Hey guys. I'm from Europe and I want to boycott Gox. Not a trader, just interested in buying some btc here and there. Which exchange do you recommend?

He did achieve the shutting up/disappearance of said noobtroll though, for which I applaud him. Other than that I think that was pretty stupid   he did mention though that he was drunk at that time. People on drugs do weird things.

wow huuuuge buy just pushed the price up 8$  

maybe a 2K BTC buy just seems big to noobish little me

by the way since I'm posting already, I want to publicly praise DougTanner for being a friendly, on-topic beacon of light in the shitstorm this topic has been devolving into lately. 

you're right But randomly watching clarkmoody and witnessing one of these huge moves always makes my heart beat faster

can you get custom license plates in Thailand? If so, you should get a btc related one if you end up buying the Ferrari. something like btc4ever or LOLfiat or some Thai equivalent Imagine the walking (driving) ad for btc you would become

This is a very important aspect of Bitcoin. It forces institutions who would want to collect taxes via Bitcoin into honesty, because everybody can see their transactions. Also as mentioned, it takes away the option of the hidden inflation tax from them.

In my opinion Bitcoin has such attributes, which make it destined to be attacked by governments and their financial backers. At the same time it's built with the anticipation of such attacks in mind and promises not to be subject to control from any one entity. I say it shall be a grand fight!

Looks to me that since the Bitcoin community hasn't been able to do anything about the huge centralization embodied by Gox the US government has now kindly stepped in and is about to force to community to come up with more decentralized solutions! Thanks uncle Sam, you wise old bastard! You know that us talking monkeys come up with the best tricks when under pressure.

Yes, of course. And I suppose you also know what's best for those people in the mainstream and what they really want  

Well here you have an answer, just in case you were wondering why nobody likes you around here

I have figured out Coinseekers problem.

It's not that he's stupid (he's not) or a deliberate troll. The hint is right below his avatar. Judging by how much love and respect he's showing other posters on this forum I can only infer that he hates himself with a vengeance. Poor guy, has to resort to using an online forum to make himself feel better, we should all be very supportive of this broken soul!

Also it's amusing to poke fun at people who take themselves too seriously and/or think they're smarter than everyone else, or have delusions of "accuracy" and "objectivity"

I often wonder why it is that some violently fight the idea of any aspect of human interaction being unregulated by some sort of central authority. Why is that? Not being able to conceive of such arrangements working due to lack of imagination? General mistrust of people? Sincere belief that everything under the sun just works out better if we have a single set of rules enforced by deadly force? Honestly, I don't really get it.

I'm happy to see a concept like Bitcoin coming along and (so far) proving that free human interaction is not only possible, but desirable.

Also to all those people wanting Bitcoin (and everything else) to submit to regulation: there is a number of people (like me) who desire freedom from regulation. Due to moral/ethical considerations or due to their conviction that plurality of options and freedom to experiment ultimately bring about better results and stability. This number keeps growing with every disaster brought about by regulation and central planning. Perhaps one day we will reach a critical mass of people desiring freedom and being willing and able to take responsibility for it.

As long as there is no choice and no option for people not wanting to submit, all we really have tyranny.

Agreed. The very next poster provides a case in point:


A common reaction. People often imagine that without centrally enforced rules, everything would instantly dissolve into a dog-eat-dog war zone with people killing other people at random, looting, raping and taking a shit in front of your door (someone once provided this as an argument in this very same discussion with me..). As if the only thing stopping people from acting this way right now is the looming threat of imprisonment and punishment by the legal system. Divide and conquer still seems to be working quite well.

Have you ever noticed that laws are there for OTHER people? As in the laws are here to prevent other people from killing me and stealing my stuff. Not to prevent me from doing the same. I'm a decent fellow. It's those other bastards...  

I'm fighting an uphill battle saying this, but:

I wonder how much a situation in which a society used to (and arguably dependent on) a single set of enforced rules suddenly finds itself without the means to enforce those rules can be compared with a situation in which a society organically grows into a state without said enforced rules.

The point most people seem to overlook in a discussion like this is that people are so hooked on the idea of having rules that if you take away the current rules, they will immediately get to work on new sets of rules. The benefit I see there is in a possible plurality of rule-sets as opposed to a single set of rules for all. In other words voluntary choices instead of forced submission. Not a very popular idea, I know, but I still imagine that having multiple options and no monopoly on the legal use of force would be very beneficial for everybody involved (maybe except for sociopaths wanting to control everybody).

btw after first reading that article a while ago I decided to load up on batteries...just in case

hmmm a couple of points to think about (mostly rephrasing things Its about sharing has said):

1. an argument for central authority enforcing rules is that it can theoretically protect people from murder, theft etc. by enforced legislation. (I say this, because as it turns out people in positions of power have little incentive to actually do so) In my eyes this is debatable but I'm willing to grant that this may be so. Now let's look at the other side of the coin: what about crimes of theft and murder perpetrated by those very same authorities? Concentration camps, Gulags, Ethnic cleansing, wars for profit, devaluation of currency, outright confiscation of gold and/or currency, taxation - all those are impossible to commit by individuals, you need an institution like the state for this. With this argument I think the proposed remedy is much worse than the illness it is supposed to cure.

2. another argument for central authority enforcing rules boils down to references to "human nature" - usually portraying it as base, savage, selfish and violent. I see several problems with this: first of all "human nature" might be much more variable than we have been led to believe by living in a relatively stable cultural environment. People have been known to live in monogamy and polygamy for example. Which one is human nature? Human nature gets shaped mostly by genetics and environment. And I say that environment has a much bigger impact on your behavior and values than it generally gets credit for. So referring to "human nature" as something fixed means overlooking historical diversity as well as the potential for further evolution.

3. connected to the human nature argument is a point which Its about sharing has touched on: darwinism and survival of fittest. "natural order" usually gets associated with "survival of the fittest". This is an incomplete picture, though. If you study the behavior of various biospheres you will see your fair share of predators depending on their individual strength to survive. But the more developed and complex the biosphere, the more organisms you will find, who don't fall into this category, but rather ensure their survival by being essential to that biospheres functioning. In other words, survival of the fittest (competition) is a valid evolutionary strategy but so is survival of the most valuable (cooperation). Let's not forget this. Viewed through this lens a potential lawless society starts looking less scary.

4. we don't really know. This is important to fully realize. I don't know if and how a society without a central governing authority would work in todays technological and cultural environment. I freely admit that. But neither do YOU. Statements like the following:


simply assume perfect knowledge about elusive concepts like human nature and what exactly would happen. I view this as arrogant and foolish at best.

But as has been mentioned - our reality grid gets shaped by the culture we live in, one could say that culture is our collective operating system. Today most people don't know how to program their own operating system. Most of them aren't even aware that such a thing might exist, they simply accept whatever prevalent cultural norms there are as "reality". Their operating system and thus view or reality gets to be programmed by media and public schools and it's easy to see how these sources of programming might have an interest in preserving the status quo.

5. Because there always have to be 5 points (see The law of fives for clarification): In the end it's in our hands how we want to live our lives. If you want to submit to a central authority dictating how to live different aspects of your life for whatever reason (maybe you feel insecure about your own sense of judgement, are afraid of deviating from norms because of ostracism or just don't like to take responsibility) that's your choice. but PLEASE for the love of everything that is dear to you: let those who don't want a life like that be FREE to not join your game. As it turns out there's a big chance that the next major inventions and technological improvements will come exactly from these people.

2 points to be made here:

1. in a situation like this, the government couldn't help that guy either.
2. how do we end up in situations like this? I would argue that usually it's precisely due to some government fatally mismanaging the economy and available resources. I mean once you're in a situation like today, where the government takes about half of your income from you, the apocalypse is only a tiny step away. Hint: governments are really bad at managing resources - I wonder if that has something to do with them being monopolies and all

Since you're asking me directly like this, let me present you with my preferred option which you evidently haven't thought of yet:

...................*drumroll*......................

Opening my mouth and saying "hey dude I'm really hungry and in a bad shape. Care to share some of your food with me?"

Haha coinseeker, there he goes again talking about how he lives in the "real" world and about "winning" an internet argument

Sitting in Berlins Room 77 and enjoying a Pizza and beer. Hoping the price doesn't crash before I pay my bill. 

hey hlynur your rant was appreciated at least in front of this particular computer screen! Have another beer! 

Attending university is one of the best ways to get brainwashed by the status quo 

I was gonna say something more on this topic but then I remembered it has all been said much more eloquently than I could say it already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg

he does seem to be a one-trick monkey always managing to insert his belief about Silk Road being 90% of the Bitcoin economy into any sort of discussion. Wonder why it's so dear to him?

Sort of like Coinseeker whose basic agenda seems to be proclaiming his opinions (aka. rationality and logic) superior to disagreeing opinions (aka. fanatical ideology).

Did I just turn myself into a one-trick monkey by making fun of Coinseeker for nth time now? Oh the irony I can't handle it...

What exactly do you mean by this:

Yes I disagree. What do you expect from someone named Discordia?  

What about monetary systems based on the gold standard which have provided stable prices for decades and centuries (punctuated by outburst of price inflation during wartime episodes mostly)? What about a system based on Bitcoin? I dare say most monetary systems are not inflationary...it's just that currently the fiat monetary system (which is inflationary) is ubiquitous.

Oh there might be some confusion about inflation. It helps when we clarify whether we're talking about monetary inflation (which is easy to pinpoint by definition) or price inflation (which is harder to distinguish and even harder to describe how it works).

Since I find monetary inflation to be a much more useful concept than price inflation, that's what I'm looking at. And what I see is that Quantitative Easing = adding to the money supply = monetary inflation. Feel free to disagree.

If Libertarians were consistent, they'd be Anarchists

to clarify:

Libertarians: let's have just a little bit of cancer
Republicans, Democrats, Fascists, Communists: We love cancer. Let's have more of it!
Anarchists: WTF do not want

Don't be sorry. A lot of people can learn a lot from your insights into political/economic history & philosophy. Please carry on.

amazing lol 

you have discovered a new formation in TA - the...dog lol. Is this bullish or bearish?

 

Seems a lot of people like to over-analyze why they like to get drunk...luckily I come from a country where we don't need a reason, just an occasion 

I approve of this tangent. I am pretty much convinced that the choice of a society about which drugs to ban and which drugs to openly endorse gives away its intentions very well. Also the drugs the society uses are directly correlated to the value-systems of said society. Not sure if as a cause, or an effect, though.

Endorsed drugs today include caffeine and sugar (to keep you energized and productive at work), nicotine (to help you cope with the stress-levels induced by being high on sugar and caffeine all the time) and alcohol (to help you release the pent up tension from work and help you forget how shitty your life is). Banned drugs include Cocaine (more profitable to traffic it when it's illegal), Marijuana (which threatens a lot of established cartels in pharmacology and medicine. It also makes you less likely to work very hard, especially when also realizing that the work is not worth doing) and hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms etc. (which dissolve ordinary social conditioning and support values antagonistic to the establishment).

A pretty good book about human history in terms of which culture has been using which drugs and what it meant for that culture is "Food of the Gods" by Terence McKenna. Recommended!

As said, just parroting St. Terence McKenna. Still worth repeating though, as this point of view gets overlooked too commonly.

Do you happen to have any personal experience with that, Spaceman_Spiff?

I Wish Terence McKenna was still alive today. As far back as 1993 - 1994 can he be heard raving about what drastic social changes this new thingy called "the world wide web" would bring about. Listening to some of what he had to say 20 years ago it sounded like he had a pretty clear picture in mind of how things like google, wikipedia, facebook, e-commerce etc. might emerge. Wonder what he would have to say about Bitcoin...

I like this idea. If someone would set up a dedicated machine for this purpose, I'd be willing to send some satoshis that way for maintenance costs

Now maybe the price can chill out for a while at 420. Get it? 

The spread between Gox and Stamp is getting ridiculous. Even in % terms.

OK so I go out to buy some sandwiches from subway with bitcoin (hooray!), stay for a couple of beers & whiskey, come home and see this? WTF Bitcoin I am drunk and I have no idea what just happened. Did we just "crash" after going up like 25% in 3 hours or what? WTF IS HAPPENING? LOL still great fun to watch

LoL seriously this is Bitcoin. Where else can you just go out for 6 hours and come back to crazy shit like this? I mean I was concerned with paying with btc at a subway store where the guys knew nothing about bitcoin, explaining a bunch of people about btc (I'm getting SPAMMED today by my acquaintances wanting to know about btc), talking about crypto & litecoin in general with some guys and I come back and I see this....hahaha I mean whatever happened today is just too funny to be true, I LOVE BITCOIN, so much fun just watching it. btw I'm too fucking drunk to read the gazillion new pages of the wall observer, can someone give me tl;dr cliffs of what went on?

LoL I'm ranting and raving about how Bitcoin is the biggest technological invention of the 21st century all the time and I've had my fair share of people asking about it but in the last couple of days it's gotten way out of line, just everybody spamming me about btc lol this should be the top of a bubble like when your taxi driver is talking about btc but Bitcoin just doesn't give a fuck haha this might just be the beginning, GOD I wish they accepted btc for drinks everywhere, I would die very soon haha.

Thanks for the info. I kind of expected this senate hearing to go "better than expected" because as of lately I've been totally shocked by governments around the world actually showing SIGNS OF INTELLIGENCE, meaning that they don't want to fight btc, but instead are trying to embrace it in an awkward kind of way. Wow the government showing signs of intelligence is like the biggest shock in my life so far haha  

LOL I play poker for a living but my net worth has never fluctuated as much as in the last 24 hours

Actually I realized how well-prepared I am for a simple buy & hold strategy while emotionally detaching myself from the variance thanks to poker Watching this unfold is so much fun.

or smaller transactions might happen on alt-coins specifically designed to be feasible for microtransactions.

But first Bitcoin must prove to the world, that the concept of crypto currencies can be trusted and is feasible and while that is going on, Bitcoin will also be usable for small transactions, like paying 3$ worth of coffee, because the price is still around 600USD/BTC instead of 40 000USD/BTC. When whe reach THAT point (which implies that Bitcon has succeeded in proving the above mentioned) small transactions might not be feasible, unless the protocol is adjusted.

You have my blessing! Go forth and trade, lest ye be traded!

Pro-tip: the law of fives is an excellent guide to reality, but it can not, I repeat can not hold a candle to the all mighty nexus of chaotic synchronicity, that is the number 23. Of course, 23, 2 + 3 = 5. So watch out for Fridays. And the 23rd day of the month. If it falls on a Friday you can expect pure chaos. And what if it Friday the 23rd is in May, the 5th month of the year...like NEXT YEAR?

Then you should come here:

http://goo.gl/maps/clEVJ

47 (23,5*2) latitude, 23,5 longitude for the first ever worldwide discordian celebration!

Haha someone really put a 3000BTC buy wall at 505E on kraken 

Just got to use the Lamassu Bitcoin ATM. MUCH easier to use than a regular ATM I would say. Just tap the screen, scan your address and keep feeding it fiat until you feel you've ridden yourself of enough of the stuff. Then tap again to send transaction. No palm scanners, yay.

AFAIK the ATM in Vancouver doesn't dispense fiat, only BTC, same as Lamassu. We need ones who can do fiat -> BTC and BTC -> fiat. And put them into every major airport  

why is my quote in your sig? Just curious...that has to be the last thing I posted here which I would ever expect to get put into someones sig  

btw I paid for 10EUR worth of subway sandwiches at the peak of the run-up on Monday. Gotta love how I bought those particular coins earlier this year so I kind of think of it as having paid about 1EUR for the whole deal

But in fact, I paid around 0.02btc. For three sandwiches and a bottle of soda. Can you believe that? People in 2016 will cringe  

This is very risky, yet the odds seem to be good. For me, going into any sort of debt, or obligation to get BTC (or anything else, which I don't need for immediate survival) is unacceptable, so I wouldn't do it.

I would, however, throw all the free resources, which I can afford to lose without the loss causing financial or emotional damage, at BTC

Alternatively, just treat BTC like an experimental savings account. Keep saving a part of your income in it and ride the choo-choo train!

Don't forget that BTC has other uses than being a currency. It is a store of value and an indestructible ledger capable of storing and transferring ownership rights without counter party risks!

Might be that we will see an alt-coin stepping in to fulfill the role of currency for daily transactions, with BTC acting as the main referent of value and a store of said value. Or BTC could evolve.

I wonder what happened to your "BTC value is 90% Silk Road" mantra  

Enjoying your bullishness, which is quite clearly rooted in a deep understanding of the broad picture of what is happening.

And thanks for sharing so much quality material. That kind of quality is deserving of its own thread - it will just be buried by memes, random predictions and little flame wars here. Actually now that I think about it I would enjoy another kind of observer thread - not a wall observer thread focused on trading and daily price movements, but a more laid back, philosophical observer of the whole Bitcoin economy focused on longer time frames and broad implications.

Also, praised be the current bearishness of rpietila, I enjoy that perspective as well.


Yes indeed, please do this! I am but a simple buy & hold bull and I don't do trading, but I feel like many here would benefit from your experience and clarity of understanding & expression.


Do you suppose this might have something to do with why you turned out to be an independent thinker?

Hey cool, all of these already apply to me! I do own a TV, though. But it's being used as a monitor for a PC.

finally some TA which makes sense!

Stamp now higher than Gox for quite some time. It's indeed a new paradigm. 

Quoted for making me laugh a bit too much  

So do we get the dead cat bounce now?

Bolded part might be on to something. Bitcoin is by design encouraging saving and thus attracts people who would like to save. (But have only shitty ways of doing so thanks to the inflationary monetary system  )

You just provided me with a new way to reply to people saying Bitcoin is a bubble. Thank you  

The Universe is a Ponzi scheme with no intrinsic value. It is not backed by anything.

This is brilliant 

HOLY SHIT YES!  

Not sure if intentional typo, but henceforth I shall refer to the act of exchanging btc for fiat and vice versa on a daily basis as DAY TARDING  

Me, I'm no day tarder, I'm just hodling.

Can we make this the Bitcoin rally anthem?

Choo Choo Train

This song needs to get Zhou Tonged. I can already hear it in my head. "Like a train, Bitcoin rallying up again" 

Goat, your Lambo is being shipped right now. They had to save on the shipping though because they didn't use bitpay 

The weather in Hamburg is clearly a trailing indicator of BTC price, sort of like google search hits  


Feeling happy that I did my part in creating a meme by pointing out this funny typo  

still HODLING

Don't fall prey to the illusion of the Great Conspiracy! (The idea that "there are no conspiracies") you're too smart for that!

btw if I were president I would ban monogamy 

Is there anyone you haven't ignored yet?

You make me blush 

I'm interested in this. Not quite sure who the burden of proof should fall upon here - the one claiming that monopolies are possible only with government or the one claiming monopolies are possible without government. We certainly have lots of cases of monopolies co-existing with government, but I know of no cases of monopolies existing without government. This might primarily be because we have few cases of there being no government, period. Personally I tend to think that the institutionalization of the monopoly on coercive force is quite instrumental in upholding monopolies. I can see them being created without there being a government, but don't see them lasting very long without providing excellent products/services and/or developing government-like qualities themselves. Could you perhaps point me towards some materials supporting your claim that this is just an-cap dogma?

OK so 20 mins ago I sent two transactions and not only were they not included in the next block (even though they had generous fees attached) they don't even show up on the recipients addresses. So far every single time I have made a transaction it would at least show up, unconfirmed, at the recipients address. Anyone had this happen before? It's making me nervous, it was no small sum of BTC.

I sent it from an android device hot wallet. The first (larger) transaction showed up now. It took almost 30mins. Still waiting for the second one. It will be fine, I trust the network This might have something to do with the huge amount of transactions in the network atm. last block had over 700.

Are concepts like national pride and patriotism really needed in Bitcoinland? I don't think so.

I find this to be an excellent rebuttal when faced with people suggesting that regulation will somehow help Bitcoin...

US-centric much? Nowadays a government banning something is more likely to spark interest than create fear and obedient avoidance. Hurting the price of Bitcoin? Sure would do. Destroying it? Not by a long shot.


sort of like today Dogecoin and Litecoin have no value because Bitcoin is the most popular?

I'm liking the more serious discussion around here. Interesting to note, that there seems to be a correlation between people not being willing to describe themselves as anarchists/libertarians and their faith in the viability and effectiveness of the political process to effect meaningful positive change.

Is that a green daily candle on Stamp?  

Glad to see you posting in this thread, haven't seen you around for a while. I enjoy the insight in your posts.

The bolded part sums up how I feel about this issue. The network is showing its resilience and most involved actors (exchchanges, devs, hodlers) seem to be behaving with calmness and intelligence. I agree that this will make the network stronger once again and I like it!

that's just perfect 

Tuesday's gone with the wind

an infinite amount of monkeys typing on typewriters for a long enough period of time and all that...

Actually, there is a lot of mental capacity concentrated on this forum, sometimes it shines through in random places in between the regular wall observer stuff - it's what keeps me wasting my time here.

[/quote]

So...did you record this song after traveling back in time after you've done this?

Heh and just today after listening to it I sent you a small tip, asking myself "I wonder what she'll do with that money"   Who would have guessed.

Anyway, as a fellow gambler: if you feel the odds are right and you have the bankroll to take the risk - go for it and good luck!

Oh and here I had this fantasy of you being a multi-talented female early adopter/singer...   Anyways, good job!

I guess those 2,3mBtc will buy you a whole goxcoin soon   you should update that address though

I know nothing about TA but is that a "head and shoulders" forming on 15m chart on stamp? That is supposed to be bullish I believe?

looks kind of similar-ish to my untrained eye. Your prediction of 530 being the bottom seems pretty solid. I'm pretty torn between 530 being the bottom or a continuation of the downtrend until a final capitulation in the 400s (like Risto has been preaching).

Thanks for the explanation! Now I feel a bit less dumb. Seeing there seems to have just been a 1K+ btc dump on stamp I assume it's safe to say that we didn't break out, but break down. So it was a fake Head & shoulders! Gotta watch out for that, you'll get dandruff.

I see. So as long as we don't break below 560 (the shoulders) the pattern hasn't broken and the scenario might still play out. TBH I also don't see this as very likely but hey bottoms are due when the least amount of people expect them, aren't they?

Watching with interest. My feeling is that we might see the bottom soon, or that we might have already seen it at 530 (less likely than the first option imo). I'm interested to see how right/wrong my feeling is.

Jorge, do yourself (and the community) a favor and listen to this guy. He's one of the most knowledgeable and well-spoken individuals on this forum and when he tells you that you need to study the topic more deeply then that is what you probably should do.

When I see your posts I am constantly lamenting the fact that someone with your obvious level of intelligence and attention to detail doesn't use his abilities to come up with new worthwhile ideas (as I'm sure you could) from which the community could benefit, but instead spends his time and energy rehashing arguments of days long past and observing sleep patterns of Chinese people...

Challenge yourself to change your mind every once in a while! I hear it's good for your sanity. I'm not saying you need to become a bulltard cheerleader so you fit in better in the circle jerk. Just open your mind a little bit more, don't worry it won't fall out. Also I know that you are strictly not a holder of bitcoin (presumably so it doesn't affect your "objectivity" in judging it) but as has been said many times before - the experience of owning some btc and using it yourself is beyond description and without this particular experience you can't ever hope to approach anything resembling an "objective opinion" on the technology.

Btw I didn't want to deride bulltard cheerleaders. That's pretty much me, as well. No coding knowledge, just a fascination with the technology and its implications. I just think we have enough of these people around, anyone able and willing to contribute something more is appreciated imo

Anyone ever go back and read the beginning of this thread? How about adams first post?


How is that working out? 

Not by a long shot. Hannibal had class and a level of calmness and self-assurance which was infuriating and horrifying to those around him. This guy, while obviously well-spoken and intelligent, chooses to present himself like an angry butthurt teenager most of the time    

So this crossover on 6h time interval is significant amirite? We haven't seen this since the second, steeper downward climb started on Feb 6. What do you TA guys make of this?

I think it is a collection of the following facts:

1. exchange diversificatoin. Probably the biggest one. Gox used to be 80%+ of the market. Now it's 20% tops and its own kind of game. Stamp has nowhere near that kind of market share.
2. hodlers. Crashes are often thought of as the "shaking off of weak hands". Therefore it follows that stronger hands remain and stronger hands bury their coins in cold wallets and don't trade on impulse. Lot of coins are just not for sale, or are tied up somewhere like it Second Market BIT or the WinklEFT.
3. coins being worth more. I do think this is a factor.
4. because of recent events people might be more reluctant to have a lot of coins in exchanges. If I were inclined to trade I know I'd be. it doesn't take that long to transfer coins into an exchange, after all so the opportunity cost of missing the action while waiting for coins to be credited to your trading account might be outweighed by the perceived risk of having coins in an exchange.

These Walls

(disembodied voice of Mark singing as he merges his consciousness with the new Gox Midas trading engine)

This is so hard for me
To find the Bitcoins
My engines standing still

Coins captive inside of me
All the traders start to hide
Transactions not getting through

Watch me
Fading
I'm losing
All my Bitcoins
Falling into darkness

Tear down these walls for me
Stop me from going under
You are the only one who knows
I'm hodling them!

It's not too late for me
To keep from sinking further
I'm trying to find my way out
Tear down these walls for me now

So much uncertainty
I don't like this FUD
I'm sinking like a stone

Each time I try to speak
There's another reddit post
And it changes everything

Watch me
Crawl from
The wreckage
Of my silence
MT GOX is
Failing

Tear down these walls for me
Stop me from going under
You are the only ones who know
I'm hodling them

It's not too late for me
To keep from sinking further
I'm trying to find my way out
Tear down these ask walls

Every time you choose sell anyway
Is it worth the price you pay
Is there someone who will wait for you
at Bitcoinbuilder
One more time?

Watch me
Fading
I'm losing
All my instincts
Falling into darkness

Tear down these walls for me
Stop me from going under
You are the only one who knows
I'm holding back

It's not too late for me
To keep from sinking further
I'm trying to find my way out
Tear down these walls for me now

Tear down these walls for me
It's not too late for me
Tear down these walls for me

so mr. 10K wall decided to dump instead? That was pretty epic. We have a new low, gentlemen.

I'm laughing way too hard at this!

Just woke up and expected to see the price around 500$ instead it surprises me once again by having shot up all the way to 600$. We are entering CCMF territory once again. Watching for a retracement before starting the slow grind up. It's no quick task to get this heavy train rolling, this has just been the firing up of the engines!

http://cyprus-mail.com/2014/02/26/central-bank-says-bitcoin-is-not-illegal/

I just love how central banks can't regulate Bitcoin without declaring it to be currency and thus giving it legitimacy in the eyes of the many who have been trained to trust in their authority  splendid!

Be happy. This means that most of the people, while having heard of Bitcoin by now, still know next to nothing about it. What does this tell you about its potential for growth? 

wow, this is a pretty good description of the process, hat tip to you, sir.

...meanwhile the price is stealthily making its retraction?

Right, the context between these two events is different while they seem similar in how they unfolded.

I feel like a spring has been coiling beneath the weight of the GOXFUD Boulder and now that the boulder seems to be gone it has shot up. Quite fascinating to watch.

No we're not  

Because like politicians and central banks it still gets way too much unquestioning respect and credit. It needs some more bashing.

Our whole school system is designed to turn people from random individuals into mutually interchangeable parts of a big machine. What is the first thing you learn in school? It's not reading, or writing or any of that stuff which your parents or their friends could have taught you by themselves if they weren't too busy being parts of the machine. It's that your time is not your own. It doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the authorities who will tell you when to be at a certain place, doing certain things. Better get used to it kiddo, because it's going to be like that for the rest of your life!

Next thing you learn is that mistakes are bad. So bad in fact that it is preferable to do nothing than to make mistakes. Oh and don't bother thinking for yourself. There is exactly ONE correct answer to everything and we already have it so don't bother with that, just memorize these text books.

Btw I went to university. I was interested in the subject they were "teaching". What a huge pile of horse crap that was. I quit. Everyone told me I am crazy, without education I won't get a good job! Right. As if having a Job (acronym for "Just over broke") is the only way to get by in life. Anyway I told them they are crazy for wasting their best years in such a rotten institution. And they knew it was shit. But the momentum of the whole system just carried them further and they stayed, finished their schools, got into jobs and started turning into miserable zombies just as predicted. And the ones who actually stayed in school even further, turning themselves into academics? They were the worst of the bunch. Lifeless, bland individuals, without any original thought in their heads. Conforming to the standards of authority has become the alpha and omega and everything else takes the back seat. Except their bitter conviction that somehow they are relevant. That somehow the guy who spent his whole life in academia can teach businessmen about management.

Jorge - you will get made fun of here. You got more than enough chances to join the discussion in a productive manner but you refuse to do it, instead seemingly relishing in all the (albeit negative) attention you're getting. I get it, it's become a part of your personality to define yourself as the bright, misunderstood victim of stupid bullies who just won't listen. So here you go, have some more! You are irrelevant and at best an amusement. Your murder case analogy made me laugh, for instance. Laugh at the possibility that you might be serious lol  

The price is so boring the last day or so that nobody bothers discussing it anymore...you know what this means?

WE HAVE DONE IT! BITCOIN IS FINALLY STABLE!

That would be me

I stare at charts because it gives my obsessively analytical mind something to do.

EDIT: it's not fair to say I never sell. I do spend. And then buy some more. And sending micro-donations to all sorts of people has become my hobby 

The net is littered with smug obituaries like this one:

http://dailyreckoning.com/bye-bye-bitcoin-hello-hard-assets/

we should make it a point to re-send this opinionated pontificating crap to its respective authors in a year from now. Daring them to re-publish it. Wasn't there a list of these sort of obituaries and predictions somebody was maintaining? Talk is SO cheap these days. You can just write a piece like this, be proven completely wrong and never have to admit your mistake or apologize - you just continue to pontificate on whatever else is the topic of the day.

Ah well, gotta remember the wisdom in my signature 

yay weed! donated  

Maybe they had all their coins at empty gox?

Bitcoin just can't be understood. Don't drive yourself crazy over that 

those people should make it their mission to get out of these "job" things where they can't even look at a pretty lady and into their bedrooms. With said lady, if possible 

We live in a culture where it's considered normal to show people killing each other in the most gruesome ways imaginable on TV, but god forbid you show some people making love. What more needs to be said about this?

I feel bad for TheKoziTwo, as well. Losing over 1000BTC there is just...wow  

But because he posted this screenshot of him wiring the 50K$ to Gox just days before its final collapse makes me think that both having BTC at gox and wiring that fiat were calculated risks on his part. Hope he knew what he's doing and as befits a speculative investment, he was willing to lose all of this money.

He was a pretty active poster and his last login shows 25.2. I sure hope he's okay...

WOW  THIS IS MADNESS  

what resistance?  

Dat hourly candle  

Somebody should make a timelapse of the last 12 hours, just like this one, including epic music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az8IFMPR88o

EDIT: never noticed that TERA was the one who did this one. Kudos to him!

So we seem to be converging around TERAs "resistance point" of 666. What does this mean, TERA? Does this mean that Bitcoin is the mark of the beast, after all?

Or is it Mark, that is the beast?  BA-DA DUM TSCH 

I sure hope this is a hoax. I think both Bitcoin and Satoshi will be better off, if Satoshis identity is not known.

EDIT: Adam, time to change the poll perhaps?

and here come the dumps...CEO OF BITCOIN FOUND!!

This might as well be the motto of this thread  

No more dumpling? I am disappoint 

aaaaand it's back at 666

Fascinating how predictable this has become!

you have made absolutely NO point. You just keep repeating, that government is not the same as a gang of thugs and taxation is not the same as stealing, then fail to elaborate why. Then you accuse other people of doing exactly that - repeating one point without adding any arguments. Also you keep saying that "it is not the same, because it is complex" and you complain about fuzzy logic?? Sorry, this holds no ground.

I think I have seen your sort of outlook enough times to recognize the basic principles behind it. Would I be correct in assuming, that you think that:
1) government is a necessary part of society without which society can not function
2) it is possible for well intentioned people to do good through the government
3) it is possible for you as an individual to influence the government in a meaningful way?

anyway, your only argument thus far has been:


to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I draw no lines, I see a spectrum.

Let's forget the left-wing/right-wing spectrum - the important spectrum in my opinion stretches between authoritarianism/totalitarianism and anarchy.

I advocate the movement towards the anarchy part of the spectrum. Not in any violent, preferably not even sudden manner, because I think that would cause confusion and suffering. I do this because I am convinced that decentralized/voluntary/anarchistic forms of societal organization are far superior to centralized forms in terms of their efficiency. We can observe the same with technological solutions such as Bitcoin or P2P filesharing. They eliminate central points of failure (which in the case of societal institutions serve as corrupting power centers on people in their proximity), improve feedback and information accuracy (communication is only possible between equals aka. a man holding a gun to your head will only be told what his victim thinks won't make him pull the trigger) and boost resource usage efficiency (compare the cost of running even theoretically 1000x upscaled Bitcoin network to the cost of the current financial industry). I could go on about the practical reasons of why I advocate decentralization and anarchy. I leave the moral reasons to the moralists. I'd rather discuss my favorite band or writer, not my favorite set of morals

Besides all that, I simply think that "No thanks, I don't want to be governed by ANY of these choices present" is a legitimate position which should be honored just as much as the picking of a certain candidate. That this opinion is basically considered invalid by the current system makes me uneasy.

Oh yeah and about the eternal "what about the roads/fire department/schools/etc." - let's build them. Now that we have Blockchain technology and an increasingly stable currency on top of it we can build all sorts of things on a voluntary and decentralized basis at least for the reason that we don't want to be dependent on the government providing these services. Wouldn't that be a neat thing? Grow the institutions to replace the current system from the ground up. Let's plant some seeds.

So who builds the roads now? The government? No. It just pays for them. It hires private companies to build them (in most cases. Sometimes they will have their own national road building company) So how is that working out for us? Is it the most efficient way available? Is it the most fair? I would doubt it. Just because the government has been the sole provider of something during your whole life doesn't mean it is impossible to provide in different (and better) ways. What about progress?


I am willing to concede that during the majority of history this might have indeed been an impossibility due to barriers to efficient communication. Now that the internet and associated technologies are ubiquitous I feel we need to have this discussion again. The need for empire to hold society together might be far greater in a world where information travels no faster than a horses gallop, than in one where information can propagate at the speed of light globally.

Just because something hasn't been done so far with the technological and cultural level of development we had so far, does not mean that i can not be done. I hope this is clear.

I would be glad to see people, who are *sure* that a society based on voluntary cooperation and decentralization can't work just stay with the old models they feel comfortable with and let the Neophiles try the new, weird, far-out stuff. If you're sure it can't work, just let them learn their lesson the hard way, will you? And if, by any chance, they might succeed in creating communities which are more free on an individual level, more efficient in their use of resources or otherwise desirable, that's a great thing, isn't it? Wouldn't they be happy about that? They would now have more choices than to "move to a different piece of land managed by a slightly different type of government".

I repeat: let's build that shit. If you pay attention, you can see the first green shoots appearing. Think of Seans Outpost or the Dogecoiners who sent Jamaicas bobsled team to the olympics. Crypto gives us the tools, now we need to use them. Help us, or move out of the way, please!

The government and charities we have now, are a reflection of our current culture. Culture is the collective operating system. Changing governments doesn't change much. We need to go one level deeper and change the underlying cultural operating system from which they spring. And how do we do that? Gandhi knew the answer.

OH my dear Eris, this thread has become so littered by strawmen that I fear the whole forum will catch on fire if I drop a match...

I won't address them all, I'll just leave one important thought here for all to consider. I haven't seen it mentioned in the whole debate:

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR SOCIETY AND HOW TO ACHIEVE IT

Neither do I, of course. That is the point. The main one. Frame it and put it above your bathroom mirror.

You do not know.

Here we have this wonderfully complex and complicated web of interaction and interrelation of human beings, set in an equally complex biosphere. To think that YOU have the capability to process all of the necessary information and come up with the answers for what needs to be done to make everyone better off...is hubris, dangerous, arrogant hubris, which lies at the heart of the failings of our current system.

Actually, I have written about this topic before

An excerpt:



Do not fall prey to the Grand Utopia.

Of course I'm not sure! Isn't my forum screen name a dead giveaway that I am certain of nothing?  

I have my suspicions, though. And one of them is that letting billions of people, who have equally no idea how to run everything, try to run a small part of their lives & surroundings in myriads of different ways...will result in a better situation for most, compared to the centrally planned alternatives. Now why do I suspect that? It has to do with how information flows. From trying countless times I know this is a difficult concept to get across and grasp for most people. I'll help myself out with another excerpt, this time not written by myself:


In my own words: a decentralized system seems preferable to a centralized one, because it tends to produce what people actually need on an individual level more efficiently, because there is actual information feedback going on. There has been talk about roads and who would build them if governments weren't around. Richy_T was the only one to spot the hidden implication: who knows if we really need roads? We have them now, yes, together with cars and they fulfill a certain function. But look at the traffic jams everywhere, with mostly one person per vehicle idling their engines and releasing toxic fumes into the environment. Maybe roads can indeed be build by someone who doesn't have to turn a profit (i.e. government) and the fact that they exist is a bad thing.

I think the quote by JayJuanGee is one of the many strawmen I have been alluding to. I have often seen this argument made, usually followed up by some talk about "human nature". What I fail to understand about this position is this: if it is true and human nature is vicious, crooked and evil (something I choose not to believe), then how is the creation of an institution with the legal monopoly on initiating force helping the situation? Especially since this institution is operated by the very same vicious, crooked and evil human beings?

In the end it boils down to the question of whether you trust people in general. I do. And if you don't, you're afraid that they'll be mean to you without the presence of some punishing force...I would suggest traveling around a bit more.

Please tell me more about how I would go about producing this kind of proof? I hope you don't mean "talk about it"?


I am truly sorry, but you seem to be misunderstanding me here. I reckon English is not your primary language? I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I have stated that I have often seen this argument being made, as well as what sort of ideas usually follow. This doesn't necessarily mean, that you hold these same ideas, right? Well, to be fair, I find your way of expressing yourself confusing and I'm not quite sure what your points are most of the time. Please don't take this as an attempt to insult you.

Look, guys - octaft and JayJuanGee. I have done this many times and I can see where this is going. You'll be asking me to provide proof that some other system would be better. You will ask me how this other system would work, how it would achieve this or that. And I'll be replying that I do not know, after which you will probably feel like you "won the debate" because I can't produce any counter arguments. When in fact my argument is precisely that I do not know. Neither do you. And that is the reason why none of us should be in charge of all of us. The point is that having one single system is a bad idea. Multiple choices are needed.

Self organizing systems and Emergent order exist in life all around us. Utilizing them for the full benefit of society just runs counter to our prevailing culture and financial status quo. I'm at a loss to explain this to you. If I knew how a free and decentralized society would organize itself it would cease being the superior option, because we could just go ahead and do exactly that, right now. Do you see what I mean? The superior alternative quite obviously is something you and I on our own can't think of, that is why it is superior. You are familiar with the concept of synergy, I presume?

This is one of the reasons why the technology behind Bitcoin is so powerful. There is absolutely no way to predict all the ways how it will be used, by whom and for what purpose. People through trial and error, will come up with innovations so astounding that we probably can't even imagine them right now. They can innovate, without permission, because the technology is open source and decentralized. Yet here we are, on bitcointalk, proclaiming the superiority of decentralized open source financial technology, when in fact so far there has been little evidence that it is better right now. I find myself constantly amazed by the amount of bitcoiners who just don't seem to get this.

I hope my ideas and opinions don't come over that way, because that would be an utter failure to adhere to my basic philosophy of general agnosticism

Glad to see a reasonable debate. I can of course provide my ideas and opinions on HOW to progress towards a decentralized society. You are correct that I have thought about this a lot, since it is a topic I care about. To be honest I have a lot more WHYs than HOWs, but I'll try nevertheless. Not right now, though. I'll get back to you on this in the evening (it's noon where I am now).

Well this thread sure isn't the best playground to hold this debate, it's moving too fast.


I do not advocate the "throwing away of our existing system". In fact, here is what I advocated some posts ago:


I can see why you would project that thought at me. As with any group of people, dogmatic, oversimplifying people seem to be a vocal majority among anarchists.


I really feel like debating Bitcoin with someone who just keeps asking me "yes OK I understand it is decentralized, but WHO RUNS IT? WHO CONTROLS IT?" I have told you, that I am advocating movement towards anarchy. How would you describe the "system" of anarchy? You don't, because there is no one single system. The point I keep repeating here is that you and I do not know what particular system would be better suited to our needs, nor do we know how a system change would play out and to claim we do is to engage in humongous hubris. It does not follow, though, that there can be no such system. The thought, that the best possible system can be devised by a person or a group seems ridiculous to me. I am saying that we should treat society more like an organism, which grows from the inside out, than a mechanism, which is assembled from its constituent parts according to a central plan, to fulfill certain functions.

Incidentally I am all in favor of this:


I have suggested this before: to simply "cancel" the government right now would probably prove disastrous in the short term. The culture, the infrastructure, practically everything is not ready for this, because there are no alternatives ready. Government has a too dominant role in most important areas of human life. In many of them they ban competition. Before we can transition to any kind of hypothetical government-free state, these alternatives need to be created first, otherwise the transition might prove too painful. Quitting cold turkey might not be advisable in this state of high addiction to government.

What I am saying is let us work on creating these alternatives. If you do not wish to participate, I sympathize (but why are you involved with Bitcoin, I wonder?). You keep asking me to provide proof that they can work, but how can I do that? We need to try, to find out. Besides, I have already stated that it might indeed be the case, that governmental organizations have been a necessary part of civilization until the advent of the internet. But I feel that with this technology at hand, we need to re-test this belief. I have provided no "proof", nor real life examples, just a bunch of concepts and explanations, speculations and musings on why self-organizing, decentralized systems exhibit properties of emergent order and why that might be a good thing to apply to society. What more can I provide? I don't have your desired thought out central plan how to achieve decentralization.  Should I go on about how Wikipedia is superior to the Encyclopedia Britannica due to its decentralized nature?

Anyways, I'm happy for you that you seem to be quite content with the current system. Hope you can appreciate people trying to explore alternatives and tolerate their sometimes heretical thoughts while they do so. In the end if the result is having more freedom of choice, you'll be better off to. Or is the freedom of choice between different flavors of government enough for you?

This is nice to hear and I assure you I am trying to understand your position and have a good debate.

What bothers me now is your reaction to the idea of "taxation = theft". When this was mentioned you went into a rather angry tirade stating over and over again, that this concept is so ridiculous, that it shouldn't even be taken seriously, but nowhere have I seen you actually explain why. I think this is a hint to why we differ, even though I could put my signature below your quote up there. It seems that to you government = society (or a meaningful representation thereof). Which, incidentally to me represents a concept so absurd and obviously untrue, that it shouldn't even be taken seriously. I won't explain why, though. If queried, I will repeat again how ridiculous it is


And this after you put taxation and theft side by side and basically described them in the same words? I am inclined to believe now that you are trolling in some sophisticated manner, otherwise this huge overreaction would seem to me to be the defense mechanism of a very dearly held dogma.

Can you show me where, please?

I admit I have a problem with this way of thinking. Again, moral arguments about force and coercion aside, what incentive is there for the community (the government. you still seem to be conflating these two) to bother providing quality products/services if they are granted a monopoly and can just force people to pay? Besides, this creates a situation, where people are left with no choice but to give up their resources to this monopoly and are thus relieved of responsibility for their choices. A society in which people do not feel they have a responsibility to care for their elders, educate their children and care for their own health seems distastefully infantile to me. It is an ideal set of people if you want to control them, though.


To the best of my ability, the only explanation I am able to grasp is that even though the process you describe is the same (taking by force/coercion), you call it by a different name, because it is initiated by different actors. This reeks of double speak to me. Just like calling armed guerrillas "freedom fighters" or "terrorists", depending on whether you like them or not.


Yes indeed! I have written about this in my article I have linked before, an excerpt follows. But first let me state again that I suspect that the centralized management of society from the top down by force is the root cause of our problems, so it follows that I do not believe the solution to be the initiation of centrally planned reform from the top down. I hope that makes sense to you. Here is the excerpt:


I realize this might be too vague for your taste, so I will elaborate. But first of all let me state that we find ourselves in a very difficult position to achieve meaningful change by voluntary, decentralized means. Yes, technology is giving us new and better tools all the time, but the government still routinely takes half of our income and limits competition in a wide variety of spheres. I have a feeling that the situation still needs to deteriorate further before enough people view just about any other option as preferable to what they have now. Right now most people seem to prefer the Devil they know.

Richy_T had some good ideas about balancing the budget, cancelling central banks and cutting down on government spending. These are nice, but I'm not sure they're doable. The very structure of the government as an institution prohibits them. Which is why I feel the need for non-governmental alternatives.

My view is we should start with the basics: health care, care for children, disabled people and the elderly, education, social security. Start building local centers which would provide the necessities of life and be financed by voluntary contribution. Sure, this might not work, depending whether people actually are compassionate and willing to donate, or not - but it's worth a try. Crypto could play an obvious and huge role here. I find myself constantly donating some BTC every time I see some cause I support, or product I like. I would definitely contribute some of my time, energy and money to such projects. I find it near impossible to believe that it would take as much as half of our collective resources to achieve the goal of providing basic life necessities for everyone who needs them. I think we need a change in our cultural outlook first of all.

Another related thought I had: so far I have been content to be the bearer of the burden of proof in this discussion, but actually it doesn't necessarily have to be this way. The same way you can tell me I need to explain why a decentralized society might work I can call on you to prove that it couldn't. It is equally hard to do, because we lack data. Also I can put the burden of proof on you to explain, why it is necessary to have an institution with the monopoly on legal initiation of force, which consumes huge amounts of resources, raises armies, routinely imprisons, tortures and kills people, even its own citizens, wages wars, is responsible for the death of millions and is making a small group of insiders obscenely rich while failing to deliver on its promises to help out the rest. This is a clusterfuck of gigantic proportions and I would think addressing the point of if we really need such a thing should be a top priority and evaluated ASAP. How can the benefits of this institution possibly outweigh its cost?

I second this sentiment. I wish I could write with your level of brevity and pertinence. Well done.  


I think you're doing a very good job. Far better than most (myself included)

I've had my fill of the eternal debate for now. I'd love to observe some walls, but atm I might as well go paint my own walls and watch the paint dry..

This is pretty much how I see it. Being an incorrigible optimist, I keep advocating for the peaceful, bottom-up, growing of alternatives. Even though I don't think there is a high probability we will see this. Lacking this path, there seems to be only the inevitable collapse which looms pretty scary.


Great suggestion! Considering how often I stare at this chart it's downright criminal I haven't donated until now  

You don't need to subscribe to the just world fallacy, nor have a disdain for poor people to want to abolish government involvement in social security. You might be of the opinion (as I am), that social security would probably better be handled if the government wasn't involved. Private individuals would have more disposable wealth to share with others, if the government would refrain from taking half of their income for starters.

Like you describe the just world fallacy as an attempt to come to terms with ones own (presumably comparatively well-off) situation compared to the situation lots of poor people find themselves in. The same thing can be said about wanting the government to take care of social security. That way when you walk down the street and see a beggar in torn clothes you can think to yourself that it is none of your business. It's the job of somebody else to take care of this problem - we have experts for that. Relying on government (or other institutions for that matter) to take care of the poor shows more disdain for them than advocating the stance that we are all responsible on an individual level. And if you are OK with living in a world with lots of poor people - fine then. But if you're not, don't stand around crying for somebody to do something. Inevitably some politician will hear your cry and do "something" and we all find ourselves wishing he hadn't done anything At least give that beggar a dollar yourself or treat him to lunch or a haircut or whatever. Give him the feeling that he is a human being, too! That's what people need the most anyway. A bureaucrat won't give him that.

I agree that there is this basic difference between our outlooks on life. On my part it is quite a conscious decision. I choose to view people as generally decent and likeable, because I find life to be more fun that way. Maintaining my general agnosticism I realize that I probably can't know for sure either way. Traveling a lot and Couchsurfing in particular have reinforced my view.

Besides that I am skeptical of any notions about a "fixed" human nature. My own experience and certain experiments which have been conducted with some funny chemicals before they became illegal make me think that human behavior, our individual software which makes us behave certain ways, is mostly influenced by the environment we find ourselves in and is much more flexible than most would imagine. This means that there can be no permanent selfish, greedy, or altruistic human nature for me. It is not only subject to the point in space-time where the bearer of said human nature finds himself, but can be re-programmed with the skillful use of appropriate methods later in life.

If I were to take a dim view of human nature in general, my reaction would be to limit the amount of power humans could attain in order to minimize the damage they can do. It seems that while having this assumption, giving people huge amounts of power in order to watch out for/over the rest of the equally crooked people, is really counter productive.

Anyway, I'm sure if we met over a beer, we would get along just fine  

And you still don't seem to be understanding that this is a valid way to do things.

I suggest you read a bit about Zen Buddhism or Taoism.

Alternatively, Alan Watts can explain how this applies to our current debate.

Since you are still conflating the words "community" and "government". Here's what your post would look like, if we substitute one for the other.


Haven't you ever heard of a situation in which what the government wants is perceptibly different from what the community wants. You keep using sentences like , stating them as fact and acting like you have provided an argument. You treat your opinions like fact (at least your statements lead me to believe this) and that makes debating you quite annoying imo. Take octaft for example. He seems to view matters similarly to you but seems to have a much more open mind about it.

Anyway do you really believe the government is an accurate expression of the will of the community? That they are functionally the same thing?


and still be hounded by the IRS lol  

I don't think anyone here will try to argue any differently. I agree too, people should have a say in these things. What I (and many others here) am saying is that there are other ways of doing this besides centralized governments. And some of them may even be better, too.

Yes, octaft leaves a much better impression, because he doesn't drop these:


so often. This is not the first time you are saying about people that they live in "pie in sky" fantasy land. I do not know whether I live in fantasy land, nor whether you do. But have YOU considered that you might live in fantasy land, too? I am not implying you are, but that it is important to keep the possibility in mind.

you are still not getting my point...


how the hell do you determine this so readily? What is true or not. I am starting to think that your ego is making it impossible to get this point. I am abandoning hope for meaningful conversation with you, sorry.

Price action is boring and the warriors of ideology have exhausted themselves. We need a new topic to talk about. I propose beer 

Have we indeed run out of stuff to talk to each other and argue about? 

Nobody even wants to discuss beer. Beer is fun. I like beer. I used to just drink it but in the last year or so I've started going to beer tastings. Now I know how little I know about beer  Last time I discovered a type of beer called barley wine. It has 12% of alcohol but doesn't taste like it at all. I bought a bottle of it and if something doesn't happen soon I'm going to open it and drink it.

does not compute 

I still need to go to the US one day and go see for myself if these ridiculous cliches are actually true. I've heard you guys don't actually like beer, you just like to pee a lot 

Wow. Such tipping. Very impress!

Praise Bob!

In case of questions, consult your pineal gland and sacrifice 1satoshi to Eris.

In other news...have you already heard the Ode to Satoshi? Great song! 

Don't forget to show everybody how awesome Bitcoin is by tipping the artist if you enjoyed his work

haha I love your style Adam 

So the 563 wall is back now?

What would be the current price projection based on this model?

I admit this is indeed a pretty interesting fit!

These are some real green shoots of recovery after you let big companies fail, instead of bailing them out as is the norm today. What is happening is that people, shocked, and sobered by this fiasco, start to demand things like proof of reserves and transparent exchanges. Companies trying to claim market share (there should be lots of it up for grabs with Gox gone) are stepping forward to meet the new demand. The whole Bitcoin ecosystem is growing more robust as a direct consequence.

I am happy with this development and feel like it validates my initial intuition I had after the final Goxing, when I felt that this is going to help Bitcoin in the long run a lot!

care to share the reason why you're deleting your old posts?

So we need another capitulation, because the Gox capitulation doesn't count? Is this it? So much bearish sentiment in this thread.

FINALLY I found out what Goat has been up to:

GOAT SIMULATOR

These are strange times we live in

Today I discovered a new contrarian indicator: my own dreams.

Just before waking up I had very lucid dreams of living with bears in my home. There were several of them and they were like Schrodingers bears - not quite there or not there until we looked - just like ask walls nowadays. The timing of this dream coincided very precisely with the start of the current rally...

damn you Bitcointalk! There's so much bearish sentiment that I'm dreaming about bears all night  

Much love. I like elephants 

In Bitcoinland you short the rumor and buy the news. All news is actually bad news. But it is already priced in. I should start trading  

To be honest, calling the PBoC situation "FUD" seems quite appropriate to me. Remember, FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Yes, the acronym is being thrown at any piece of bad news lately, even if official and confirmed, but that doesn't change its underlying meaning.

So does the situation check the boxes?

Fear - definitely yes
Uncertainty - debatable. You seem to be claiming that the outcome is quite certain, many others are not so sure.
Doubt - plenty of that going around. People doubt the legitimacy of sources and how/when/if the (vague) statements will be enforced

I'm not saying we should ignore this very real piece of FUD, or that it's actually going to take us to the moon. Just that calling it FUD seems fine from an etymological standpoint.

I used to enjoy your TA posts, but ever since you turned bear they've gotten so nasty and bitter, that they just make me cringe 

Really? They KNOW what happens when those things fail? Must resist urge to post famous Bertrand Russel quote...

I suppose you're referring to this quote?



If so, shall we pretend that this is an argument FOR democracy? Or shall we realize that is actually an argument AGAINST government? Think carefully..

For if this is the best we could come up with...we should probably stop trying.

EDIT: even Churchill knew this at some level

This one:



It was meant as a reaction to your "people, who KNOW what happens without government"


I like this one!  

Don't you worry and no need to turn into a Panda because of China



We'll have our "Bitcoin hits 1K$ party" soon enough

Good, thought-provoking perspective!  

Thanks for that.

+1

That was brilliant!

good...good, come to the dark side!

Wait...the empire is the dark side. Come to the light side then. Our cookies are superior, if you know what I mean  


Ah yes, ye olde "the system is fine, we need to vote in the right people" utopia. If that's not an utopian idea, I don't know what is. We have tried this literally thousands of times. So how is that working out for us? Famous Einstein quote about insanity comes to mind.

BTW I would like to apologize to JayJuanGee for placing him way lower than octaft on my "likeable statists" list back when this thread was full of anarchist/statist rants. My argument was that octaft doesn't do ad hominem. Oh well...

And lest I forget:



CCMF!

If you would dig around the forums a bit, you should find that aminorex is one of the most knowledgeable posters around here. His way of stuffing tons of abstract concepts into one sentence might seem like pseudo-intellectual gibberish to some, but that's just because they don't see what the hell he means. I, too have my troubles with that sometimes

(I think he's the only poster ever whose intelligence got acknowledged by AnonyMint, that's got to count for something lol  )

I have written about this theory before:


would be nice if you graced my thread about conspiracies with your thoughts. It's been gathering dust, even though it's such a fun topic and this is the speculation forum!

hey Jorge, there just was a 600BTC buy on Bitstamp while Huobi did nothing  

"TA can't possibly give you a greater than 50% edge" sounds awfully similar to "it is impossible to make a living by playing poker it is all just luck" to me.

Speaking as someone who doesn't day trade, doesn't know much about TA but makes a living from poker.

Yep. That's why when people ask me what I consider to be the most important skill of a (long-term) successful poker player I say "Bankroll management". I suspect this applies to day trading as well. Things like patience, discipline and emotional balance come in second - even though they are key, as well. I have elaborated on the similarity of daytrading and poker playing before:

Actually we raise if actual equity + fold equity (the chance that the other person folds) are >50. We call if our equity is high enough compared to what we are required to call/what is in the pot. It is OK to call a 10$ bet to win a 100$ pot if we only have a 15% chance to win

Lately I've been seeing so much more complaining about the "bitcoin cultists" than actual cultists. Are you sure they actually exist? Where are those guys?

I would like to coin a new term: Bitcoin cultist cultists (aka. BCC) - seeing raving bitcoin cultists everywhere and being convinced they will destroy everything with their unbridled optimism and faith  

thanks for that. Subgenius is a wonderful religion (I practice it every Thursday). Just so you're not stuck with just ONE religion, you should try being a discordian pope every once in a while. It's fun cause you're infallible.  

I disagree slightly. Yes, everyone has beliefs about all sorts of things. That's no big deal and does no harm. It is the faith in the infallibility/100% correctness of ones beliefs which causes all the trouble.

Never believe 100% in any one BS (Belief System)
Never believe 100% in your own BS.

and these opinions seem to be perfectly balanced ATM, as indicated by the stagnant price

Glad to see you took the time to bring this topic to the Troll Wall observer thread as well

The potential for Bitcoin/crypto to facilitate a transition to a sustainable economy (as opposed to an infinite growth oriented one) through providing an alternative deflationary monetary system is a huge deal. HUGE DEAL.

The fantastic thing here is that this needn't rely on the prudence of a great many people (like you are calling for), not even their general intelligence. Instead by simply providing a superior system with lower friction, transaction cost and greater control and sovereignty over your funds people will be attracted to the superior system (see Greshams Law ) and start preferring it. The superior system meanwhile provides incentives for responsible fiscal and economic behavior - namely SAVING (pejoratively known as "hoarding") money and SAVING resources. If your currency doubles as an appreciating store of value you don't need financial advisors and baroque financial instruments draining resources with their otherwise unnecessary unproductive activity. If your savings are appreciating you will think twice whether you really need to buy something right now. This incentive for deferred consumption will presumably have a huge impact on our current consumerist culture and that is just the tip of the iceberg of how the transition to a different monetary system might profoundly influence culture. As I said, this is a HUGE DEAL and I wish more people would pay attention to this aspect of crypto instead of trolling each other about price & trading.

Meanwhile enjoy this song about Making Money in the inflationary monetary system

So it appears Peter Schiff has finally wrapped his mind around Bitcoin:

http://blog.europacmetals.com/2014/05/euro-pacific-precious-metals-now-accepts-bitcoin/

I approve of this message. And because yesterday was a most holy discordian day (FRIDAY the 23.5.) I hereby pronounce all readers of this thread to be discordian popes.

A pope is somebody who is not under the authority of the authorities.

"The rights of a =POPE= include but are not necessarily limited to:

    1. To invoke infallibility at any time, including retroactively.
    2. To completely rework the Erisian church.
    3. To baptise, bury, and marry (with the permission of the deceased in the latter two cases).
    4. To ex-communicate, de-ex-communicate, re-ex-communicate, and de-re-ex-communicate (no backsies!) both his-/her-/it-/them-/your-/our- /His-/Her-/It-/Them-/Your-/Our -self/selves and others (if any).
    5. To perform all rites and functions deemed inappropriate for a Pope of Discordia.

Please note that discordians are forbidden to agree with each other.

Fnord

No. It is a complicated joke disguised as a religion. Or a religion disguised as a complicated joke. No one knows for sure.

Yes, it was EPIC

still don't understand why someone would do that, though. Historically once ATH has been broken, several 100% of gains followed before a correction.

The bolded part is extremely important to understand as it makes all the difference.

There have been disruptive technologies before: printing press, radio, TV, phones, internet...see a pattern here? They all have to do with communication. For information is the true source of wealth in a society and any technology making the spreading and storing of information cheaper, with less friction and more available to everyone is immensely valuable and everyone investing in it is bound to find themselves very wealthy.

Bitcoin is also a technology of storing/spreading information - namely the information of value and ownership. The crucial difference which makes Bitcoin a unique case even among the above impressive list of technologies is that you can directly invest in the technology itself. From day 1. With the other technologies in order to profit you had to found a company producing the product in question or invest in one. And then you had to battle competition and make sure you invest in the right company. While the technology of mobile phones or the internet is still around and its value is still increasing, most companies which have been involved with the technology are not. With Bitcoin you don't need to do any of that. In a sense it is almost too easy. Except that it requires deep understanding of several complex subjects in order to make an informed and committed investment decision while most of the world is still skeptical, outright dismissive, or doesn't even know about its existence.

The analysis might not be bullshit - personally I think it's quite sound and convincing. I remain agnostic about it, of course.

As has been mentioned, Willy accounted for a rather large amount of volume on Gox and overall, but not overwhelmingly so. Its activity might have initiated and supported the trend, but I wouldn't say it has been a dominant factor. Think of it as Willy putting a multiplier effect on rally - it made it slightly faster and reach slightly higher price levels.

I think that has been mostly priced in now during the 5 month long downward trend. Note how this trend has been longer than the previous one, maybe this "multiplier effect" was one of the reasons why. The final goxing and China banning Bitcoin every week are others.

Meanwhile, as usual, infrastructure has been built, the merchant base has expanded, awareness has been raised, critics converted and ever higher amounts of venture capital flowed into the ecosystem. To say that the current uptrend has no basis just because of the Willy report making some convincing claims (which might not be true at all) about how its activity affected a past rally...seems like attributing too much importance to this. And/or missing the importance of the other developments I mentioned.

Just relax and hodl

Someone please correct me if I am wrong here, but I think the 100million/day figure includes change outputs from transactions. This means if I send you 2mBTC but my smallest available output is 20BTC the transaction will register as roughly 10,000$ of value transferred, instead of 1$ (assuming a price of 0.5$/mBTC). Also because Bitcoin is pseudonymous there is no way to tell how many of these transactions are between different wallets controlled by the same entity.

But your main point stands, of course.

EDIT: just noticed my currect activity level reads as if it's giving me a suggestion

Oooooh, great idea! I pledge to give 23 of his students (if there are any) 5mBTC each.

you can quote me on this.

Haha way to go and make me look like a cheapskate well done! Let's do this.

Agreed on the blockchain wallets as well.

Very predictable reaction. I have to wonder, though: I can understand you being reluctant to use your own money the money given to you by the government to buy bitcoins if you think the technology will fail. I can even understand yourself declining offers for free bitcoins, because of your seeming conviction that if you use it just even once, your objective judgement will be forever clouded. Which I personally think is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever seen on these forums, but hey I like bullshit - see my signature.

But what about distributing free bitcoins to other people? What is your rationalization for declining that offer? That there are "better uses" for the money? Please kindly let the owners of said money be the judge of that. Or are you afraid, that people will get hooked on it, just like if we offered them free heroin? You want to protect them from themselves, because you're convinced you know best what's good for other people? How about letting them form their own opinion? If you're so sure that your opinion is right, they'd probably just validate it by forming the same one.

I think your reasons are different. Even though your pride and your posting track record will never allow it, at some level you realize that your opinion might be wrong. And you fear the embarrassment of your students becoming enthusiastic about the technology. So you would deny them the option to form their own opinions just to protect your pride. I am calling you out on this because I think it's quite pathetic.

To allow them to make up their own minds and form their own opinions about it maybe?

As suspected, you seem to think that just because you think a certain way about Bitcoin technology, everyone should and eventually will do so as well. May I say this is a fairly typical attitude for a (self-confessed) government apologist. You people just can't stop thinking that there is just one answer for everything, one correct solution for everyone...and that you have it, know it and are definitely not above forcing it on everyone. For their own good, of course.

Fortunately it is the statists who don't understand how the world works and always bypasses their attempts at controlling everything according to their morals. Your students will get bitcoins (if they wish - we will not be forcing our opinion on anyone) and there is nothing you can do to stop it

Selling? We are giving out free samples Would you deprive your poor students of free penis enlargement pills and royal Nigerian money, too?

Well, I was thinking that with you being an enthusiastic student of snake oil, you might want to study the effects of using it on the next best test group to laboratory rats - university students

@hmmmstrange: we will have to find someone else - as expected. Are you still up to it?

priceless! 

I refuse to take this individual seriou.....ALL HAIL HYPNOJORGE!!

Great to hear that!

aaah foundations. Shall we create our own group for this so academics might easier label and categorize us? I propose we call ourselves the Jovial Organization Representing Generous Erisians

If successful and well-funded, J.O.R.G.E. might expand its activities to students around the world

Fortunately for you, if these things bother you and you'd rather have a malleable money supply managed by unelected officials who can seize funds and reverse transactions at will: you are well served with the current monetary paradigm - be it Keynesian, monetarist or neocon - the differences are of cosmetic character, really.

Those of us with the (obviously wrong!) view that a monetary system should be predictable and not prone to manipulation by individuals have been longing for the chance to try out something like that. It will quite obviously fail, because centralized systems run by experts are naturally superior to decentralized systems run by no one but some people just need to convince themselves on their own, deferring to the wise opinions of experts is not enough for them. And who knows - if by some freak accident such a monetary system turns out to be better than what we have now, you will benefit as well

gotta love those weekend dips

I think he was alluding to the "Silk Road crash" in early October 2013 when the news of the Silk Road having been taken down caused the price crash by 30%+ in a matter of minutes.

It is a bullish memory around here, because that crash (and the subsequent very fast recovery) marked the beginning of the price rise from around 100$/BTC to over 1000.

You'll get a Starobrno for this tomorrow 

I didn't forget btw. I'm just...lazy and late   Enjoy your beer!

I have to say I really liked the "matrioska cup and handle" chart posted by...who was it? molecular? Several cups nested inside one another.

According to this model we would now have to stabilize around 620 for a while. It's why I voted 625 in the poll and felt stupid at first when it kept going up. Now I think we might see this play out after all

You truly are a discordian saint. Praise be to chaos and praised be the monkey!

That was when the congress hearings were being held. I remember going out for drinks and coming back to a 25%+ crash yet it was still higher than when I went out. It was surreal, really. There were these congressmen, some of them talking about the price with the smile of one who has already bought their stash and yet the price was crashing.

Yes, Fiat is NOT a Ponzi and Taxes are NOT theft, because it is the government who is engaged in these activities. The name of the action depends on who is doing the action, not on the content of the action - we've been through this before, haven't we?

Euphemisms are being used by our culture to obfuscate and conceal the graveness of many of societies conditions. And you've fallen for it.

St. George Carlin will explain way better than me

Well, we have a major disagreement here.

The gov exhibits behavior suggesting that its goals are precisely the ones you've mentioned. Now it might not have been a conscious choice by any individual or group of individuals to make it so (which helps explain the persistent myth of the "government as servant"), but there we have it. You say it's selfish and thieving people using the gov for their own purposes. I say the very structure of gov provides incentive for such behavior and prohibits honest and non-corrupt behavior.

And government as a monopolistic, hierarchical structure with the legal monopoly of initiating force will be abandoned one day, believe it or NOT

But first stable, proven, decentralized alternatives with a track record of superior efficiency need to emerge.

I feel like difference in opinion, even in fundamental assumptions about life, shouldn't ruin peoples ability to enjoy a beer together and/or have a friendly discussion

I'm happy to hear that the US government has decided to sell 0.1% of all coins which will ever be mined for a couple of million of their own currency. Way less than they keep creating in one day, actually.

Now Uncle Sam, please hurry up with the DPR trial (free him btw!) and sell off the rest of your coins

EDIT: actually looking at the terms of the auction...these coins might just be going from bad to worse hands

Oh, well...it's just 30K BTC 

Thanks for this. Don't you and monkey want to have your own thread? I enjoy reading your thoughts. It triggers many associations and thought processes and I get interested in new things

But you are a Discordian Pope, don't you know that?!

Of course, Discordians are forbidden to agree with each other so you should probably deny it.

That's why I asked aminorex if he would consider having his own thread for his musings and the insights of his monkey. He declined citing his unwillingness to maintain it. I'd actually do that for him if he wanted to. He provides very complex and stimulating thoughts and models which are well worth considering.

On the other hand Jorges trust in the competence and good-will of the central planners is equal parts adorable and terrifying 

Glad you answered your own question later in your own post:



You represent very well what I call the "Grand Utopia": the belief that it is possible and feasible to have a central government populated by people of good-will, working hard to maximize happiness and benefits for all and actually achieving such a goal.

In light of how often this has been tried and with what results, this is a far more outlandish utopia than the ridiculous idea that less centralization of power might bring about more prosperity and happiness for everyone.

Jorge you're a riot! You say the funniest things sometimes 

On a more serious note, this particular sentence highlights the way of thinking which makes statements like this possible: the assumption that it is possible to create universal regulations which will be "fair" to everybody and that YOU are capable of knowing what they are. Dangerous delusions, though funny. I feel conflicted about this

brilliant analogy! I'm going to borrow it

One thing I noticed about people who claim that government is inevitable and anarchy "can't work" is that they seem to always believe in a permanent, unchangeable human nature and they are very confident that they personally know what it is.

Of course human nature is bad in their eyes. Which then dictates that in order to protect ourselves from the effects of the bad human nature of other people, we need to create a very powerful institution, endow it with a legal monopoly on the initiation of force and populate it with the very same bad people it is supposed to protect us against the very worst of the bad people, since sociopaths are drawn to power like flies to shit...go figure 

how can you be so absolutely sure about that?

Resident Anarchist Linguist to the rescue!


Tell me please: where did you have this experience of living in a totally unregulated market? I'd love to try it out myself!



Oh dear, slavery is freedom, war is peace.

The sad thing is that by now probably the only thing which might make you realize the contradictions in your Belief System (BS) is 5grams of dried mushrooms 

on a more constructive note:


I think you're on the right track. What needs to be changed imo is the thing that causes government regulation to exist in the first place, which is our culture. Our collective operating system. Because it hasn't been consciously updated for the era ultra-high acceleration of knowledge and technological progress, it is full of self-destructive bugs and plain old stupidity. This is why people (like you) feel, that "total freedom is certainly never desirable" - because they fear what all the people with their messed up operating systems might do, once "given total freedom".

That is of course a straw man. You are never given freedom. You can only claim freedom and by doing so change your own mental operating system. Some people will still choose to have harmful operating systems - we should be trying to help them...or who knows, maybe their kind serves a specific function in society. In any case it is a good idea not to provide them with tools to amplify the consequences of their destructive behavioral habits (i.e. government).

It's funny because it's true!

Terence was one of the biggest influences on my way of thinking. I dare say I've listened to at least 95% of his publicly available material at least once. And you know how much of it there is... 

hmmm DMT 

Adam how about a beer giveaway again? I send you the bits and you post funny pictures with QR codes in them. I'm too drunk/retarded to do that 

Nicely spotted!

Now get your shit together and haul your ass over here, private!

Seems like Shroomsy has been testing new drugs and selling body parts (middle toe on right foot) for fiat so he can go long BTC 

intellectual joke of the day!

wow great article! I love the presented idea of bank-independent ATMs. At first I thought that it's nice how such a thing might prevent banking troubles such as the NZ company you mentioned is facing but then I realized that a network of these ATMs would indeed represent a superior pricing mechanism to what we have today, both in its robustness and its efficiency. Seriously one of the best ideas in Bitcoin space I've read in a long time. I'd be willing to invest in one of these.

If you'd bother to actually read the article, you'd see that it's precisely arbitrage that is a major factor why a system consisting of unbanked ATMs would be a superior pricing mechanism.

Let's crowdfund this? I pledge 23 MILLION Satoshi to the cause   more if it gains traction.

Can we find people who can build this?

I am also still interested in the sponsoring of a Jovial Organization Representing Generous Erisians which would aim to distribute free bits among students. There has been one such proposal to do this at a certain Brazilian school...

I've already appropriated your name, how d'ya like THAT?

Language is always evolving, just like everything else except for homo bureaucraticus and homo academicus.

Of course it's not.

It's just that the current system full of bailouts and behind the scenes manipulation doesn't have much to do with "survival of the fittest". Or which traits are we trying to reward here?

Following with great interest!

where do you get these from adam?

It seems like the market is trying to get enough people to despair and capitulate before it's ready to rise again. The irresistible force (market) meets the immovable object (legions of permabulls)....what will happen?

Is your avatar from This video?

Hey proudhon, are you currently a bear a bull or a proudhon?

It seems like the previous bubbles have desensitized traders and hodlers so much that the btc price has to smack us really long and hard in order for capitulation to occur. Such bad sentiment. wow.

Same here. I feel validated  

btw haven't seen you around for a while, glad to see you posting. Same with Rampion - one of my favorite posters.

welcome back. Together with Proudhon and Rampion I've now spotted three of my favorite posters in the last two days. Good times, don't even care about the price drops now 

Tonight I dreamed that I am watching the charts on wisdom and a huge dump brings the price all the way to 0, followed by an instant rebound to well over 20% from where it started. Pretty exciting 

mmitech I think your obsession with bashing rpietila is unhealthy 

You are welcome fnord

these are the skills needed to be a successful professional poker player (in descending order of importance):

1. bankroll/money management (believe it or not, this one is the most important of all)
2. patience and discipline
3. emotional detachment from results - i.e. caring about whether you made a good play, not about what the particular result this time was
4. knowledge of probabilities (i.e. flopping a set, a flush draw arriving etc.) and hand ranges and how to exploit your opponents mistakes through this knowledge.
5. knowledge of human psychology and perception of so called "table dynamics"
 
I maintain that most people have no problem with point 4 and 5, but what would prevent them from becoming a successful poker pro are points 1 - 3.

Indeed. I've read somewhere (can't find the source) that for every 1$ winning players withdraw from online casinos, the casinos themselves earn 20$ (in online poker that is).

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!

So is the belief that governments are necessary and in fact desirable for human societies to exist.

And while there is not much historical evidence suggesting a government-less society would or would not function due to absence of data, there is in fact a humongous amount of evidence that governments not only fail to deliver on their promises of security and fairness, they are incapable of doing so due to their very structure, which inhibits information flow and direct feedback. And let's not forget the endless atrocities causing the death of millions and poverty for billions which would arguably be impossible to achieve without government.

The cosmic grandfather of christianity has been replaced by the big brother of the government.

It is a monotheistic religion still and those denouncing it must face ostracism as blasphemers.

I am convinced that education is detrimental to all but a few specific sorts of symbol-manipulating intelligence. People who have been highly educated by institutions of education seem to display a fundamental lack of insight into the broader context into which their small area of expertise is embedded. Furthermore there is the matter of certain types of behavior having been reinforced by the process of education, which are in general detrimental to understanding.

So remember kids:

Stay in drugs
Don't do vegetables
Eat your school

You should. Especially Discordianism. The way you disagree with lots of people and your enthusiasm for it would make you a wonderful pope!

See, even chartbuddy has been proclaimed a Discordian pope already!

Don't worry, Discordians are forbidden to agree with each other.

Of course, you are free to disagree with that rule.

Some relevant quotes:



Hope that doesn't make matters any clearer.

A pope is somebody not under the authority of the authorities...so, yes!

Adam:


Shroomskit:


falllling:


JayJuanGee:


justusranvier:


mmitech:


empowering:


aminorex:




and of course, me:

Actually, this is 9000 so you're wrong

Haha 

Bitcoin - the centipede of currencies!

swimming pool formation at 5min chart! Bullish!

gives credence to the idea that that big wall got at least partly taken out by some bullish whale who wants to hodl those coins and thought it was a good slippage-free entry point.

I'm not a trader but I feel like a turning point has arrived.

The slaying of ManBearWhale!

Disclaimer: I did not make this video

Let's reminisce about the last time we spent in this price range

we're too busy thinking in either/or mode, true/false dichotomies, confusing our maps with the territory, assuming everybody uses the same dictionary and eating our menus instead of our dinner.

340 wall taken out this has some steam

mmitech brings good bearish points to the table I just wish he wasn't so smug about it.

If he means well and wants to tell truth as he sees it (as he asserts) he's hurting his cause by presenting it in an often offensive manner which makes people overlook his points and focus on the delivery. Self-image won't let us agree with somebody who we perceive to be disagreeable and if he turns out to be right, we will hate him for that. Some people find joy in that though, are you one of those people, mmitech?

Fair enough, thanks for your perspective. I'd add that be careful to follow your own advice about being emotionally invested - as phoenix1 pointed out, attitude can be an investment, too. In the end if you'll get to tell the bagholders "I told you so", what you'll be deriving pleasure from is human suffering.

I must admit that your style of writing comes over as "I am smart for recognizing the truth and you are stupid for deluding yourself" but then again you have turned out to be right, so far


Quite possible. Name-calling just furthers division by oversimplifying. I imagine being called a deluded bulltard cultist all day long AND having the price go against you must hurt as well  

By the way while I am generally bullish on BTC but I don't want to be labelled a bulltard, it would hurt my feelings. In fact, I am a permabeer troll  

Pretty much agree with what you say, even though at this point I have to wonder what the majority opinion in this thread actually is  

EDIT: actually according to the current poll the majority is bullish but it isn't by a big margin.

I've always wondered about this statistic. Thanks for sharing

sounds fun but I suggest you use real beer this time

It's because the trolls are gone! Remember, bears feed the most just before retreating for their winter hibernation.





shhhhh, the bears have gone to sleep now...slowly move the rocket a bit sideways where it can blast off without waking them

watching Andreas talking to the Canadian senate committee.

CANADIANS ARE SO POLITE!

Thank you, thank you, thank you...

1K wall appeared at 375, followed by market buy to 379.99 then promptly disappeared.

If we stay at this level for a couple of days it will form a cup and handle. Do honeybadgers give a shit about stuff like that?

6h

I'm just a dog though so I have no idea what I'm talking about

I approve of this post




you forgot blowstamps

I'd just add that it's a shame that it's called "feminISM" - any "-ism" implies ideology and dogma. I'd rather call it "being respectful of everyone and their individuality" but that doesn't market very well, does it? Nowadays we end up in a situation where often men can't be considered victims of sexism, sort of like white people can't be victims of racism. It's bullshit, but bullshit makes the flowers grow...

yep, those sort of girls are doing themselves and their fellow women a disservice by discrediting a relevant philosophy in the eyes of the public.

I'll gladly admit that many of our current societal problems stem from a certain imbalance between men and women. And I don't only mean stuff like "there's not enough female CEOs and heads of state" but our very culture (collective operating system) is heavily biased towards values traditionally considered to be male. This goes back hundreds of years and I'd pin down patriarchal, monotheistic religions as the main culprit. Just look how afraid those people are of everything female. From catholic priests refusing anyone without a dick being their peer to muslims which cover their "possessions" in burkas so their neighbor won't covet them.

That being said, reversing the polarity and going to the other extreme won't solve shit. Do white people need to become slaves in order to atone for what they've done to black people?


One of the many reasons why our current cultural and economic model SUCKS. In this case there are no incentives to create permanent solutions. Creating problems and maintaining them is so much more profitable.

That was me. It's happening. I should start trading lol.

OK that's it, this is the bottom. Buy buy buy!

THIS.

I'll add my theorem: whatever people say about themselves without being prompted is usually the polar opposite of how they behave.

When someone won't shut up about how wrong it is to cheat on your spouse, watch the fuck out lol 

Ah, relationship observer 


This is wonderful advice. There are no perfect men, just as there are no stupid people. There are just men who behave perfectly in a given situation and people who have done something stupid on occasion. There is no inherent essence of perfection or stupidity in either of them. Just a process and our moral judgement of the process. I suspect this has something to do with the structure of our language(s), wherein we describe people as nouns (a static, permanent, object), instead of verbs (something dynamic and changing). To quote Buckminster Fuller: "I seem to be a verb"

So yeah, don't try to find the perfect man/woman. Instead, work hard and be conscious of behaving in ways which will inspire the striving for perfection in others.

Adam even if your wife leaves you BOB is still with you and you SHALL HAVE SLACK!

Now the text below your avatar makes so much more sense

actually all of this is bullshit. In order to determine whether a woman will be attracted to a man, the Godess of Chaos rolls a 64 sided die and proceeds from there. Confidence, money, looks, kindness, sense of humor etc. are just propositions to keep men busy, because if they realized the truth THEY WOULD STOP TRYING! (and where do you think all of the technological progress comes from if not from men trying to impress women?)

Oh bears...you've had your moment. Plenty of them actually. More than many of us thought possible. And you've gotten used to it. Used to laughing at bulltards, cultists and hodlers and being right time and time again. Maybe thinking how much smarter you are. But pride comes before the fall and the time has come. Maybe you have forgotten but being a bull is much more fun anyway - don't wait for too long

DISCLAIMER: I don't trade. Hodled through April 2013 and hodling now. Buying some with spare fiat, spending some whenever possible. DONATING all the freaking time. Derping around the forums, having a laugh and educating all of my friends. The way it is supposed to be - at least the way I see it.

BY THE WAY have you seen "The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin" yet?

here is the torrent for the HD version:

http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/11183060/The_Rise_and_Rise_of_Bitcoin_-_HD

and here is the donation address:

https://blockchain.info/address/19xb2pAzyv7feFkBhbh3n3rtBJ9JPTufm

Watch it first, donate later. And tell all your friends. This documentary is a wonderful first look into the many complexities of Bitcoin and is bound to make lots of people bit-curious.

yes indeed it can but I'd rather promote the crypto way of doing things. Enjoy content without any obligation of payment. Pay what you can afford later. This is the way of the future and here we have a wonderful chance to promote it. So far we're doing a decent job with 300+ transactions, totaling 5+ Bitcoins having been sent to the address during the last couple of days. I'm sure we can do better

They seem to have used this address for some different purpose back in 2013 and 31BTC got transferred away from it on April 6th 2014. The rest of the transactions start on the 9th of October, when the documentary was released.


I agree that this is a valid point and I'm glad that the alternatives for the neophobes are out there. I just happen to think that this way of content distribution, enabled by crypto, is a wonderful, liberating force which, if widespread, could provide at least supplemental income for lots of people with artistic hobbies. Something very welcome in this age of disappearing job opportunities caused by technological progress.

I have written about this topic before here:

How information can be free

This is the future. Take your smartphone and pay for your groceries, tip your waiter, donate to your favorite artists and support worthy causes like the fight against disease and poverty. The technology is here. The infrastructure is being built at a rapid pace. The only thing that is lagging (as usual) is our collective operating system - our culture. So spread the word. I can't find many better ways how to show Bitcoins amazing potential to people than by donating ANY amount of money in seconds to causes like this one.

This is truly inexplicable...what reason could there possibly be?

406 wall eaten in one gulp

414 eaten in another gulp...we have a bear slayer on stamp, just keeps taking out those walls

I assure you that absolutely nothing is outside of this thread's scope.

Do you guys remember moleculars matrioska cup and handle theory of price recovery?

If we stay in the low 400s range it will start to play out imo 

So yeah...some dumping going on

This. What confuses people about this is how long the long run really is. When you think you know...you don't.

Source: over 3 million poker hands played

FTFY

haha I wish I could send tips via bitcointalk posts, this made me laugh 

confirmed.

Bitcoin is maturing. Last November we were knocking down these price levels like Spartans. This November we are much more gentlemen.

wow