Rather: the guy you bought from (if he got for free) won 300$, you won 300$, the chap you sold to won 300$, ahd the chap he sold to lost 900$.

and therefore he is an all out loser....having been trapped and still is going to be plundered  by Mark and his buddy - criminals at TBF !

Yeah, let's build them! Let's take your knowledge of building roads, my knowledge of building roads, and combined, I'm willing to bet that we'll have a total of zero knowledge of how to build roads. Since we can't do it, someone will have to. But that someone is going to want to be paid for their investment/hard work, so you'll probably have to pay tolls every few miles. Oh, wait, some people can't afford those tolls. Those people better stay home or get ready to walk it, because they're fucked.

The same logic can be applied to pretty much everything else. It's a good society...for those who can afford it. But hey, at least we don't need those poor deadbeats mooching off our roads and having police protection and shit. That's reserved for the people who deserve it. That's for the people with wealth.

Dreams and reality rarely intersect.

Sure, they'll have more money and be "makin' it rain" with all the extra proceeds from not paying taxes. Except, oh wait, their wages will probably be less than the taxes they would have paid, since there won't be any government mandated minimum wage anymore. "Oh, you want $7 an hour? Sorry, this dude's willing to work for $4. Can I get you to come down to $3.50?" That's before we consider all the price collusion they'll now face at the stores they buy goods at. They might be able to barter, but if they can't afford the privatized protection, who is to stop them from getting robbed?

This is assuming you don't mean that "omg I want the government to die so we can live survival of the fittest style" kind of anarchy. I know others tend to toss people into that mold of anarchy as soon as the word comes up, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't want to pull out your bat and shotgun and win your food the old fashioned way, but if this IS what you meant, I imagine would leave most of the poor pillaged and murdered inside of 2 months by other poor, since the victim can't afford the protection and the thief can't really afford food. Presumably the thief will be "fitter" than the victim. EDIT: This should be addressed to the 2nd guy, not you.

See why this situation sucks for the poor?

We're both speculating, to be sure, but it's definitely not as simple as some of you are making it.


Please show me where I said that. I said SOMEONE will have to do it, and they're going to want to make something for it, which is understandable. The problem comes for those who can't afford it, and read my logic above for why they likely won't be able to.

Especially when the population is divided into a million little factions.  Nobody trusts each other so cannot accomplish anything without big brothers help.  The best way to sort that out is smaller borders.

US seems to be faring pretty damn well with its 300 million. Germany too.

Agreed. But the argument becomes a bit nuanced then, no?

"Statism doesn't work for very large countries".

And the conclusions (assuming the above is true) would also be a bit more subtle: you could fix large dysfunctional nation states either by breaking them down into more manageable units (c.f. "Bioregionalism"), or by reducing the power of the state. In which case I suspect a break-up into smaller sub-nations is becoming more likely as well.

Or corporations choke job offerings for a while, until people are outbidding each other to work for bottom dollar. How certain can you be that will not happen?

Well put, Octaft.  

I was going to make some similar point about pie in the sky about some of the simplistic points that some posters are making when they believe that "public" services are going to be voluntarily picked up by private entities in the event of NO government.  And, our example need NOT only be roads, but that is a good one just to illustrate a point on one topic.

Accordingly, in order to evolve in that direction of potentially less government (whether we can ever make it to NO government would be another story), we would need to plan, rather than willy-nilly elimination.

It HAS been invented.  The bitcoin network itself is a distributed autonomous corporation.

Yeah, fuck those assholes who like, need to drive to work and feed their kids and shit. They don't deserve jobs if their job doesn't pay them enough to pay tolls.

Unskilled labor does not pay very well, and it would get much worse without a minimum wage. What you would be talking about are the homeless, but even people with jobs often struggle, and working for $4 an hour, tax free as it may be, will not help very much.

I'd put greed and sex far before fighting.

introduced her to Litecoin already?  cause BTC is out and only in the hands of criminals 

JPMorgancoin? lol. I can't wait for it.

woowowowo  

-> http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-proves-just-the-tonic-london-gin-distillery/


BULLISSHHHHHH

Its the BBC, so there arent any ad's, thats kinda the point - the brits pay tv tax for it, so why should anyone else get to watch it for free who hasnt paid?  (thats the govt sentiment, not mine -before you shoot me down!)

You can't. They turned off the ability. Apparently it was used as an attack vector to hack the site or something, so they just disabled the ability for people to update them. I suppose one day they will actually update the website, and you can add one then.

point proven?

Who's the white American?

In other news...have you already heard the Ode to Satoshi? Great song! 

Why is huobi inching up now but bitstamp still going down? I thought the chinese were the reason we were going down? Is any of this news even confirmed?

Well his place is definitely hopping more on down days than up days it seems recently.

Today, a ghost town.

People were talking about how they sold yesterday for lower than they bought to get in at a lower price. Its a great idea until the price goes up, then you are fkd.

This is where I am and haven't gotten my first btc yet...waiting on the verification. Scared it'll end up at 900 bucks by Monday or Tuesday when they finally hook me up.  

Curious about something if anyone here might know...I read somewhere in this forum something about the value of btc being coded in the math, that it can always be known how much it will be worth and how it will increase in value due to the code or whatever and that it's coded to increase exponentially. If that's knowable because of the code itself then why all the speculation?

Right - I know it isn't predictable to any given day, but it seemed like what I read was about we'll always know what btc is worth in real value, not artificially inflated or deflated, and based on - which is where it's sketchy but I *think* it was based on something like how many people are buying or making transactions the value is calculated so the ups and downs are knowable.

I've read so friggin much on here it's hard to remember it specifically but that was the impression it gave me - that the match behind bitcoin provides some calculation that tells what the value is and going to be based on use or something.

Anyway, no problem...just curious Thanks!

I have read sooooo much stuff (even read over half of THIS entire thread - dedicated n00b yo) - so yeah I definitely got crossed there, though it would've been even cooler of Satoshi if he'd have just coded the whole thing to make everyone financially secure and never impoverished since clearly he was already a genius level nerd  

Who will all instasell to buy some food crashing the price to 0 

Much bored.
-> ignorr

SSL been compromised 10 years ago, who cares  

No, you assumed that some "bad" miners would try do that in order to destroy bitcoin or whatever, and claimed that the "good" miners would not let them do that.  I am asking about your "good" miners.  is the 21 M BTC limit good for them?

And how the hell I'm ever going to guess correctly at when the "best place is?"

The whole reason I sold at 400 was to try and come back in at a lower point. All that did was waste money and energy if I really believe in a long-term hold of btc.

Its very weird, I know the LTC rally is normally slightly delayed behind BTC but its gone down if anything since BTC started to rally.
 
Worried about sidechains? Or maybe with some of the other innovative alts, the fact that LTC only has a faster confirmation time doesn't really matter?

investors doesn't give a shit about the mining algorithm or about block re-target and BTW ASICs are only good for the network security, Litecoin is the most successful and original alt and IMO investors are looking at it as an alternative market that can take off soon.

Agreed, I don't believe anything these jokers here say.  Nothing but verbal diarrhea in order to justify past decisions or else attempt to manipulate others for future gains.

Well, I guess ChartBuddy is a pretty straight dude...lol

Prepare for amazing analysis: You will get a lot more manipulation from people with few coins compared people with many coins. Newbies with a few coins have a lot more at stake and will therefore do anything to manipulate the market any way they can. It is the same with forum activity and post count. Members with lots of post will always speak their honest opinion. Think about it: They have been in the game for a long time and many of them only trade to pass the time (not to make $). Giving sound advice on these boards is basically one of their philanthropies.  

On a related note: Do not put trolls on "ignore". If you do you will miss out on great entertainment, says newbe :-)

Localbitcoins prices are all over the place. While there is not much below the mean price, there are many transactions recorded far above the average or the price of other exchanges. The data on this exchange site would be easy to spoof - they never see the government currency, so an individual could simply "sell" bitcoins to a different account of his at an inflated price.

Most traders on this site use a formula for their pricing, such as "xxx exchange + %5" or "xxx + yyy exchange 24 hour average", so the pricing should reflect a slightly delayed pricing on other exchanges.

Here's a live chart to turn this into something useful though. Underneath the noise, you now see the 60-minute weighted average, smoothing the amounts and giving the actual trade volume importance. Also, that the exchange rate still appears higher.

The volume is notable, but insignificant compared with the larger exchanges which enable high-frequency trading. The average daily volume for the last month is about 500 BTC, compared 17000-20000BTC on bitstamp and btce.

When 1W supports, then it is confirmed.
Then again, the chance will be missed to buy cheaply.

Well, we keep waiting for the "killer app" in the developed world. Something that makes it simply, easy, fast, safe and effective. Circle.com, am I talking to you??

Meanwhile Bitcoin has more advantages in the non-developed world. But getting it there in a way that is meaningful is a entirely different task.

There is a gap that still needs to be filled and no one has filled it yet.

12h/1d macD look like the huge dump is just around the corner

What kind of poll is this? Any answer can fit to me. Precious metals doesn't have value for me. I only invest in Bitcoin and Litecoin. They are like gold-silver to me.

Rpietila said 403$ could be seen. I hope it will turn back up from that point at least.

Oh man I am feeling so disillusioned with BTC at the moment just seems to be going one way and never comes back to the last consolidation/support level. Waiting for my break even price (if it ever comes) then I am outta here!!!

Congrats. Mine is only -(low 3 figures).

Bitcoin is banned by the federal government and if you are caught owning bitcoin, you pay a fine of 2,500 per coin.

China dump and the Stamp sheep following.

I was just arguing the same thing with someone on this forum.  I look forward to checking out the vid.  Thanks alot for sharing.

Antonoplis is great, but he overlooked a few issues on why deflation would not be a problem, namely that Bitcoin is not and likely never will be legal tender. The supply of bitcoin is finite but the supply of cryptocurrency is not. If there is not enough liquid BTC, then BTC derivatives or something like litecoin can fill the gap.

In general, you are correct, but let's say you wanted to buy a couple of supertankers worth of crude oil tomorrow and to pay for it with bitcoin. You couldn't easily acquire enough bitcoin to do that without seriously disrupting the markets, especially if the seller was going to cash out to fiat at the other end. You'd need to use a futures contract to avoid paying too much or too little.

So let's say I go onto a website to buy cocaine. I see an ad for cocaine, and contact the seller to buy it. How was I in any way pressured or entrapped to buy cocaine? I clearly was seeking out a way to buy cocaine, and almost certainly would have broken the law regardless of whether that person was an undercover cop. Now replace "cocaine" with "bitcoins" and it is the exact same situation. You absolutely did not go to localbitcoins with the express intent to not buy bitcoins, just like you didn't go onto that drug website to not buy cocaine.

There are some gray areas regarding entrapment. This is absolutely not one of them. Even if the ad was sent to me directly regarding the sale, as long as they didn't keep hounding me after I said no, it would not be entrapment.

That is a valid opinion, but not the way the law currently sees it.

He picked that one ad for a reason. Perhaps a better price or more convenient location. Doesn't matter. It's that one ad he responded to and he wouldn't have responded to it if it wasn't there. Whether or not he would have responded to a different ad is irrelevant. He's not being charged with responding to a different ad. Good luck convincing all 12 jurors, including the one who has the capacity for independent thought, that you are prosecuting an illegal sale that would have occurred without a seller.

You do realize that nothing needs to be certain, only "beyond a reasonable doubt" to get a conviction, right? If someone goes on a website designed to distribute something, then purchases that something after seeing an ad, it's pretty reasonable to think that they intended to buy that something regardless of which ad they read.

To say that it is an unreasonable assumption would surely be independent thought, but independent does not mean correct.

EDIT: Let's try this with something legal that isn't bitcoin to see if it sticks. I want to buy the most beautiful bow for my daughters birthday present. I go on etsy or some shit and start looking up bows. I see this one ad with this terrific bow, it's so beautiful and perfect! So I buy it. Wouldn't it be reasonable to say if I didn't see that ad, I would not have simply given up on buying bows, but rather would have bought a different bow?

One of the biggest questions is whether you tried to resist the crime, so the fact that you "couldn't resist" necessarily makes it not entrapment.

Incorrect. The police can flat-out lie to you and still have it not be considered entrapment. It's when they harass you over and over until you eventually cave that is considered entrapment, or when they threaten you in some way to the point where it would be a reasonable assumption that you committed the crime out of fear.

Stated generally, prohibited inducement "includes soliciting, pro-posing, initiating, broaching or suggesting the commission of the offense charged.

We're reaching game!

We will know when CCMF is no longer followed by "?" but by "!!!1" 

Top 10 Wealthiest People Under the Age of 40 in the World #8

Huiyan Yang is one of the richest people, not only in China, but the world. This billionaire’s net worth is estimated to be $5.7 billion. Yang made her billions by being the daughter of the founder of real estate developer Country Garden Holdings. Only 31-years-old, she is also the majority shareholder in the company.

Despite being a Chinese national, Huiyan Yang graduated from Ohio State University in 2003. Shortly after her graduation, her father transferred the majority of the shares of Country Garden Holdings into her name. When the company made its IPO in 2007, the capital raised from the IPO skyrocketed her net worth. Her company’s IPO generated more capital than Google did with their IPO. This made her the wealthiest woman in all of China at the age of just 26 (at the time).

Huiyan’s father, Yang Guoqiang, is one of the most successful businessmen in all of mainland China. Huiyan’s company is a real estate company that controls a lot of important real estate world wide. The net worth of her company is estiamated at times to be upwards of $17 Billion.

Read more at http://americanlivewire.com/2014-03-03-wealthiest-people-under-the-age-of-40-8/

Big pumps :-D

I like this one

Can anyone remember the link to the collection on train pics? Been looking for it for ages now but havent needed it much the last few months. 

It will fly away, you only need some imagination to fuel it.

re:your signature, providing people with the means to give you money is not necessarily begging

I do not recall a weekly ema cross last year.

Thanks for this.
After staring at these forums for months on end and watching the overall price of BTC fall during that time it was really great to see someone speak in such a way as to fill me with complete confidence that the future of Bitcoin is looking bright.
HOLDING till the end.

What color is the sky on your planet?

These properties did not exist before bitcoin. Some people would rightly point out that many of these properties can be duplicated. There is, however, one extremely important factor that separates bitcoin from any other digital coins on the horizon: the protective shell created by the network that prevents it from being hacked or commandeered.

Im not sure I see what your saying. This is the 1w chart...



How is the latest MACD candle green? They have to cross for that to happen.

What is so difficult about a safe bitcoin wallet? All you have to do is write down your key somewhere, put it in some encrypted file, or remember some way to hash out your key or hash out a brainwallet password. Anyone putting a serious amount of money into bitcoin should have the time to figure out how to do this.  Meanwhile, if you invest with SecondMarket, you take the extra unneccessary RISKS of your funds being stolen by SecondMarket, seized by the government, lost to bankruptcy, lost to hackers, etc. and you can't even use your coins anywhere. You get none of the security features, functionality, or financial freedom that bitcoin provides. I cannot believe people spend extra money to do that. You would have to pay me to do that.

wow. Didn't expect.

I'd be getting very nervous if I wasn't on this train already 

1 week MACD moving the right way, gonna be fireworks when that crosses over.

https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6862


Not sure if real.

It's the equivalent of Satoshi coming along saying he wants to sell all his BTC. Only Satoshi only has 1 million out of 12.8 in circulation, while Jed has 9 billion out of 17. I wonder what will happen.

I'm hoping he'll publically destroy them (send to invalid address)

Because destroying them is the fairest thing to do, this would divide the wealth over current holders of Bitcoin, those people that took the risk in the first place. Randomly giving them to a certain group of people who did nothing to deserve that is completely and utterly unfair. I like to believe Satoshi shares my view on fairness

In my opinion there is no way to do this fairly (who will receive and who won't? There will always be an argument against it) and therefore doing so will result in the opposite effect.

The reason I jump on this so much is the damn socialistic parties in my country who can't seem to understand the difference between "fair" and "equal" and therefore think it's fair to rob people.

I don't think you were around last time when I recommended reading this for those who seek to understand Bitcoin

http://principiadiscordia.com/

The FSM is fairly late to the game (Still good fun though). I think Discordianism predates the Subgenius thing but I'm not sure and don't care.

It's Friday. Have a hot-dog

This is old hat for those who've been around for years.

For those who've never seen double digits, let alone pennies, enjoy the show.

***pours a glass of shiraz, rolls a fatty, and wishes he had more popcorn***

I don't get all the excitement about such a small price rise. This valuation is still only 1% of what it needs to be...

lol, what a noob (no offense man, meant in fun) it means CHOO CHOO MOTHER FUCKER

Or they would point out, as I do now, that every sharp move up is inevitably followed by a sharp move down at some point, especially after a pretty devastating bear market which made a lot of investors bearish enough to just wait for a point to get out of the market at an opportune point.

But, yeah, we're not there yet. There's still steam left in this move.

Once upon a time, the majority of crypto investors had not experienced the burning side of a p&d.  Not true now.  Today, to have staying power, at a leading tier marketcap, a coin has to have compelling features.  LTC does not.  I expect DRK to fail on its snake-oil promises, eventually, but I expect it to outperform LTC by a nautical mile for a long while, perhaps forever.

Yes, LTC has historically lagged BTC and overshot its spikes.  I expect most of that positive beta will be embodied by other alts with better distinctives this time.  NXT and MRO are obvious candidates (leaving DRK aside for the moment).

I don't know. you were calling for a dump back to 550 and now you're saying that dumping at 600 is stupid.

I respect that you can change your mind whenever you like, but just don't try to pretend like you know what you're talking about.

(*edit*- sorry shroomsy, that was a bit aggressive. I don't mean to be mean, I'm just mad that I didn't get more fiat in when it was cheap. just like always.)

There is a difference between making stupid trading decisions and selling because it's your income. You have to eat right.

Why would we need to go to 540 to go higher?

Get ready for a shakeout to 555.

Yes based on the latest intraday trading patterns we can deduce that mass adoption has suddenly occured. It wasn't mass-adopted the other week before the downtrend broke but now it is. The mass-adoption occured overnight.

We went back where we were 2 days ago and the bears are ready to celebrate? Are they really that pathetic?

Its nothing to do with bears in general being 'pathetic'; I was pointing out that TERA got a lot of unnecessary criticism yesterday but it turned out her (?) prognosis was correct.  

Why not give some credit where due, rather than blindly lashing out?

Technically it is possible. If the remaining coins are lost (eg sent to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE by mistake), and all other world currencies become obsolete, then that last remaining bitcoin would represent all the wealth in the world.

Did weekly MACD crossed yet?

You miss the point.

Meh, I suspect most of it is just that people want to move elsewhere and don't want the IRS permanently attached. Some will see some tax advantages (legal or otherwise) from renouncing citizenship and some will avoid legal issues by doing so (the aforementioned account closures for example). Some likely have never set foot in (US) America (A whole lot of Canadians are American citizens by virtue of one or more parent, for example) and are finding their lives complicated by these intrusive laws.

It is not a huge amount of people as yet, it's true. But it's indicative and the majority of these people are likely bright and high earners. They are taking their wealth and acumen elsewhere. Not to mention that the US was meant to stand for freedom and all that whatnot (Yes, that hasn't been the case for some time).

Renouncing US citizenship is both a PITA and difficult so I suspect there's not a whole lot of protest renunciations.

The whole citizenship thing is odd too. You can get dual citizenship by birth easy enough. I could get American citizenship and keep my British no problem but an American wanting to become British would have to renounce their US citizenship. It's just whatever the local laws demand, really.

Just out of interest, what would the place you are do if you were born while your mother was vacationing in the US (automatic US citizenship there)?

Yes. But if your mother returned home soon after you were born, you would surely receive a citizenship from that country. Yet you would still be an American citizen by US laws.

No, I'm talking about while you're still a baby. Think vacation.

I am not certain, but I thought US citizenship meant you were expected to pay tax on all your worldwide income, whereas many other countries just tax you for what you earn in their own country if you are a citizen.

I lived in the US but didn't get a green card (g/f offered to help) because of likely tax implications - but this was a fair while back.

This might account for the renunciations (just the very rich!)

The MACD did not cross

Well, we have a major disagreement here.

The gov exhibits behavior suggesting that its goals are precisely the ones you've mentioned. Now it might not have been a conscious choice by any individual or group of individuals to make it so (which helps explain the persistent myth of the "government as servant"), but there we have it. You say it's selfish and thieving people using the gov for their own purposes. I say the very structure of gov provides incentive for such behavior and prohibits honest and non-corrupt behavior.

And government as a monopolistic, hierarchical structure with the legal monopoly of initiating force will be abandoned one day, believe it or NOT

But first stable, proven, decentralized alternatives with a track record of superior efficiency need to emerge.

When Dan Brown, the current chairman of the Standards for Efficient Cryptography Group, was asked about this, he replied: “I did not know that BitCoin is using secp256k1. Indeed, I am surprised to see anybody use secp256k1 instead of secp256r1.” If secp256r1 is actually compromised, then since Bitcoin is one of the few applications that is using secp256k1 instead of secp256r1, Bitcoin has truly dodged a bullet.

I honestly thought that miners, with all they have invested and have to have invested these days would not be so stupid as to let this come about. Maybe it's time to diversify a little.

No official statement yet. They probably turned off some of their units.

You miss my point, I dont disagree with correcting bigger evil. I disagree with talking your market position while being in the position that he's in. His opinions, ideas and views should carry enough weight without him throwing around his book.

The Future of Money and Business – Part 2
By Scott Cundill on June 23, 2014 in Uncategorized

The off-the-grid businesses revolution is beginning. And we are going to thrive. Off-the-grid businesses operate outside of the conventional banking system. They do not register with the government. They do not pay tax and they don’t supply reams and reams of paperwork just to “comply.”

Well, not completely anyway.

Most intelligent people continue to run their existing finances, while quietly in the background they are building parallel off-the-grid  businesses.

Does this approach sound radical? Before you formulate an opinion, it is vital that you understand and research the background of why businesses are choosing to go OTG.

How it all Began

Centuries ago, merchants traded with physical gold, silver and precious gems. Carrying around this kind of wealth was dangerous, and for this reason the goldsmiths who fashioned and worked with precious metals became the guardians of those metals. They would physically store the valuables in vaults and guaranteed its safety.

Instead of trading with physical gold, merchants traded with pieces of paper that served in effect as money. These were called negotiable instruments because, like a ship negotiating difficult waters, these instruments would be negotiated from one person to another as payment for goods and services. At any time, a person carrying one of those pieces of paper could take it back to the goldsmith and redeem it for the original physical gold.

If a merchant wanted a loan, they could go directly to a goldsmith. The goldsmiths quickly realised that instead of loaning real physical gold, they could loan a piece of paper, or promise to redeem some gold at a later date. This promise, called a promissory note, was a piece of paper with an amount written on it. So confident and trusting were the merchants, that they accepted and traded with written promises instead of actual gold.

Of course the goldsmiths betrayed this trust. They began handing out more and more pieces of paper as “loans” – even though they did not have enough physical gold to cover them. They literally created the money for the loan out of thin air. Ironically, exactly the same principal applies today. Banks fund cartels of debt collectors, liquidators and lawyers who roam the land, collecting debts and auctioning off people’s physical property for a fee. So corrupt is this process, that they even have the audacity to charge interest on these fictitious loans. With massive amounts of riches being accrued, banks can indirectly fund anyone they want. Armies and countries are at their mercy, all funded by money which is created out of nothing.

Welcome to the sordid world of money-lending, otherwise known as debt.

To this day, goldsmiths work from a ‘bench.’ In Italian, the word for bench is banka. This word banka, meaning ‘bench’ became the origin of today’s word ‘bank.’  In fact, the word bankrupt literally means “broken bench” because, if a goldsmith-banker was caught cheating, their bench would be physically smashed in the public square. Today’s banking system originated from those goldsmiths who became exorbitantly rich thanks to a monumental scam. 

Exactly the same process happens in banks today. Only this time, there is no gold or silver or precious gems at all to back our currency. Our ‘money’ is a complete legal fiction. It is a fabricated belief backed purely by the false-confidence of the trusting masses.

People begin to wake up

There was one serious flaw to this perfect plan: there were far more pieces of paper circulating as money than there were actual gold and silver in the vaults. If everyone came and collected their real gold and silver at once, there was nowhere near enough to pay all of them. In order to perpetuate this monumental scam, the bankers (now known as banksters), would lobby to have laws passed that would limit the amount of gold that could be collected, and when. They also did their best to ensure that life was too dangerous to ever allow people to walk around with physical gold. And, above all, they had to keep this secret from the masses, which is why today’s school and university textbooks that teach banking practice are incorrect (see http://www.newera.org.za/our-economic-textbooks-are-wrong-says-bank-of-england/).

Anyone with a bank account is on the receiving end of this debt nightmare. Never before are so many people under so much pressure to earn money, pay tax, pay traffic fines, pay school fees, pay for petrol and electricity hikes, etc.

So now the fight-back kicks in. 

A solution: Off-The-Grid Business using Alternative and Crypto-Currencies

For centuries, the banksters have been getting away with their scam. I discussed this in part 1. When a bank makes a ‘loan’ it is not a loan, it is a complete fabrication of brand new money with interest charged on top of this amount. If you don’t pay it back, their well-funded cartels clinically auction your property with a complete lack of moral decency.

But recently, something has happened that the banksters did not expect. The Internet appeared. Clever people who take the time to see the light are creating online opportunities that level the playing field. People are sick of filling out forms and supplying pages and pages of documents just to open an ordinary bank account. They spend weeks trying to register businesses with the government, and are then forced to comply with expensive audits and a plethora of legal mumbo jumbo that binds them into a black-hole of nothingness. In South Africa, there is a term called gatvol.  It literally means “my hole is full” – we’ve had enough!

And so today, many kinds of alternative currencies are appearing. The most famous global currency is bitcoin. Bitcoin is a decentralised peer-to-peer trading system with a finite number of coins in circulation. Because it is peer-to-peer, it cannot be closed down (although the dark forces have tried). Hot on the heels of bitcoin are about 200 other global online currencies such as litecoin, darkcoin, maxcoin, peercoin, ripple and hundreds of other coins.  They are global and running off the Internet as we speak.

Then there are local currencies, or community currencies. Berkshares, Ithica Hours and the Community Exchange System are examples. These local currencies are created by local communities and given to people as payment for benefitting the community. They fix roads, plant food gardens and restore buildings. Instead of getting paid by commercial bank promises (aka ‘money’) the workers are paid with these community currencies. Where does this currency come from? It is created out of thin air by the community, thus replacing the interest baring loans, also created out of nothing, that would have resulted had they used conventional bank money.

We the people need to grasp one very simple concept: we have everything we need to make our country thrive! Do not be fooled by the complicated nonsense of economic indicators and inflation rates, national budgets and balance sheets. All you need to know is this: you are being ripped blind.

Stay tuned for the Grand Finale to this series of articles. Sign up for Part III, and other great articles, at www.scottcundill.com

I like how ripple is just thrown in there and called a coin, and apparently every alternative payment technology is a "coin".

If anything they have improved.

We are at bear trap, right before the steep climb to the moon.

ATH of 1200$ was at take off

PS: Don't cry if the graphs don't match 100%, this is real life not picture on the internet life

they usually spam the 6h or 12h charts this is the 1w chart, this means that the whole Bitcoin thing is looking like a bubble, there is a big chance that price will fall down and than a normal growth will start. translation: no more bubbles. but stable and constant growth.... and I wish that will happen, so most of the greedy bastards here will learn a lesson.

Gotta love how the hash rate grows exponential while the price is moving down lol!

This beast is going places sooner or later..

Says the one without education.... a professor has a noble job, it helps in building a healthy,productive and open community, who am I kidding, a guy like you wouldn't understand what I am talking about.

 I am thankful for all my teachers and professors for all their effort and time they've spent on educating us and giving us the tools to search and find our ways, you could say they are paid for it, but it takes balls, not everyone is born to teach.

Edit: isn't about time you go to your "quality" thread ? isn't meant for your nonsense and pumping schemes ? or you have to spam your shit everywhere ?

Because they want more have no coins & they can't afford to buy them at the current price.

I think that would be called a vending machine.

Maybe they have one in Japan. I've heard they have some very interesting vending machines there.

 

Everyone? LOL

Wow i've noticed that too just now, any annoucment from them? No trade for 20 minutes already.

Well then it seems like an huge lag as the last trades are comming slowly but they show as 20 mins ago.

distributed models like https://bitsquare.io/ could work well.

What makes the situation suspicious is that apparently they usually only kept 3k or so in the hot wallet according to someone who analyzed the address.  Shortly before the "hack" there was a large deposit made into the account making the large theft possible.  How reliable the blockchain analysis is on which the above conclusions are based I do not know but if that happens to be true its hard to imagine how this could be a just a case of a hacked hot wallet.

I agree, but it could be that the coins weren't swept and the thief had to wait for an unusually large amount of coins to be in the hot wallet, but how would he know that would ever happen or that their wouldn't be an even better time to make his move?

What puzzles me is that the crash apparently started BEFORE the theft. Did someone know what was about to happen and trade on inside information? Did the Stamp operators discover the theft and start trading the predictable plunge before disclosing it? Or maybe nothing nefarious happened (other than the theft) and crashes are just a normal part of a bear market. I dunno.

Whatever happened, it worked out for me personally as I had a short position and a bunch of lowball bids in ahead of time. I consider lowball bids with a low probability of ever getting filled sort of like lottery tickets. It makes sense to have a small part of one's portfolio dedicated to bottom feeding.

Like gox coins. I don't understand how everybody thinks gox pumped the price, when instead they were selling non existent coins en masse, Logic says this keeps the price down, because they were flooding the market with coins that were not there (naked short selling).

That's what I'm looking at, in different time frames and intervals.

All the large amounts are being sent to shiny new addresses.

At least we knew where gox was. I still don't understand how Karpeles is alive.

Manipulators should orchestrate a crash around US tax filing time, we all file BTC as capital loss or whatever, then boost that shit bonkers afterwards. Tax returns + BTC gains.

Then never report BTC gains for 2015, lol

"Here to stay..."

http://www.ericsson.com/industry-transformation/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/11/ict-and-the-future-of-financial-services.pdf

The most significant forces for industrial disruption within the financial services industries are more than likely the emerging cryptocurrencies, which allow the creation of trust without government participation. As a result, these solutions can create not just a new financial system but can also trigger entirely new forms of corporate enterprises. Cryptocurrencies hold the potential to disrupt not just financial services but a significant majority of social and governance practices as well. More than just “digital currencies”, cryptocurrencies are also a collection of protocols and transaction programming languages.
.......
Additionally, if the popularity of the cryptocurrencies increases, they may start to replace companies that traditionally have facilitated transactions, such as Visa/Mastercard, as well as banks. This could lead to a restructuring of financial services in many countries.

I know that my advice might not be appreciated, but I think you need to reconsider your position.

If you are feeling stressed, then it's likely that you are over-invested in this little experiment we are participating in.

If you have more money "invested" in bitcoin than you could comfortably afford to lose, then you're doing it wrong.

Just my opinion.

Investment Guide For The American Dystopia:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-12/investment-guide-american-dystopia-go-long-1-short-middle-class

Jay Eisenhower and Matthew Morris of the shareholder rights law firm Grant & Eisenhofer said tens of billions of dollars remain locked up in illiquid "zombie hedge funds" that suspended redemptions. These funds sit on their assets and produce small returns while collecting management fees.

http://www.coindesk.com/changetip-now-allows-facebook-friends-tip-bitcoin/
Wow  

For sure. I couldn't listen to him whatever position he held.

I guess some people find that kind of shtick entertaining.

For all those doubting how amateurish and criminal our exchanges are, tune in yourself: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JIOjeIjWbN

A professional criminal would never slip up, and an honest amateur would not do this. But when you combine both, you get the clusterfuck we have.

I'm also putting Lamb Chops on ignore.

The first and hopefully the last user I'll have to do this to (since I joined in April 2013).

It's awful what's happening to this website and the Bitcoin community. It's people like Lamb Chops who nullify the efforts of those who've achieved so much for the Bitcoin project.

Will those POS terminals indirectly create more sell pressure on illiquid exchanges?

Funny... I call that shit free cash for people who had BTC, LTC or DOGE on May 12th, but wut evs.... You also called Bitcoin going down at $200 the other day  

I'm sooo close I can taste it to being able to traveling from the USA to Europe and not having to convert any USD to EURO.  

Isn't that the point of this?


It'd make it much easier to travel to Europe from America as well!  Not worrying about converting cash and getting rekt by those fees ect.

Soon I can spend BTC at any SF place and then spend that same BTC at any Europe place... that's powerful and the forces to be know it.

Only dinosaur TA can determine the true bottom.

We need more dinosaurs!

*I'm imagining right now a big ass Brontosaurus who had his neck down taking a sip from the lake now raising his head to take a look around*

For those who missed it (time zone UTC+1):


Definitely some big fish. Whether it was just a pump attempt or insider info, we'll see, but I guess I'm not leaving any asks up for the night.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934670.0


think wall st. is here yet trolltards?

what is the flat coin graphic

i thought the NSA created bitcoin. "tongue in cheek"

"A lot of people are keeping all the bitcoins they buy on our platform, until they understand what to do with them," Marinos said. "In their eyes, now they have bitcoins, they're safe."

yes, greece is very interested in btc right now.
if you didnt check it out yet, take a look at the google trend for bitcoin in greece, it has just reached a new ATH  http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin&geo=GR

common sense told him

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

They'll run out or coins to mess around with soon & then the price will settle at what it should be. I always wonder why people would want to keep the price down, it doesn't make sense. Surely if you have/own BTC's you should want the price to go as high as possible, I know I do. I hope there are many shorters shitting themselves at the moment worrying about not being able to pay their bills
Shorting BTC has been a fool proof strategy for over a year. Well not any more bitches, WUT you gonna do now

There will be ongoing "fuck you market" dumps from now until the end of time, roughly on the hour every hour, between 100 and 5000 coins (they're clever though, and split their dumps into multiple quick succession orders so as to make it not quite so obvious to anyone new to the market) and resulting in $1-10 in 1-5 minute losses in global bitcoin price.

It's not early adopters who "need fiat money" in a "hurry". They already have more fiat than they know what to do with and don't dump in a non-stop systematic fashion (they'd long ago have been out of coins) nevermind that they'd be able to get more fiat money if they sold 500 coins over the course of 2 hours than in 2 minutes. And it's not the big industrial miners, most of them have private off market contract buyers. Clearly it's the shorters market makers market manipulators market fuckers take your pick. These people have a deranged obsessive need (and financial motive) to desperately always and repeatedly try to force the price ever lower regardless of what the current price is. Crush the market with 1000 coins (most often borrowed coins) in 1 minute, wiping out everything from current price and down $3 or $4, re-buy at the price you just forced the market to go down by, or more, if you successfully cause a downward cascade from other parties, still have 1000 coins plus an extra couple thousand dollars, repeat perpetually until bitcoin dies.

*oh lookie one just happened as I was typing, about an hour after the last one, and an hour after the previous one, and ...

I'll not guess as to what happens with halving, but I sure hope you're right and yeah definitely agree with you. And it's suuuuper obvious. They aren't even bothering to attempt to disguise the price suppression and haven't for a while. Aside from the consistent practically predictable dumps, I can't be the only one who notices the dozens of identical orders clogging the sell side (14,14, 7, 7, 14,14, 7, 14 lately) which occasionally flip to the buy side to suck up coins once sell momentum has been achieved. Will they be happy if/when they extract 10 million $ out of the market via shorting and drive the price back to $1 a coin, to then have the ability to own half of the entire market? Will they ever have enough coin to cease this activity?

Zoom out. Look at the 3day or even the week line. Then you will have a better idea.

Can someone explain what the 1w MACD is please?

Thanks

yesterday morning looked like a manipulative smash down. keeping bitcoin down at that moment looked politically motivated.

Yeah hahaha, sorry about that, accidental fud I guess, my bad. Happy to provide a laugh. I meant that sarcastically/ironically to insult the shorters (who seem utterly fucking hellbent on crashing price, in spite of the *majority of people* who seem to all want it to go up and expect significantly greater prices). Of course bitcoin cannot die, it's software, it can however be devalued by 200:1 and stagnate there perpetually until obscurity (worst case disaster scenario fundamental tech issue only, of course). I have a tinfoil cowboy hat somewhere out in the garage, so I wouldn't argue against the possibility of intentional suppression of the bitcoin price for geopolitical reasons, rather than for individual profit motive. I'd rather hope it's for profit reason and not political though, hedge fund managers/wealthy individuals are likely better for everyone to be the cause than governments/banks - the former will eventually or occasionally want upward movement, the latter would likely only want total failure.

Banks in Greece won't open this week 

The banks are kinda out of money...

They defaulted on their payments to the Eurpean Central Bank. Greek banks are essentially finished.

I don't think there will be an agreement.

Except there is no drachma anymore, so it would basically be greek IOUs. If you thought bitcoin was unstable...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-07-08/three-things-that-are-moving-today-s-markets

 

Will anyone really be "ready" for an economic meltdown?  We can buy a few BTC, diversify investments, stock up on supplies, etc. . . but we are fooling ourselves if we really think we can be ready for such a thing.  

OK.  So maybe there are few people out there that might be "ready" but the vast majority are not ready.

It gets tricky when you have kids/family.  Selling everything and moving to a farm is not necessarily doable then. I don't have much of a green thumb either so the idea of owning a farm is not pleasant.    I think diversifying into BTC is a good start for those of us that are not able/willing to find ways to live off the grid.

wtf is going on ? xD Insane market !

wtf is happening on huobi?

OMG, i am so glad I didnt purchase  Litecoins yesterday...i was SOO close.
Now LTC, NMC,PPC are falling!!!

Can someone please expaine what happened?
What technique is it?=)

I guess our dreams of a whole country potentially mass adopting BTC in the near future due to a crisis have been shelved...
What is the actual current value of BTC without the greece crisis? it will probably go down? guesses as to price? Ill set some buys slightly below to catch the knife. Dont know what number though :s

I can almost hear the sigh of relief in Greece. Back to business as usual, nothing to see here. Or maybe this is the makings of a modern Greek Epic. Perhaps Bitcoin will become the new hero's quest.

Still a bull market medium and long term. Staying above $240 takes us out of the bear market.

give up. mongolian monster farms will dump at any price to wipe out competition. their break even is around 160, thats where we're heading. l

Agreement was made to open up talks again. Not for a bailout.

ron paul makes a good point why bitcoin would not be a good replacement for the failing 'in god we trust' to print and manipulate dollar, he says: "On reason Greece has been forced to seek bailouts from its EU partners is that Greece ceded control over its currency when it joined the European Union." http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/july/12/greece-today-america-tomorrow/

bitcoin would be just like the euro.. it would not work. only a metals backed currency will work as a replacement for the broken dollar 'interest to infinity' debt slavery system.

here is a scenario that bitcoiners could possibly face.. as the dollar is about to be replace during the "big block of cheese day" when all the cheese is turned into cheesecakes the cheesecakes will be worth less in the new currency. it will be the same for bitcoin because bitcoins will be priced in dollars but dollars will be worth less in the new currency. therefore bitcoins will receive the same haircut as those people who have their cheese turned into cheesecakes.

i still own a lot of bitcoins and i do not believe it will just die... but i no longer believe bitcoins is going to suddenly become some worldwide reserve currency and we are all suddenly going to be buying boats.. the state of Texas is building a gold depository, and not a bitcoin depository... they are demanding their gold from the fed. we will be able to trade metals for bitcoin and vice versa i am sure, but it will be metals that have the huge value more than bitcoin.