Thousands of bitcoiners are going to retire soon!

Too frequent?

I can post up the code I use to get it if you want.

I don't like the idea of bots posting like this, it is just spam. The charts themselves are 99% unintelligible in my opinion.

Ban it I say, if the owner has something worth sharing, he can share it himself

It's not a grey area in the US, very black and white. If you exchange USD for Virtual Convertible Currency (i.e. Bitcoin) you are obligated to register with the Federal Government (the FinCEN Guideline).

somewhere between 1700 and 2200

For me, Bitcoin is not an investment - it's immigration.

Instead of being a fiat native who dabbles in Bitcoin, I'm now a Bitcoin native who only deals with fiat reluctantly, when it's unavoidable.

At the present time I pay for more than 50% of my monthly expenses with BTC and that percentage is trending up.

I have more of my lawyer friends starting to want to buy bitcoins!~~~ @ 500 it was a joke?... at 1000 now they want in LOL!!!  Grin

Anybody else really, really surprised by the poll results? I mean, I'm very bullish (despite not really being a trader, just someone who has a non-life changing amount of BTC) and I think there's a small chance indeed that Bitcoin won't be superseded by the time the price is $30,000.

I'm not saying "sell now" at all - I think there's a long way left for Bitcoin - but $30,000 would be my prediction for, like, 2025, by which time I'm sure that there'll be a more dominant cryptocoin around. But as I said earlier, I'm a novice to this game, so please take my comments as mere speculation, not advice to more serious players

Transfer times will become insane though if usage keeps growing at current rate, things have to be streamlined.

How are your taxes? At this moment, thats the main thing keeping me from splurging on something big.

Americans have to pay taxes on their money even if they live and work outside of the USA.

Americans who have never even been to America still have to these taxes.

It's 0% return if you don't cash out.
That's the beauty of bitcoin. It's a self stabilizing system until more than 10% decide to cash out.

I'm not good. I will take your bitcoin and your fiat  

I'm not good. I will take your bitcoin and your fiat  

and Fortress starting a fund with $150,000,000

Jan is going to look like November

It surprises me that no one see's the obvious. Large manipulators wait for negative PR and then take the opportunity to start the drop, knowing that people will attribute it to the news and panic.

Holding is not because you're sticking with your internet friends, its because by and large individual amateur investors are going to have a really hard time timing the market properly and not losing money. You will lose less if you just step away and stop thinking about it. It's either going to be worth millions or nothing at all. You joined up for this ride, so don't quit your day job.

And please, stop complaining.

Too much respect - borderline asslicking.

If that is true (am UK based) I will definitely up my investment, I already have CGT issues as it is, but one investment without being taxed on gains will give it the edge, and put it more on a par with art investments for me.

It sounds likely, since Germany has done this and the UK likes to be relatively open-minded on financial markets to support London's position in the world financial system (we don't export much else), so this is good news and will affect Europe generally too.

It's not happened yet, but it sounds like it will.  I will definitely be increasing my exposure and I will not be alone, I am sure.

Extreme wealth may be insanity, but bitcoin is the most democratic money on the planet. in a free market, wealth distribution is still unequal, but less so because the marginal utility of money is like any other marginal utility. Only with the uneven playing field created by the State can wealth disparity reach the levels we see today.

why dont you enlighten us all. I never really thought about it.

its the calm b4 the storm.

feels like short term trend is reversing, this is a slow process.

i think as long as we don't have any bad news confirmed, things are going to get real interesting, real soon.

hang in there.

so what do all the people do with the GOX $ now?

The more long-term you predict bitcoin, the more you gamble. There are so many real factors that rise probability, that in the coming years, bitcoin will die. Only thing special about bitcoin is that it was the first popular outlet of an very good idea. It's like believing in the 80s that Apple will always dominate the personal computer market, because it was the first to succeed with Macintosh. You can't hold onto this idea alone. Other can better that idea or just market that idea better with their products.

Sadly it is. Bitcoin has very little economic value, the idea has a lot of potential for value, but bitcoin itself is an economic gimmick. Mainly because of the overly simplified proof-of-work system to introduce new coins. Because of that, bitcoin will never be a stand-alone currency and it needs fiat to give it value.
Right now, with adopting bitcoin payments at your shop has no value in financial efficiency. You will only gain the trouble in converting your money. Only reason why some companies decide to accept bitcoin payment, is for marketing reasons. Starting to accept bitcoin will get you lot's of free press and it will also get you some new loyar customers among those who are loyal to bitcoin. It will make your financial dealings less efficent, not more.

With Rare-earth metals, it's not hard to find geographical places from where to extract the ore, but it will be difficult to find places that let mining and processing with this environmental impact to happen on their soil. And also to consider the growing demand, I think that picking the right element is the best store of value investment that one can currently do.

There are about 12,37mil bitcoins in circulation. Can you tell me the names of the known people who own 6mil bitcoins together? or even 2mil? or 1mil?
Last time I remember that some big bitcoin holder came into public with his coins was when Winklevosses declared that they have about 1% of total bitcoin circulation. Can you please give me other names that have declared how big their stake is in bitcoin, so I can see on who are these people who I am supposed to trust then?

It's a gimmick in finance, but it's pretty practical in gambling.

Even if the bitcoin code could be considered as an established network protocol, it wouldn't mean that bitcoin units will have any value in the future. It would only mean that the same protocol will be used in the future to create new currencies with new units.
But I hardly believe that future developers will use the bitcoin code. Using bitcoin code to create altcoins will stay in time when only hobbyists and students created new coins for fun. If cryptos will be an serious financial tool, then the bitcoin code will be history.

To me it looks like cult behavior revolving around a materialistic product.

I think this is it for me for today also. The priests of the choo choo cult have arrived to fill your minds with beautiful dreams.
I think that I'll do something easier tomorrow, like go to an Christianity forum and post a question if Jesus was in fact the son of god.

I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm not sure if you know how to code but in Computer Science you can't brute force yourself to innovation.

If that were true than Microsoft, Apple and Google would be the only successful tech companies and we all know that is not the truth and they buy small companies like crazy.

1 genius computer scientist can do more that 1000 good computer scientists. Did you even look at the Bitcoin code ? It is pretty light. You could write some 1000 lines of code that could change the world forever if you have the skill. And usually in IT, bigger teams are always worst that smaller teams. At least that is my point of view.

who is joe?

More bad news:

http://www.coindesk.com/documents-goldman-sachs-discussing-bitcoin/

"New York-based global investment banking giant Goldman Sachs has completed an initial assessment of digital currencies that concluded they are currently too volatile for serious investors."

Welcome to Hell....

Mother of all bull traps about to start.

Is this what it felt like in the 2011 crash or nowhere near it?

Can anyone draw any parallels to the current sentiment?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/business/apparent-theft-at-mt-gox-shakes-bitcoin-world.html?_r=1


Well fuck me.

Well this is sad. Not only because I'll never get my bitcoins back but because it looks bad in general. Karples will go down as the greatest enemy bitcoin ever had.

Sounds like the sort of thing that should not happen but often does...

But what about those clients who complained publicly that they did NOT receive the withdrawals?  The hackers only "un-malleated" the transfer requests of their own withdrawals, leaving those alone?

Lol, I've always wondered that too.  I just crunched the product in Mathematica and it converged to an equation involving Gamma functions.  Perhaps Marcus can share its significance.

f(x) = Sqrt[Pi]/(Gamma[(Pi + x)/(2Pi)] Gamma[1 - x/(2Pi)])

I have a question if you don't mind answering. What is the strange looking operator in your profile picture? Every time you post I can't stop wondering what it is.

My guess is the shit hit the fan for Gox between the start and the abrupt end of the acquisition of their US customers by Coinlab.
There was probably a reason why they were "reluctant" to turn over those accounts.

What is involuntary about it? It says "let's say you COULD," not "what if the rules changed." It's a voluntary option to get out of paying taxes, and I think it does a pretty good job of simulating what it would be like if we relied on voluntary contributions. The thing is, you all say that support will come from voluntary contributions, but when it comes time to actually, you know, contribute, all of you will be passing the buck. It's because it's not about the ideal, it's about the money, so stop bullshitting and acting like it's not. If the government charged no taxes, I assume a lot of you would care much less about getting rid of it.

Everyone here are also aware that most of the bitcoins are owned by anonymous people, who in all probability and considering the history, are drug dealers, computer crackers or confidence man. By trusting your wealth in bitcoin, you are trusting that this criminal element won't dump their coins to acquire your wealth as their own.

The FBI will clarify that bitcoin is a terrorist weapon, since its stated purpose is to destroy the US government and economy.

And the DEA will consider it an addictive drug, for War on Drugs purposes.
 

btw, has everyone seen this already?

http://politiken.dk/oekonomi/dkoekonomi/ECE2244816/bitcoin-gevinster-kan-stikkes-direkte-i-lommen/

After seeing the tax treatment the IRS put out recently, I'd move to Denmark in a second, if I didn't think the whole country is going to sink into the ocean, lol.

This would be the sensible stance for Canada (and every country really) to take, but sadly, I get the feeling that Heir Harper will follow the US precedent, as always.

:edit:

Whoa, wait a sec, Greenland would be under the same law, right?

Greenland can't be much worse than Canada, and after the glacier melts, there should be lots of cheap land for sale... hmmmmmm

One of the real challenges I see is getting people to trade on any US exchange. It isn't happening much now. For an exchange to flourish, they are going to need to give major incentives, imo. Most bitcoiners do not trust the US government, for good reason.

I will cheer lead any US exchange that can grab big volume. I just think its going to be a challenge.

That's for sure. Come to think of it the big 5 private banks in Canada are doing the same thing as Chinese banks. Cavirtex are asking for government legislation so Canadian exchanges before they are forced to use other nations banks.

Now, show me a post by a hero member saying he is shorting. Find someone? No one. The ones who did in the past (Moonshadow and his shorting during 2011 comes to mind) admitted they faced such losses they will never short BTC again.

This is exactly what I thought when I started buying. I traded gold and silver options back in the day to gear up my physical positions and I always hated rolling over (or not) on expiry. With BTC I loved the idea of (amongst other things) taking a hedge against the shaky-looking financial system (Chancellor on the brink...) without value time decay and in fact a good chance, by design, of appreciation over time.

It amazes me that anyone with an interest in economics or PMs or trading of any kind wouldn't take a position in BTC, even a small one. The downside limit is just your stake, but the upside possibility is immense. People talk about diversifying, usually into a less risky asset when another has done well, but diversifying is also about having a little something from the wild side, just for the chance of a moon shot. That's how you beat the averages, that's how you break out. In those terms BTC is a no-brainer.

When I first started buying in summer '12, there was still a real risk of complete collapse - that's why it was cheap. In the 22 months since the protocol has withstood a hacking/stealing technical onslaught and the tech odds are very much more in favour of survival, so the risk/reward has changed. Now the price is weighed down by regulatory uncertainty and is cheap because of the PTB onslaught. It may successfully come out the other side in which case the price would obviously go nuts, but even it doesn't there will be some market for a proven, robust, near-anonymous, trans-national, transferrable store of value.

Why on earth wouldn't you hold a least a few as a portfolio outlier? No need to trade, no need to guzzle the kool-aid or even hang around here, it's simply the easiest bet of trading lifetime.

This is a total joke. Also been watching from the sidelines and not buying into this. China is destroying bitcoin.

We have banks because even though they do naughty things from time to time, they are relatively secure whereas individuals are not. Perhaps recently banks have begun to wear out their welcome by overstepping but we shouldn't forget life is about balance. Perhaps Bitcoin won't replace banks but will find a role in keeping banks from being so overbearing.

They will dump them. The market is anticipating that.

It's doubtful that market movement has anything to do with ether ipo dumping, the scale of the ipo so far is only around $40,000 worth of bitcoin. Ethereum does have a "FUD" element about it though as far as market sentiment, because the speculative motivation for purchasing is the greatest altcoin pump-and-dump script in history, whereby they intend to solve every single problem or limitation inherent to Bitcoin with a fresh general-purpose system that doesn't exist yet or may not even ever be technologically possible.

Wow I was mistaken in order of magnitude in the quick mental math because of the figures they proposed for the news leading up to the delayed February IPO.

This seems super duper sketchy that they can raise VC-level money on a crowd sale for something that is not even guaranteed to ever exist. And that they shopped around for a jurisdiction that would allow them to do this without immediately getting investigated for securities fraud.

The only real response I can muster to this kind of tone is "trollololololol".

I'm so damn tired of these dumpers and these people putting up ask walls the minute we're about to go up.
It's like they do everything they can to make sure the price doesn't go above 600.
Sooooo tired of it.

This is actually one of the good reasons I hold BTC. Because everything seems to be getting hacked today, and in the worst cast scenario... at least you still have your BTC (assuming you keep your computer safe).

When will you realize that there are people who understand bitcoin but honestly do not believe in it?

Why do some of you feel compelled to insult the non-believers, just because they don't believe? 

The eventual success of bitcoin depends also a lot on psychology, sociology, businesses, and politics.

no, it doesn't, but also being a software engineer prevent you from being a cultist to any technology, if you don't have a healthy skepticism about the software you wont be able to innovate nor maintain it.... my understanding is that this guy invested with all he can and even with his emotions...

nope, Bitcoin is not doomed yet, I will re-buy between 150-200, I am a trader and this is what I do, the question is: you Bitcoin cultist holders have the whole fucking forum, we traders have only this sub-forum, I would really appreciate it if you go troll somewhere else while we discuss our things here.

don't fucking tell me to hold and what a bright future Bitcoin has, I know fucking good when I have to hold.

Say, 12%. It's not much, but unfortunately if works with "multiplicator": Since only about 20% of bitcoins are in circulation (the rest is on hodl), effect of new coins is 5 times stronger. I.e. this 12% inflation affects prices with the strength of 60% one.  That is we need 60% annual user base growth just to maintain current price.

That's because the price is denominated in, and raised by, fiat currency. You either have to fractionally fake users' fiat balances on your exchanges, or find more and more money to reach buywalls in order for it to rise. Those dollar bills/euro's/RMB's aren't %-based, and they're not infinite, except to the banks and governments, who generally have no need to bother with cryptocurrency, when they already hold the power of money creation. That means looking at old patterns that happened at price & adoption / manipulation levels orders of magnitude lower than now, and expecting the same % gains in 'the next bubble', is a logical fallacy - money functions according to a linear, geometric basis - it is not exponential, not %-based.. !!!

 And that, is why it's so much harder to go from $300-700 to $2500-7500, than it is to reach 10x from $116.

Regardless of whether it does or doesn't,  if the dollar collapses everyone in the west is going to be a lot worse of than before..... no matter how many btc they own

did you say good news ? let the dumps start again   .... otherwise this is really huge (especialy escrow and refunds) if they can make it happen.

Edit: after thinking more about it, it seems that they are trying to edit and change the core protocol... at the end Bitcoin wont be any different from Paypal or any other existing electronic payment system, because later they will try to alter the blockchain when it gets really big that the end user cant maintain.

good morning, so when FIAT money lose its value and the buying power becomes weaker every year,  we usually call that inflation (and we think that solely inflation is the cause),  but when Bitcoin lose its value faster than the Argentinian peso , what do we call that ?

Anyway, clearly the adoption is slowing down or the new comers think Bitcoin is overvalued and this is why there is almost no support for the price, my biggest fear is that only we (bears) early adopters who sold before are providing the existing weak support for the current price with our open orders... which is really scary.



It is the weekend, will we touch 330 this weekend ? I think we will find about that soon... 

Several financial regulators have warned that a coordinated attack on the banking system could set off another financial crisis.

On Friday, George Jepsen, the Connecticut attorney general, opened an investigation into the breach at JPMorgan, while Benjamin M. Lawsky, New York’s top financial regulator, began calling bank officials to warn them to take the threat more seriously.

“There needs to be far more urgency,” Mr. Lawsky said in an interview.

I can't believe more people aren't worried about the exchanges...I mean if Bitcoin totally tanks I am thinking most of the exchanges out there will be taking the money and running.

The only fully rational motivation I can see is if he was trying to achieve a low but stable price for a period of hours during which to secure an OTC deal in the other direction

Afraid you just can't get the panic buyers these days 

The exchanges make a lot of money. Where the money goes? I bet the people behind these sites are not innocent at all like some rigged online poker sites. and they animate the market, their business can continue. Mark Karpeles is just the tip of the iceberg.

Ben Lawsky to Speak About the BitLicense Tonight at 6PM EST and will take Q&A
http://cardozolaw.hosted.panopto.com/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=01b5be00-c8df-4688-a1dc-5302b6ca3c7e

The MACD is a lagging indicator, without momentum it doesn't mean anything... with this slow market, MACD turning green is not a strong indicator of a reversal.

why buy most of the coins out are either stolen or tied to some scammer!..Wall Street wants nothing to do with this mess!  

Care to explain because those lines means nothing in TA terms...the only thing I can tell you is that the very long term chart, the 3 years one(1W candles) is looking very bearish, it indeed looks like a bubble that is bursting..


Most of you wont admit it, but another bubble highly unlikely wont happen, and if the downtrend continue based on the stage of a bubble by Jean-Paul Rodrigue double digits are a very good possible event that we can't really ignore.

My personal favorites for BTC exchanges that will "dissapear" in the next months are either Bitfinex or Huobi. Just a wild guess.

No one? Good to know this market is propped up by a few big money players and almost zero grass-roots, organic activity.

I still can't believe people think that Bitcoin is going anywhere...in 5 years it will be some long gone fad.

In the meantime everyone and their dog will be using blockchain technology for other things.

Bitcoin was a great idea but its over...get on with real life

Great. Everyone is free to do what they like. But IMO bitcoin as a growing idea and concept billowing out into the wider world is provocative enough right now without creating a poorly named wallet and saying you have no problem with ISIS using it on a bbc interview.

Despite what Marcus says about the 'sheeple' wanting the best form of private money going, the general public take a dim view of supporting terrorism and tend to believe whatever rubbish the MSM feed them as the truth.

Except mining 50 bitcoins with that device would take 170 weeks (or about 3 years) at the current difficulty...and we all know the difficulty won't go up for the next 3 years right?

Idiotic....the mining cost of a single bitcoin is far beyond the btc/usd exchange price right now.

I don't know who I hate more myself or him. Oh mark, so much stress poor boy for losing 500 million usd.  My favourite quote was that he leaves his laptop in the park all the time and loves Japan because people bring it back to him each time .  I left my bitcoins with this guy. Yep

How is it possible we still don't know where that insane amount of coins went. Crazy.

Your not rocket science is in fact just random guesses?

Excuse me if I am mistaking you for someone else, but aren't you an anarchist?

it is good to be a bear from time to time, I just don't get the delusional cultist bulls like you, it really seems unhealthy and unbalanced.

You sure you weren't one of the guys going on about the pro-anarchy stuff? Coulda sworn...

Oh well, if I'm wrong, my mistake.

I wish I had an Australian bank, they're sellin for $400 there

Think of it like the journey of Anakin Skywalker, way back, starting off with an open mind, but soon began an ever deeper descent into the troll-side of the farce.

It is not quite so simple. Standard economists worry that if inflation becomes too low (or if there is deflation), incentive to hoard increases and incentive to invest drops, which could lead to negative growth, the bête noire of capitalism.

50 bucks is nothing for such volatile asset as bitcoin.

It can go back down as easy as it gone up last few days

Department of Financial Services superintendent, Benjamin Lawsky, who has been leading the charge in an effort to regulate bitcoin, is reportedly resigning from his position in early 2015!

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-regulator-benjamin-lawsky-resign-nydfs/

where the new demand would come from? China is sleeping, and willy bot is dead. Maybe to some chinese clone of Wally?


Anyway I think it is more likely a new recover to 600, like april

Canada? Are you kidding?

Home of Ethereum, first public BTC ATM, rich mining tradition?

Maybe you should add Germany, the USA, Russia and China to the list. LOL

What the fuck are you saying??
Are you saying some asshole decided he did not want to lend out any usd for me anymore? And he managed to do this AT THE SPLIT FUCKING SECOND we were at 382??

The article I cited does not mention corruption at all.  It just describes the way asset forfeiture works in the US currently.  It's not corruption if it's not illegal, right? Wink

in 2015, all holder of xrp will be required to submit a licence

Coercion and law is what gives fiat value. Maybe not moral, but surely gives more faith to average Joe than internet funny money like bitcoin scheme.

However, there is no feedback from the cost of production (or whatever the network is doing) to the price.  The dependency goes only the other way: difficulty gets adjusted until the total cost of the network (say, per day)  is a little below the block reward (per day) times the market price.

If the price goes up, or down, the hashrate will eventually follow, with a delay.  If accidents were to destroy half of the hashpower, the price would hardly be affeected.

Does anyone care that we have climbed $20 thus far today?

You realise we've been on page 10K about 50 times over the last 24 hours?

But a great idea...we definitely need further incentive for post-dumping and page manipulation.

The inevitable dead-fall of metaphysics. Once you fall into this pit there is no way neither out nor further away. You can't stop being a meta and you have nothing more to be meta about. The floor falls out before you understand it's structure and how it held you up all this time. It stops doing it's thing which it always did on it's own without understanding itself or being understandable by others.

Does anyone have an opinion on side chains?

so they already had bitcoin 250k years ago? ^^

can we have a special moment of silence for MTGOX and my bitcoins that are lost forever

Hypothetically if somebody offered you guys 5000 USD per BTC that you own (and you had to sign an agreement saying you wouldn't buy any more, that's it, your participation in BTC is over) would you take it right now?

[Reuters ANALYSIS] All the rage a year ago, bitcoin sputters as adoption stalls
https://www.zawya.com/story/All_the_rage_a_year_ago_bitcoin_sputters_as_adoption_stalls-ZAWYA20141214035800/

We all know that this is a dying fad

Ripple solved a problem Bitcoin had since the Gox-Fuckup. People can buy Ripple directly at their bank. No shady east-european exchanges, no problems of trust.

lol

we speak of different kinds of "trust". in a bigger scale you are right, nevertheless means buying your crytocurrency at your local bank for the average customer obv a BIG advantage against bitcoin. since the gox-fuckup the inner-bitcoin-circle wasnt able to rebuild the lost trust. as the complete management of the gox-fuckup was a disaster in terms of PR.

agree again. nevertheless i am just explaining the rise of ripple and thats one part of its success. you can obv say that ripple is centralized or whatsoever. only, it doesnt matter. in the end all what matters is which system gains mainstream-trust and gets track in the financial world and which system gains markets trust.

if ripple succeeds and outperforms bitcoin you can tell yourself whole day long that bitcoin is theoretically the better system and that this shouldnt have happend.

i am not a ripple fanboy and am still in btc for the biggest part, nevertheless to ignore the needs of the average customer/user wont help bitcoin.

Yes, everyone else is stupid. And you see everything so clearly. How great it must be to be you. But if you are right I just wonder why all bitcoiners are lubing their asses every night before they go to bed.
   

I really wish the community didn't just let Mark dissapear into the shadows, that guy got away with a good amount of everything in the good days of BTC (for years)

We all just let him go away.

Yes I'm blaming mark karpeles for this sell off. because he robbed me.

Remember how the Cyprus trouble helped the price of bitcoin?

All this trouble with the ruble now and btc isn't doing anything, the russians are not buying.

And russia is huge compared to cyprus, so they should have an enormous influence on the price of btc.

Any theory?

What about september 2011 - november 2011?

How do we know Warren Buffett isn't investing in BTC?

If he's not happy with his holding yet & needs to add to it why the hell would he speak positively about BTC?
The price would shoot up & he'd penalise himself.

Not a cult, not a cult, not a cult!

Ya. Wall Street will save us

I think you underestimate Wall Street. Unlike most Bitcoiners, they know a pump and dump problem when they see it and have regulations in place to mitigate the damage

Like, for example the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act. This is post-financial crisis

Just an example of society trying to protect itself. How many people have to be financially knee-capped before ethically-minded early adopters come to terms with the pump and dump Bitcoin is by nature?

Once again rumors of the death of cryptocurrency will prove unfounded. In an era where politicians and management consultants alike spout an obsession with ‘innovation,’ alas they tend to turn skeptical as soon as a genuinely new way of doing anything is staring them in the face! With so many analogue legacy stakeholders eager to continue exploiting the currency status quo, unsurprisingly the arrival of a genuinely revolutionary upheaval in money is viewed with suspicion amongst those with so much to lose. Bankers (both central and ‘commercial’), politicians and large corporations tend to regard Bitcoin as a nasty inconvenience to their self-interested pork barrel approach to prosperity.

The problem for legacy players is that price is only one aspect of the complex bitcoin equation. Besides, the big business/big government nexus is poor at process innovation - as those who watched them endeavor to ignore or belittle the initial rise of the internet itself can readily attest.

DUDE! Hold the phone. I have no love for Wall Street OR myopic Libertarians whose heart would be broken if they knew Ayn Rand lived on Social Security for 8 years. I believe consumer protection is important. That's all

Edit: maybe this was a general statement directed at ethically-minded early adopters. If that's not you, then you kindly piss off. Jack!

Surprised by the dearth of knowledge, marcus_of_augustus, you've been around long enough to know better

But...the ETF?

Well, to me bitcoin looks like the Ptolemaic system of spheres with axles mounted eccentically on other spheres etc.  An impressive technical tour-de-force an a working solution to a difficult problem, but clearly not quite the best solution yet.

PS: I agree by the way.

Another day in crypto, another big scam that makes a lot of idiots lose money

Paycoin and GAW miners:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2r4r1w/i_am_out/

30% of the folks in the altcoin scene are outright scammers.
The other 70% is people who blindly buy their shit lol

That's an interesting perspective.

What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust,
allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted
third party

Price is unaffected by this, what do u mean?

Yes!!!!!   Your observations seem to be very logical and grounded in facts,.... NOT.... 


And, Marcus of Augustus, how is the receptivity in your tin foil hat? 


Are you getting other vibes regarding the ways of the bitcoin world about which you would like to share with us?

Bitstamp didn't have margin trading.

Re: naked shorts on Stamp

If the 19K coins never existed, then why the 19k BTC move on the block chain? Is this a true Goxxing where lost coins are blamed on a hack that didn't really happen or that happened ages ago?   

Naked short-selling could help explain this prolonged bear market, but every short (naked or otherwise) must be covered at some point. 

hey marcus, what's that infinite product function?

Label the axes!

 Also, is this anything special, some kind of particular product?

Perhaps I am lambchop, perhaps I am reptelia, or perhaps I am your mailman or trusted friend. I could attack any time when you least suspecting it to spread information about the true nature of bitcoin and the twisted game early adopter play to bilk greater fool investors out of their moneys!

Whatever, I'll be fine
And if bitstamp comes back, which I think it will, it's no problem.

So you are encouraging a kid who is already in debt to put even more loan money into a ridiculously risky (where the possible returns are not even that amazing anymore) investment and possibly face financial ruin because "death or glory"?

Wow.

Some perma-bull bitcoiners are even more depraved than I thought.

What makes it interesting is that swap fees skyrocketed (almost immediately after I closed my short-w00t!).
The bears were making almost free money borrowing BTC at such low rates, but now it will cost them to wait for the next crash.  I'm certainly not calling a bottom, but I think we're close.

Rise MOFO! I've got cats to feed!!!

If by "survival" you mean one neckbeard with two netbooks continuing to mine Bitcoin, I agree.  If. OTOH, you mean "not making everyone holding for more than a day poor," that's sorta iffy...

This market feels broken down to me. Volume is low at these prices. Like someone else mentioned, one would have expected more. Where are all the buyers? I sense we are in some kind of fear phase and you know what happens next.

I thought the last high volume bounce in October, followed by sideways and even very slightly increasing movement accompanied by the super spike to $480 signaled the end of the down trend. But here we are today at $270. It's damn ugly with no clear end in sight.

damn i must go to work in 10min  but i donot know what to do

hold or sell?

Unfortunately we have to buy fiat and lick the facist boots each time we sell btc and re-buy lower.

soon vc money will out weigh bitcoin market cap LOL

wtf is going on with stamp

If you wanna day trade (or trade on a few days time frame), I agree with Chris here:

https://twitter.com/ChrisDunnTV/status/555278588514029569

Emphasis on *short term*


Watch how it develops.


PS: Personally, I wouldn't buy into this bitcoin shit anymore even if they gave it almost for free lol

It is called "experience", a thing that most of you should already have by now... but you don't because you are just a cultists idiots who think Bitcoin will save the world (like this is the answer to everything), Bitcoin represent the last hope for many of you here and this is why you refuse to look at facts.

You are eating the same fucking sandwich, and no, Bitcoin is not going to solve this , it might make it even worst than before.... it takes the power from small people (consumers) and give it to the richer who already have way too much power... Bitcoin offers 0 protection to guys like me... so why don't you go sell your shit somewhere else ?

only if you just bought at a$150, otherwise you've been losing your shit continuously for more than a year.

You know what.... I give you this, but I will remind you about this talk when we hit the real bottom, only then when we shake speculators and cultists idiots, then Bitcoin can improve and prepare for mass adoption, right now Bitcoin is dangerous and highly speculative and hoarded, it is not prepared for what it was designed for by all means.... don't forget this conversation.

Screwing noobs over.
Crashing to the ground.
Amazing stability as a store of value.

This is actually good for Bitcoin™

I prefer bitcoin mining cartels myself.

Edit: I am curious, what do you do in life ? like what is your profession ?

fun fact : i got my credit card hacked two times on the net last year and each time my bank refund me within 10 days to protect me.

More than bitcoin can ever do

Edit: take Bitstamp as an example when it comes to security, if they cant secure their exchange how do you expect a normal user to do so ?

Bitcoin is redefining the security measures in IT, when a single file is so important and critical, it is really dangerous for the masses at this point, we need to put more effort to make it secure, user friendly, tweaked for larger adoption and especially regulated so the scums and crooks don't find a heaven in it.

"Je suis Charlie"

Look at this goofy fuck that has a problem with using the ignore button when someone isn't acting according to his dogma. Who's stopping you, huh ? Shut your ass up and do what you do best and that is... losing money.

Leave me and my intelligent bear buddies alone.

and you are just a pig, an amateur pig, a pig that has been so long around and should know better but instead he joined the Bitcoin cult, I am sure you will have problems integrating to society if Bitcoin fails.

Yes, and that is what I meant: if someone with billions to spare offered to buy 25 million bitcoins, the protocol would be immediately changed to create them, with the full cooperation of miners AND approval of developers.

The guys who scooped up all the coins at the bottom because they caused the crash. The guys who have been doing this four times and now the fifth time since the bear market began. Heavy hitters with a four punch combination

Crash/bounce
Stutter step
Spike
Second Bounce

indeed.

The only that went from 0 to something in 6 years.

Infinite valuation

Important point from the other thread:


Not all US$7.5B (that's "B", not "M") were pumped out o the system since not all BTC were in the market traded, but significant amount was sold and fiat withdrawn from the system, which would not be possible without disturbing demand/supply balance. Price going down made some people seriously rich. Almost "B" rich.

I think the average personage will need to evolve a fair bit more before they grow out of the desire for middlemen.

Can't help feeling like big dumps incoming.

We know, we know. 

Tell us again how in your view Vikram Pandit is stupid and ill-informed.

Whats the story with 'four punch raiders' 

The majority of coins are held by unknown people, who in all probability, are criminals or amoral people of different kind. Like hackers, con-artists, drug dealers, insider trading exchange owners etc.

No digital currency will soon dislodge the dollar, but bitcoin is much more than a currency. It is a radically new, decentralized system for managing the way societies exchange value. It is, quite simply, one of the most powerful innovations in finance in 500 years.

I ain't gonna kill myself. I'm here to help you not get ruined by this pump and dump replaceable currency. You need me more than you think.

Could this be some kind of promotional probe they're going to send to the moon with a BTC logo? Is that financially viable these days? That'd be a let down. If it's just some promotional bullshit with no effect on the interoperability of Bitcoin here on Earth I'll not be impressed.

“To have an organized exchange that has the backing of thoughtful venture capitalists and investors addresses one of the main problems with bitcoin: its extreme volatility,"

An era has come to an end traders. Bitcoin will now be predictable and boring

“To have an organized exchange that has the backing of thoughtful venture capitalists and investors addresses one of the main problems with bitcoin: its extreme volatility,"

what is the equation in your name?

1+(x/3π)?

Stamp be going crazy.

EDIT: wtf is going on over there!

=3 + x/π - x/2π + x/3π ...

?

[edit]
..wait, shit.

You want me to (f'''(a)/3!)*(x-a)^3  ?

 

It can be written as

f(x) = A \prod_{m=1}^\oo (1 - \frac{4z^2}{(4m-1)^2})

where z = x/\pi - 1/2, and

A = \prod_{m=1}^\oo \frac{(4m-1)^2}{4m(4m-2)}

That is an even function of z.  Therefore, the the coefficient of (x-\pi/2)^3 in the Taylor series around \pi/2 is zero.

Is that close enough? 

Is it just me or does this thread keep scrolling to some random position when you click the next page? Seems to have been doing it since the forum went down

Negative? I think you got the wrong guy, I'm still hodling thousands

It can be written as

f(x) = A \prod_{m=1}^\oo (1 - \frac{4z^2}{(4m-1)^2})

where z = x/\pi - 1/2, and

A = \prod_{m=1}^\oo \frac{(4m-1)^2}{4m(4m-2)}

That is an even function of z.  Therefore, the the coefficient of (x-\pi/2)^3 in the Taylor series around \pi/2 is zero.

Is that close enough?  

Let me get this.

Stolfi, do yourself a favor and post an address. We'll send you a couple of bits. You will look too silly (to yourself and others) if you end up not getting any BTC before the masses do.

Yeah I'm tempted to take some profit here. Not bad going for just over 24 hours work.

Money isn't going to come overnight. I do expect this pull back again, but with news like this, I do wonder if its time to stop worrying about making profits on trades and just hoarding.

Sorry, I could not get beyond that.  However,  I found a formula (attributed to Euler) for sin(x) as an infinite product

sin(\pi z) = \pi z \prod_{n=1}^\oo (1 - \frac{z^2}{n^2})

It looks similar enough to your function shifted and scaled as before

f(\pi (z + 1/2)) = A g(z)

where z = x/\pi - 1/2,

A = \prod_{m=1}^\oo \frac{(4m-1)^2}{4m(4m-2)}

and

g(z) = \prod_{m=1}^\oo (1 - \frac{4z^2}{(4m-1)^2})

Maybe you can get some inspiration out of it...

That is pretty bad taste, even for you.

China wakes up in 3

Edit, it's actually 530am now

True enough. I'm in a similar position. The only reason I'm margin short right now is so that I'll have the ability to buy more when and if it  drops, but that means no sleep tonight. No fucking way I'm sleeping margin short. There could easily be surprises in either direction, but the downside looks much more likely.

There will be a raft of good news coming out of the USA as the VC investments of 2013/4 start coming online.

I doubt staying in USD is the best strategy when the price will be trending up.

PayPal have pretty much laid down the path of travel. They will be enabling Bitcoin globally.  Actually, everyone apart from Apple will be offering non-credit card competition via Bitcoin in the coming year or two.

The direction of travel is mostly going to be north, with the odd attempt to short for short term profits.

Another thing about the latest research on the 1 percent from Rank and Hirschl: While one in eight Americans might visit the 1 percent for a year, only one in a hundred stay there for a decade or more.

I find the subconscious suggestion in this statement interesting.

For everyone who bought bitcoins in the past 14 months, I'm sorry for your loss.

think its safe to sleep in btc? :/

I see it as a stable point
That said depends on the sentiment but I agree with you the bearish despair seems to have chilled out for now
Whether it turns to bullish sentiment or remains in neutral is going to be the interesting thing about this market for a while.

Fuck sake... should I buy a little (you know for savings not trading) looks like its a steady rise?

Nice to see that BTC continues its pattern of being a pump and dump scheme - just like Bill Gates said But its a lot of fun! But not the future of anything, just trash basicly.

China is really clamping down on the net....

http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/chinese-netizens-squirm-as-party-tightens-grip-on-internet-20150130-131plo.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/world/asia/china-clamps-down-still-harder-on-internet-access.html
http://www.zdnet.com/article/vpn-blocks-exist-to-keep-internet-healthy-chinese-official
http://time.com/3685380/china-internet-censorship/


 

It's pretty bad. I'm not going to post any TA unless newbie jail is brought back. This is the most popular thread on the forum and quality posts get shit on day in and day out from these shills with nothing to contribute.

Coinbase trouble, or professional trolling?
http://www.cryptoarticles.com/crypto-news/coinbase-inc-under-investigation-regarding-misleading-information-about-their-bitcoin-exchange

You would come across a lot better if you dropped the insulting attitude BTW

Luckily, on a bitcoin forum, it is highly unlikely anyone would have serious savings in Brazilian reals.

How did you get this figure of cost of production?

The actual cost is around 90$, for some miners even less.

Easily resolved by lowering the difficulty. Next.

In the 2015 Super Bowl ticket market, short selling has again played a major role, but this time around, anyone that shorted the market is now looking at losses of as much as $8,000 for each ticket.

Better sell now, else you will be panicking below 200. Btc is very bearish, just look at the candlesticks - hammers on daily, 3-day, weekly and nobody is buying. Why the hell do you think we are again at 200 and not above 300?

I have no idea what is happening right now.

Next stop 150, next stop 120.                                                             Next stop: Moon

Bears you need to down tools & buy.
Buy now.

Buy whilst you still can.

Quick, get your fiat into exchanges & buy.

This is worse than waiting for the bass to drop.

Same can be said in reverse with the bear cultists... whats your point?

Even if it is a very elaborate troll, it doesn't mean that there aren't real marriages being ruined by bitcoin.


No, his fault is spending her money along with his, investing in something as volatile as bitcoin out of greed (new home! kids college fund!), and going full-blown cultist in completely inappropriate settings.

No telling how bad off the permabulls would be in this war without General William Joseph Allen to guide them.

"Four punch raiders, incoming! Prepare the counterattack!"

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19244/central-bank-italy-declares-virtual-currency-exchanges-not-subject-aml-requirements/

Never thought Italians would be first  

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-mining-firm-cointerra-files-chapter-7-bankruptcy/

"CoinTerra has between $10m and $50m in assets, with liabilities within the same range, according to court documents.
CoinTerra stated that it would be unable to repay unsecured investors and named hundreds of creditors in its filing, which was submitted on 24th January."

BULLISH AS FUCK

this forum is full of no idea perma bull bagholders...

So, as more coins are mined, we can keep hitting lower lows without reaching a lower 'market cap' ... interesting, never thought about it like that before

Why isn't it being used this way yet??

I'm starting to think it's either a new resonance of freedom of thought and innovation, or another few hundred years of the dark ages.

I fully expect to see one or the other outcome within my lifetime. (Next 50 years)

looks like there is still plenty of cash in the sidelines