Anyway, I'm done for now. I recommend you to calm yourself, and figure out on what do you exactly want to accomplish with this and then see how it's working out for you.

I think that it depends on how you live your life. If you live a virtuous life or you give in to your vices. The choice is for everyone to make for themselves, and the dignified thing to do is to accept the consequences of your choices.
Expecting unconditional well-being is for those, who lack the sense of responsibility.

You have a kind heart if you truly wish everyone else good. I prefer not to wish anything for anyone, especially for someone I know very little of. That's because I think that my wishes have no dominion in this matter. Like I said, everyone will get what they deserve and that will happen no matter what I wished for them.

Yeah, that's what balanced and open minded individuals prefer to do as a first choice, when they don't agree with someone. They put that someone on ignore!

Most of you guys seem to miss the point, that mostly the nutters are buying BTC, while it's unknown on what exactly happened to goxcoins.
The nutters are fanatical enough to ignore this threat, that those coins could have been stolen by a single thief, who would now have the power to crash the entire market beyond recovery.

Blind gambling isn't investing.

Not a bad theory. Switching theories, that are based on guesses, is not a bad way to pass the time. Sadly, it still doesn't provide any clarity on what actually happened to the coins. There has to be more then theories, if you want to present BTC more then just a blind gamble.

Broadly speaking, I prefer the secondary sector of the economy.

As I've said before, I like the general idea of open sourced monetary systems. I think that bitcoin itself doesn't have much practical value beyond the black market, but I think that the general idea has a lot of potential for future development.

I see that TransferWise has more potential for this use, mainly because of security and simplicity. But I consider the entire field of international money transfer services to be fragile, because banks have the ability just to lower their overcharged rates and kill the competition, if the competition becomes a real threat.

There needs to be action to invite the gamblers to play.
MtGox and it's bots, trading with large volumes of non-existent money, were a major attraction for the degenerate gamblers, who took out loans to gamble with bitcoin.

Now the volume is gone, together with the excitement.
Now the casino is slowly losing it's customers, because the casino managers have started to believe their own BS.

The educated get rewarded, the uneducated do not.
Survival of the fittest isn't a conspiracy orchestrated by the evil banksters.

The global education system is colorful and with all kinds of choices for different people.
Sadly to some, it doesn't offer a choice where you can be well rewarded without doing hard work. Most can earn as much as they are willing to work for.

Let's forget that at first the subject was about inflation and then education. Let's pretend that the subject was about the policy of central banks. Let's pretend that this isn't a religious forum full of mindless demagogy and attempts to make black and white seem the same.
Now.. I agree that the policy of central banks is far from perfect. Their major fault has been to give the private sector too much freedom, without any need to be responsible for their actions. It's always funny to see bitcoin zealots swear at the ultra-liberal policies of central banks, while they are trying to market bitcoin as an ultra-liberal tool. That is the reason why I despise the majority of bitcoin fanatics, because they are mostly hypocrites whose only connection with economics has been through youtube videos. Too me, bitcoin fanatics are the same as Bolsheviks. Lot's of empty words about freedom and equality, but mostly they are just about gaining wealth and power by contributing as little as possible to the society themselves.

No,no..the word was despise. Hate is a little too strong.

And again, with all your jets and champagne, you are acting like a douchebag. It's hard to tell with you - are you a douche who is sometimes trying to act like a decent person, or are you a decent person who is trying to act like a douche? It's a choice between inherited mental inabilities and issues with personal insecurities. Who knows the answer?.. this might be The mystery of bitcointalk..!!1

I think that you are doing an amazing job on being unpredictable. I doubt that many could predict these chaotic vortexes of fury, that you are skilled to create.

I think that you are right. I have yet failed to fully understand on how a natural born douche perceives life. I understand some might want to present themselves like that, because according to their values, this kind of expressiveness is considered an honored trait. But it's true that I can't fully relate to a person like that, therefore I can't feel much empathy towards them either.

I think that your meditation sessions are working out great, because you used to be a lot more tense. You have went from aggressive to passive-aggressive, and I think that this is progress. When you continue with your meditative practices, then soon you will discover that my posts have no effect on you, and you can just ignore them, without having any urge to reply.

People are asking on why an mental patient could make bad financial decisions  

I think that there should be a known bitcoin speculation live chat room. Some people in the bitcoin speculation community, are way too.. "interactive".. to be confined in the tight place, that an forum can offer.
Anyone up to creating a live chat room? IRC? XMPP? A little of Java or Flash, while still keeping the design of the website clean and simple?

TA can work in a transparent enough market, that isn't heavily concentrated. But, the bitcoin market is far from being transparent and the ownership is probably also heavily concentrated.
Not to mention the lack of laws, that would at least slow down the insider manipulation done by those, who own the major exchanges.
Because the lack of transparency and the heavy grip that the exchanges have over the market, bitcoin is more of an gamble then an investment. Doing TA with bitcoin is mostly to justify ones gambling addiction, or some could even use it to hide the fact, that they are actually connected with the insiders.
With bitcoin, the only ones who know the future, are the ones who have enough power to create the future. The market is too immature to offer any stability for serious TA. TA that you see here, is mostly just lines drawn at a direction of own personal hopes.

If the bitcoin market would be poker, then it would be a variation where the dealer can play, and be the only one, who has the ability to look at the cards of others.
I can't see how skill has a lot to do with determining the winner in this game..

If a person is uneducated, then he will relate to people who are trying to disparage all the academics. It gives the uneducated gamblers of the bitcoin community a feeling of self-worth, that they aren't educated, because they were stupid or lazy. It makes them believe that they aren't educated because the entire global education system is Wrong.
That's how you can lead fools - you make them feel that you're one of them.
In rpietila's case, I think that he actually is one of them..

You poor bastards..
After the MtGox fiasco, no one with a college degree will invest any serious sums before they can have proper legal guarantee from the exchanges and it will finally become clear what exactly happened to the missing MtGox coins. People are only guessing at the moment, that maybe someone stole those coins over time and sold them already. But this guesstimate is useless, and it's just as probable that the coins were stolen in one big heist and now someone has the power to crash the entire market to it's knees.
Bitcoin price is currently only experiencing these small pump'n'dump waves, while money is slowly moving out of the market. The market is currently only a playground for gamblers and fanatics.

It's not about storing your coins on the exhanges, but about people not trusting the exchanges enough to transfer any fiat to them in the first place.

MtGox is not a factor in this forum, but most of the people in this forum are not a factor in bitcoins price. In an outside investors perspective, it's a big factor. People outside this forum don't care about your optimistic guesstimate on the faith of MtGox coins. They want something solid to lean on, when dealing with investments. Otherwise they are not investors, but gamblers. And bitcoin is currently too bloated to have gamblers alone start a new bullrun.

I respect your doubts and guesses, because it's a speculation forum afterall. But, if you are an experienced investor, then these "little" things are The things that you have to consider when investing. To me, the market seems weak and it's perfectly logical to me why. Most of the people here like to think that the weak market is all one conspiracy, and there are always whales around the corner who will throw millions at BTC any moment now.. any moment now.. it will surely happen any moment now. To me, things are more simple then that. Currently it's just very hard to convince someone new to buy bitcoins without looking like a snake oil salesman.

Ok, let's just see how the market goes, and how your doubts will work out for you

After may of next year sounds good to me

I find myself visiting this forum just to cheer myself up.
All those desperate posts about a rise that will beging anyminute now and how manipulation is causing the lack of buying interest.
I know that it's kind of cruel, but I can't help myself. Desperation among the get-rich-quick folks is humorous in a classical sense :-)

Ok, here's a prediction.
BTC will steadily start to rise on the next week. Volume will rise steeply and the price will slowly follow. It will rise till the start of January 2015 and will top around 3000-4000$ per coin.

PPC will rapidly start to rise during the start of next month. NuBits, coming of v0.5 and the overheating of SHA256 mining, will cause a quick bull-run similar to the one that was experienced with LTC. PPC will probably top at around 25$-30$ this year.

The rest of the cryptos is harder to predict, but here are some thoughts. LTC lost it's position with the popularity of scrypt mining and will probably be quite slow. DOGE will also probably rise, because of the active community and aggressive marketing strategies, but it's hard to tell how much will they actually invest for future marketing. Ripple will be the most unstable coin that will experience the highest and the deepest waves. Only recommended to play Ripple if you have professional experience with speculative trading.

In this new seasonal bubble, there will be more of corporate mentality, and technical innovations will be valued over the habits of early adopters.
Cryptos will get organized marketing of better quality. Cryptos won't be the oddballs of the financial world, where respected financial advisers consider them as taboo. The subject of cryptos will be publicly discussed with serious analysis. Till then, there were mostly only articles that were radically pro or against cryptos, now we will see more neutrality in public discussions. This in turn will start to raise the subjects of the future perspective of PoW mining, and the practical usability of fixed coin creation.

This post was created on intent to be quoted in the future.

Here is some inspirational music if needed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVP6uaiJvSQ

Have fun and good luck!

Don't worry, your precious little bitcoin will start to rise from now on. There will be better profits from the right alts though, even better then during the last bubble.

DOGE pump was fun, possible continuation in a week.
Next rapid rise probably for PPC.

PPC rally as expected.

Meanwhile, for those who missed out on DOGE's pump:

Exactly! BTC is too bloated right now for any exciting movement.
Only thing that would help BTC right now, would be if some govt. chose to fund some rebels through BTC. Sadly/Luckly, this hasn't happened yet.

It's kind of amusing that so many of you have ignored me and I advised you to buy PPC 4 days ago.
I still advise you to do it, because the run isn't over.. but.. who will listen anyway?