Based off your news alert, I was about to sell a chunk of my bitcoins but then was confronted by THIS:

Sell my BTC for which of these?



What would outperform bitcoin?

Bitcoinnewsmagazine, you are hinting at US dollars outperforming? That's a very impressive ability to predict the bitcoin market, you must be one of the richest people alive. Hats off to you.


Over time, during times of fear and war just compare Bitcoin to other financial assets and compare real data.

Also, if war takes hold the waves of credit start to recede from traditional financial assets, but there is a CROSS-BORDER, UNFREEAZABLE asset of Bitcoin which is experiencing an INCREASING amount of net investment INTO bitcoin EVEN AT recent "HIGH" PRICES.

One of the drivers is that only some private investment funds, hedge funds, private partnerships, endowment funds are BEGINNING to dip tiny allocations into this new uncorrelated financial asset.

This year and next they will play catch up until Bitcoin (in some year long-time from now) normalizes to size of an invested financial asset with a market cap above $300B (current market cap at time of this writing is less than $80B).


If the market were to collapse (modern-day markets pegging S&P 500 US Stocks index as a worldwide primer) - where will the flight to safety be?

Quantfunds (Quantitative investment funds that rely on mathematical models for investments) are infamous at crunching through vast arrays of data across all asset types to use combine investments of less-correlated assets together to acheive great investment returns while still being defensive during down markets. And the outperformance of Bitcoin when other assets are down will not go unnoticed.

Info on The chart above:

The chart above shows since mid-June here were the performance of asset-classes when S&P 500 was down more than -0.2% in a day.

There were only 10 days since mid-June where daily drop of S&P exceeded -0.2%. The above compares how Bitcoin, Gold, Long Term US Treasury Bonds, US Commercial Real Estate (REIT), and Bullish US Dollar Index did on those same days.

The assets are represented by most established, regulated, liquid ETFs:
Gold  ticker: IAU - iShares Gold Trust
Long Term US Treasury Bonds ticker - TLH - iShares 10-20 Year Treasury Bond
US Commercial Real Estate ticker - VNQ - Vanguard Real-Estate-Investment-Trusts ETF
Bullish USD index ticker - UUP - PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish

Where will the flight to safety be in terms of assets/investments?



There are already 3 large institutional investment vehicles for private investments, hedge funds, and quant-funds to get bitcoin exposure:
-XBT provider's bitcoin swedish nasdaq etf (priced in SEK currency) : bitcoinxb / bloomberg ticker: coinxbt [not real btc]
-Grayscale's bitcoin Over-the-counter markets fund : GBTC  [not real btc]
-Gemini's exchange's daily auctions of bitcoin buyers and sellers [real btc?]

This is outside of the many popular exchanges that exist for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies including p2p exchange localbitcoins. [real BTC]

I'm applying lots of caution, with that said I estimate 18 to 48 months to hit $300B mkt cap for bitcoin. I anticipate that there will be no major wars.

Did you say FUD? Only because sharing is caring.

S2xcoin: Why Mommy Garzik want see my peepee? Skry to Bloq to Segwit2x
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2157586.0

Hacks & puppets & forks - how to destroy bitcoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1834310.0

Which one to buy? Stocks Houses Gold or Bitcoin or Bonds?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1851644.0

Which country are you from? Here list THIRTY popular bitcoin countries for trade
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1853019.0

Just have to say, I really enjoy seeing posts from JayJuanGee and also Torque - thank you both for continuing to post. Now, with that out of the way:

What say any of you to the following?

Efforts by any country's central bank or government to regulate bitcoin (ie make illegal or legalizing) will accelerate that country's demise of fiat value. These costs of such attempts and many other costs are absorbed by monetary inflation - making fiat even more worthless over time. Fiat system has been broken for decades. Bitcoin however had reached escape velocity globally 4-years ago in 2013 thus will continue to rise & be adopted as it is the only escape from financial slavery and an opt-out of war-making, slave-labor producing central bank regimes.

Fiat around the world is heavily infested and broken from the burdens of:
-regulatory burden on fiat banks & system (incredibly costly)
-insurance fraud
-unemployment & other welfare costs
-inflating fiat to keep stock market rising and to keep house-prices from collapsing
-frivolous legal costs (lawsuits bogging the system down)
-financing conflicts, bombs, and "aid"
-keeping monopolies with internet access centralized and search engine crawlers centralized
-money laundering
-false claims (outside of insurance)
-chargebacks
-state-sponsored corruption and unofficial corruption (governments and gangs, banks and conartists)
-retirement obligations (debasement in value to keep up with payments from government or other retirement-obligations)
-fake credit (goods being transacted with credit-loss, replaced by inflation of monetary base rather than bringing perpetrators & source to justice)

Bitcoin, systemically, is free from these burdens.

If I wanted a one-sided slant of the world, I can just turn on the TV or look at Apple News or Google News.


Yah just pointing out the immense inflationary pressures still existing that will propel Bitcoin higher until  Bitcoin gets mainstream to incorporate such things.

Such a delightful future for all of us?

Barry Silbert's DCG consortium of companies with his minion Jeff Garzik will need alot of luck to even launch and maintain their scam Segwit2x BTC1 altcoin effort. LOL

Anyone else here have InteractiveBrokers?

Can confirm no longer can buy bitcoinxb??

Selling pressure this week now from the USA?

Just posted this.

BCH always will be and always has been a weak altcoin compared to Bitcoin - it didnt decentralize miners nor did it alleviate any bloat but contrarily added it with fat big blocks, exists in a world where original bitcoin still exists which is better in everyway, and BCH also stuck in the world of ASIC miners....and worst of all got to where it is without traditional consensus.

While you are correct in that you'd just have to wait another 4 years to get a new all-time high, the answer to your question of what the problem is that it will burn a lot of innocent faithful crucial new adopters distributed across nearly every country in the world. This could be bad for adoption trajectory.

The release of bitcoin futures that will be settled with no actual delivery of actual bitcoins may be the tool the central banks needed to subvert bitcoin into submission.  It may take a couple of years where things are fine and dandy for them to establish dominant volume at first, but once the dominance is established, manipulate and subvert.

If either or both of above are true, there could be scenario where a new ATH may become....much tougher...

(im talking about getting past somewhere much higher than today....like 20k or 50k...passing any new ATH past here with high volume on bitcoin futures....not good)

No, I'd say we are closer to 1% of global population use. But that number in itself is huge. We hit 1% in 10 years, and I think within 3 years we will be almost 3%! That's alot more people pouring in soon. As the max global population I'd foresee actively using Bitcoin in our lifetimes may be about 6% to 7%.

Once Bitcoin hits 5%, it is effectively mainstream and at that point already taken over traditional financial structures. This will happen within 5, maybe 6 years maximum.

Direxion 3x BTC bullish and inverse funds would be fun. LOL.

For those keeping track, this is how long it has taken the cryptocurrency to cross the key psychological levels:

    $0000 - $1000: 1789 days
    $1000- $2000: 1271 days
    $2000- $3000: 23 days
    $3000- $4000: 62 days
    $4000- $5000: 61 days
    $5000- $6000: 8 days
    $6000- $7000: 13 days
    $7000- $8000: 14 days
    $8000- $9000: 9 days
    $9000-$10000: 2 days
    $10000-$11000: 1 day
    $11000-$12000: 6 days
    $12000-$13000: 17 hours
    $13000-$14000: 4 hours
    $14000-$15000: 10 hours
    $15000-$16000: 5 hours
    $16000-$17000: 2 hours
    $17000-$18000: 10 minutes
    $18000-$19000: 3 minutes


source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-07/bitcoin-blasts-through-15000?page=18

Is basically every "Equihash" altcoin reliant on the trusted setup (destruction of master key ceremony)? Not just Zcash, zclassic, but Bitcoin Gold as well?

Can anyone comment? All equihash coins = trust in trusted setup. (if so, what a crappy "gpu"-mineable algo that bitcoin-gold team chose - dubious)

Ah okay, thanks!

I'd feel guilty if I didn't share with you guys - join me and eat up...

Lightning network and Bitcoin's superiority will be the story of the year. Altcoins have experienced and may likely continue to experience a relative death.

Will reiterate - great entry point to buy Bitcoin at these levels.

Hahahhaha - LOL

Fear? Are you kidding me?

when will central banks stop inflating house prices and stocks prices? why do they need to? will all confidence collapse if they stop?
If fiat/credit supply stopped growing, then house prices, stock prices, financial assets would crash significantly in value.

Governments and laws are controlled by the central banks. Bitcoin is an anti-establishment revolution that has already solidified itself worldwide.

Bitcoin cannot be controlled. It cannot be banned. It cannot be made illegal. And conversely it cannot be legalized. It just simply is. And people can always use it.

Bitcoin has all the characteristics needed combined to hold the most value and increasing more than any other financial-asset option coming from the manipulated fiat central-banking debt-system. (more than stocks, more than houses, more than gold).

Those trying to undermine and manipulate bitcoin stem from the central bank system around the world;
-the central banks dictate policy to all the operating big banks around the world and have essentially tried their best to ban bitcoin related transactions for more than four years straight, ever since 2013, and have failed at stopping bitcoin's growth, adoption, and popularity
-the central banks fund efforts to undermine bitcoin, providing plenty of capital and liquidity to private companies and venture backed groups such as Digital Currency Group (they own Coinbase, GDAX, Kraken, Bitpay, and media outlet Coindesk) and also Roger Ver/Bitmain to undermine and break the bitcoin protocol and/or manipulate trade

Above are just small examples.

First, educate yourself and then others. Please checkout the link to the bitcointalk post in my signature titled: How to teach Bitcoin to a 7 year old.

Bitcoin is a secure, decentralized, trustless and open system which cannot be banned nor controlled.
 Too bad all altcoins are relatively worthless!

Bitcoin's blockchain is the only unique one to provide the most security in a decentralized, global, incentivized fashion.

Popularity of Bitcoin will begin to explode with lightning in the next year.
Bitcoin's lightning network is emerging where fees will be tiny and cross-chain atomic swaps for decentralized exchange.

All other "blockchains" are more private worthless databases, my old nokia phone can do worthless databases. Other blockchains are simply scams.

Bitcoin's price will be at the very least more than 4 times (400%) of todays price in 5 years.

Bitcoin is ultimate store of value and its popularity has strengthened over time and maximizes value compared to any other altcoin...
Why are altcoins relatively worthless compared to bitcoin?:
If it can be shutdown, and have assets frozen by a bank or government, there would be no value
If it wasn't secure, there would be no value.
If it wasn't immutable, there would be no value.
If it wasn't globally distributed, there would be no value.
If it wasn't so strong, open-source decentralized and unstoppable, there would be no value.
If it wasn't so scarce, there would be no value.
If it was easy to spam transactions, there would be no value
If it required a central 3rd party to function, there would be no value
If it was stopped after all major banks on Earth banned in 2013 to today, there would be no value. (say "bitcoin" when transacting and watch the block of the transaction. simple fix=never mention "bitcoin").
If it didn't have the history of 8+ years (and still no hacker can exploit bitcoin blockchain), there would be no value
Bitcoin is on the verge of lightning network release rendering altcoins as only backup plan options if not dead.
If it was exactly like fiat and only did transactions, there would be no value.

Bitcoin's value is worth hundreds of billions USD today. Altcoins however are scams, weak, pyramid schemes not offering these values.


For global fiat (US Dollars, Indian Rupees, Chinese Yuan, etc), the fiat bubble system broke a couple of decades ago.

Fiat around the world is forced to inflate issuance as its heavily infested, burdened and broken with (the following whether good or bad):
-inflating fiat to keep house-prices from collapsing
-inflating fiat to keep stock market rising
-financing conflicts, bombs, missiles/aircraft/embassies, and "aid"
-frivolous legal costs (systemic resources wasted on legal threats, settlements, lawsuits bogging down system)
-regulatory burden on fiat banks & system (incredibly costly, lots of labor for each $1 in circulation)
-backstopping insurance frauds
-costs of auditors and budgetors and accountants checking the same thing over in governments and businesses (& still suspect)
-big insurance loss-events
-unemployment & other welfare costs
-stabilize regions after natural disasters
-keeping monopolies with internet access and information centralized and search engine crawlers centralized
-officially sponsored "money laundering"
-backstopping credit chargebacks
-state-sponsored corruption and unofficial corruption (governments and gangs, banks and conartists)
-retirement obligations (debasement in value to keep up with payments from government or other retirement-obligations)
-fake credit (goods being transacted with credit-loss, replaced by inflation of monetary base rather than bringing perpetrators & source to justice)
-using enforcement labor to freeze accounts and assets and take away your money


Bitcoin, systemically, is free from these limitations and burdens.

Great idea - thank you Theymos;

A couple of suggested criterion for anyone working on this:
1) biggest issue here is if someone games the code to manipulate results - thus OPEN SOURCE
2) price prediction must be matched with a time frame - once price hit, +1 score? or would those game this by playing volatility and pick a price close to current price? (must be atleast a # % away from current price?)
3) negative scores for incorrect predictions

On the topic of predictions, lightning network for Bitcoin will fan more fire for the blazing Bitcoin revolution....I predict Bitcoin at 14k within 18months, 20k within 26months, 35k within 48months, 50k within 60months

Onto scamcoins update TODAY:

The biggest catalyst that'd make BTC price skyrocket higher is simply move all your BTC to your PERSONAL bitcoin wallet (move off of Coinbase, Binance, Bitfinex, Square, Robinhood, CBOE/CME futures).

Fractional reserve, BTC lending, rehypothication is a bitch and can perpetually create no floor for prices by establishment market manipulators.

Plus if history is any indication, one these avenues will blow up and wreck the "holders" of bitcoin that really wasn't there because they failed to take such advice.

Take it off the exchanges and see what happens.

Thank you both.

LOL

Woah!

So atleast it sounds like QA change his tune? I'm guessing?

This market is so painful btw.

You may have a point - he didn't even give me smerit for the post which he 'agreed' being underrated

Can someone point me to historical drawdowns table for BTC (ie 2013, 2015, including updates with Nov '18 action)??

Really? Very simple 4 question litmus test:

1) Expain to me, what makes bitcoin decentralized?

2) Why did Segwit 2.0 attack fail on bitcoin?

3) Lightning network, convince me how it is contrary to what you earlier said, free from government interference - explanation? Take a stab, play devils advocate. (tip: talk routing)

4) Why is it, even since 2013, the hundreds of most 'established' altcoins after years, are not nearly as secure nor decentralized as bitcoin?

Simple four questions.

Hey JJG, I just realized, you've engaged with a poster here earlier in the week, whom after looking at their other posts on their profile, smells and leans heavily to high-shill factor side. Funny how that poster doesnt bring all that to the WO thread.

You have quite the tolerance level.