+1

Small dips followed by quick recovery = healthy growth. Don't sell your coins cheaply (because they are still dirt cheap). HoDL them and let the roller coaster roll.

Good things come to those who wait HoDL!

Just to let everyone know that using TREZOR to claim your BCH is a piece of cake. Excellent interface from SatoshiLabs, kudos to them! I claimed them all from both my wallets and transfered directly to Kraken.

I'm a HoDLer, can't do trading, not good at it. But the "free" cash I got from BCH was too tempting for me to not give it a try. I sold all of them when they were slightly past their peak. Now they're dropping nicely, so I can buy them back and be left with free BTC! But I'll wait for a bit to see how it all plays out. Trading is an addictive thing. I may do it with my free BCH, but there's no way I'm touching my original BTC. They're safely stored in my TREZOR and will not be touched unless absolutely necessary.

Have fun guys 'n' gals, and remember --> HoDL!

Just install a Bitcoin widget on you phone, and point it to your favourite exchange. That's what I've done.

But I know what you mean...

@{Meuh6879, ghandi, Elwar}:

Wow, you guys are pros!

I like Elwar's big font ticker, I could watch it at night with one eye, while sleeping next to the PC... 

Same here. Litecoin is the second coin in my vault. I love Litecoin. I believe that it has its place in the crypto space, and a good future. I particularly like its speed (4 times more "beats" than Bitcoin), its very low fees (still), and the willingness of the development team and the community to adopt new technologies, such as SegWit and the Lightning Network.

Speaking of fees, I did a few BCH transactions recently, and noticed the extremely low fees that Bitcoin Cash has. My last one was for 15 BCH and the fee was 0.000001 BCH (approx. $0.0006). As much as I love the original (Core) Bitcoin, I do greatly appreciate the low fees of Bitcoin Cash. The same amount in BTC on the same day cost me $11 in fees (nearly 20000 times higher than BCH).

We humans, are equipped with our senses and our logic, none of which can prove with certainty that god (any god) exists. It is only by faith, that concepts such as the existence of (a) god, as described in the "holy books", can be dogmatically accepted as true. There is no way it can be proven using observation (senses) and/or logic.

Hi Jimbo,

I don't know why, but your posts cheer me up. Like some positive energy being sent through the forum... 

Here in Euro-land the ATH (3850 EUR) hasn't been broken yet -- but it's close. Should happen later on today.

Good times...

I hope this is not John McAfee... 

Just woke up to see that the Euro-land ATH was broken last night, and has now become 3870 €/BTC. And it looks like it's going to be broken again very soon!

I'm reading all the posts about how BCH is dead, etc. Well, it may be so, but I've decided to hold it for a while longer and see how things play out. My way of thinking is this:

If I sell my BCH for BTC:

- My BTC holdings increase by around 12% (with current prices) = Insignificant gain.
- If BTC plummets and BCH gets a major boost = Significant loss.

If I keep my BCH:

- My BTC holdings stay the same = No gain.
- If BTC plummets and BCH gets a major boost = Significant gain and insurance against the unexpected.

So, HoDLing my BCH allows me to sleep peacefully at night, knowing I'm safe whatever happens. As much as I dislike Jihan Wu, Roger Ver, and all the rest of them, I don't want to underestimate their power. Better safe than sorry.

A very good morning to all,

Bitcoin Euro-ATH was broken several times since y'day... Now at 3898 €/BTC (Kraken).  

Bitcoin Cash is also gaining slightly, now at 491 €/BCH (Kraken).

So, it seems the current poll will be (pleasantly) proven wrong... Let's hope there won't be any major dump coming. I know 10k € (a 2.5x increase) seems too optimistic for the end of the year, but you never know, it happened last year, why not this year too?

Euro-ATH @ 3999.53 €/BTC (Kraken).

Damn, so close!  

At the risk of sounding stupid, this graph doesn't look right to me... How is it possible for EUR and GBP to be above USD? 

Wow! That looks like almost 20% premium (rough calculation for EUR). Never expected that!

Most likely it's what [Last of the V8s] said.

hi micgoossens, please include me for the date of...

29/01/2018

Many thanks, good luck (to me, of course)! 

I thought the same thing. But I chose to HoDL (and keep HoDLing for several more years). My thinking is that if it goes to zero, that's OK, my investment was not big (a few thousand EUR). I won't miss it. I can afford to lose it. My life won't change. On the other hand, what'll happen if I convert it to fiat and then it goes to the moon? I'm sure I'll feel really bad about it, much worse that if I lose my investment. And going to the moon will certainly change my life for the better. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

My suggestion to all BTC owners: HoDL! And if you have the skills & guts, trade a little (not too much). As for me, I don't want to trade because I know I'm not good at it.

@{JayJuanGee, khufuking, Searing}:

I agree with your thinking, I understand that simply HoDLing will not take any advantage of the volatility, and I know I should try trading, even on a very small percentage of my stash (or some freshly-bought coins, as suggested). I could have increased my holdings by several BTC if I had sold at 4100 EUR/coin and bought back at 2500 EUR/coin. Well, it's easy to think about this after the fact, but not so easy to predict it.

Having said that, and as per your suggestion, I do intend to buy some more BTC, for the sole purpose of trading. Not much, perhaps 1 or 2 BTC. The rest is already in cold storage and I don't intend to touch them unless absolutely necessary. It's nice (very nice) when you earn from trading, but it can bite you hard if you are not careful.

BTW, just for the record, and contrary to one of my earlier posts in this thread, I've decided to sell my entire BCH holdings, and convert them to BTC (mostly) and LTC (as a hedge). Took advantage of the recent big dip, so one could say that I "traded" them, which turned out quite good I must say. Not sure if that was a good or a bad move in the long term though... Only time will tell...

WTF? Don't they proof-read their presentations? I'm very picky when it comes to correct spelling, syntax and grammar. I refuse to continue looking at this garbage. If they don't know how to use the English language, they should have it corrected by someone who does, before presenting it...

Just imagine the quality and robustness of a piece of code (or anything) coming from such a person...  

I have a white one too, and it has made my crypto storage so much easier and safer... You'll love it!

I must confess something...

When I discovered Bitcoin about 2 years ago it blew my mind. I'm a scientist/engineer and my job is to design things, so I immediately understood the idea and its implications. Much like Andreas Antonopoulos's experience, I found myself skipping meals and forgetting to sleep while reading all a could find about it. I thought that this invention had the power and potential to change the world for the better. To help people. And I still believe that.

But something spoiled the dream for me. Greed. I was lucky enough to buy a good amount of BTC when they were worth 200 € each. I didn't plan it, it was pure luck. And then I found myself thinking about how much money I could earn, when I should sell my BTC and become rich (in a fiat setting), etc. I didn't care about Bitcoin "the world-changing invention" anymore, all I ended up caring was how much money I could make out of it.

Things are looking up, and my goal may be realised sooner that I thought, but is this a healthy goal? Are we all supporting or destroying Bitcoin by thinking like this? I see this greed in many people's posts here in the forum. It saddens me. Many here talk pompously and boasting how they're going to sell their stash when its fiat-based value reaches a set target. Is this all you see in Bitcoin? A money-making machine? Are we all failing to see the bigger picture?

Sorry for using WO to post this... I just wanted to get it off my chest.

Saw the recent drop, locked, cocked, and was ready to shoot at the dip, but before I could hit the Buy button it stated rising again...

Oh well, if it's good for Bitcoin, it's good for me! Will keep the gun loaded for a future dip. We still have the darn SegWit2x to deal with...

I Googled CCMF and came up with Carolina Country Music Fest! Is that what it means? LOL! 

What worries me is that our wallets may need to be modified to safely claim the new forked coins, just like BCH... New private keys, transfers from old to new keys, etc. We must be extra careful we don't send our BTC to outer space in the process...

Larger blocks are a step in the wrong direction. The reasons are many, and some are so blatantly obvious that it is pointless to waste time and energy explaining them in a forum post.

Instead, I will simply quote a paragraph from the Lightning Network paper [1]:

"The payment network Visa achieved 47,000 peak transactions per second (tps) on its network during the 2013 holidays, and currently averages hundreds of millions per day. Currently, Bitcoin supports less than 7 transactions per second with a 1 megabyte block limit.  If we use an average of 300 bytes per bitcoin transaction and assumed unlimited block sizes, an equivalent capacity to peak Visa transaction volume of 47,000/tps would be nearly 8 gigabytes per Bitcoin block, every ten minutes on average.  Continuously, that would be over 400 terabytes of data per year."

That's gigabytes, not megabytes... That should put things in perspective.

[1] Joseph Poon and Thaddeus Dryja, "The Bitcoin Lightning Network: Scalable Off-Chain Instant Payments", January 14, 2016.

What I'm trying to say is that we can't solve the throughput problem in the long term by simply increasing block size. It will let us breathe for a while and then choke us again. Other, smarter methods should be employed for solving this problem. One proposal is the Lightning Network. There will be better ones to come, and we should embrace them.

Regarding your 30-year calculation, it is indeed correct, and is an interesting result. SegWit gets this reduced to 15 years. This duration will be decreased further by increasing the block size. But it still won't solve the throughput problem. Perhaps a combination of gradual block size increases, as permitted by h/w capabilities, and good off-chain solutions are actually needed.

Well, for the calculation I assumed the goal was for everyone to simply own Bitcoin (hence one transaction per person)...

Perhaps this reveals the limits of the design as it currently stands. Technological advances may not always follow a predictable and foreseeable path. Technology may take a long time to be able to accommodate the technical requirements for a truly global Bitcoin network (in the sense that everyone on Earth actively transacts in it). Another coin may be able to achieve it, but maybe not Bitcoin as it is currently designed. It may take a long time for us to get there...

I also trust the developers. Especially Core. I trust their cautionary/conservative approach. The "bigger is better" approach that many are eager to take may have unforeseeable side-effects on the Bitcoin system. Sure, technology will provide new capabilities and we should use them. But we should do so extremely carefully.

Monday may be gentlemen!

Get ready....

Congrats to harrymmmm, what a nice present for you... 0.5 BTC sounds sooo fat these days...

And many thx to micgoossens, really enjoyed the game, and don't worry about being hated, this often means you're doing something right...

Kraken ATH: 4315 EUR <-- Already broken! LOL!

THIS IS GENTLEMEN!

Same here, I haven't lost a single cent in more than 2 years I'm in the game. As for gains...

It's (always been) a wonderful day/week/month/year...

Those memes and the excitement are all nice and good, but the big question is this:

-- When do we sell?
-- Do we sell?

Well, that's two questions. I've always been a HoDLer and I suck at trading, but I recently bought 1.4 BTC at under $5000 per coin, for the sole purpose of trading it. I've already made about $1.5k which feels really good. What now?

My plan is to keep the coins until 25 October, then sell it soon after, and wait for the supposedly massive pre-SegWit2x drop to buy again. But will it happen?

Damn, trading's a tough business...

This!

Many of us may think we know what's best for Bitcoin, but that doesn't mean we're right... Bitcoin has proved itself over the years, its heart beating steadily every 10 minutes since it was born. That's not an easy thing to achieve when you are being attacked constantly 24/7. We must put our trust on experienced coders that have a history of successes in this field, and not some guys like Jihan Wu, Roger Ver, and the likes of them. Any change in code, even a single line or a character, can cause a collapse if the coders don't deeply understand what they're doing.

About the block size, yes, it will increase. Yes, as technology improves, and network speed and storage space increase, it may eventually become much larger than 1 MB. But it should happen in a well planned, carefully controlled and surgically precise manner. Bitcoin has given us so much over the years, and it appears the train is advancing at full speed. Let's keep it that way...

Kraken has been good to me since 2015. No problems, apart from the slow servers on peak days. Makes fast trading difficult, if not impossible sometimes. Well, I'm not a trader but a HoDLer, so that doesn't bother me much. Other than that, they are OK, they promptly answer questions and support tickets. I had an issue with a fiat deposit once and they sorted it out immediately.

Both of them are excellent choices. Both have comparable (and excellent) security. They are also compatible with each other, in the sense that a recovery seed of a Ledger can be used on a TREZOR and vice versa.

TREZOR is the first and most mature product of the two. I have one and I'm extremely satisfied with it. I highly recommend a TREZOR.

Thanks for the warning. I've just sold everything.

I'm now searching for Jamie Dimon's daughter -- I heard she's super hot!

Absolutely. Do it. You won't ever go back to anything else.

I believe that the latest TREZOR devices are shipped empty (without f/w). You then go to SatoshiLabs's site and download it yourself. When you install it, a special "fingerprint" (a long alphanumeric string) appears on the computer's screen, which you must compare with the one that appears on TREZOR's screen. If they match, the f/w is not tampered with.

Kraken has gone haywire...

All this fork-mania does, is strengthen the one and only true Bitcoin. Just HoDL. Good things come to those who wait.

I first talked to my colleagues about Bitcoin back in 2015. I was laughed at, ridiculed, called a fool, and even accused of supporting drug dealers and pedophiles... I stopped talking about it until early 2017, when our team leader at work asked about it. This time my colleagues were not so eager to joke and laugh about it, but still didn't accept it. After explaining to him about how it works and how to get it, he thought about it, told me something about Ethereum and whether he should get that instead, and eventually chickened out and didn't buy anything. He considered 1 BTC to be too expensive for him at that time (it was around 800 €/coin then). I explained that he could buy a fraction of it, but he never did. He was then transferred to another department and I never saw him again.

At that time, early 2017, when Bitcoin was mentioned again, I had an idea, which I heard in one of Andreas Antonopoulos's talks. I decided to offer the equivalent of 1 € worth of BTC to each person I discuss Bitcoin with. I remember installing wallets on their smartphones and doing the transfers. They all gathered around me screaming "I want it too!" like crazy. I remember the amount I gave them was something like 0.0012 BTC each (which was 1 € at the time).

Guess what? Now, after 10 months, that amount of 0.0012 BTC has a value of 6 €, and I'm sure they've been watching it rise to that value and realizing what they've missed! Many of them have already asked me how to get more and even apologized for being so harsh and dismissive. Well, now I just say "just Google it, mate." Can't be bothered. I do help in many cases when I see genuine interest, but to those that joked and laughed, I let them learn their lesson.

Exactly this!

Just spend as much as you need for your living expenses. I do not have a desire for super-expensive purchases. I already have a decent house and car. I was never interested in luxurious stuff. Not my style. I just want financial freedom and the ability to do what I want, not what others want me to do (day job). Once this is achieved, I'm happy.

Yep. I prefer a slow and steady rise than a rapid, massive rise followed by a huge drop afterwards. In any case, the trend is expected to be positive, given sufficient time.

About 2020, we should not forget the halving that occurs then... There will be good times to come to this space, and the winners (as always) will be the HoDLers.

Conclusion: HoDL, sit back and enjoy!

Well, based on what I've read so far, I don't even care about BTG's value. I don't think it's worth messing with my private keys and moving coins around, just to get this crapcoin. I never liked BCH, but at least that coin was better designed than this BTG crap. Hell, they couldn't even get their website done right in the early stages. It looked like the output of an alpha version of Google Translate... Just imagine the quality of the actual coding!

Well, this is nerve-racking... Up and down and up and down again...

Without the stupid BCH/BTG/S2X forkathon, we could have already achieved 5-digit values. OTOH, maybe all this is a good thing. Let them come. The harder they hit, the stronger BTC becomes.

You could try Wikipedia, which defines the terms in pretty much the same way...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory

There we go again... [5-minute candles, values are in EUR]

This is gentlemen indeed!



Go BTC go!

I wouldn't buy a Lambo even if I had $1 billion. I never liked these types of cars, or their drivers (usually)...

I would REALLY like to have this though:

ATH @ Kraken!

5311 €

Diz iz gentlemen!

Already broken! 5335 € now... I can't explain it, I just enjoy it...

Edit: Huge Buy wall forming...

I believe it's going to take longer than a day or two to reach this value. People will sell. But as long as we get there, even if it takes a week, I'm happy.

WOW indeed!

Good that the guy persisted and didn't give up. Lesson learned: always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS take Bitcoin security extremely seriously. Reading about how the guy handled this matter made me feel he almost deserved to lose access to his coins. The part about the orange paper and the pillow almost infuriated me. Bloody hell...

They fixed that hole in f/w ver. 1.5.2. As for the potential for future holes, it's always going to be there. It's still far better than a paper wallet though. With a paper wallet everything is out in the open, just a photo of your private key QR code and your coins are lost. With a TREZOR a thief needs to jump through many hoops to have some hope of getting to your keys. It took that guy 1.5 years to get access to his coins.

The Ledger Nano S is a good choice. But this thing you mentioned about the device wiping itself after the 3rd failed PIN attempt would have me worried... What if you temporarily can't recall the PIN and you've lost the seed? You'll then lose access to your coins forever, even if you later remember the PIN. If that guy in the Wired story had a Ledger Nano S he would have lost access to his coins forever. I think the way TREZOR deals with the PIN is smarter and gives the owner the chance to try several times, with a geometrically increasing delay between retries, to the point where at some point it essentially locks him out.

Well, the part about backing up the seed I fully agree with, but temporarily forgetting the PIN can happen, even to the smartest people.

Well, this is an advantage of the Ledger (stricter security), so long as one makes absolutely sure he can have access to the seed (which he/she should). TREZOR gives you a few more chances (for a while), then shuts you out.

I want to post a CCMF meme, but can't (because of the slight drop).

Come on BTC...

It will be similar (in terms of security) as if you had your laptop connected to your home's Wi-Fi. I don't think you need to worry about accessing Kraken by using your phone as a hotspot. I've done the same thing in various countries using various mobile operators (while roaming).

If you trust your laptop, all is good.

Looks like I may be posting that CCMF meme soon...

Go BTC go!

Thanks for letting us know about Poloniex. I read your earlier message too, with the gory details... I opened an account with them a few weeks ago, but haven't completed the KYC procedure yet. Now I'm not sure I want to...

ATH @ Kraken!

5400 €

Da time haz come... CCMF!
Be on it, or under it. Your choice!

Meanwhile, AltCash (a.k.a. WuVerCoin) is...

https://youtu.be/3fdZWbIsrFk

Wow, what's happening guys?

Is there any explanation? [seriously now...]

I hope not. I hope Bitcoin doesn't have the same ending...

I just like the video & music, feels good while in a pump.

Is it coming or going?

Anyway, that's no CCMF!

The train has now stopped to refuel and take some more passengers, before going CCMF again...

Will you be on that train? No? Think again!

via Imgflip Meme Generator

5500 € conquered. Where next today?

https://youtu.be/Cugj6EBvkiA

Green everywhere...

Music recommendation: Pet Shop Boys - Discography

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb8TuELvLVc&list=PL2kk-KAFn5FJf0kgOD7mt48RBNG-V55MI

Cheesy?

What's important is to not be too greedy and identify the things that really matter in life. You will then realise that having even just a few BTC will soon be enough to live a happy life.

It's coming...
And it cannot be stopped...

I've just wiped my TREZOR and recovered it using my seed backup, just to make sure everything's in order (which it is!).

Double-check you have your recovery seed backed up and safely stored in multiple places (not all in the same physical location). I can't imaging how I would feel if I discovered that I didn't have access to my coins...

Got to get to 5 digits soon, otherwise we'll die of boredom...

Damn!

Watching it now, slowly getting demolished...

Amazing, isn't it? It kept dropping and then vanished completely.

Feeling happy, but also worried it will correct. Will see what happens...

Yeah, Kraken is Choo-Choo'ing nicely too. 6070 € now.

How deep will it correct?

LOL, that's so funny...
And so true...

Tell me now, isn't this beautiful?
That's a 5-minute chart we're seeing...

All is good. Correction was expected, and is healthy.

It appears that 6000 € is more or less locked in (Kraken). Price comes back to that level despite small dips under it.

Will it spike up again? Of course it will. But when?

Where's kwukduck?

Baaah! 6xxx € is too boring now. I need at least a 7 in front. I'm off to watch a movie.

Price appears to be heading nicely and slowly, to a new ATH...
Friday may be kind to us.

That's what I want:

https://youtu.be/DmeUuoxyt_E

Well, not that much, but hey, one can dream...

Oh shoot, I posted the wrong video...!

Now my secret fetish has come out in the open. Fcuk!

Looks like we may have a Choo-Choo again soon...

Brace yerselves...!

via Imgflip Meme Generator

I just finished reading the open letter, and, I must admit, it scared the hell out of me. I have already sold all my Bitcoin Cash. I really wish things will not turn out the way the letter describes!

Wondering if we all should have kept our BCH...

Jimbo and jbreher may well turn out to be the smartest guys among us.

I know it's just a well-written piece of FUD, but if such FUD manages to mess things up for us, it would be good to have a "hedge" (a.k.a. BCH, especially since that "hedge" was given to us for free).

I don't agree with the letter, not at all. I just feel worried about the whole situation we're going through.

I really hope that's what happens in the end.

I like your VHS vs. Betamax example, but in our case I believe BTC (the original coin) is better than BCH for many reasons, so the analogy would be that Betamax had ended up being the dominant one, due to its quality as well as its widespread usage.

You're right, of course, I just wanted to point out the difference. In fact, being the better coin, there's even more incentive for BTC to win over BCH.

Here's a better version of the "Occupy the Moon" image, where the (BTC) logo is spherically distorted, to match the surface of the Moon.

That's 52.56 TB, not PB, and it's not that large, considering the advances in technology. Currently it's only six 10 TB HDDs. Soon it will be just a single (and relatively cheap) HDD.

Oh yeah, I just noticed it! GOOD!

I absolutely hate ads (and signature campaigns)!

Very well said!

I see your points. And we should say to them, "Bring it on. Come and get it." And they will fail. And this will be good for Bitcoin (the original and only one), for the reasons AlexGR outlined in his post. Bitcoin will come out stronger, having proven that it can resist re-definition. Actually, this whole BCH/BTG/SegWit2x mess may turn out to be a blessing for Bitcoin. A test if you will. And it shall pass it with flying colours.

I sold them all (at a good price, got myself some more BTC out of them). Now everything's in cold storage, I can't be bothered to buy or sell. Will just HoDL it out.

BTW, looks like there's a mid-weekend Choo-Choo forming slowly...

Today I strolled around the city centre, just for fun, for no specific reason. I really felt free. I realised that the most important thing in my life is not an expensive car, a big house, or an exotic vacation. It's freedom. Freedom from financial slavery. Freedom from the slavery I see everywhere around me. It's just amazing how a set of numbers inside a chip can completely change one's life for the better.

Thanks, Mr. Nakamoto.

PS: Yes! Another nice and round ATH @ Kraken!

6500 €

How is that helpful? There are numerous such posts dating back to 2015, none of which came true. Not to mention various ducks and cockroaches preaching about the imminent Armageddon...

Personally, the money I've invested in Bitcoin is money I can afford to lose (in fact, I consider them already lost), so whatever happens, let it come.

For the time being I'm HoDLing. Trading is not for me. Too much stomach-ache...

Too many ATHs indeed... Actually there's an ATH every few seconds. Not worth reporting -- too frequent! Will only report the nice & round numbers.

ATHs ain't easy. There are some important, difficult issues to address, such as finding suitable memes for each ATH report...

Next stop: 6600 €.

That's excellent! Should cover about a day's worth of ATHs...

From 2015 onwards we never had a big dip. But anyways... Earlier than that there was the MtGox fiasco.

About "for every rise there is a fall", well, that was Newton. With Bitcoin we are now past Einstein and there are new laws at play. In Bitcoin mathematics, there are only the (+) and (*) operators and no negative numbers. LOL!

Only kidding, of course, I know there may be a dip coming, but I'd like to hope it won't be so massive as sub-$1000.

That's nice to hear, although you won't feel so good when you calculate how much the BTC you've spent buying Amazon stuff are now worth...

As an example, I bought my TREZOR at the end of 2016, at a price of 0.1361 BTC, which is now a whopping $1000. This has got to be one of the most expensive TREZORs ever owned.

In a way, this is Laszlo's pizza story, in a much, much smaller scale.

Moral of the story: HoDL!

Of course that's true, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. After all, it's good to use BTC in everyday life. All I'm saying is that calculating the current value of the BTC we've spent on things may leave a bittersweet taste in our mouths...

I did a quick calculation, using current prices, about how many BTC you have, and came up with a whopping 889 BTC!

Really good for you, I'm jealous, as I'm nowhere near that amount. If I had that much I'd definitely do the same. As mentioned, we only live once, so we'd better make the most of it.

What if Bitcoin implodes and goes down to zero? What then? I think his approach is smarter, as he is guaranteed to enjoy the rest of his life with his $2m, even if Bitcoin disappears. And he is still left with more than 600 BTC for the future.

I do hope you're right about Bitcoin going to zero being extremely unlikely. If Bitcoin's value keeps increasing, then it's obvious that your strategy makes the most sense and guarantees maximum profitability, and also low to zero taxation for those of us with modest needs, as the conversion to fiat can be kept to a minimum and only when needed. Also, converting large amounts of BTC to fiat has its own problems. Do we trust the banks to hold our fiat? What if there's a bail-in, as it has already happened in Cyprus? Then there's the depreciation of fiat due to inflation.

All these are valid reasons not to liquidate, and follow your strategy, provided Bitcoin keeps rising (or, at least, not dropping) in value. I hope Bitcoin has a bright future, but no one can know for sure, hence my conservative reply to BobLawblaw's post.

Sounds like a good plan, and I hope it all goes well for you. I really admire you guys, for being early adopters and seeing what the rest of us couldn't. The time has now come to enjoy the rewards of that foresight. Now for you, hopefully soon for the rest of us...

Forget the duck, Google is your friend...

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/setting-bitcoins-price-mechanism-cme-group-to-launch-btc-futures-cm869123

Are we Choo-Choo'ing right now?

Less than 110 € left for a nice CCMF ATH...

Go BTC go!

Oh that poor thing... You cruel man you...

Looks like there won't be any Choo-Choo'ing today...

Just be extra careful if you have a lot of coins. Mine are in a TREZOR and I dare not touch them. I had to change my old recovery seed to a fresh one because of the BCH hard fork, during which my coins always stayed in the TREZOR and the seeds kept offline.

I use Coinomi and it's a nice wallet, but I'm not sure I want to transfer all my stash there. I think I'll wait for a solution by the TREZOR team.

Maybe it's time for some BTC shopping... Part of me wants it to drop more, so I can get a couple of cheap(er) coins. But the thing is holding!

W T F   is that guys? Out of all the videos, only the first one was bearable (this one: https://youtu.be/hXRhIXp4idM), thanks to the pretty girls... How is it possible that people fall for this sh*t?

Damn!

It looks almost like a cult thing...

This is the first major attack on Bitcoin. In a few days/weeks we will know the outcome. If the legacy chain wins, it will come out stronger than ever. If we end up in a mess, the entire crypto space will be negatively affected. Common people and investors will be scared away, even more than they already are by Bitcoin's less-than-friendly methods. Bitcoin hasn't even matured yet, and it's being attacked by powerful entities filled with ego and greed. It's sad. We have something that's revolutionized the monetary system. This is only the beginning, and we want to kill it before it even matures. I guess it's human nature...

It's all fun and exciting, with Choo-Choos and memes, but the hard reality deeply saddens me. I do hope that some stability will be achieved soon, and that Bitcoin will survive the attack, unscathed and stronger than ever.

Too right!

Call me stupid, but I'm thinking of buying some more coins now... The thing is, if I buy after the fork, then which chain branch will my coins belong to? I don't want to have this uncertainty. I believe in Bitcoin, and even it there is a big drop, I believe and hope it will pick up again. So my losses will be in the short term. It has happened to me before, and HoDLing has rewarded me. Hopefully, after all is said and done, we will be left with valuable coins.

I've just transferred 10k € to Kraken to buy some more BTC, and now we're Choo-Choo'ing...

WTF?

Yes, but what if all those billions of users could just login to FB 2.0 using their legacy FB credentials? Wouldn't that be tempting? Wouldn't you do it, just to try the new system?

My problem with all this is that we are not talking about a new, incompatible altcoin that is based on the original code, but about a fork which gives the legacy chain's coin holders the right (or even the unintentional possibility) to use the new chain branch.

It's not about value, but about disruption and loss of credibility. A common, non-technical user wanting to sign up would have to choose between 400 different FB pages to register, and he would then be able to login only to the one single version he registered, whereas his friends who were long-time FB users would have access to all of them! They would post messages that can potentially be seen by the new user, but his replies won't reach them...

It's just an ugly mess for the newbie and the interested but non-technical investor, who will be scared away. The name "Bitcoin" should map to one codebase, one blockchain, one coin. I believe that all those forks are not intended to help Bitcoin, but to cause havoc and disruption for motives characterized by ego and greed. It's a cancer and it's unfortunate that it exists.

This is correct. That's why I said it's unfortunate that it exists, but it does, by design. Open Source is a good thing, probably the only method for achieving something as grand and revolutionary as Bitcoin, but it has its side-effects, which, combined with ego and greed, create this cancer. It remains to be seen how malignant it will be.

I believe there's no firmware present in a freshly-unpacked TREZOR. This means that, in order to be able to use it, you must download the firmware from SatoshiLabs (the creators of TREZOR) and program the device yourself. During this process, a digital fingerprint is displayed on the device's screen, that should exactly match the one shown on the computer screen. After doing all this, your TREZOR is supposed to be tamper-proof and ready to securely manage your keys.

This has got to be the funniest meme I've ever seen!

LOL!

I hope we have Carolina soon, as I've just got myself two shiny new BTC...

The Duck has awoken!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2378845.0

Time to cool down and have patience. Carolina is coming soon...

Carolina incoming!

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Guys, seriously, I don't know if you've noticed it, but we've coined two new and ultra-cool crypto terms:

Carolina

Being roached out

IMO, they both deserve to be up there with HoDL, Bitcorn, and This Is Gentlemen.

I love it!

LOL, yes, you're right! I was a CCMF newbie, not too long ago...

Damn! I wish that happened to me too...

No worries for me. I even bought 2 BTC at 6300 €/coin, but I don't mind. I know it will turn around and reach a new ATH soon.

Don't panic, and just HoDL. Tried, tested and 100% proven strategy for big long-term gains...

BCH is soaring...

Good for those who still have them.

It's a slaughterhouse...

Almost like my screen is bleeding.

I really NEED an ATH soon, to make use of those nice memes I made especially for it. Otherwise depression and suicidal thoughts will start to kick in...

Death by dumping...

In this Twitter feed, many people confirm they read it as early as the time of the Bitcoin Cash fork (1 August 2017). So it should be genuine, unless the guys that confirm it are in on the FUD game...

https://twitter.com/ToneVays/status/929162434790744064

That's was a very good prediction of what is now happening. The war on Bitcoin is just starting, and I fear that there will be a bloodbath coming. All because of ego and greed. Perhaps the SegWit2x cancellation was part of their plan. They knew what they were doing all along. It remains to be seen how strong and resilient the Bitcoin network is to that attack, and whether on not it will come out of it victorious. We will know soon enough.

I guess I should have taken my own advice...

I don't think the idea that's circulating lately, of BTC being a store of value (like gold) and BCH a coin for everyday use (like cash) makes sense. It doesn't make any sense, because, in that case, there's no point for BTC to exist, since BCH can technically be a store of value too. Why have two blockchains for two different types of usage, when one (BCH) can do both?

It's not about usage, but about control. Sad, but true. Human nature at its "finest". One thing's certain: if BTC comes out as the winner in this war, it will be stronger than ever. If not, we'll never see crypto in the same way again.

Maybe trying to lure people into buying BCH so they can have free new coins after the upcoming BCH fork...

What a forcking mess!

Just woke up...

WOW! Just fcuking WOW!

Have we been roached?

No need to panic. This is good for Bitcoin (the real one -- BTC). Let them pump all they have on their AltCash. When you have cancer you either sit and wait for your death, or you take the knife and cut it out. You will bleed, but you'll survive. Let's cut it out and move on.

Not much, I hope. It's Sunday. Come Monday, things should start looking the other way around. This is a big opportunity to buy cheap BTC and strengthen Bitcoin even more. Things should turn around. And soon.

Problem is, you don't need brains to fight that war, you need lots of coins...

I don't fear about Bitcoin, it will recover, and soon. I just made the wrong move and bought some at the top, but that's OK, we're heading there soon, so no worries.

CAROLINA coming soon!!!

You can tell it's an orchestrated attack on Bitcoin, by looking at the charts. Like staircases...

The Choo-Choo's engines are still revving... And when it goes full throttle it will annihilate them all!

Sometimes it helps to observe things from a different perspective... 3-day candles.

...and in linear Y-axis for the purists...

Too right!

Exactly this! Let me find the text... Here it is:


Such hypocrites... Keeping the community together... Yeah, right! You f*ckers!

Just imagine Satoshi Nakamoto dumping his 1,000,000 BCH all at once. BCH would go negative...

But... He's either dead, or Craig Wright...

Have you all read this sh*t? If you haven't, just read it. All of it. I don't think there's more to be said about this "coin"... I know the "enemy" has power, but I expected them to be better than this load of cr@p contained in this "Letter from the CEO"... Wow, we have a CEO now!

No need. The ultimate grand victory of Bitcoin over BCH will serve as their painful lesson. It's worse than killing them.

The last 45 minutes remind me of our nice Carolina days...

Go BTC go!

The good thing about the WO thread is that the English language writing skills of most of us are generally above average. The other threads are sometimes unreadable. I've stopped reading other threads, it's straight to WO for me. Updated info, a great mood, and readable posts.

I've made some nice Carolinas specifically for WO, reserved strictly for ATH events...

Come on BTC!

It all started with my post above...

...and perfected with the meme below...

Nice! And says "Carolina" too!

The good thing for Bitcoin is that the recent rise appears to have low correlation with any movements in BCH. This means that the recent rise does not come from BCH holders playing the markets and moving their coins back and forth, but possibly from genuine, new investors intending to keep their coins and support BTC, especially now that there are no forks on the horizon to cause uncertainty.

Could this mean that we are heading for some stability and a rise to a new ATH and beyond? I hope so.

The Choo-Choo is revving and standing by...

Forking hell...!

Are we Choo-Choo'ing now?

Now, that's some fine work you've done there BLB!
Excellent!

@erre: I added a small, but crucial, little detail... I hope you don't mind.

For Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Kraken has already given its customers holding BTC the equivalent amount of BCH. For any other forks of BTC, like Bitcoin Gold, you can't. Not directly anyway, if at all. You'll have to wait for Kraken to give them to you (if they decide to do so). You should have transferred them out of Kraken and into a wallet for which you have access to the private keys or recovery seed, and all this had to be done before the time of each fork.

In Bitcoin arithmetic, there's only (+) and (x). The CCMF operator was added recently, to allow for large number computations.

Cheesy, but suits the situation well...

https://youtu.be/PyeWRd7ZEBs

Excellent choice!

Photoshoppers of BCT, fire up yer engines and make some nice Choo-Choo Carolinas!

Nice way to spend your time when on sick leave and raining outside...

Edit: 350 € to go for the next Euro-ATH @ Kraken!

In the meantime, listen to this: https://youtu.be/wDe60CbIagg

My TREZOR's balance hesitates to reflect Kraken's rise... Could this mean something?

And, for the ones without love... With BTC, love (and more) will come quickly...

https://youtu.be/QHaA1beOwrY

Edit: Seriously, guys, what's going on? Is there a reason for the rise? Has the world seen the light?

McAfee will win the bet. And dick is going to be eaten too... It's a win-win situation.

It was always meant to be like this. By design. Just look at the BTC angles...

It will be done when it needs to be done. And it should be done the right way. The tech already exists (Lightning Network). Currently it's not necessary, as coffee can be bought with $, €, £, etc., that everybody has in their wallets. Buying coffee with BTC doesn't solve any problem at all. There is no need to do something right now, just to prove something. It will be done when it needs to be done.

Only 150 € left for Euro-ATH @ Kraken!

The Honey Badger knows...

Guys, don't you feel great right now?

Carolina, come to me!

BTC is under attack again, but it looks like it's holding strong...

The good thing about BTC is that all the weight of the altcoiners that never really wanted to have BTC, but bought them just to get free SegWit2x coins has now been lifted, and the price has risen due to (mostly) genuine, new investors that want to join in. For this reason, I believe that the BCH camp will have a much harder time winning this weekend's race.

Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. BTC will come out stronger after all this, and many will learn a hard and painful lesson.

I know this may be an opportunity for all of us to increase our BTC stash by trading the battle, but I'm not good at this game and will choose to sit on the sidelines and watch it all from a distance.

An inflated balloon has a lot of volume, but very little mass...

When watching a rising Bitcoin, I highly recommend listening to some fine epic music at a decent amount of volume.

Like Lesiëm's Times, and other albums.

https://youtu.be/9FEKdfFTHh8

~~~ Ode to Bitcoin ~~~

Till the sun never rises
The skies turn to grey
Till the earth stops revolving
All light fades away
Till the planets stop spinning
In the darkness above
I will treasure each moment
I am with you my love
Till the moment comes when time stands still.

Till the moon never beams
But in the sky tries to hide
Till the oceans and rivers
Fail to turn with the tide
Till my heart stops its beating
Till the stars burn away
I will always be with you
Till the end of all days
In that moment when the world is still.

Till the raindrops stop falling
The wind never blows
Till the mountains all tumble
To the seas far below
Till the stars lose their sparkle
And the ice melts away
I will love you forever
I will love you always
Till the moment when the skies no longer blue
Until then you know I'll still believe in you.

_________________________
Credit: Lesiëm - Fides
https://youtu.be/9FEKdfFTHh8

Amateurs writing amateur code...

I think you should edit out the guy's name and email address... Now you are almost advertising him...

I don't know if it's a BCH pump, but BTC is holding nicely. It looks like they've run out of steam now, and can only do minor damage.

Well, I hope so! Come Monday, we'll know.

To help clear away all misinformation posted about the Bitcoin Lightning Network (LN), may I suggest to all those interested in the facts, to read the white paper and other relevant documents here:

http://lightning.network/docs/

Section 1 of the paper should be particularly enlightening to those who still have doubts about LN's elegance and superiority in comparison with a mere increase in block size.

Amazing! Even in battle, the Honey BTCadger is Choo-Choo'ing... 

Jeez guys, BTC is pumping in-battle and you're talking binary and Chinese now?

Bow down on your knees, ye all people of BCT, and be well prepared to greet the beautiful and all-powerful CAROLINA!

So we're talking about transactions of $0.0015 each (tops). I wonder where they come from...

How can anyone support a coin whose team uses such methods?

This weekend's battle appears to be much less intense than the previous one. It seems that the majority of current BTC owners are genuine investors and HoDLers, and are not here to play the BTC/BCH/airdrop game. This strengthens the BTC side, and attracts more genuine investors that buy away the small dips that appear. Come Monday, a new BTC pump will surely restore the weekend's lost ground and take us to new heights, a string of ATHs, and eventually into 5-digit territory at the end of the year. This will be the t-0 for the rocket launch.

Go BTC go!

About jbreher's posts, I also think they shouldn't have been deleted. As much as I disagree with him, I like reading his way of thinking and don't mind his posts. If I don't want to read them or any other's posts, I just scroll down... I think the removal of posts should be reserved only for seriously offensive material.

Well said.

Personally I don't mind jbreher's posts because they are easily refuted using facts. So I don't think he is to be feared. But I understand your points, after all it's a Bitcoin thread (arguably the best there is), and it should stay a Bitcoin thread. Altcoin supporters and Bitcoin haters can go post in the appropriate sections or start their own threads.

Guys, we have a green vertical!

CAROLINA?

Edit: I really expected blood this weekend. I'm not complaining. I hope the BCH cancer is cleared away soon, and for good.

Just FYI, quoting from the website of SatoshiLabs (creators of TREZOR). Looks like TREZOR owners may be able to claim their Bitcoin Gold airdrop as soon as tomorrow (Monday, 20 November)!

I've posted this before. I wonder how it is possible for anyone who has read the official Bitcoin Cash's "Letter from the CEO" (link below), to keep supporting this joke of a coin...

https://www.bitcoincash.org/letter-from-the-ceo.pdf

It's mind-boggling to say the least. But then again, the brain is a complicated organ, that can often fail and make someone do all sort of weird things. "Live your own fantasy" as they say...  

Euro-ATH incoming...

The Honey Badger is unstoppable...

Very well said. I entered at $200 and have to pinch myself every morning to check that I'm not still dreaming... Those reading your post will do good taking your advice.

Gentlemen, the Honey BTCadger has done it again...

BTC ATH @ Kraken!

6800 €

He's looking at you! Don't you mess with him...

Forget sleeping... You will stay up and witness this!
All of us.

All hail the Honey BTCadger!

Wow, so much is happening...

So it seems Bitcoin Gold (BTG) is doing well. I guess it's that time of the year again, when I have to fire up my TREZOR and split my coins to get my BTG airdrop.

And now I read about another airdrop, Bitcore (BTX)! How come I missed that?

My plan is this:

1. Create a new recovery seed in TREZOR and move my BTC there.
2. Do the Bitcoin Gold (BTG) splitting on the old (empty of BTC) recovery seed.
3. What do I do to claim my Bitcore (BTX)?

If anyone knows the procedure for BTX, please let us know, I'm sure many of us have the same question.

Thanks!

Thanks. I did read the pages earlier, but felt the info was a bit confusing on what to do. I read them again now, and I think all info needed is contained in the following steemit page:

https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@xwerk/bitcore-btx-guide-the-2nd-snapshot-for-btc-hodlers-free-btx-or-how-it-works

Will empty my current wallet (seed) of all coins first, and then do the BTG and BTX splitting. Will let everyone know what happened, so that anyone wanting to do the same can have some reassurance on the correct procedure to follow.

Thanks AlexGR, you're right, it's not really worth the hassle. However, since I'm already moving my BTC to another seed, because of the BTG split process, and the old seed (with BTX claim rights) will be empty, it may be worth attempting it, even just for fun.

Damn! We reached 7000 € @ Kraken, followed by a very long vertical drop, which was promptly cancelled out by the Choo-Choo, bringing the price to almost 7000 € again.

CAROLINA!

I've just tried to import the private keys from addresses with funds on 2/11 to BitCore-Qt. A small window pops up showing "Rescanning...", and after a minute the console returns "null". No BTX coins appear in the wallet.

The only reason I can think of is that my addresses are all SegWit (beginning with a "3"). Could that be an issue? Anyone has any idea what may be causing the problem?

We're all dead. And we see dead people. And CCMFs and Lambos and shit.

And supergirls too. Freshly mined and ready.

Let's all pump Doge. Give the dog a chance... Woof woof!

Changelly accepts BTG. Has anyone used them? They look reputable, and cool too.

https://changelly.com/

I'm drooling for some more BTC from the BTG airdrop I got today. Or should I wait for an imminent BTG super-pump?

Thanks, good to know. Because Kraken don't list BTG yet, and even if they did, they are almost unusable lately...

Awww... I've read this so many times before, in this very forum...

When BTC was at $10 it was way overpriced and we should have sold...
When BTC was at $100 it was a bubble ready to pop and we should have sold...
When BTC was at $1000 it was whales manipulating the price and we should have sold...
Now BTC is at $8000+ it's a depreciating asset and we should sell...
When BTC will be at $25000 [...add FUD text here...]
When BTC will be at $100000 [...add FUD text here...]
...

Verba volant, scripta manent.

Guys, have all of you sold your Bitcoin Gold (BTG)?

I'm itching to sell them now, and do the following:

1. Buy Monero,
2. Buy more BTC.

What would you recommend? Should I sell my BTG now, or wait for a pump? And if I should sell now, which one of the two options would you recommend? I know this is altcoin territory, but it feels natural to ask here as I value your wisdom and opinion, and I'm sure many of you HoDL some altcoins in addition to BTC.

So, Bitcoiners, wait or sell your Gold, and what to buy?

Learned a new word today... Yesterday's one was "ameliorate" from one of JJG's posts. Isn't this thread great?

I really hope Wu will soon get what's coming to him. I hate seeing his coin in 4-digit values...

Thanks guys, I appreciate your replies. I'll think about it. It's tempting to keep the airdropped BTG when one sees the BCH airdrop "doing so well" lately. Bu we all know why, and who's behind it. About BTG, when I consider its history (ugly and poorly written initial website, inability to write a decent replay protection code, the premine period), I can't see it as a serious project, but more as a money-making scheme for its creators. OTOH, projects like Monero are much more refined and serve a real purpose (in Monero's case, complete anonymity and privacy).

Their site looks almost the same as those canned forks we've had before (BCH, BTG). And nobody seems to care about proofreading it. I just very quickly scanned trough the main page and spotted a typo in under 10 seconds:

WALLTETS

Also, the development team is a bunch of very well known and reputable folk in the coding community, with ties to the British MI6 mind you! I'm very reassured now...

Sorry if I made you do something that didn't turn out as profitable as it could have. Was obviously not my intention. But I believe any investment in BTC will pay out big in the coming months and years, so everything's fine I think.



Well, it appears that your prediction has come true. I held on to my BTG, not because I want them, but because I had to do some other things at home y'day, and could not be close to the PC to do the trade. Now I wake up and see the price of BTG surging...

I'm not an early adopter, though this is debatable, as one can argue that all of us are early adopters, even those joining now.

My only story, not nearly as exciting as yours: about a year ago I bought a TREZOR for 0.13 BTC. Now it's got to be one of the most valuable TREZORs in existence, valued today at a whopping 900 € ($1000).

Basically, this translates to the usual advice "never sell BTC". What I could have done is to keep my 0.13 BTC and just use my credit card to buy the TREZOR. I would now be 800 € richer. This is equivalent to converting some of my fiat money to 0.13 BTC at that time, and keeping it, which I didn't.

In other words, if you have two bags, one with fiat and another with BTC, using the fiat bag first will make you richer in the end. Which BTW goes against actually using BTC for everyday things, which hinders its widespread adoption, which is bad for BTC, but perhaps it's still early days for such use. We're all early adopters it seems. This is just the beginning.

Not yet, for Euro-land.

Euro-ATH (@ Kraken) is currently at 7115 €.

Now at 7020 €, still some gap left to cover, but getting there.

Carolina may be coming to sweeten our nights tonight...

Hang on! I thought that guy had only one functioning eye! WTF?

Kraken is pumping too, but lagging behind...

No ATH (yet) for Euro-land...



I was making fun of the guy.

I had more respect for him, until I read that "Letter from the CEO" thing...

https://www.bitcoincash.org/letter-from-the-ceo.pdf

Sad...

Euro-ATH @ Kraken!

7149.90 €

The wall at 7150 € is almost 200 BTC high... Will be be demolished today?

Oh yes, it will!

Done!

Euro-ATH @ exactly 7150 €.

Just to confirm, for everyone's FYI, that I've just sold some of my BTG using Changelly, and everything went flawlessly, and quite fast for the kind of service it provides. Well done Changelly!

Wow, that's a lot of fees you paid, sorry to hear about it! I just did a crypto-to-crypto transaction, in which case the fee is 0.5%, which I think is reasonable. My guess is that credit cards are a risk to them due to chargebacks, so they counterbalance this with high fees. Are the fees still that high for credit cards?

Another Euro-ATH...

If Bitcoin performs like this on a Saturday, then I'm looking forward to the coming Monday...

Go BTC go!

Another ATH...

Can't take it anymore, and I'm out of memes too.

Going out for a walk to breathe some fresh air. The atmosphere is so nice & clean after raining, with lots of negative ions...

Here I am, back from my walk, all refreshed and relaxed, and as I hit [F5] on the WO page, I snap! Right there! At that very moment! Tears well up in my eyes, and I feel a tingling sensation throughout my entire body... Almost, but not quite, like a full throbbing erection. Even before the post-refresh photons from the screen hit my retina, I come to the most profound realisation, one that would haunt us all for the rest of our physical and spiritual lives:

What's happening with the BTG price? I sold a good chunk of it earlier when it pumped, but now Coinomi shows a price of 5.22 €/coin. Must be a Coinomi glitch... CMC shows a small dip only.

I like the fact that they're using the mBTC unit. It's about time...

And another!

Now it's risen to 7260 7270 € at Euro-land.

Looking forward to the dream I'm going to see tonight.

400 BTC wall @ 7300 € (Kraken) is going to be a tough cookie to crack.

But it will fall, like the ones before it, and the ones after it.

Why? 'Cause Honey BTCadger don't care...

What a wonderful morning to wake up to! And sunny too!

When you look at a 5-minute Bitcoin chart and it looks exactly like a 1-week one, then you know that things are going in the right direction... Euro-ATH approaching 7500 € soon.

Go BTC go!

I dreamt of having taken a photo of my recovery seed and accidentally uploading it on the cloud. I realised this when I was on the road, away from my TREZOR. Then I had to rush home to transfer the coins, but somehow I could not move fast! It was as if I was inside a pot of honey in some way. Was struggling to move fast, but couldn't! Damn, that was one agonizing nightmare I had. Seriously, no joke.

About seasteading, I think that, given sufficient time, human nature will disintegrate it. It's true that communes exist, but the members of those communes are usually bound together very strongly by some common, usually supernatural belief system, often by means of force. An example is the Christian communes, many of which exist today. See, for example, the Amish and Mennonite communities. And is has been shown that, although it may appear otherwise on the outside, such communities are far from harmonious on the inside.

The problem I see with seasteading is that ego, greed and the lack of a strong, religious or cult-like binding force or belief system among inhabitants will result in heavy disputes about governance, heavy fighting and general unrest, up to a breaking point when the "mainland" will intervene and enforce order.

Even two people in a family are often unable to cohabit the same house without strong disputes and arguments, to the point of violence and divorce. Imagine what will happen when a group of several people, unknown to each other, and with lots of money to enforce their own opinions, preferences and desires, get together and attempt to co-exist in a relatively small area, physically isolated from the rest of the world...

The whole thing reminds me of Jacque Fresco's "The Venus Project":

https://www.thevenusproject.com

It may sound great, almost heavenly, on paper, but I don't think it can last for too long because, sadly, it is not compatible with human nature. And human nature is not easy to change. The former Soviet Union tried it with communism and they failed. It may sound pessimistic, but that's how we are designed.

Mmmm... 75(.)(.) € looks so nice!

I suggest we start posting when there's NOT an ATH.

OMG WTF?

Green vertical @ Kraken!

7750 € !!!

RSI has hit 96+%

I'm jealous... You $$$ guys will reach 10k very soon, while we €€€ chaps will still be at 8.3k... But there's still hope that 10k € will be reached by the end of the year.

Edit: BitcoinTalk being DDoS'd now? Or too many rocket memes being posted?

See? It's all about semantics! And the power of semantics is immense!

That's why we should adopt the mBTC unit. I've tried countless times to persuade people to buy BTC, only to get the same response: "BTC is far too expensive, I'll buy Doge instead."

1 mBTC = $9. Nice & cheap. Not expensive anymore! Everyone, come join in!

Edit: Something's coming... And it's RED and MEAN...

I've used Coinomi to claim some of my BTG and it worked flawlessly. Didn't use a seed, as I had already transferred some BTC to it before the fork, in order to ease the claim process. Important: you need to change the BTG address derivation path in order to get to your claimed coins. The normal Coinomi BTG wallet has a different path and your coins won't show straight away. Don't panic, just Google it, I think there's an official guide for this.

Fair enough. Satoshi is a good choice, and has been there from day one. It's even cheaper than Doge, as mentioned, so one could buy hundreds of thousands or even millions for cheap. I know what you mean about people not getting it, but sometimes these things do matter. Like pricing something at $9.99 instead of $10. It's a psychological thing.

And... gentlemen... we have some pump action developing nicely!

Bcash is pumping. Brace yourselves for battle...

Edit: Not as fast as I thought. Good! I hope Bitcoin holds...

No, we're going to live, and being poor we'll suffer more...
And then we'll die too...

My wet dream would be Satoshi Nakamoto dumping his millions of BCH and BTG for the real Bitcoin.

Where is the man anyway?

And is this transaction his?

https://blockchain.info/tx/29a3efd3ef04f9153d47a990bd7b048a4b2d213daaa5fb8ed670fb85f13bdbcf

Come on Satoshi, save us!

I find hairy women very attractive. Exactly as mother nature made them! Yummy!

And I hate make-up too. Putting paint on one's skin... Fake beauty.

I hope so. Got used to the excitement of the recent rise and now want more! This thing's addictive! But you're right, better slow and steady. We don't just want to rise up, we want to stay up.



Oh no, not again! I've heard about Diamond, but the rest I was not aware of. I don't mind free coins, but I hate the hassle of messing with my recovery seeds, with all the risks that such actions entail. I really like TREZOR's approach of safely splitting forked coins without having to change seeds or risking your BTC, but I very much doubt that the coins you list will be supported by TREZOR anytime soon, if at all.

I'm looking forward to it.

Have prepared a special artwork, just for the WO thread, but I'm saving it for that moment when Euro-ATH will touch 10,000 €. It looks like we are moving steadily towards it, and could get there even earlier than that. Anyway, as long as it happens in 2017 I'm more than happy!

Waiting for the meme veterans from $$$-Land to celebrate their $10k victory, which will happen at any moment now... Congrats guys!!!

Go BTC go!

Wow! I was away for one full day and came back to at least 10 pages of posts. And for good reason! We are marching ahead and this train is unstoppable. Sure, there will be dips, mostly small ones, with some bigger ones in between. I was a newbie once, and still improving on my skills, not as a trader, but as a HoDLer. Yes, HoDLers need skills too. Like the strength to resist a sell when the price is dropping almost vertically. I remember back in early January, Kraken saved me from selling a big chunk of my stash during the big dip that happened then. How? I tried many times to place a sell order, but Kraken's toasters kept giving me failures. The order never managed to go through. So, Kraken, thanks for the slowness, you are a HoDLer's exchange!

My advice: do not sell any of your BTC, unless you know exactly what you're doing, or you absolutely have to. Don't panic at the dips. Instead, buy the dips (if your fiat wallet allows it). I think Jimbo's strategy is a good one to follow if you are a HoDLer with spare fiat to invest.

From what I've read in your posts, $10k has been reached in several exchanges and has appeared in CoinMarketCap. This is a cause for celebration in $$$-Land, and congrats to all of you (and to all of us, really) for reaching this milestone. Next for Euro-Land is the 10k € milestone, which, I believe, will be reached by the end of 2017. And if institutional investors join in during 2018, the rise will be stratospheric. I'm nowhere near the amounts of BTC many of you have (don't advertise it too much BTW), but I trust that the Honey Badger will be good to those with even two- or one-digit BTC stashes. The less the digits the longer the delay (by about 1-2 years per digit), but we may all get there in the end.

Go BTC go (and 10k € soon)!
Let the memes flood WO!

Do it. I did it and it was flawless. You update to f/w v. 1.6.0, connect to TREZOR's beta wallet, choose BTG and click on the coin splitting link. The BTG address (if you want to keep your BTG in TREZOR) is automatically filled in (you should verify it's the correct one nevertheless). No need to move your BTC, LTC, whatever other coins you have, outside of TREZOR or change seed if you don't want to.

I've done the above and everything went smoothly.

What a wonderful morning to wake up to!

Kraken $ is at almost $10500 (enough said)
Kraken € is at over 8600 €

Congrats to everyone! Just HoDL!

I'm off to work and can't wait to see where this bull is going to be when I'm back...

Oh, I forgot...

He's looking at you! Don't you mess with him...

For the tulip holders of the time, it must have been really tough keeping those super-expensive tulips healthy... They would have to water them regularly and protect them, and even feed them nutrients. Must have been really stressful for them.



Yes, and I like it that way! See reply above. BTC is really just some numbers with rare properties, not something organic and alive, no need to water or feed your coins. A TREZOR does all the work. Just HoDL!

I was just about to post a meme of Salma Hayek, but you've already corrected it.

Easy. #1 because with my 3 BTC I will soon be able to do #2 and #3 (and be left with more than 2 BTC)...

Well, 2017 is out, tulip money will come after you sell them. By that time you will barely be able to buy 1 BTC with that money. The following year it will be 0.1 BTC, the one after that 0.01 BTC, ad infinitum. With option #2 you'll end up with exactly 1.111... BTC, according to my calculations.

OK, either #1 or #2 is fine with me. But, for heaven's sake, NOT #3. I find the look of that woman (specifically, her face) ugly as hell!

I think it's her lips. Too fleshy/fat. I wonder if they are natural of man-made. Looks freaky and abnormal to me. Another poster mentioned it too earlier. The rest of her body is OK though.



Precisely!

---

Back to the topic, I think it's a good thing that we had that correction. It felt good to me. It's like breathing in and out. Has to be done every once in a while or the thing dies. Also, the drop is not as deep as in a big bubble bursting. It's holding now around 8000 € ($9500), which is a spectacular performance. Considering it was under 1000 € at the start of the year, we're talking about an 8x rise!

I guess we've all become used to choo-choos, rockets and moons, and we don't like it when the beast breathes out, but the fact is that BTC has had a stellar performance this year, much better than 2016.

So HoDL back and enjoy the ride...

It's just your conscience telling you that you did.

Wait until we reach 10000 €...

I have made some exclusive artwork, just for BitcoinTalk's WO thread...

So, theymos is now advising those of us who went 50% in on Bitcoin, and are now nearly 90% in due to a rising Bitcoin, to sell 45% of our BTC stash, in order to return to the initial BTC/total investment of 50%.

I respect him, but can't help but wonder if that is a good piece of advice... I feel I should have invested more in BTC when I could. But I guess that's the greedy side of me talking. Will see how things play out...

Sure, the "don't invest what you can't afford to lose" advice is good and should be followed by all but the most adventurous. But if you've already applied it when you invested initially (at 50%), then it still holds true now that you're at 90%, so you can still be adventurous without the risk (well, you're only risking your current gains).



Of course, it would be sad to live poorly and in misery just to keep a big BTC stash! But if your life was already OK before investing your 50% on BTC, I don't see a good reason for returning from 90% to 50% just to secure the profits. It's a risk that many of us are willing to take. If BTC goes to the moon, all the better for us. If it drops to zero, the initial investment was small anyway, so life goes on as normal. That's the way I approach it.

I've rephrased my original post, removing the FUD part, as I feel I was too harsh on him. It is very possible that a huge bear period will come, and we may well lose more than 50-80% of our BTC's current value. But even at that point, there's still profit to be made for many of us, especially the very early adopters.

In short, personally, I'm planning to liquidate half of my BTC stash at the time when the fiat value I will get is enough to allow me to quit my job and pursue an independent career in my field. The other half I will keep, in the hope that BTC will eventually become something much bigger than it already is.

Thanks for replying JJG. I read the entire reddit post by theymos, but just can't follow his advice. I'm not a trader like you, and have been studying the posts here, in order to slowly pick up on trading methods. I have nowhere near the amount of BTC that veterans here like you, Jimbo or BLB have, so for me it's an "all or nothing" game. If I sell almost half of my stash, I'm effectively reducing the chances of financial independence. I will ride the wave and let it take me where it may.

Lucky guy! You have 0.1 BTC with 2 confirmations! Got yourself more than $1k today!

And also respekt to proudhon for standing by his word.

Nice one! 

Where's kwukduck?

ATHs everywhere...

Amazing!

Go BTC go!

It's not doing badly for a free coin... I would never buy it though.

Same with Bcash. I have never (and would never) buy Bcash. If there ever was a hope of me taking this coin seriously, it all died when I read that "Letter from the CEO" nonsense written by that pirate guy... 

I don't think it was meant as a prank letter...

Or maybe it's my (lack of) sense of humour...

Honey BTCadger gets what he wants.

And he never, NEVER sleeps!

Aye aye, captain (to keep with the pirate spirit)!

You pwned me!

---

When will it cross the 10,000 € mark (Kraken)? WHEN?

Come on, HBTC, eat that fcuking cobra. Finish her NOW!

Oh man, I'm so dying to see this!!!

9990 € @ Kraken too...

This time I see the $ market has risen a bit, and this may provide the final push past the 10000 € mark.

Ladies and gentlemen. It is my great pleasure to announce a historic event in Bitcoin's unstoppable march to infinity. Today we have reached a new All-Time-High, one of special significance, that brings Bitcoin to 5-digit € values in Euro-Land!

BTC ATH @ Kraken!
☺10,000 €☺

To mark this special event, I'm offering you some of my unpublished original artwork, made for, and dedicated to all participants of the WO thread here at BitcoinTalk, for your viewing pleasure. The image posted is in 720p (1280 x 720 pixels) resolution. For those interested in using it as a desktop wallpaper for larger screens, or for other uses, please let me know and I will post versions in 1080p (1920 x 1080 pixels) and 4K (3840 x 2160 pixels) resolutions.

To the Moon and BTCeyond!
Enjoy!

Kraken Euro-ATH (again)!

10200 €

Ver are dem CAROLINAS???

Somehow I think all those "experts" who are bitching like madmen about Bitcoin being dangerous and all, are doing it out of bitterness for missing the Choo-Choo when they had the chance to get on board... Trying to justify their decision.

12,000 € ATH @ Kraken!

There's no point anymore...

I'm off to bed to make some profits while sleeping. Will be checking the charts in my dreams.

See you guys tomorrow!

---

PS: Well done, Andreas! Well deserved!

You know, when we were discussing seasteading, I thought of LRH's Sea Org...

It's extremely difficult to create BTC, and that gives Bitcoin value, just like gold and silver are difficult to mine, and that gives them value.

I dare anyone who says Bitcoin has no value, to make one now and send it to me. Can you? If not, then STFU!

I like these small dips. It shows that the current Bitcoin growth is healthy and not a bubble. Nice & steady. I'm hoping for at least 15000 €/BTC by the end of the year.

Go BTC go!

I never liked those super-expensive cars... Most of them are way over-priced, offer no real design/technology innovation, consume lots of fuel, and some are really ugly to my taste (Lambos included).

I'd prefer a good Japanese, super-reliable and normally-priced car. Or a car with real innovation in its design, like a Tesla (provided they sort out their QC issues).

This would not change at all if I had 10, 100, or 1000 BTC.

Bitcoin is holding nicely, amidst a few dips. I like it! Looks like we've conquered the 10k € level and are marching ahead.

Also, Litecoin is getting lots of love lately. I have some, so I'm happy too.

Go BTC go!
Go Ł go!

The Honey BTCadger always eats the bear in the end...

All very true, and thanks for posting it Jimbo.

I, too, almost never sold any coins, and in the few cases that I did, I have regretted it, seeing the price skyrocket since then. Our coins are precious little mathematical gems that should be treasured, and only used when necessary, or when the time comes to enjoy them.

I keep reading about how precious metals are so much better than cryptocurrencies, and it saddens me to see so much anachronism and old-time mentality here in this thread (I wonder why those posts are posted here...). We have been trained to assign value only to material things that we can see and touch. The idea of something non-material possessing value is very difficult for many to grasp. Instead of embracing and supporting it, we dismiss it, much like Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity was dismissed by the Newtonian scientific establishment of the time. But the truth always prevails, and so did Einstein's theory, and the new ones that will come after it, despite all those who object them.

What Satoshi Nakamoto started with his remarkable invention will be included in the history books of the future, and all those who object and dismiss it will be the new Newtonians that are left behind.

Human intelligence has an upper limit, but human stupidity is truly infinite and boundless...

Kraken is downtown...

It's the Honey BTCadger... He's now full from eating the cobra and all those larvae (that's so disgusting), and is now chilling... Soon he'll be hungry again and... Up we go!

Wow, that twirling effect on that site is mesmerizing!

I think I must have spent at least 10 minutes just staring at it...

Good work Jeff!

This sideways movement is killing me... Come on BTC, do something!

We can't go on like this...

And, it seems that the entire Internet has become slow suddenly... Kraken doesn't refresh (what's new?), Bitfinex is still "processing" my crypto withdrawal, BitcoinTalk is slow as a dried-up snail... Funny thing is that everywhere I go, I end up with that familiar Cloudflare error page, complete with Ray IDs and all. Damn!

Is crypto dead? Where's the link to that DDoS song (love that female voice)?

LOL!!!

United BlackHoleCoin... It sucks everything.

Man, you're right! What have I done? Are we...

Oh, wait...

https://youtu.be/4r7wHMg5Yjg

"That's sooo nasty!"

Great video, thanks. I've always been fascinated by typography. Good to know the story behind Futura.

But for "United Bitcoin" I think RealMachasm's toilet analogy is more fitting...

Nice to see green as the dominant colour on my screen...

Kraken Euro-ATH incoming...

Super quick! You quoted me before I managed to correct my edit!

From Kraken's announcement:


Be extra careful guys! We don't want a $5 wrench unlocking our wallets!

Oh, how I'll really enjoy quoting this discussion when the Lightning Network (or other proper scaling solution) goes live and becomes mainstream...

Reminds me of a song by Leonard Cohen:

"and all the lousy little poets coming round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The "bigger blocks" solution hasn't been tested on a network of the size and load of that of Bitcoin. Bcash is not Bitcoin. "Bigger blocks", will appear to solve the problem for some small amount of time, until the fees will rise again and we'll soon be asking for "even bigger blocks", ad infinitum. A proper scaling solution should be implemented, one that can scale right now to peak-time VISA levels, by design.

No.

Why? Because the way it currently works, every little transaction that occurs has to be recorded in the blockchain. Even the 1 € transfers that I made to my students to demonstrate Bitcoin to them, or the coffees that millions of people will potentially buy every morning will have to be broadcast, confirmed, and be forever present in it. I argue that this is unnecessary. There is no need for every little micro-transaction to be explicitly recorded in the blockchain.

Instead of constantly increasing the block size to accommodate for those millions of near-zero value, but non-zero data size transactions, we should aggregate them into a much smaller number of massive-value, but small data size transactions that would be added to the blockchain daily or weekly or whenever needed. The fees can be high, because a single fee payment can cover millions of micro-transactions, where each individual's actual coffee fee could be less than a cent. Having high on-chain fees can be beneficial in actively discouraging spam attacks on the network, so the blockchain stays clean of spam and contains only high-valued transactions that have a reason to be there, and justify the fees paid.

That's roughly the idea behind the Lightning Network. This already happens in computer data transfers. Bits are not transferred one by one, but in packets of bytes, which in turn form much bigger packets of data payloads, and it is these big packets that get checksummed and validated and transferred as big chunks of data. There are different layers of data processing that are in place to optimally achieve the end result. That's how networking works and that's how I believe Bitcoin's scaling issues should be approached. We should aim for VISA-class throughput, not a mere 4x or 8x increase.

I understand that the network is at its limits and something needs to be done very soon. But just imagine what will happen if something goes wrong... The whole thing could collapse! The code base maintainers have a huge responsibility to ensure that the new code works as intended and for that they must do extensive testing and validation before releasing it in the wild. It's no piece of cake. You saw what happened with Bcash. They had to fork it themselves to replace the poorly written EDA algorithm. You only had to glance at the graphs to see the quality of each network. It's no easy task. The core devs have chosen a conservative approach, maximizing robustness and stability as much as they can before releasing any updated code. It can be a painfully slow process, but I trust it will lead us to the proper scaling solution in the end.

15,000 € incoming (Kraken).

BTC ATH @ Kraken!
☺15,000 €☺

To the Moon and BTCeyond!
Enjoy!

I can't prove to you that it can, but I believe that it is several orders of magnitude better than a mere block size increase.

A block size increase is equivalent to enlarging a steam engine in the hope that it will take you to the moon, when all you really need is a rocket engine. It's not about size, it's about technology.

Guys, what's happening?

Kraken (€) is pumping like there's no tomorrow...

15387 15420 €

Oh man, I will dream about BTC again tonight...

The 5-minute chart looks exactly like the 1-day one... Amazing!

Go BTC go!

I'm not seeing what I'm seeing...

This is not happening...

DIS IZ FREAKIN GENTLEMAND!

Pet Shop Boys - Opportunities (Let's Make Lots of Money)

Cheesy, yes, but fitting for the occasion.

Just the Honey BTCadger breathing in and out, and off he goes...

Prepare for 16k € by midnight (GMT)!

I find it fascinating to watch those clips. I can spot things I never saw or thought of much when I was a kid.

Fitting lyrics, and a great song!

Oh, and BTW...

Euro-ATH @ Kraken!

!!! 16,000 € !!!

You're so wrong... Have you ever carefully examined a physical Bitcoin? Have a good look at the image attached at the end of my post.

Notice what it says along the edge: "1 Troy Oz 999 Fine Copper". Do you know why? In order to stress the fact that Bitcoin's value doesn't come from some rare material properties (like gold or silver). Rather, its value comes from its set of rare mathematical properties, which is something entirely non-material. So, it doesn't matter at all whether a Bitcoin (its private key) is printed on a gold coin, a copper coin, a piece of paper, carved on a piece of wood, stored in any analogue or digital medium, or even spoken over a phone conversation. All these material objects are just carriers of information. Bitcoin's value is not derived from the material itself, but it is contained in the information it carries.

The problem is that we humans have been brainwashed from the day we are born, to associate value with something material. If we can't see or touch something, it can't possibly have any value, right? Wrong! And Bitcoin is currently the best demonstration of this, just like a mathematical equation, such as E = m*c^2, is not valuable because of the kind of paper it's written on, but because of the information its symbols and their associations carry.

The physical Bitcoin depicted in the image below does not serve any practical purpose. It is not necessary to exist. It is merely there to help guys like you understand and take notice of it. After all, a paper wallet is worthless, right? Contrast this with that beautiful, shiny coin! This has got to be much more valuable than that petty paper wallet, right?

Thanks for updating the poll.

The range $22,000-$24,000 is missing... And it's the one I want to pick! Can you please add it?