Where do you all think the price is going? I never expected for Bitcoin to rebound so quickly after that crash. I figured we would hang out at $300-$400 for a while.

Obviously, eventually. But I am trying to determine whether to buy back in. I sold at $770 before the crash.

How are you moving USD between the exchanges?

Uhh... because that is what usually happens after a mania and a crash. The price goes parabolic and drops back to some floor level. E.g., $265 -> $100; $30 -> $5. that is how it works. This time seems completely different. Based off of previous trends, we should be between $200 and $400 right now for the next couple months until the next adoption wave kicks in.

Look at all those BTC0.01 sells on Gox.

What sucks is that I bought back in above the point at which I sold before the crash - oh, well... at least I got in.

Or I could have held and it crashed to $400 and stayed there for the next 3 months - missing out on doubling my coins. This recent "crash" wasn't a real crash, obviously, but it usually makes sense to take profit and buy in at the lower price point.

It would have made sense two out of the three "bubbles" to do so. This price will crash as well. I am taking profit when it looks like the top and I'll double or tripple my coins on the buy-back.

What is luck about it? If you sold at $250 and bought back at $100 you would have done just as well. If you did the same at $30 even better. Once this rise is done its going back down to $400-$500. You sell once it starts going parabolic and buy in. Its not that difficult. Only thing is this past bubble burst early, so get back in to make profit and let it burst again.

I've already done so multiple times.

What? Bitcoin =/= tulip mania in any way, internet or not.

They die and are pretty-much useless.

It seems like Gox is down too

Crap, I have an open order.

+1

Are they not still down?

This is ridiculous, what the heck is going on? No movement in like 30 minutes.

This looks to be trending down pretty hard.

I think we are headed lower.

If you want us to stop yawning, drop the price lower.

Why would it crash to single digits?

What is the point of this...over and over again? That shizzle changes every second.

This is silly. Price needs to go down already.

This is BS, these idiots just need to let the price drop.

I will be fine with $300.

Just when it is about to drop like a stone some idiot comes along and buys every sell order up to $825 in a second.

No, someone is keeping the price up. No way you get simultaneous massive buys on every exchange at the same exact time.

Some douche with cash to burn that is keeping the price up.

Some big whale is probably trying to liquidate shares without causing a panic crash so he can get top dollar.

If the price does not drop then we are coming closer to the vertical on the S-curve.

Some whale is algo-trading to maintain the price. Whether or not he was responsible for the jump at $450 I have no idea, but this is just complete nonsense.

Just look at the pattern over the past week...

Because the price is being manipulated as it is so easy to do. For example, banks can buy as many coins as they want because of their ability to leverage (print money). They can always maintain enough of the coin percentage to have control over the exchanges, and thus the Bitcoin price.

I wish these idiots would stop announcing Bitcoin to everyone - they probably aren't even buying just talking shizzle. In the meantime they are helping to drive the price up by getting more buffoons into Bitcoin while those of us who really believe in the true purpose and potential can't afford to buy as many coins.

If these whales hold the price up they can keep a larger percentage of the average person from buying more coins.

I was about to buy at $120 but we went from the SH crash to $60 and then up to $900 and here we sit as someone holds the price at $825 with their algo-tradeathon.

No, they have enough Bitcoins to hold the price themselves. There are only some 1 million BTC being traded.

You over-estimate the quality of discussion of the average American family.

Everyone I tell about Bitcoin just says, "Huh..."

And its a blatant bot with those peak and valley patterns.

Cause there is a bot running algo-trades. Look at the pattern on Gox.

Well, we made 5 attempts at $900 and no go. We are going down if this whale would let it drop.

And there will be another sell-off.

Schiff keeps ranting on having a digital currency backed by gold... what is the difference between that and selling your Bitcoins for Gold so long as they are both able to function as currency with a market price? That can already be done with Bitcoin as its supply is already limited.

This rise is just someone (or somegroup) who is pumping the price and they have no control over BTCChina. The last few days movements are obvious algo-trades.

Because it isn't real... it is price manipulation on Gox.

Exactly, this is a pump.

The most disturbing thing here is that it has become obvious that some individual(s) have the ability to manipulate the Bitcoin price.

I sold at $800 on the fist bubble.

The rest of this movement is manipulation by one or a few big players. Its right there for anyone to see in the Gox charts.

And... this recent price increase to $950 is not representative of true growth in Bitcoin, it is being artificially pumped up.

You can't really be that much of an idiot to see that this is not a positive thing for Bitcoin. We want the value to grow organically, not because some bankers who bought all the bitcoins with their printing press decide to manipulate the entire Bitcoin market.

I think the likelyhood of Bitcoin going to ZERO is approximately ZERO%. People just say this to be "safe"...

What good does it do to catch the moon if you don't sell it? You are just going to catch it and let it go.

But it isn't going to go to the moon and stay there, it is going to come crashing down.

+1

No.

Well, I can see that algo-trader is still at work on Gox. At least you can tell when the pumps and sell-offs are coming.

Its working on bringing the price back up now. It basically brings the price up, sells off to form a small valley and then a small buy-back and a large sell-off, then repeats all over again. Its been working for the last week. Even with the large run-up to 1200 the bot was working. Once the large buying pressure lets off you can see the pattern clearly.

Here is a rather sloppy illustration of the algorithm trading pattern, but it gets the point across.



The circle in the lower left shows to clear consecutive repetitions. After this there is a lot of buying and then the pattern resumes clearly in the upper right circle once the "external" buying/selling volume dies off.

Interesting. What did you use to illustrate that?

I wish.

Thanks. Yes, the force sell-outs on that large dip and buy up and sell multiple times then increase the price and repeat. It isn't good, you're right. It means that there is someone or some group who has enough Bitcoins to manipulate one of the largest exchanges.

Thanks. People on here were giving me sh*t for suggesting this earlier.

That is when the pattern started, I think. I haven't at the data previous to that, so I can't say I have observed any other patterns.

What is TA? Trading algorithm?

Its designed to look "organic" but to facilitate profit-making by creating known intervals for the highs and dips. I think it also helps to stabilize the price in periods of low activity.

It is possible if we applied a Fast Forier Transform (FFT) to the data since $450 the pattern would be clear (clearer) through that time.

Not sure if I want to do it anyway. If we were able to "prove" this with some analysis then who knows how far that info would go. "Bitcoin Price Manipulation On Largest US Exchange" -> Crash.

Nice

Perhaps, they seem extremely uniform though.

You can't take advantage of arbitrage because there is no easy way to transfer fiat between the exchanges. BitInstant was the ticket between Gox and BTC-e but it has been down for months.

Get ready ladies... Gox is about to take off.

Up, but slowly over the next day or two.

That is how it starts. Approaching mid Sunday to early Monday we will see much sharper increases. IOW, it is the last chance to buy in if you don't want to be left behind (if you sold out of your position). That was my point. We will hit 1300 before there is any decent sell-off. Actually, there will be no sell-off at 1300 but maybe at 1400-1450.

Well... looks like I was wrong.

Whatever the unit is for daily transactions it should just be called "Coin". That seems to be a fairly popular way of referring to bitcoins.

1000+ Bitcoin sell wall at $1000. Bitcoins are being off-loaded like crazy.

Someone is selling hundreds of coins at lower than the max bid price.

The volume on these exchanges is so low compared to the total bitcoins that there is no way to claim that these prices are the "true" price of bitcoins.

Sell-off seems to be residing.

Why won't my buys go through on Gox?

How the fuck do you buy anything? This is crazy.

Been trying to buy since 905.

Please explain to me how I purchase a market order and specify the bitcoin amount if I don't know what the price is going to be.

What if the amount of bitcoins I specify is more than the current price will allow?

Great, it decided to make my purchase at the highest price point and now we are looking at a correction. Gox sucks mangled penis.

True. But gox is lagging so you can't tell where the price is. I tried to set limit orders for half an hour. I was screwed by gox's shitty fecal engine.

So does it mean that BTCChina must close?

No Chinese bitcoin ETFs is a good thing. That is basically paper Bitcoin.

It would be nice if we could trade this without having to depend on Gox's "Blazzingly Fast" Midas Engine.

Even had you been awake to place orders you still would have missed it because Gox was running minutes behind. so, everytime you placed a buy the price had already moved far away from your bid.

There you have it folks... Mark It!

I tried that over a period of 15 minutes and I couldn't keep up.

This basically means that financial institutions are going to die in China. Why would China promote Bitcoin and then start banning its use?

Gox!!!! Get your damn trading engine fixed!

I think this may be the action of another bot. Once this develops a bit more I will show the pattern.

I hate how Gox takes the fees out after the transaction and does not add them into the purchase/sale preview. Its like, "Surprise! We just subtracted $20 from your sale."

He claims that people are buying bitcoin not because they want bitcoin but only to facilitate taking their money off the exchange. For example, trying to get dollars off of Gox is like trying to wrestle a cupcake from a fat kid.

If the bot pattern that I think may be happening is actually happening, we are going to briefly drop to around 1010-1020 in the next 7 hours.

Just a side note... Gox is the only place I have traded where I lost coins having sold higher than I bought them. Ponder that.

means nothing. Could be just a burp.

Yeah, exactly. But yet I deciphered it and lost coins by buying low and selling high.

What is slippage? Regardless of fee percentage, if you sell higher than you bought and the gain percentage is higher than the fee percentage you should make a profit.

They are limit orders, no market orders.

Short sell-off will commence for the next few hours to about 1010.

Buy back on this incoming dip.

If you want to know what is happening just look at the chart on Dec. 2 - we are going through a replay of that algorithm pattern after the big sell-off. I am guessing it will hit close to $1010 over the next three hours. Maybe lower.

No problem. My bid hit exactly at the 1020 I set 4 hrs ago based on the Dec. 2 plots to play it safe. It may still go lower but didn't want to take the risk. The first algo I noticed started either right at the $450 drop or a couple days after where it plateaued at $900 or so.

Whoever is running the algo switched up about a week back to this new one. It carries the price high to $1200 or so and then plummets the price down to the $850 mark. There is a small rebound with a small double reversal and another small sell-off. It will now start upward toward $1200. Unless it is turned off of course.

That means that the China news only played into the algo creating a much sharper decline than on the 2nd.

I don't know. I just know "he" is on Gox. I guess he or they could be running on all the major exchanges. But even controlling one at these low volume periods is enough to manipulate the price.


He ran it for about a week to a week and a half before but it wasn't as noticeable. Nor were its movements as large as this current one. I expect him to change it up in the next couple days.

We still have another couple hours at these low prices so buy up while you can.

My $1010 prediction was perfect.

It will probably be the ATH or close, so $1240 or so. Uhhh... I have no idea. He could continue running the bot, which would mean a sell-off again; he could switch up to a new algo; natural buying pressure could push us higher; he may have so much leverage he can crash the entire thing... But that doesn't really narrow it down. If we have a period of steady price for about a day or so, there will probably be another massive sell-off. I will probably sell around the $1230 mark to be safe. Just have to wait and see what happens.

No. Everyone else is completely unfazed as well.

thanks. Someone is able to manipulate because of the low volume. I'm sort of trying to decide how much of the current price is market supported. This whole $1250 high could have been the result of manipulation on Gox and BTCChina, despite what everyone wants to think about Chinese and such. Not saying it is for sure...


So, last week I pointed out the algo pattern that continued for about a week or so. I then today realized there was a new algo pattern and based on that pattern made a prediction of how the price chart would proceed on Gox with the exact low and time-frame. The China news was coincidental, the sell-off was coming anyway as a result of the bot. The manipulator is playing with at least BTC1000 or more.

But he continued the pattern for days previously and he has to raise the price to sell-off and make a profit. unless, the manipulator doesn't care about profit. But to bring the price up he still needs buyers and if we are out of them then all the price can do is remain steady or fall, obviously.

There wasn't enough buying pressure to carry this up.

Trading is at a stand-still. Not a good sign.

Lets see what happens at $850.

This could also be an induced sell-off.

BTC450 wall eaten at $950!!!

I just doubt there is enough demand right now to push this thing above the ATH.

There was not enough buy support to push the price back up. If you notice it started to push past $1120 but not enough steam. My prediction of $1010 is about as close as it gets. Of course it was just a guess based on my theory of a large algo trader.

Gox's fees are too high. It is unprofitable to trade there.

BTC950 sold into in like 60 sec.

Gox is under BTC-e or close

There must be serious lag on BitcoinWisdom.

Is that where they try to make you think it isn't as low as it is by replaying the data from 5 minutes ago?

Why does it keep looping back to sells at $875?

Bitcoin wisdom keeps showing old data.

+1

I have watched it go under $850 multiple times now.

What is the price? this is insane. You can't know anything. Its like trading in the dark.

Its more like in those movies where the thieves put the surveillance cameras on a loop so you can't see what is happening.

I'm getting my coins off gox as soon as this is cleared up (if).

I had money ready to buy at some point but all that opportunity is gone since we have no idea what is real and what isn't.

You had to verify to get your coins out? WTF?

do you really have to verify to get your coins off gox now?

Is that everyone? I have not been verified on there. I better be able to get my coins off.

Gox says: "All withdrawals and deposits require account verification." My lord, this is ridiculous. I would never have sent my coins there if I knew that. So I got to send them valid IDs and all sorts of shit before I can get my coins out.

And completely confuse the Gox servers?

So, Bitcoin goes to $800 but because Gox is such a piece of dump exchange no one got to take advantage. Once I get my coins off here I am closing my account for good.

Why would it skyrocket? There was absolutely ZERO buying pressure and then the bottom fell out. Gox went berserk and is the only reason we are looking at $900 right now.

Massive dump incoming, price is stabilizing and no buyers...

We are going below $800.

I sold for profit and am going to buy lower than I sold.

And it has done this many times before crashing in just the last 12 hrs. The price was about to fall through the floor with no sign of stopping - eating thousands of bitcoins in under a couple minutes. The only reason we are sitting here is because Gox engine failed. we have barely moved from the rebound spot.

Who cares if I was wrong. I also left it open to what would happen after correctly predicting it would hit $10. I wasn't wrong yesterday, I was correct. It didn't follow the pattern because there were no buyers which is why I sold out this morning. But who cares whether I was wrong or right? I am just stating here that just because there are short-term buyers doesn't mean they will be there long enough to hold-off a crash. We are on a downward trend right now because the market for Bitcoin is thin at the moment.

Here it comes. Watch Gox go insane again to stop the sell-off. Manipulate the market.

The morons jumping in at $840 cause they think they are getting cheap coins.

It didn't hold last time. Gox suspended the trading with its crappy servers. It was artificially "held".

Were you not here when Gox looped the same trades like 10 times on the charts? When no one could get in any buys or sells because we lost track of what happened after $829?

That is complete trash. They never did that a few months ago. Then they never had me agree to do that before sending coins there. So they have basically stolen my property.

what is happening on Gox now? Getting ready to plummet - no movement is always a bad sign.

How do you all feel about..... $700?

Look at them. They still think $800 is the bottom. Hahaha

Who doesn't want to do that? That is what you are supposed to do. But that isn't the point. It is obvious this is coming down.

I don't know what the bottom is, I just know it is lower than this.

they are talking out of their ass. BoA can't even manage its own financials let alone call a Bitcoin price that took them 4 years to acknowledge having potential.

BTC250 at $780 eaten like a taco at a Texas landscaping business.

No, it is people realizing the ride is over for now and don't want to get caught with monetary losses.

As long as you end up with more BTC than you had at the top, you win.

Monkeys have superior short-term memory to humans.

I know... the bottom must be at $760. OK guys, its all uphill from here. Right, guys?

Not only does Karpeles cause the failsafe loop, but he holds your coins hostage until you give up your identity so he can snitch on you for the government. I hope Gox and Karpeles's coins drown in Atlantic ocean. Some of these early adopters are the greatest evil toward bitcoin's future.

I was nanometers away from buying in at $660.

Its a bounce.

Come on down, Rumpelstiltskin.

You mean half of what some lame ass bank said was the realistic price.

I think a return to our low of $450 may not be unrealistic.

WTF?

The arm of death is forming at $747. Here we go fellas, hang on to your hats!

That is my term for the periods of trading where there are very small trading margins and negligible fluctuations in the price. It forms a little arm-like thing. It generally means the price is about to fall. Like, a lot.

They (Arms of Death) can form and result in decline and then another arm form, more decline, another arm, but eventually it gives way. Big time! We could be seeing another flash-crash soon.

Are you "up" since this whole mania? In dollar terms? If so, sell, and buy lower. It doesn't matter how much lower - just increase your BTC holdings. Take advantage of the price increases to have more capital to get more bitcoin - no reason not to. Don't worry so much about losing some money, just get more BTC for now.

Yeah. I am really thinking this whole rise to $1250 was induced by a Great Whale - he pumped the price with his BTC100,000 bot and has been unloading. The real crash happened weeks ago when we hit $900 and dropped to $450 - he picked it up and carried it to $850 and then beyond. Totally rigged game. IMO.

$300 is probably the absolute minimum.

They didn't lose...

Its coming... ust be patient.

do you have more Bitcoins than when you started? If not, why not?

Why? why do you all do this? When the price of Bitcoins skyrockets to 10x + what it was at you sell and buy back when it crashes back to reality. When you hold, you gain absolutely nothing. You're holding until your 1 BTC is worth $1 million in 15 years from now.

Yeah, no shit. You sell high for more capital to increase your bitcoins. If you don't sell, you wind up with the same bitcoins worth a little more than before. The only way you gain bitcoins is to sell.

Gox is fighting from going under $600

You don't hold when we go through these manias, you sell and buy when it crashes to its senses.

Go up!!! Some idiot keeps trying to sell when we are trying to go up to $700

It is easy... especially when you see the price go from $100 to $1250... You SELL!!!! Then you wait for it to come crashing down and double your coins.

Stop listening to these morons who say it isn't easy, giving the most senseless advice of not taking profit.

Me to. I was hoping we'd be going up a bit. But someone really wants to sell their coins cheap.

Not as many buyers now as there were a few hours ago.

I sold back too soon.

That is what I do and I make coin that way.

You just want to make excuses to justify your decision to hold when it goes up to $1250 and watch it come back down again, gaining nothing in the process.

Gox is under the manipulation of a Great Whale. Has been since we exited the $900 high at the beginning.

Wow! Not even 1 Million coins.

Wait until the press gets a hold of that Story: "Today we talk to the man who manipulated the entire Bitcoin market." Won't be good PR for "the currency that no one can control or manipulate". They need to put some restrictions on bot trading at the exchanges.

It is manipulation of the price... that is called manipulation. If one or a few people can cause the price of Bitcoin to rise and fall by 50%-100% in a day, that is manipulation. There isn't enough volume on the exchanges to over-ride their influence. Because everyone looks to those exchanges for the price, they generally determine the price. We need another decentralized means for price discovery with Bitcoin, maybe that will occur organically as its adoption grows.

If you hold your Bitcoins you cannot gain any - at least with the current increase from the coins you have. Because you always end up with the same amount that you bought. That is common sense.

There is no effective means of arbitrage at this time. The reason we have seen a consolidation of price is due to the levels of support at varying prices on different exchanges. Some exchanges had enough volume to push the price higher than others. Once the price comes down, the percentage difference diminishes the observable nominal price differences. And there was also a large manipulator on Gox, I don't know about the other exchanges.

So... say BTC-e was trading at $100 and Gox $120 - that is only a difference of $20. Nominally, it doesn't seem that big of a deal. But that is a 20% difference. Suppose the price goes up and BtC-e is at 1000 and Gox is at $1200 - that is $200!!!

In the process, BTC-e is gaining lots of buyers because of publicity, Gox may gain some but the percentage increase is in BTC-e's favor because they need less to see a larger percentage of buyer increase. BTC-e went from 2000-3000 people online to 17000. When the price comes back down the difference has been largely eliminated. If it goes much higher again, you will likely see it return.

Damn, BitcoinWisdom is down.

There are basically just enough bulls to keep this price steady.

You mean the dump?

Not mutatis mutandis. Value needs to be justified, worthlessness does not. Price naturally wants to go to zero. You don't need bears for the price to decline but you need bulls for it to increase. There is a reason we call it "price support" - it is because higher valuations need to be supported by buyers. Lower valuations are the default.

Why do I get charged $40 on Gox for a sell at $2300? 10% is $230, 1% is $23, and .1% is $2.3 -> .6% = $13.8.

I have made so many positive trades and made absolutely nothing - I have actually lost money before on trades where I sold for 5% gains. This makes no sense whatsoever.

Best one is still Cyprus anthem. It is the Bitcoin song.

Going down ladies - can't make it past the 980 barrier. It was being pushed up anyway by a BTC580 bid wall.

On our way to retest $600.

I sold because I want lower prices.

I bought at $610. How did I miss the train?

At $950

Brother John F can't make up his mind. One day he is saying we are headed to $3000 and another he is saying we are going to test $400.

People can conduct transactions just fine with only 1 confirm - speed is no issue.

And those who wanted to buy already bought and are skeptical about paying $980.

I like the guy's commentary and he is on point sometimes but he is always looking at TA and drawing different conclusions from day to day.

Do you all think this is just a small correction? or how low are we going?

Did you already sell that position you had at $610 back during the "crash"?

I think we need to be around $400-$500 to get enough new buyers to take this much higher at this point. I know a few people who want to get in but are very hesitant at $1000 or close. something really needs to be done to overcome the psychological hurdle of the whole BTC vs mBTC and all that. No one wants to buy less than a bitcoin, its almost inconceivable for them to see it in terms of fractions.

I did the same as I was prepared for just a bit more decline. Next time I will be satisfied with doubling my position and hold it for a bit longer.

Oh no!!! Here we go...

No! No person is trying to desperately push the price down. the price is coming down because the market isn't supporting a $1000+ bitcoin price at the moment.

Mark it. $200 by Friday.

You and a couple friends ignored him, so you want everyone else to do so? I quoted him once, dude. For fun. Chill....

That is what we do - we don't sleep for days at a time. Get serious or get packing.

People want their money to go a long way. It went from $100 to $1000 very quickly. We need some intermediary before we are at a steady $1000.

I don't think calling them mBTC even will do the trick - it needs to be a unique name and identifiable. I think it was pooched from the beginning, no way to change it now. We are stuck with bitcoin, that is what it is called. People want bitcoin, not millibitcoin.

Its all the guys who think that $915 was the bottom. They think it is ready to go back up now, cause to them there is no way this train is stopping and that its impossible that we aren't headed to $3000 right now.

It shall be called a "Million".

I was ignored for pointing-out obvious deception with Labcoin - so I was labelled a troll and ignored. I have no idea if that is still the case.

It was a mining security that didn't pan-out. It was a scam riding the AsicMiner wave. Well, may not have been a scam but it was hard to tell the difference.

Or are people who think the current price is not supported by the vast majority of the potential market... It isn't just about wanting to buy coins cheaper.

Yep. Either you believe the price is going to endlessly travel upwards from here or you are a troll. A lot of these guys who want the price to go up have admitted to not selling at the highs and are just holding. What do they care if the price is to temporarily go up to $1200 again if they aren't going to take profit?

Like Milli-yon. Not like 1 million satoshis.

The only reason to ever sell-off bitcoin is to buy more bitcoin or buy something you can't yet buy with bitcoin. To just cash out into paper is insanity.

Look at them... they are still trying to push this over $1000. These people are mentally ill.

That was reason talking, but not that it needs to be that low. Insanity is trying 3 times in the last 24 hrs to go to $1000, especially when you see the price tanking. That isn't the time to buy back in and then go up again. There are buyers still trying to ride the euphoria of greed to make profit. that is the point... the bubble hasn't fully burst yet.

But at what price level?

Hey, guys! I have an idea. Lets try to break $1000 for the third time in 36 hrs. Third time's a charm.

Sold at $1228. Bought at $610. Sold at $950. Why didn't I wait to sell higher? Because it isn't going higher until it goes lower. I am waiting for the retards to come out of their delusion and stop trying to buy up thinking they are headed toward $3000 any time soon. Anyone thinking we are still going higher is still under the euphoria of the mania that has burst. That is all this is, that is why the nonsensical push three consecutive times in 36 hrs to go to $1000 - they really believe it is going higher when there are like 1000 people all blowing their money over and over again with expensive coins.

It isn't going over that now. Don't you get it? That is what I am bitching about. There are about 1000 idiots in the world who are throwing their money at these insane prices because they think we are about to repeat what happened over the last 30 days, but it isn't going to happen. All they are doing is delaying the inevitable price decline so people like me who were smart and sold can't get back in for days. I would buy in at $900-925 and sell at $970 for a small profit, if it was profitable. It is not when Gox is taking $40 per trade.

These guys buying now are just going to be sitting on their BTC.05 for the next months waiting for it to return to $1000 or beyond, after they lost half of it in Gox trading fees.

Why would I have sold lower? I sold before the initial burst when it went to $900 - I got out about 15 minutes before it burst at $770. I bought back in at about $700 and sold before the burst again at $1228. It was obviously not going higher, so why let my profits disappear?

These guys are silly on here. They act like it takes a prophet to make basic guesses about where the market is going. When you make multiple attempts to get past $1250 and none of them succeed, you are going down. When a price shoots up 20 or 30% in a day (first burst), you are going parabolic and there will be a massive sell-off. How much is the question. But once it was possible to see the massive sell-off that lead to Gox freaking out, why keep your money in there to get slaughtered?

"Maybe it will work if we can make it hit $1000."

Look at the dude with the BTC500 bid wall pushing the price up.

Wait till the ensuing dump-a-thon.

A manipulator can push the price up for some time though. All they need to do is break the resistance level to tip the momentum in favor of everyone wanting to buy back in looking for the bucks.

Here we go. Its crash-a-thon time.

Relative to the choo choo heads calling for a freaking train ride and this latest boost to 1060, that is a crash. Exactly why we didn't want to buy in to that fake pump and dump.

That blog has been wrong pretty-much on everything.

Uhh... that was a joke, nitwit. Made obvious by the tone. I was quoting someone else.

In fact, if you recall I predicted the last price point before the crash to the 'T' - $1010. I then correctly called the drop while all you bulls were claiming we were headed to 1500. I sold at $1230 and bought back at $610 - its hard to be any more right than that. But even still I don't claim to be right all the time.

"Mark it" is from "The Big Lebowski" - you would have to be culturally illiterate to not understand the reference. And to think I believe we would really be heading as low as $200...

"Mark it..." So no one in this thread mistakes my joke for seriousness...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BdT5mFAk-Y

Well, well, well... What do you know?

Nothing, which is why I have it ignored.

Only, if you are trading on Gox you actually lose money even on a few percent gains. I still haven't figured out how that works.

Gox should be near $700 right now. WTF is happening?

BTC1000s of buywalls on Gox.  Its like people set these buys and walked away and don't realize there is a major price dump.

Gox, WTF is wrong with you?

Gox screwed me out of low prices again when it has absolutely failed to move with a low $100 higher than every other exchange.

How does the Chinese government proclaim to everyone through government videos, the great and amazing Bitcoin, only to outlaw its use a few months later?

They have told merchants that they are not allowed to price their goods in Bitcoin... nor can people purchase bitcoin through their bank accounts. What then is the point?

You guys say this crap every time bitcoin has continued to fall since $1250.

Merchants are not allowed to price their goods/services in Bitcoin.

And Gox refusing to play along.

Gox didn't want to drop, then at the last moment dumped under $700, now it won't go up.

Gox is having multiple personality disorder and I think it is driving me insane along with it.

It is going up in the short-term only to go even lower by next week or so. We are eventually headed to the $400-$500 level - maybe slightly lower.

Make up your mind, China... up or down.

No. It never does. What happens happens now.

On another note... the disconnect between the exchanges is the most difficult thing for me to grasp trade-wise. We need a means of arbitrage.

Gox is hard as Fudge to trade right now... all the drops are delayed relative to the others and there are no rebounds.

A secondary sell-off never happens. There is just "the sell-off".

Watching this fall is like Chinese water torture...

Just bottom out already.

As soon as I went to sleep, the thing took off to $570... total BS. Happens every-time.

I am so pissed right now. Went to sleep when it was at $455 and didn't buy back. Woke up and it is at $540 and now north of $600. Only slept for two hours.

Multiple people here were saying $400-$500.

I love these line drawing sessions... pick two places on a graph and draw a line between them, where ever the line intersects the price axis, that is where the price is going. Hahaha... I've never seen one of those be accurate with Bitcoin.

I think we are due for another short and small flash crash. Trend is still down from here.

I think there will only be one more which will test $300-$350 or near the top of the last "bubble".

Remember this... apparent trends and analysis mean nothing in a rigged market.

I'm still calling we hit $400 on Gox - maybe as low as $350. I don't think this is much more than a coordinated pump to dump some coin.

Someone has successfully applied an antigravity device to the Bitcoin price. It is like a hot-air balloon rising without the voluminous sack that holds all the hot air.

nevermind... this post was a stupidly obvious realization.

The reason people don't understand Bitcoin is that we get too caught-up in the details instead of just saying "its a currency and payment system that gets rid of all those fees you pay with Paypal and credit cards. Here, you set it up like this (download Electrum wallet, then send them some coin and have them send it back to you). There, thats all there is to it. If you want to buy coins setup an account on Coinbase (or other). If you want to accept Bitcoins for your business, setup an account on BitPay and they will instantly be converted to USD. Later."

How we explain it: "Bitcoin is a decentralized, P2P, crypto-currency which allows near anonymous world-wide exchange of value between any two parties. For the first time ever, two people don't need a bank account or a middle-man to transact. Bitcoin is secured by cryptography and miners that crunch numbers to verify the blockchain. The blockchain is a decentralized public ledger which records all transactions. Everytime a transaction is made various nodes confirm the transactions, which eventually get validated once and for all once the miners find the proper cryptographic hash... Bitcoin is going to change the world forever and end the banking monopoly on money and credit and much like email ransacked the post office. etc. etc. "

I am starting to feel that if I go to sleep now I may miss the drop that is coming.

Falling asleep right when Bitcoin hit $455 on Gox was the worst mistake I made. Haven't bought back since.

Bitcoin Bulls -> "Price will go up to $10,000 and beyond without making serious corrections downward on its way there."

Bitcoin Bears -> "Price is currently a bit too high and is due for a major correction. We will eventually get to $10,000 but we aren't going there soon."

If $900-$1200 wasn't a healthy price 20 days ago, it isn't one now.

Uh... we just came crashing down from these prices. Now it is supposed to be all good?

There is no doubt I regret not buying back in while I watched the price at $455 and then fell asleep that night a couple weeks ago. I missed a major opportunity to take advantage of the morons feeding this bubble, but this is just silly to return back to $1000 only two or three weeks after the market said it was too good to be true.

The market was correcting before China anything. We went from $100 - $1250 in about 3 weeks.

Its coming down, ladies!

Double-Top, Bubble-Pop!

support zone will vanish and become the new resistance zone.

Just wehn you thought it couldn't get any lower....

This pretty-much sucks... I've been waiting to buy in since Dec 17th when it hit $455 on Gox. I think we are still in the hysteria from the last price jump. So long as nothing significant is announced, interest will fade again for a short time. At least, that is what I am hoping.

No. Stop introducing people to Bitcoin. We don't need more people coming in an buying up coins right now. Don't you want to accumulate more coins? If yes, then stop spreading the word about bitcoin.

Whats the deal, are we headed up from here?

I definitely am. I'd like to see $500.

To buy more coins because I barely have any.

Yeah, I do. Who in their right mind wouldn't want at least a temporary decline to get more coins? Its not like Bitcoin is going to die if it drops to below $500 for a couple months.

I would like to see massive declines maybe every month or so while it continues on a net uptrend. Do you just want it to reach a new high and stay there for a couple weeks then jump to a new high and another new high and another new high without ever dropping? That is what most of you sound like on here - you always think the next ATH is just another week away. We don't have to have all or nothing in 1 month's time. If we get to $10,000 or $100,000 within 5 years, I'd be more than happy with that. But I don't want to see it go to that within the next year, I'd rather things go silent for a while.

Why are we talking about Doge on here?

No one cares about Doge. The only time I ever hear about it is when someone on the forums feels compelled to paste it everywhere. Lets keep this thread dedicated to Bitcoin price, please. We are supposed to only post technical charts and discussion.

I don't know where you all are getting this "Elliot Wave confirmation of whatever" but the recent trend looks very similar to the one which brought us down to $455 on gox.

Sub 800 wouldn't even be worth the wait. If that is all you are waiting for might as well just go all in now. You are talking about .15 BTC difference. Most people are waiting for $500 and lower.


And someone really needs to address the idiots who keep claiming "Bitcoin isn't a bubble". No one on here is claiming that Bitcoin is a bubble and will drop to lower prices indefinitely. We are claiming that there are short-term periods of exuberance along the adoption curve which behave like bubbles. Thus, those charts you see are generally correct over the short-term of those bubbles. This is why so many keep pointing to them in regards to a future short-term lower price for Bitcoin. But everyone expects bitcoins to go much higher, say to $10,000 at some point, just not now or in the next couple months. The bulls on here think we should just reach a new high every couple months with no sustained returns to significantly lower values than the ATH, but it just doesn't happen like that in general. Nor has bitcoin price demonstrated such behavior before. This will be a first if that is the case here.

This chart of the early Amazon bubble could be similar to what we are currently experiencing with Bitcoin price:

It happens all the time in these types of moves. I just posted an chart of that very thing occurring. Many who have coins will sell if they think the price is going back down to sub $500 or close to. Same thing happened in the last move to $260. There was a massive sell-off, it rose back again to $160 or more, then came back down to $60, back up to $120, down again briefly, and then on to $1250. That is how it works, the price doesn't just pick a spot after a huge move and stay there levitating. There is still a lot of uncertainty and lack of confidence in the price.

How is low volume bullish? I'll admit ignorance here if someone can explain.

"A terrible store of value" because we have no reliable and ready means to depreciate it.

Got a fortune one time that said: "You will be hungry again in one hour."

This sell-off is bullish.

If it stays there for any period. I might panic sell my only vehicle and bum rides for a few weeks.

I don't see a drop to $500 or below all that extremely bearish. The equivalent to the bulls level of hysteria when the price starts to rise for the "bears" would be: "its going to zero". A call between $300-$500 seems realistic to me as we just went from $100 to $1000 in a couple months. Why should bitcoin even be valued at $1000 or $900? Has that much changed in that time-frame? Not really, just a lot of speculators and some long-term legit buyers entered the market.

Not all of us have been around bitcoin for 5 years. Some of us are less than a year old.


Adafruit has accepted bitcoin for months.

Do we need to get verified on Gox even to withdraw BTC?

Will use it or alternatives from now on. I only recently used GOX, I was elsewhere previously.

I don't know how, in mid-stream, they can just announce: "Oh, and from now on, if you want your bitcoin back you need to verify your account. Sorry, to randomly spring that on you after you brought your coins here."

Good. I want it to take a longer time to reach an ATH. Because I am jobless with almost nothing. So, I can't drop a few thousand and pick up 10 or 100 coins. At these prices I can buy like 2 BTC - at lower prices I can triple that. Its a huge difference for me.

He doesn't want to hear that. He is a greedy bastard who is on the verge of becoming a millionaire and only wants to see the price increase to solidify that.

The goal is the amount of coins, not how much each coin is currently worth. I am not worried about dollar valuation at this point. I would rather have 3 coins that are in one year worth 4x times their buy-in than to have one coin worth 4x its buy-in in a couple months.

Once it starts getting to $5000 the chances of me accumulating another whole bitcoin ever again are basically ZERO. So, its now or never for me. Now or I am totally locked-out of the game when I got in with plenty of time to make the cut. A couple BTC worth $100,000 in 5-10 years won't mean jack - its more or less a consolation prize. To me, its only worth it if my pot is worth millions.

There aren't even enough people involved with bitcoin to even care what happens at this point. 95%+ of the population hasn't even thought about Bitcoin, let alone paying any attention to it. There is plenty of time. If anything, a slower growth is better to keep all the evil eyes off of it for a surprise attack. I know you are probably getting old and shit and are hoping you are worth millions before you have to spend those coins on a Rascal and urine bag, but damn, relax.

What are you talking about.

100 BTC and each BTC is worth $1 million -> 100 x $1 million = $100,000,000.

1 BTC and each BTC is worth $1 million -> 1 x $1 million = $1,000,000.

That is a difference of 100x - that is the difference between being able to start up a multimillion dollar business project and not being able to. That is the difference between being financially free and not. BTC is not going to $1 million in 5 years, it may go there within 10.

The more BTC, the more purchasing power and the sooner you reach that plateau of purchasing power where you no longer have to worry about spending everything you have to get to where you want to be. It is a HUGE difference. Its massive.

That is exactly my point... you want bitcoin to go up as soon as possible so you can buy some stuff (whatever a quincinera is and why you would want to waste BTC on it that you think are going to $1,000,000). I want to accumulate bitcoin so I can be in a position to produce stuff.

^Jesus!!! you think BTC is going to $80,000,000?

It doesn't really go vertical literally. Its just that the rate of increase is not linear, there can still be ups and downs through the "vertical", just not large ones.

What would it take for Bitcoin to go back to $10? I don't forsee that happening.

So, I should get out of Gox any way I can? This is ridiculous.

I think Gox is indirectly keeping the price on the other exchanges up.

All the other exchanges just barely cracked through the downward trend line. Gox went significantly above it. The other exchanges would have continued on the downward trend if not for Gox.

So whatever is happening on Gox is keeping the price up. Whether it is the same manipulator present prior to the crash from $1250 to $450 or it has to do with people trying to get off the exchange.

How do you know that no China crash is coming?

According to what? The Gox move? Are you suggesting the big players in the market have access to Chinese government announcements before release?

Huoboi isn't leading the rally, Gox is - its almost $200 above the others.

The Huobi move came after Gox move.

Did the IRS or whatever return Gox's money yet? Didn't they seize accounts?

Do you all think that prevalent use of a protocol such as colored coins could make each bitcoin even more rare and thus drive up price beyond the theoretical future valuations we have predicted?

What? Colored coins create different assets from bitcoins. Meaning that a bitcoin can be representative of property - thus it won't be used as a currency, but held. Theoretically, this would make the monetary bitcoins more rare. Has nothing to do with eliminating fungibility.

Thinking more on that valuations of $80,000,000 we were tossing around the other day.

How are these guys who are so apt to technology and internet not effectively hiding what they are doing?

Gox price is no way to judge what is happening... it is either being levitated or the result of ongoing withdraw issues.

I'm calling extra low to make sure the price goes below my buy-in range and doesn't stop short....

I am expecting a sell-off to $200.

Please repeat this price over and over.

Of course, Gox barely moves.

Again, these guys were capable of hacking airport surveillance cameras but couldn't hide their communications? 

And Gox doesn't feel the need to budge. Fuck Gox.

Its times like these that Bitpay and Coinbase are involved in a game of hot potato with merchants and buyers.

Not being able to get money off the exchange isn't a reason to not sell. You can sell and leave your money off the exchange to buy back later.

What if I told you that Shrem works for the FBI...

I am also hearing $200.

well we know that institutional investors are now in/getting in, and we are getting serious media attention. the mania stage is yet to come.
[/quote]The mania stage of what? We have already had mania stages... We just had one in Nov/Dec. After each of those mania stages comes return to the mean. You are talking about some lower order mania. The manias we have experienced are higher-order.

Do you know what that means?

Ok... I thought when I read it you were giving me shit. Now it seems you were jokingly approving of my characterization of the bitcoin bubbles.

This hearing is totally lame-o.

Chairman stated that stopping money laundering was more important to society than innovation.

This other dude is advising putting compliance into the code.

Right after that he basically suggested Greenthing identifier written into Bitcoin protocol.

Wilson's response generally leads to approved addresses and unapproved addresses.

Why were the Twinklevoss Tiwins invited?

This hearing means nothing...

I'm not seeing how some of you are saying the Chair is pro-bitcoin... the dude obviously wants to regulate it somehow, he just doesn't know how yet. He claimed that stopping a few money launderers was more important than technological innovation for society. Really? This guy is an idiot.

+1

Highlander was just quoted.

What this panel is not making clear to these people is that it is not possible for government to regulate mining or p2p transfer to begin with. The only possible thing they can regulate are the money transfer businesses.

"Prophylactic regulation"

We have no idea what you are talking about.

I kind of like what Annie Wilkes suggested. She said the government should just have the public sign-off that they are aware of the nature and risks of crypto-currencies and leave it at that.

The problem though with women, is that when you involve them in anything they take that as validation that they know what they are talking about and start spouting-off all sorts of firm but nonsensical positions and ideas.

There are too many people with speetz impedimenths in the bitcoin space.

True.

Its generally true. Its why women flip their moods so often and are never satisfied. Its why they say "you can never win an argument with a women" - because she is never arguing logic and facts.

Hence, the use of the phrase "Its generally true". For most women in most situations this is true, but in professional situations women are generally able to pull it together.

Bitcointalk™ Where nerds believe that upholding politically correct male-female quality jargon and their bitcoin riches will one day get them laid.

15 years later....

Bitcointalk™ Where nerds who lost their bitcoin fortunes to their divorce settlement with their lusting ex-wives hang out and reminisce on the 'good ole days'.

Well.. tell us what it is.

I love how these jerk-offs start randomly pointing and smiling at people in crowds like they have friends... "Hey!! You're here!"

Boner looks darker than Obama.

How is this China thing supposed to work anyway... I am hearing that today all the bitcoin in china get locked and noone can ever get them and all kinds of stories.

Look at this... lol

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinese-new-year-bitcoin-ban-end-days-or-empty-threat-1434495

Sorry guys, I didn't realize that had already been posted. I skipped a couple pages.

Is that pronounced "Choo Choo Mother F*ckering"?

BTCChina has basically flat-lined if you look at the minute by minute price. The exchange has been vacated.

This thing you all are circling doesn't exist on any of my charts.

There is one thing keeping the Bitcoin price up at the moment... Mt Gox. Without it we would be much lower. It provides the psychological ammunition for maintaining above $700 level. All other charts are showing a steady downtrend except Gox.

Doubtful.

Which exchanges besides CampBX allow margin? There was one being mentioned on here during the last run-up and can't remember what it was.

No. Maybe it was something "io".

Has the gov still not released the Gox funds from months ago?

No. Gox has been holding-up what would otherwise have been a slide down.

Holy Shizzle! MtGox is below $900.

Right now we are battling between the dumpers and those who think that $850 is as low as gox goes - think they are getting cheap coins.

Is this the rebound or bull trap?

Round 2

What?

The Gox response is automated... there have probably been many accusations or questions regarding whether their coins were lost/stolen or that Gox does not have all the BTC. Thus, they wrote that reply.

Exactly, just excuses from the mega bulls as to why we aren't going to $10,000 in two weeks.

How much downward pressure can this Russia move have? How low can it take the price? Does only $50-$100 seem legit or are we looking at $200-$300.

This isn't over... maybe for right now. But more to come in the following weeks.

Go easy on him. He's a perma-bull.

I'd say it is around $450.

Maybe not now. It will go that low in the coming days/weeks.

How many of you really think Gox doesn't have the coins/money to cover the transactions? or do you think this is just a technical issue with their wallet?

FIFY

How can they be insolvent? The Bitcoinfoundation needs no funds as the members hold large stashes of bitcoin. No one should be sending them any donations.

There haven't been any cheap coins if you are trying to purchase from Coinbase. They are still at $700 aside from the 5 minutes this early morning (Eastern Time) when they went down.

How were you awake? I was fast asleep at 4:00 AM.

Gox is 502ing