The price is climbing quite fast now, presumably because lots of people are buying while the price is low.  But do we really think that's the end of it, a quick dip in price, fast recovery and job done?  I hope I'm not being silly by waiting to see what Binfinex say about their plans for going forward before I jump on the buy-in bandwagon.  If I've missed the chance to buy at $550 I'll kick myself.  But I can't help feeling there's another drop ahead.  Such a shock to the markets surely can't be recovered from so quickly, can it?

I never suggested the hack would "kill bitcoin".  i have no doubt that Bitcoin will quickly recover to at least where it was before.  I just mean that this seems too fast, like in the movies when a character thinks the bad guy's dead so they turn their back, and then the bad guy comes at them with another attack.  I think it's too early to be sighing with relief just yet.

Now the price is lower than I bought for last week and I can't buy any more until Tuesday.  I'm now watching helpless either way....  maybe I'll be able to snap up some bargains by Tuesday 

Sorry, what's HODL??  I'm guessing Hold On/Out... something 

Haha!!  LOL that's much better than an acronym    Thanks guys for explaining 

[off-topic]

Wow, really??  Please keep it to yourselves then.  In my country we are still in the 2008 recession and expected to remain so for several more years yet.  We never recovered.  In my region we have more than 50% unemployed.  The last thing we need is to be hit by more recession waves...  It's true I know very little about economics but clearly southern Europe doesn't follow the standard model.

Excellent analogy with Hiroshima BTW, I'll make a note of that one!

[/off-topic]

We're up nearly 10 euros today on Kraken 

The price is twitching a little!  Nobody seems quite sure yet which way it's going or what they want to do with their BTC.  The buy walls are rising though...

Wowee!!!!  I'm watching Kraken EUR too and it's gone up 10 euros just while I've been sitting here!!!  

I'm hoping it's going to jump high and fast enough that my altcoin purchase order goes through too 

And up another 10 euros or more!!  Bloody hell, I can feel that G-force!!  This is going to be fun 

Past $780 on Coinmarketcap!!!  Hold on to your hats!! 

I hope you're right!  I got bitten by FOMO in the middle of the night and went on a shopping spree at Kraken 

This is the second day with no movement on the price.  I wonder if it will keep up this suspense all the way to Christmas!  One thing's for sure, it's eventually going to swing either up or down 

This is amazing!!!  I don't have much bitcoin but I bought most of it in the post-Bitfinex slump and am getting very excited watching the price rocket now.  So I want to be included in this thread for posterity 

So what's happening now??  Is this a healthy consolidating correction before the next upward surge or has the bubble just burst??

I'm buying  . Thanks for the pretty bubble picture, I like that philosophy!

Whoop whoop whoop!!  Think we'll see 1000 euros by tomorrow?? 

It's so close I can smell it!  By tomorrow do you think? 

Looks like we're having another little correction before the next flight upwards. Looking good as far as I can see, consolidating as we go along!

Not much of a "dip" is it?? 

Just hit 1,000 EUROS on Coinmarketcap!!!!!!!  Woohoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

Woah woah woah!!!  How low will it go?    My bitty buy orders have been going through faster than I can type them so I'm just sitting on my hands and watching for a while....  This is one hell of a drop  

Well I hope the rally doesn't power back up again until tomorrow!  Today's fun and games has cost me all the fiat I had on Kraken... I've had to send more!  

Looks like the train is pulling out of the station again!  I can hear the whistle 

That's fine too, but if there's a second dump I hope it waits until my fiat hits Kraken 

Haha, I've realised that!  That's why I already spent all my Kraken fiat during today's dump 

Where is everybody going to see the 3-year charts?  Bitcoinwisdom doesn't seem to go back more than one week.

That looks perfect, thank you!!

I know I was willing the price to come down a bit so I could buy more Cheap Coins^TM but I've caught too many falling knives already since this drop started.... if this thing doesn't stop falling soon I will be in the red 

Hands up who knew this wasn't just a dip when we first dropped below 1,000?

Well, I've just set a limit order to spend the last of my fiat at 500.  Now I'm going to go to sleep (it's 4am here) and try not to look in on Bitcoin for the next three months 

Goodnight 

Almost certainly 

If you think it's going to drop that low, why did you just buy in in the first place?  Just calm down and HODL.  As long as you can wait for a couple of months all will be well 


PS.  Good morning folks!  So much for my plan to stay away 

That ask side is looking pretty big and growing. What does that indicate?

Well it's been going in the right direction for a few hours now, that has to be a good sign!  Even if it doesn't hold, it's at least given us a few hours to recharge our batteries ready for the next run.

That's a good thing, right??

Whoop whoop!  I can live with that 

Oh crappy-o, it looks like we're going down again    BTC didn't even rise enough to give me a proper dip on my favourite altcoin!  I feel better if I can keep my liability split 50/50 between the two but after the events of the past few days I've spent heavily on Bitcoin and now I feel too one-sided and too vulnerable to Bitcoin's fluctuations. It only needed to rise a little bit more (and the alt dip a little bit more) for my buy order to go through on Polo, but now they've see-sawed the wrong way  

If you mean the price of Bitcoin is going to rise, I wish it would hurry up about it!

Well, if we don't start going up today, we'll go up tomorrow, and if not tomorrow, the day after..... I've decided to take the "it's all cool" approach 

OMG that's exactly what my chart looks like right now 

All that upward breakout behaviour was a trick 

Yeah, I'm in negative equity now too. It's all cool though, it can only go down so low before it goes up, and when it goes up I'll be happy that I bought more coins while it was falling. It's all good 

So if I've been following this thread right, the next 24 hours are critical!!!

Meanwhile some of us have spent up and face yet another critical weekend with no fiat on the exchanges 

Who's there? 

Source?

Looks like these minor fluctuations are getting much tighter now, breakout must be soon.

But which way will it break??

I call UP!!!! 

Or else this enormous cup requires a proportionally large handle, in which case this clambering up and dripping down could continue for months?

I figured May too, but then I'm very much a newbie to looking at these charts.  I'd say this May earliest, but it could be as late as then end of 2018.  I'll be disappointed if the handle has to extend into 2019 before we get our almighty surge to the cosmos...

Nice!  I wonder to what extent analysis like that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as traders work towards the expectation of that climax at that time....

I agree.  Bitcoin needs public attention from someone who will lend it an image of legitimacy, not the guy who is perceived by the general public to be the dodgiest and most criminal name on the internet....

Wow, what caused that little lurch downwards??

Just when I think the price has stabilised for a while, we get another little downward bump.  It's all cool though - as long as our stomachs can stand a few more weeks/months of this downward turbulence, we're going to have the most amazing handle to finish off the cup!!!! 

Sorry, I know the price is liable to leap in either direction at any time, and thanks to the recent bounces I now feel well suited-up for a plunge as well as fuelled up to fly - whichever happens first.  I really just meant that it looked as though it had settled, as in found a lull, long enough for me to be able to take my eyes off it for half an hour without coming back to a surprise!  Instead I checked back after watching a telly program to yet another surprise.  Well, not really a surprise, of course, but when I guessed the price before I looked I was wrong 

I have just had my first practice at drawing lines on a Bitstamp chart and I hereby predict that around midnight on 22nd January UTC (that's the midnight after 21st January), the trend will decide whether it's going to go up or down 

If it decides it's going down, we'll see €760 ($813 USD?) by the early hours of 27th January.

I could show you my pic but I'm not subscribed to any of those image sharing sites and pastebin won't do images.  I'm curious to see how far out I am though 

Thanks for that!!  That's useful!  Ok, here goes.  I'm sure it's a load of crappydoodle but please be gentle and constructive 


Zoomed-out, I tried to identify the long-term support line:




Then I zoomed in and marked the trend top and bottom and the short-term support line:




The times I've referred to are the two criss-crossy bits furthest right.  I hope I haven't confused anybody with my highly technical language 

Nicked!  Thanks 

Hey, the first bit of my prediction was damn near spot-on!!  If the second bit turns out correct(ish) also for deep downward over the next week, then this could be a pretty awesome b-to-c part of the handle formation!!

Wow, that recovered fast!!  I have no idea what's going to happen next - are we headed up or down? 

The bull v. bear stuff is something that has always puzzled me.  I mean, surely anybody who owns any bitcoin is a "bull", no?  Because if they were truly "bearish" about Bitcoin, they'd have kept their money in fiat, in a bricks & mortar bank, where it's "nice and safe".  Nobody's going to have put their cash into Bitcoin unless they believe the price is going to go up.

Am I being overly simplistic?

Where are you guys looking??  I don't see a train leaving. Maybe I'm on the wrong platform... 

Because Marine Le Pen is a hard-right anti-EU nationalist and her election would probably result in "Frexit" and thereafter the rapid implosion of the European Union and the end of the Euro currency.

Normally I'd agree with you, but we said the same about Trump and Brexit.  Now, clearly, anything is possible, the world is changing.  I'm betting Merkel loses to the hard-right candidate too...

Ok, so we've established that Marine Le Pen's performance in the French polls could affect the price of Bitcoin, yes? 

Anyone here remember Bitcoin? 

Mooooon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree JJG.  I can't get away from the feeling that something big is coming, and it does look more likely that the breakout will be upwards.  I'm fuelled up 

I mean regarding the price of Bitcoin    In general just getting out of bed is something big for me 

Wo-wo-woah!  What effect is that likely to have?

Actually, it's great that we seem to be pausing to consolidate as we go.  I could stand this all the way to $10k 

Jesus, I hoped this thread might become readable after I put r0ach on ignore (get help, fast, you're a danger to yourself and others!)

Somebody please PM me when we're ready to start talking about Bitcoin again.

I call $1000 in 48 hours, €1000 by the weekend 

We're going to break the K properly this time, it's time.  And we're consolidating all the way, so even if we're skipping over and under the K for a couple of days, once it sticks it's stuck. 

It looks like €1,000 euros is going to prove quite an obstacle. We keep touching it but it just isn't sticking!

I'm getting bored now.... *yawn*

Come on, €1,000, we're waiting for you!!!

Something big is about to happen... I can tell because Kraken keeps timing out 

I call up!  This rise is so steady and solid that when we eventually get back over 1k euros again, I think we'll stay in four figures.  Next stop 2k 

Yep, they've all gone!!!  Wow...    I'd better get some more coins bought before 3 figures is gone forever 

Over €1,000 euros now... please stick, please stick, please stick!!! 

That would make me very happy! 

I like the way you're thinking 

I know I'm just being impatient but this is starting to get quite disheartening.  Especially after I've been buying like mad to get in under €1,000 this feels like such an anti-climax!  Hopefully tomorrow when the banks reopen we might start to see more movement in the right direction 

For the first time in a long time, I'm actually happy for the price to just stagnate today.  I had to spend some of my stash over the weekend and can't replace it until my money transfer hits the exchange tomorrow  

I know the odds are against it but I can't help thinking maybe it might just pass.  I mean, bitcoin is going to happen anyway and the SEC, the governments can't really control that and they must know it.  But an ETF would give them the ability to control the big money that goes in and out of bitcoin even if they can't control bitcoin itself.  An ETF would open up a huge regulatable gateway to bitcoin, of which the government can play gatekeepers to their heart's content!  If the SEC sees it that way, I think it's in  

Moon can't be less than 20k, surely?? 

Hello, NEW EURO ATH on Kraken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Whoop whoop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

What a lovely day,
Bitcoin's going to the moon!
We'll all be rich soon 

WTF just happened???  Kraken's crashed too 

Good question, I've been wondering the same thing along the lines of will the ETF offer shares in coins that the Winkies already own (not affecting the market) or will new coins be bought up quickly according to demand (cue market)?

Maybe the market is now just waiting to see what the SEC says and what effect that will have...

I don't think we can be so sure it won't.  I still think TPTB might see the ETF as an initial step towards gaining a handle on bitcoin.  Like Google's strategy of controlling the primary gateway to the internet, an ETF would be a government-controlled gateway into bitcoin, and as the gateway used by very wealthy non-techie types, it would be a very important gateway to control.

I hadn't twigged that the 11th is a Saturday... how odd... I wonder if that means in real terms that we'll know the outcome by close of business on the Friday...

This is exactly why I suspect the market is now just waiting to find out.  Nobody can be sure what effect a decision either way will have on bitcoin, but by now most people will have positioned themselves according to how they think it will play out and, unless some other factor comes into play in the meantime, I suspect we're just going to hover around here until the 11th, poised to respond to whatever happens then.

The only thing that makes one person "better" than another is how they treat others.

So, bitcoin, $1200 where tf are you??

Maybe we should actually try and reach $1200 first..... 

Stamp is only $20 away from gold parity!!

woohooooo!!!!  That £1k is a great milestone!!

Breaking gold parity has got us an article in the BBC - that's mainstream!!  They still want to make bitcoin sound really scary though...

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39149475

Absolutely!!  Bitcon isn't all about ETF, it will rise long term anyway based on its own merits.  Plus there are two other ETF applications in the SEC's approval queue  

Proof or STFU.

Oh that guy!!  Excellent, buy order placed for 362,840 BTC 

I like you @Torque 

I guess the others are just getting bored because the price hasn't moved in a while.  When we either break $1300 or crash below $1100, they'll forget I'm here

Yeah, I think $1300 will happen tomorrow.  Given all the claims we've had this weekend that the ETF is already approved, regardless of how false thise claims may be, and the banks reopening to let money flow to the exchanges, I think people won't be able to resist taking extra steps to make sure they're on that rocket when it launches 

I'm intrigued by Elwar's jump to 3 in his countdown!

I didn't tell you the ETF is already approved.  I said some people are claiming it is.  Personally, even though I think there's a good chance the ETF will be approved, I think all claims to know anything up until this point are bollox.  But as we all know, markets can be driven quite well by complete bollox  

As for Elwar's number 3, only he can explain that one  

Ooh this is exciting!!  Do you really know something or are you just tormenting us?  I guess only time will tell...

I like what you did there, @HI-TEC99, giving us a hidden message with your insider knowledge!!! 

It seems that if we don't hear anything today then we must still wait until close of business Monday before we start to second guess anything.  I'm expecting to have to wait until the very last moment on Monday to find out either way.  That way, any earlier news will be a pleasant surprise but the wait won't drive me mad.  I can wait patiently until Monday night 

Yeah I understand the why drag it out, but on the other hand, why announce the decision before they have to?  Granted I know nothing about the how the US government works.  In the country where I live, officials never do anything before they absolutely have to, whether top government, the local civil servants or the cashiers on the tills.  And even then they might not do it before the deadline.  Deadlines are only for the little people, afyer all.  So patience is a valuable skill here  

But surely that $300 million wouldn't really come straight into bitcoin?  I don't know how many coins the Winklevii have but surely it's their own coins that will be used for the fund.  The bitcoin markets will only benefit after all the Winklevii coins have been fully subscribed and they need to buy more to supply investor demand, no?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something there, then approval won't mean a huge injection of market cap for bitcoin, it will only encourage further speculation from direct bitcoin investors hoping that capital will seep through into bitcoin eventually.  And if it's rejected, well, nada.  The recent rise was going to happen anyway.  I really don't see the price falling below $1,000.  Rejection might even be seen as a positive move for normal traders because it would mean no change from the status quo, no uncertainty, no more worrying about the effects, and bitcoin can continue the upward trajectory it was already on unhindered.

Well fuck me sideways and call me Dave  

Again again!  Again again!!!

Anyone else starting to feel seasick?? 

guys guys guys!!  The orange circle saying COIN is unlisted has disappeared from the Bloomberg chart!!!!!!!!!!  https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/COIN:US

Ten minutes ago it said it was unlisted on an orange disc in the middle of the empty price chart.  It still says unlisted on the left but the orange disc has gone.  It's a change.  I don't know what it means but it's a change.  Somebody's working on the page.

They must have read my post - the orange blob is back  

LOL - brilliant!!!

It's a hot malt drink.  It's vile.

Jeez, I'm glad I'm single!

But nothing did happen!  Bitcoin is exactly the same as it was last week 

So how far will the price keep wilting?  This slow decline feels worse than the rapid New Year plummet!

I wish I'd sold a couple of days ago tbh... it seems foolish to sell when the price is this low though so I still have my bitcoins.

Of course, it's only foolish if the price will eventually recover.  If it doesn't then holding on to them is foolish. 

I honestly don't understand what the squabblers think they're achieving by crashing the price like this!

I've held back from trying to discuss my concerns here because I know I'll only get accused of spreading FUD but, since I do have skin in the game too, I'm going to post anyway.

The way I see it, Bitcoin Core vs. Unlimited isn't the problem, the prospect of a hardfork isn't the problem.  The problem is the total inability for Bitcoin to reach any sort of consensus.  I think many of us now are past giving a fuck about how the blocksize issue is resolved.  Double the blocksize or halve it, implement some wizardry or tell the microtransactions to sod off and use alts instead, it really doesn't matter.  What matters is that it is resolved one way or another.  The lack of governance is the real problem, only compounded by the refusal of so many to even acknowledge that there is a problem at all.

As others have said here before me, what makes this crash so difficult to stomach isn't the falling price.  We've all seen bitcoin win all sorts of challenges before.  What makes this one so disturbing is that the threat is on the inside, bitcoin's lack of governance, lack of ability to say "this is a problem and this is how we're going to fix it" is actually tearing it apart from the inside.  I'd rather see bitcoin drop to $200 because of China or the US government than to $900 because of infighting.  At least then I'd have some confidence that it would come through, but Bitcoin can only win through if it's in good fighting form and right now it isn't.

At risk of incurring the wrath of the Bad Analogy Police, Bitcoin right now reminds me of Ellen Ripley.  She could fight off any predator and overcome any threat until the threat came from within her own body.  Then she was forced to destroy herself before it destroyed her.

Yes, she was resurrected stronger and cooler for the fourth movie but that took many years and many failed attempts, and even when they succeeded in bringing her back to life she was fundamentally different as a result of incorporating the alien DNA into her own 


tl;dr: we just need a solution, any solution, but that does mean first accepting that there's a problem in the first place.

Come on, that basketball scene more than redeems the rest of the movie 

I haven't been following for the last week or so so I'm pleased to see the price is back up to nearly where it was even if it can't make up its mind which way it's going from here.   So what happened with the fork?  Has it been called off or has the return to four figures just shifted the issue onto the back burner?

My thoughts too but better expressed. I can't get excited about this price increase, I'm just waiting for the plop.

Is it possible that we've just emerged from the handle of that great huge cup formation?

Is the rally over now?  Was that it?  Is Bitcoin dead?? 

Wow, what an evil genius you are, Searing!  Can I be your white cat? 

Not me!  I'm a HODLer, and I've never had a "decent stash" 

Speaking of those who hodled through the grim years of 2014/2015, I just want to say I'm in awe of you guys, your patience, your endurance and your vision.  I hope you're all rich now, you bloody deserve to be!!

I will sell up to two bitcoins to pay off my mortgage when the price gets that high  

Preferably i'd only need one and a half 

LOL good point well made!

Looks like this is the dip guys!!!

Bitcoin's done now.  Move along folks, nothing to see here.

 

Looks like Bitcoin is dead again...

$2000 Bitstamp!!  Congratulations everybody!!!!!

1800 euros hit on Kraken!

Maybe that's why the price of bitcoin is going up - so that people can afford the fees! 

Any news on this "agreement" thingy yet?  Where's it being announced?

Ouch, that doesn't look good!  There's no confirmed announcement yet though, is there?  Just speculation based on a "leak" which may or may not be accurate?

I was watching Kraken at that time.  I was waiting in a queue for two hours and had very little to do except keep refreshing all my coin charts, including the Kraken app.  I did not see that price reached or any unusual fluctuations in the price.  I do not believe it was real, or if it was it must have been so momentary that no other prices were hit in between.  A fat-fingered buyer perhaps?  Someone who thought they were trading USD instead of EUR??

You think toknormal is a bitcoin fanatic attacking alts??  

He's right though.  Bitcoin is the original and all it has to do is keeping on being the original.  It's in the privileged position that it really doesn't have to innovate, it just has to be, and ideally stop the infighting.

Bitcoin cannot be all things to all people and that's where other coins can blossom.

I'd be more inclined to take it as a bullish sign that people seem to be stocking up their exchange accounts with fiat in anticipation of the weekend. It might not say anything about Monday.

Wow I'd missed this!!  That's the dream!

It's an impressive bounce but I think we'll be going down again before 1st August...

October 1st  

The current ATH in USD is $2980, right?  Just over $100 away...

I think the EUR ATH is just over €2600 (€2618?), about €170 away.  Soon, I think, very soon.... and my bet is going to be miles out  

Those figures don't make much sense with the current USD/EUR exchange rate, I think it must have changed a bit since the old ATH  

Thanks, that explains it!

Maybe that's why the price of Bitcoin has increased so much over the last few days... all the exchanges are buying up coins from one another to replace their shortfalls before they get found out  

Please let me know when this thread gets back to discussing Bitcoin again...

And that won't lead to monero attracting special attention from the FBI and having its fiat gateways tightly controlled and resources ploughed into cracking the cryptography that will eventually expose the whole monero blackchain..... 

Bitcoin is absolutely right to have a transparent blockchain, it just lacks the optionally private transactions that Dash has mastered with PrivateSend.  Obfuscate the transactions, not the whole damn blockchain.  Ah well, people will learn.

Does anyone know Kraken's policy in the event of a coin split?  Have they announced one?

Long-running UK game show called Countdown, the final round is called the Conundrum where contestants race each other to solve a nine-letter anagram.  However, with an anagram like "large baps", I suggest that if this isn't a complete fake it must be from the piss-take spin-off show "8 out of 10 cats do Countdown" 

LOL I must have missed that!    They have had some funny one come up over the years!

Yep Bitcoin  crashing now.  It was good while it lasted.  If anybody here still cares... 

Well it is Thailand!  Have fun 

Yeah, if this Brexit bollocks doesn't go away I think I'll be surrendering my UK passport for a Spanish one.

Is the 500.000€ property purchase thing for all non-Europeans @bitserve?

Which part of being ruled solely by a corrupt and incompetent government that's set on doing away with human rights in a move that's going to destroy trade relations and prevent free movement of its own citizens do you consider "decentralization"?  

Is a Bitcoin miner mining alone in a prison cell with a brutal prison guard, on a processor taken from a Commodore 64 and with no internet connection a more decentralized solution than the whole rest of the Bitcoin network?

Oh I'm sorry, I hadn't realised from your flippant remark that you were interested in discussing Brexit. That's why I used an analogy to get my points across quicker about why Brexit is a complete clusterfuck. My analogy may not have been perfect but that isn't the same as a straw man, neither does it invalidate my points. It's a very worrying time for those of us who live in Europe since our whole future is on the line and the UK has so far refused to collaborate with the EU to guarantee our rights in our now home countries.

Decentralisation might be good when it comes to money but when it comes to countries leaving the EU, that's actually more like auto-isolation, severing ties with the outside world. And no less centralised because the UK will now be ruled by one bastard government that cannot be trusted, instead of having the other 27 countries of the EU to moderate.

Unfortunately many British voters on 23rd June last year just cried "Yay, independence!  Sovereignty!" And yes some probably also cried "Yay, decentralisation!" Without thinking through the implications and consequences. And that's how we're in this mess in the first place.

Spot on @kurious!

And Brexit is not an example of "undoing central governments".  Maybe some people voted for it thinking it was but it isn't.  It's just swapping one government for another even more centralized government.  And in doing so the UK is going to be left in ruins.  Many Leave voters now realise that they were lied to and manipulated (rendering the Brexiteers' meme that "the People have spoken" completely meaningless) but I don't think anybody can yet conceive of how disastrous this is going to be.

Ah well, collapsing economies are good for crypto!

Only if you think the individual can have any impact at all.  In reality, the disassociation from the EU and in particular the cessation of the bill of human rights and the jurisdiction of the ECJ means that the fascist tory government running the UK will now be free to be as draconian as they like with nobody and no body able to intervene.  The British voters will have the opportunity to change the government at the next general election, yes, but they've already shown that their judgement is flawed and I personally won't be eligible to vote in the next UK general election anyway.  I'm waiting to see what happens and how my rights are affected by the negotiations, but there's a good chance I'll be changing my nationality in order to protect my own rights.

Come on then, all of you who are so quick to condemn me for my opinions, please explain why Brexit is a good thing or how politicians manipulating voters with lies is a shining example of democracy in action?  Do any of you really understand what has happened here?  Oh who gives a fuck.  Think what you want of me.   I only mentioned it in passing in the first place and somehow got jumped on.  Brits have been arguing this topic the length of the country for the past 18 months, there's no way I'm going to find an intelligent opposition on a Bitcoin forum.

I certainly can't disagree that it's a politically constructed sideshow.  The problem is that it's the ordinary people that will pay the price, through loss of business, loss of jobs, loss of rights, a collapsed economy and high inflation...



The EU has serious problems, I never said it was perfect!  It won't be the bureaucrats in Brussels losing their jobs because of Brexit though, it will be ordinary hard-working people losing their jobs when the businesses they work for relocate to other countries in order to avoid trading tariffs and restrictions.



I never said that.  Just because I say that voters made a bad choice, strongly influenced by lies, on a decision that they were not qualified to make in the first place, does not mean that I wouldn't defend their right to make that choice.

No you're not "trying to be patient".  You keep dismissing my points with sweeping high-level statements on the concept without even trying to present an opposing view.

I don't know which country you're from but in most EU countries the citizens have at least a basic understanding of how the EU works and the benefits they get from it.  In the UK the public never received that education.  Successive UK governments have demonized the EU and blamed EU regulations as a scapegoat for their own incompetencies.  For example, the UK government has always allowed completely uncontrolled, unmonitored immigration and blamed it on the EU.  Most of the British people I have spoken to about this have no idea that EU countries are perfectly within their rights to require EU immigrants to register and to prove that they have the financial resources to live there without becoming a burden on the state.  As a result there's a common perception among the British public that EU immigrants are freeloaders and that the EU won't let the UK do anything about it.

Another example: take Cornwall which voted overwhelmingly to leave.  A couple of days after the referendum they realised that their local economy is highly dependent on EU subsidies.

Then there are all the people who voted to leave because of the slogan on the bus that claimed the money saved from leaving the EU would provide an extra £350 million per week for the NHS.  That was a complete lie but it probably won the referendum.

And if you've followed this at all you'll have seen the people posting on the internet at the time that they wanted to leave the EU because there were too many muslims in Britain.  Umm... how many muslim countries are there in the EU??

A person cannot make an informed decision on a subject they don't know enough about.  And centralization issues aside, the UK democratic system is one of parliamentary representative democracy.  That means the voting public don't normally get a direct say in political decisions.  Rather they elect MPs to represent their interests in decision-making.  The public don't need to understand the consequences of every political decision because it's the job of their elected MP to have all that knowledge and understanding and to vote in the best interests of their constituency accordingly.  The EU referendum was highly irregular in that respect alone, and when it was called I hoped that both sides would use their campaigns to provide facts and inform the people so that they would be equipped to make that decision when the day came.  They didn't.  The Leave campaigners put on a big circus of very well-presented lies and the Remain campaign took their assumed win so much for granted that they did nothing but repeat the same line of fear propaganda that leaving the EU would be "a leap into the unknown".  They couldn't even be bothered to explain why.

My friends and I spent a lot of time in the weeks before the referendum researching the facts and trying to understand the consequences of both outcomes, but solid information was just not available.  Call this elitist if you like, but if we who wanted to arm ourselves with as much accurate information as possible had difficulty finding it, there will be swathes of people who went into those polling booths with only their emotions and the lies they had been fed.

LOL thank you for confirming that you have zero understanding of... well, pretty much everything really 

Thank you d_eddie, that's very well put.

Wow, you're an angry, repulsive little man, aren't you?  As soon as some kid on an internet forum starts insulting tits to make a point I know he's just resorting to hatred out of frustration that he can't get laid.  This is why you're spewing bile instead of actually arguing with any points that I've made.



Too late, you've won me over with your detailed, well-constructed logical argument:


I can't possibly argue with that.  No, seriously, I can't.


I hope you trolls have enjoyed your fun today.  Insulting strangers online is a great way to brighten up your sad little lives for a few hours, I'm sure.  I recommend you find ways to deal with your problems though, because there are a whole load more problems waiting for you in adulthood.

Some will be gold-diggers for sure.  But some will be tired of younger men who haven't yet really grown up.  With an older man you know he's fed up of the shit too.  There's a good chance he's figured out that he isn't immortal and that chasing the skirt with the sexiest legs isn't going to bring long-term fulfilment.  Older men have generally learned to appreciate intelligent, independent women that they can actually hold a conversation with and they've figured out that the sexy bombshells tend to have no more to offer than their looks.

And some women just find bald men sexy 

Just sayin' 

*swoon*